How much will age affect the Hc?

twinytwo

After Quinlans performance it got me thinking about the effects of age. We see john hayes is in trouble but Wallace plays like he is still 20.

Taking the munster and northampton team that played friday night...

Munster
Du preez- 27
Fogerty - 27
Hayes- 36
O Callaghan- 31
O Connell-30
Wallace-33
Quinlan- 36
Ronan- 27
Tol-26
Rog- 33
DeVillers=28
Earls-22
Howlett 31
Dowling-27
Warrick-29


Flannery-31
Horan- 32

average age = 29.5
average age with flannery and horan in for Du Preez and Fogarty = 30.1

Northampton
Foden- 24
Ashton -22
Clarke- 26
Downey - 28
Reihana-33
Geraghty-23
Dickson-24
Wilson-28
Dowson-28
Lawes - 28
Kruger-24
Fernandez -35
Murray-29
Hartley-23
Tonga'uiha.- 28

Average age = 26.8

We know munster won but they arnt getting any younger.
I always believe that experience trumps age...Will age take its toll in the weeks to come?

Even looking at some of the other teams....
Ospreys the average age is 26.9
Leinster the average age is 28.3 and with fitz back its 27.7
Toulouse the average age is 29.

Riskymove

twinytwo wrote: »

average age = 29.5


We know munster won but they arnt getting any younger.
I always believe that experience trumps age...Will age take its toll in the weeks to come?

Even looking at some of the other teams....
Ospreys the average age is 26.9
Leinster the average age is 28.3 and with fitz back its 27.7
Toulouse the average age is 29.

so the average age on the Munster team was 29.5
Leinster 28.3
Toulouse 29

whats the difference really? is it that significant?

they kept going about how Munster had only one player under 25..I mean 25 not 35 FFS

you'd think other teams had a squad of teenagers!

btw you are also comparing 17 players with 15 players

AdeT

twinytwo wrote: »

After Quinlans performance it got me thinking about the effects of age. We see john hayes is in trouble but Wallace plays like he is still 20.

Taking the munster and northampton team that played friday night...

Munster
Du preez- 27
Fogerty - 27
Hayes- 36
O Callaghan- 31
O Connell-30
Wallace-33
Quinlan- 36
Ronan- 27
Tol-26
Rog- 33
DeVillers=28
Earls-22
Howlett 31
Dowling-27
Warrick-29
Flannery-31
Horan- 32

average age = 29.5
average age with flan and horan = 30.1

Northampton
Foden- 24
Ashton -22
Clarke- 26
Downey - 28
Reihana-33
Geraghty-23
Dickson-24
Wilson-28
Dowson-28
Lawes - 28
Kruger-24
Fernandez -35
Murray-29
Hartley-23
Tonga'uiha.- 28

Average age = 26.8

We know munster won but they arnt getting any younger.
I always believe that experience trumps age...Will age take its toll in the weeks to come?

Even looking at some of the other teams....
Ospreys the average age is 26.9
Leinster the average age is 28.3 and with fitz back its 27.7
Toulouse the average age is 29.

I think you have a couple of those ages incorrect... Lawes is only 20. Fogarty 26.

Anyway, I don't think age is a huge issue, unless the players are managing injuries. Madically they'll be well looked after and their time will be managed very precisely in training.

twinytwo

Riskymove wrote: »

so the average age on the Munster team was 29.5
Leinster 28.3
Toulouse 29

whats the difference really? is it that significant?

they kept going about how Munster had only one player under 25..I mean 25 not 35 FFS

you'd think other teams had a squad of teenagers!

btw you are also comparing 17 players with 15 players

i have the average age of the starting 15 plus that of the team with horan and flannery in for du preez and fogerty... sorry if its not clear bit of a rush job... i think age has to come into it most of the pack will play all of the 6 nations the rest of the magners league etc then have to finish off the HC assuming they make it to the final. For example sexton could keep going at a higher level for longer than o gara because he has age on his side he recovers more quickly etc that just the way it is.

TheGod

Riskymove wrote: »

so the average age on the Munster team was 29.5
Leinster 28.3
Toulouse 29

whats the difference really? is it that significant?

they kept going about how Munster had only one player under 25..I mean 25 not 35 FFS

you'd think other teams had a squad of teenagers!

btw you are also comparing 17 players with 15 players

Kearney - 23
Horgan - 31
O'Driscoll - 31
D'arcy - 29
Fitzgerald - 22
Sexton - 24
Reddan - 29
Heaslip - 24
Jennings - 28
McLaughlin - 23
Hines - 33
Cullen - 32
CJ - 29 (assume he'll be first choice once fully fit)
Fogarty - 32
Healy - 22

Average age = 27

Munster
1.Horan - 32
2.Flannery - 31
3.Hayes - 36
4.O'Callaghan - 30
5.O'Connell - 31
6.Quinlan - 35
7.Wallace - 33
8.Leamy - 28
9. O'Leary - 26
10. O'Gara - 33
11. Dowling - 27
12.De Villiers - 28
13. Earls - 22
14.Howlett - 31
15.Warwick - 30

Average age 30.




3 year difference between both sides first 15s. Big difference.


When you look at it Munster have only one young player playing for them, Earls. Leinster meanwhile have Kearney, Fitzgerald, Healy, Sexton, Heaslip, McLaughlin. I also could of slotted O'Brien in at 7 as I reckon he'll be first choice from now on but for the purpose of reasonable debate I won't.

Riskymove

twinytwo wrote: »

.. i think age has to come into it most of the pack will play all of the 6 nations the rest of the magners league etc then have to finish off the HC assuming they make it to the final. For example sexton could keep going at a higher level for longer than o gara because he has age on his side he recovers more quickly etc that just the way it is.

thats different, you are talking about individuals there not the average age

I personally think an average age in the high 20s is probably the norm, you dont see too many kids playing top level rugby

yes we have a couple of elder statesmen and the issue about the Bull and no replacement is there....however Quinlan wont be playing international and ROG/Sexton may well be rotated a good bit over 6N...similarly I doubt too many will be risked in magners when HEC is on.

however, I would also say that age does not affect rugby players as much as say soccer, especially forwards, there are/have been plenty of older guys around at the top level

Paul Smeenus

TheGod wrote: »

Heaslip - 24
QUOTE]

Heaslip's 26. Don't know about the accuracy of the rest, but people tend to overestimate how young Heaslip is.

Ferris is 24, maybe that causes the confusion.

buck65

Munster are an aging side, no doubt and since last season are in slight decline. This is a major issue at HCup level for next season.

TheGod

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Heaslip's 26. Don't know about the accuracy of the rest, but people tend to overestimate how young Heaslip is.

Ferris is 24, maybe that causes the confusion.

Ah just turned 26, though that still has no outcome on the average age, its still 27 for Leinster.

Podge_irl

I don't think the average age is so much of a problem for Munster. The problem is who exactly is bringing the average age up.

1.Horan - 32
2.Flannery - 31
3.Hayes - 36
4.O'Callaghan - 30
5.O'Connell - 31
6.Quinlan - 35
7.Wallace - 33
10. O'Gara - 33

I think the back and front rows are especially a problem. Quinlan and Hayes are starting to show their age and there is no sign of an obvious replacement.

In contrast with Leinster, Cullen and Hines are not quite as integral to the team (though are obviously damn fine players). The only irreplaceable player who is on the wrong side of 30 is O'Driscoll really.

buck65

If Hayes and Quinlan retire the average age of Munster will drop down to ...plus, minus 37 pi, x (p-45) 66775543-567 where b= 45332211.9
I'm getting 21. Did anyone else get that answer?

bamboozle

i reackon Munster need to make a few shrewd signings this summer, Tommy Bowe,Neil Best and Cronin singing on elsewhere are opportunities lost for Munster.
They really need 2 props and at least 1 backrower. No doubt Williams will be gone end of this season so it'll be interesting to see who they could get to replace him 1 year before a world cup.
i'd say Mike Ross will be targeted also

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

The only irreplaceable player who is on the wrong side of 30 is O'Driscoll really.

I should point out that the current Leinster team is almost entirely different from the one Cheika inherited. Horgan, D'Arcy and O'Driscoll are basically the only remnants. That's why the team is, on a whole, younger. But it took years before Leinster were properly competitive and wasn't exactly an easy task. Munster are looking at entering a similar phase unless obvious replacement players start popping up very soon and are eased in ASAP.

twinytwo

apart from earls there is not much young talent coming through... and while i hate to say it no team can stay at the top forever but i dont want to see them slip down the ladder.

big dan

Don't think that age is a huge factor as long as you have a good bench and good strenght in dept.

With no obvious replacement for Hayes, unless you count Buckley, Munster will have to make a big signing soon.

BoarHunter

And think about the World cup in 2011. How fit these players will be then ?

when i see there is a debate on Sexton vs O'gara, i would definitly prepare Sexton for the WC and this as soon as this 6N campain

TheGod

I was just thinking, why don't Munster try sign some of Leinster's academy for next season?

for front row they could sign Jack McGrath and for back row they could go for Dominic Ryan and Ciaran Ruddock.

Then over the next 2 seasons ease them into the first team as the likes of Hayes and Quinlan retire.

buck65

BoarHunter wrote: »

And think about the World cup in 2011. How fit these players will be then ?

when i see there is a debate on Sexton vs O'gara, i would definitly prepare Sexton for the WC and this as soon as this 6N campain

Sexton for O Gara eh...what a novel idea, this probably deserves a thread or even a poll for itself:D

The RWC2011 is 2 years too late for this Irish team.

Amazotheamazing

TheGod wrote: »

I was just thinking, why don't Munster try sign some of Leinster's academy for next season?

for front row they could sign Jack McGrath and for back row they could go for Dominic Ryan and Ciaran Ruddock.

Then over the next 2 seasons ease them into the first team as the likes of Hayes and Quinlan retire.

I don't think we really need McGrath, he's not much better (if at all) than the young props we have, but I suspect we'll try and grab one of the backrowers alright.

TheGod

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I don't think we really need McGrath, he's not much better (if at all) than the young props we have, but I suspect we'll try and grab one of the backrowers alright.

Hes been first choice for every Ireland underage game from schools all the way up to U20s level. Hes the best young prop in the country, who do you have better because hes certainly not Irish anyway? Leinster let Hagan and Burke-Flynn go because they believe that McGrath will be a huge player in 1-2 seasons.

I reckon Conway and Macken are other options Munster should look at. Neither will be getting gametime for Leinter any time soon with Kearney and O'Driscoll ahead of them.

Podge_irl

TheGod wrote: »

I reckon Conway and Macken are other options Munster should look at. Neither will be getting gametime for Leinter any time soon with Kearney and O'Driscoll ahead of them.

Actually Conway (Macken? whichever is the centre) is probably in a good position in Leinster given his age. He'd be ripe to take over from O'Driscoll. Munster could do a hell of a lot worse than look at McFadden - though that would be assuming they don't see Earls as a 13 which they seem to for the time being. McFadden is probably two years too old for his own good as he's an excellent centre but he's never going to shift BOD.

Backs really aren't Munster's main problem at the moment age wise though.

Amazotheamazing

TheGod wrote: »

Hes been first choice for every Ireland underage game from schools all the way up to U20s level. Hes the best young prop in the country, who do you have better because hes certainly not Irish anyway? Leinster let Hagan and Burke-Flynn go because they believe that McGrath will be a huge player in 1-2 seasons.

I reckon Conway and Macken are other options Munster should look at. Neither will be getting gametime for Leinter any time soon with Kearney and O'Driscoll ahead of them.

The Munster A front row of Kilcoyne, Sherry and Archer handled Leinster A's front row easily this year. Kilcoyne at loosehead shut McGrath at tighthead out of it, iirc. Archer is getting games for Con, pretty decent level.

McGrath's a good player, but he's not worth poaching, imo.

TheGod

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The Munster A front row of Kilcoyne, Sherry and Archer handled Leinster A's front row easily this year. Kilcoyne at loosehead shut McGrath at tighthead out of it, iirc. Archer is getting games for Con, pretty decent level.

McGrath's a good player, but he's not worth poaching, imo.

I was at that game actually. Unfortuantely McGrath wasn't the problem it was the loosehead who was substituted and after the scrum stabilized.

As far as I know McGrath is starting for St.Marys who are currently top of the AIL when hes not starting for Leinster A.

Amazotheamazing

TheGod wrote: »

I was at that game actually. Unfortuantely McGrath wasn't the problem it was the loosehead who was substituted and after the scrum stabilized.

As far as I know McGrath is starting for St.Marys who are currently top of the AIL when hes not starting for Leinster A.

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to say he was worth poaching ahead of Archer, he wasn't a stand out player on the day.

Not to say he's not a good talent, but I'd take Rhys Ruddock in a heartbeat before I'd even look at props.

profitius

The age doesn't matter but its the mileage on the clock thats mostly important. Irish players can last a season or 2 longer then English because of playing less games however the age is still important. Hayes is getting on a bit now and so is Wallace and Quinlan. They're still good players but maybe 10% less effect then they were 2 years ago. In a game of inches that can make a difference.


Munster have young props coming through so they won't be looking for any others. They'll either get an experianced prop from outside or none at all. No point gambling on a young unproven prop like McGrath. You could argue that prop is the hardest position to judge how good young players will become.


Dave Ryan, Darragh Hurley and Archer all have potential to be good players. Hurley and Ryan have been injured this season and Archer is just 21. Theres a few others there too.


Tommy O'Donnell, Eoin Grace, Peter O'Mahony, Billy Holland are all backrows on the fringes of the Munster squad so it'll be interesting to see who makes it. Dave O'Callaghan and Paddy Butler is another to look out for but he's not even 20 yet.


Theres no way they'll poach Macken or Conway. They're rated highly and probably future internationals. Macken looked class from the little I have seen of him so Leinster will want to keep onto them. Maybe they could poach a young Leinster backrower but who would be good enough?

TheGod

profitius wrote: »

Munster have young props coming through so they won't be looking for any others. They'll either get an experianced prop from outside or none at all. No point gambling on a young unproven prop like McGrath. You could argue that prop is the hardest position to judge how good young players will become.

Hard to judge but they've shown him enough faith to let Jamie Hagan and Royce Burke Flynn go. McGrath was actually getting game time ahead of the two for Leinster A though I believe Leinster are very cautious with him due to his age. He was mean't to be in the 22 and possibly starting against Dragons (when Leinster played a few of their academy prospects) but due to wet conditions Leinster opted to not play him (a bit overly cautious if you ask me)
When Fiji came over for the AIs they were training at Leinster grounds and Leinster A were asked if they could scrummage against them. Heard from a source who works for Leinster that McGrath more than held his own and even wheeled their scrum despite being just 20 at the time. Even reading AIL match reports in the papers or hearing of Leinster A games he always seems to get a good review. and that says something, seeing as its so hard for a prop to stand out.
I've seen him play for both Leinster A and St.Mary's in the AIL and for 20 years old the kid has an unnatural ability in the scrum.

Maybe they could poach a young Leinster backrower but who would be good enough?

I reckon any team would happily take Dominic Ryan or Ruddock.

PhatPiggins

Just Rhys please you can hang on to Ciaran

d-gal

profitius wrote: »

Tommy O'Donnell, Eoin Grace, Peter O'Mahony, Billy Holland are all backrows on the fringes of the Munster squad so it'll be interesting to see who makes it. Dave O'Callaghan and Paddy Butler is another to look out for but he's not even 20 yet.

Holland - 24
O'Donnell -22
Grace - 22
O'Mahony - 20
O'Callaghan - 20 (just turned 20 2 weeks ago)

Don't think Munster would even dream of taking a backrow off Leinster. Think they have plenty of cover. Have been impressed with all 5 of these guys everytime I see them play.
Holland has played more mayches than Williams and O'Donnell has played the same amount so I would guess McGahan has plans for these two

As for backs the only good prospect i can see is Deasy, regularly on the scoresheet. Danny barnes is way to small - 5'4 FFS!

chupacabra

Age is just a number. People make too much of it.

TheGod

chupacabra wrote: »

Age is just a number. People make too much of it.

I agree. Anyone know why hasn't Geoghan made any Irish squads recently?

Profiler

TheGod wrote: »

Anyone know why hasn't Geoghan made any Irish squads recently?

Retired with a toe injury... that and politics...

thehighground

chupacabra wrote: »

Age is just a number. People make too much of it.

Couldn't agree more. Gerry Thornley picked out Alan Quinlan as the one with the best performance last weekend. (Darcy, Doug Howlett* & Trimble got a mention).

*another one looking at his pension.

sock puppet

chupacabra wrote: »

Age is just a number. People make too much of it.

They don't really. An athlete can only perform for so many years at the top. It's not just to do with age. There are plenty of olympic athletes who have taken career breaks and gone on to compete professionally again at quite an old age. But most people don't take career breaks.

anonymous_joe

TheGod wrote: »

I agree. Anyone know why hasn't Geoghan made any Irish squads recently?

Profiler wrote: »

Retired with a toe injury... that and politics...

I was about to say that. :pac:

My two cents would be this:

Age is not a factor in terms of selection. However, ageing and experience are two of the most crucial factors deciding a player's selection chances.

Take Quinlan - great player, I'll freely admit that (I might not like him, but fcuking hell he's effective.)

Anyway, he's also old. So while he knows pretty much every trick and so on, he is getting slower, weaker and also, crucially, less consistent. As you get older, recovery times increase. He can't keep as much muscle, as much speed, etc, as in his youth.

O'Driscoll - experience married to his natural gifts make him the best 13 in the world. But he's clearly slowed down in contrast to his youth. Now then, he's not going to be dropped because he's not as fast, but as more and more time passes, his attacking effectiveness will drop.

In terms of the general Heineken Cup, most of the Irish teams can usually keep their starts mothballed until needed due to the nature of the Magners League. As such, age will effect Munster and Leinster much less than a Leicester or a Northampton.

Amazotheamazing

d-gal wrote: »

As for backs the only good prospect i can see is Deasy, regularly on the scoresheet. Danny barnes is way to small - 5'4 FFS!

Barnes is small, but he's also good, was class in the preseason games and has been doing well with the A team. A player who might be too small is Andrew Burke, very talented but very small, though when I met Ian Humphs and Paddy Wallace I was amazed by how tiny they are so you never know.

profitius

d-gal wrote: »

Holland - 24
O'Donnell -22
Grace - 22
O'Mahony - 20
O'Callaghan - 20 (just turned 20 2 weeks ago)

Don't think Munster would even dream of taking a backrow off Leinster. Think they have plenty of cover. Have been impressed with all 5 of these guys everytime I see them play.
Holland has played more mayches than Williams and O'Donnell has played the same amount so I would guess McGahan has plans for these two

As for backs the only good prospect i can see is Deasy, regularly on the scoresheet. Danny barnes is way to small - 5'4 FFS!

Yeah, they've plenty of backrow options.


I heard the 5'4 height that Barnes is supposed to be before but somebody said he's alot taller then that. I can't see how Munster would pick somebody that small.

anonymous_joe

profitius wrote: »

Yeah, they've plenty of backrow options.


I heard the 5'4 height that Barnes is supposed to be before but somebody said he's alot taller then that. I can't see how Munster would pick somebody that small.

Isn't Leo Messi taller than that?

Amazotheamazing

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Isn't Leo Messi taller than that?

Barnes is playing for Dolphin in the AIL, whatever his size he can take care of himself. Think there's one or two of his preseason tries on the munster rugby site if people actually want to see him for themselves.

anonymous_joe

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Barnes is playing for Dolphin in the AIL, whatever his size he can take care of himself. Think there's one or two of his preseason tries on the munster rugby site if people actually want to see him for themselves.

Anyone whose in and around a provincial squad can take care of themselves.

But let's face it, Munster v Leicester, Barnes at 9 (I think?), Tuilagi picks up the ball... And so on.

Amazotheamazing

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Anyone whose in and around a provincial squad can take care of themselves.

But let's face it, Munster v Leicester, Barnes at 9 (I think?), Tuilagi picks up the ball... And so on.

I can't check the videos at the minute, but Barnes is a centre or winger, he's not a scrumhalf so I don't know why he'd be playing there, and tbf, getting steamrolled by Tuilagi happens a lot of players.

I'm not saying he's going to make it as a pro or anything, but judge him on how he plays, not his stats.

Btw, Burke played outhalf against Leicester in the preseason, he's a very slight guy, could you be thinking of him?

2040

Yeah, Barnes is a winger. I remember reading, on the Munster site, that he was 5'4" but i don't think that statistic is correct. I was at the preseason games and he didn't strike me as being particularly small then.

profitius

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Isn't Leo Messi taller than that?

You can't compare rugby to soccer. Interestingly Messi would be smaller only for he was given growth hormones when younger by Barcelona to make him grow more. For me hes the best soccer player in the world.


I think Barnes is 5'10

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Anyway, he's [Quinlan] also old. So while he knows pretty much every trick and so on, he is getting slower, weaker and also, crucially, less consistent. As you get older, recovery times increase. He can't keep as much muscle, as much speed, etc, as in his youth.

You forgot to acknowlege that Quinlan is actually a very good footballer.
Anyway, none of those things that you mention were apparent in Quinlan's game last Friday. Great tackle on Ashton on the wing (try scoring), fielded highballs that would make Kearney envious, locked the scrum when POC was off. All at the ripe old age of 36. At that rate of going, POC, DOC, Flannery, have another 6 years in it. I thought Leinster improved (started winning more possession) when Mal came on against LI and he must be 35/36 now.

Anyway, young Lawes didn't get a look in with Quinlan last week!

sock puppet

thehighground wrote: »

You forgot to acknowlege that Quinlan is actually a very good footballer.
Anyway, none of those things that you mention were apparent in Quinlan's game last Friday. Great tackle on Ashton on the wing (try scoring), fielded highballs that would make Kearney envious, locked the scrum when POC was off. All at the ripe old age of 36. At that rate of going, POC, DOC, Flannery, have another 6 years in it. I thought Leinster improved (started winning more possession) when Mal came on against LI and he must be 35/36 now.

Anyway, young Lawes didn't get a look in with Quinlan last week!

O'Connell, O'Callaghan and Flannery have played a lot more international rugby than Quinlan. I really, really doubt if any of them will get to 36 before retiring.

thehighground

sock puppet wrote: »

O'Connell, O'Callaghan and Flannery have played a lot more international rugby than Quinlan. I really, really doubt if any of them will get to 36 before retiring.

Mal O'Kelly has 90+ caps and he did make a difference when he came on against LI. I'd also think the likes of POC, DOC etc. are looked after much better than Quinlan's generation. btw, Flannery doesn't have a huge amount of milage on the clock with only 30 caps so far (he didn't get his first cap until he was about 26). David Wallace would be the same - he has 55 caps.

Point is anyway a lot can happen in 3/4 years - so I just wouldn't write off Munster just yet.

TheGod

thehighground wrote: »

You forgot to acknowlege that Quinlan is actually a very good footballer.
Anyway, none of those things that you mention were apparent in Quinlan's game last Friday. Great tackle on Ashton on the wing (try scoring), fielded highballs that would make Kearney envious, locked the scrum when POC was off. All at the ripe old age of 36. At that rate of going, POC, DOC, Flannery, have another 6 years in it. I thought Leinster improved (started winning more possession) when Mal came on against LI and he must be 35/36 now.

Anyway, young Lawes didn't get a look in with Quinlan last week!

Yeah I agree.. lets go against everything we scientifically know about the negatives of aging on sports performance on the basis of one individuals performance in one game!

2040

Simon Shaw.

toomevara

Less of the bitching guys. I'm getting a bit tired of the constant inter-personal niggling between certain users on here over the past few days. It's lowering the tone and if it continues folk are going to be given a break from the forum to restore a bit of sanity. You have been warned..

mink_man

age doesnt matter in in off matches like this

sock puppet

thehighground wrote: »

Mal O'Kelly has 90+ caps and he did make a difference when he came on against LI. I'd also think the likes of POC, DOC etc. are looked after much better than Quinlan's generation. btw, Flannery doesn't have a huge amount of milage on the clock with only 30 caps so far (he didn't get his first cap until he was about 26). David Wallace would be the same - he has 55 caps.

Point is anyway a lot can happen in 3/4 years - so I just wouldn't write off Munster just yet.

I don't remember him being all that good. Besides he's a bit part player now and was only called upon to play for a few minutes. I don't dispute that Quinlan can perform well but he's coming to the end of his career and no amount of skill or experience will change that. Didn't know Flannery had so few caps actually.

I wouldn't write off Munster either, as you say their players (bar Hayes and Quinlan) probably have another 3/4 years at the top in them.

anonymous_joe

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I can't check the videos at the minute, but Barnes is a centre or winger, he's not a scrumhalf so I don't know why he'd be playing there, and tbf, getting steamrolled by Tuilagi happens a lot of players.

I'm not saying he's going to make it as a pro or anything, but judge him on how he plays, not his stats.

Btw, Burke played outhalf against Leicester in the preseason, he's a very slight guy, could you be thinking of him?

Ah fair enough. I was confusing him with someone else obviously.

And the downside of someone that small is that I can't think of any major team now without at least one massive bugger in the backline to target them.

profitius wrote: »

You can't compare rugby to soccer. Interestingly Messi would be smaller only for he was given growth hormones when younger by Barcelona to make him grow more. For me hes the best soccer player in the world.


I think Barnes is 5'10

Ah I know, I was just trying to work out a comparable height.

thehighground wrote: »

You forgot to acknowlege that Quinlan is actually a very good footballer.
Anyway, none of those things that you mention were apparent in Quinlan's game last Friday. Great tackle on Ashton on the wing (try scoring), fielded highballs that would make Kearney envious, locked the scrum when POC was off. All at the ripe old age of 36. At that rate of going, POC, DOC, Flannery, have another 6 years in it. I thought Leinster improved (started winning more possession) when Mal came on against LI and he must be 35/36 now.

Anyway, young Lawes didn't get a look in with Quinlan last week!

Do I need to mention that Quinlan's good? He's been playing at a high level for god knows how long. I thought it'd be assumed.

Again, my point is that while Quinlan might be having a good season, he's also old. Players do get worse with age. It's just that simple.