Airliner over Dublin banking left and right 90º rolls??

Calibos

Anyone listening in to the Air traffic controllers frequency or anything like that from about 9:30pm onwards?

Just saw something very unusual. Our house is on Bray head facing the north over Killiney bay and Dublin Bay and Howth Head in the distance.

Saw a plane(Well its wing tip lights. Orange and white?) flying north east towards the sea over Shankill. Seemed to be quite low. Because it was dark it could have been a small plane closer or a larger airliner further away. If it was a small plane it flew over Bray, if it was an airliner it flew over Killiney/Dalkey. From my perspective the orange wingtip light on the left wing(looking from behind) was vertically aligned with the other wingtip light and trailing behind. In other words the plane was in level flight heading North east. All of a sudden over the sea it banked to the left(white wing tip light way above orange wingtip light) back towards dalkey head. It stayed banked fully and then quickly banked fully to the right on the other side over Dalkey Head. It was heading towards Howth Head. Its like it was flying in a straight line towards howth but not in level flight but permanently rolled/banked on its side. It then quickly banked the other way back towards inland and disappeared behind Howth head heading W or NW. Didn't seem to clear it by much.

I was observing with Binoculars. I would have said I was mistaking Tail fin and Tail lights for wingtip lights giving me a false impression of straight but 90º bank or Aircorp doing night time training or manouevers and thus the mad banking only for the fact that by the time it disappeared over Howth Head way across the Bay from Bray the separation between the white and orange running lights was still very large even at that great distance. ie. Hardly a small plane, Air Sea Rescue helo or Aircorp Pilataus(sp?) ie. To me that meant it was definately as big as an airliner. I know perspective can affect appearances especially at night but the direction of flight did not match a lower roll angle if you know what I mean. ie from my perspective one wingtip light would be high above the other if the plane was in a shallower angle roll traveling E->W or W->E but the plane was definately traveling away from me towards howth ie North and yet the wing tip lights where stacked far apart one over the other, which says to me that it was banked over on its side.

Some mad banking and manouevers if that was in fact the type of plane.

Original Steyr

Seems like you seen a PC9M.

Calibos

Does that have Orange and white wing tip lights?

I mean that was one of my first thoughts because it was banking and rolling to the degree one would image a single seat high performance plane and not what one would expecct to see an airliner doing, but it was the fact that the separation between lights was so great even as it flew over Howth head and disappeared behind. I was viewing through binoculars. If I mapped that separation distance down onto Howth head I thought we were talking Airliner wing lenghts rather than air corp PC9M single seater wing lengths.

Hopefully I can judge better in the morning. ie. compare the light separation I saw with a house on Howth head to give me a sense of scale.

pclancy

I would have thought everything has to have red/green wingtip and white tail lights, Mil or not though I know of "formation lights" on some mil aircraft.

Original Steyr

Well everything is judged differently at night and the twin seat PC9M's do have nav lights on both sides obviously but im thinking maybe you caught the nav lights and strobe at the same time?

Original Steyr

pclancy wrote: »

I would have thought everything has to have red/green wingtip and white tail lights, Mil or not though I know of "formation lights" on some mil aircraft.

Yup, i know some F-18's like ones in service with the Swiss Air Force have a white light just under the cockpit on the port side but this is for ID of other Aircraft, anything else i can think of is just the formation strip lights:

http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/vmhalme/hornet_finnaf/091hornet_finnaf.jpg

Finnish Hornet example of lights:

http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/vmhalme/hornet_finnaf/159hornet_finnaf.jpg

http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/vmhalme/hornet_finnaf/158hornet_finnaf.jpg

http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/vmhalme/hornet_finnaf/149hornet_finnaf.jpg

airvan

There are no orange lights carried on aircraft. Red on the left wing and green on the right. The tail light is white. The flashing beacon might be on the tailfin and would be red. Strobes are white and flash in a very obvious way. Given that you only saw red and white light then you were seeing the left wingtip and the tail and never saw the right wingtip. Therefore the violent banking you apparently saw was probably an optical illusion.

Also most pilots would avoid extreme banking manoevres at night even the military. The risk of spatial disorientation is great. Most likely they were simple turns which because of the arrangement of the lights looked more extreme than they were.

Calibos

It wasn't red and white. It was white and orange both of equal intensity. The reason I definately know its not faulty recall is that I remember at one point saying to myself, " This reminds me of the Space Shuttle and Fuel tank flyover back in august. Bright White light(shuttle) over bright Orange light(Shuttles jettisoned main fuel tank).

The lights did not flash. They were on continuously. It definately was flying E or EEN over Shankill, fly out over the sea and turned sharply back towards killiney, flew around Dalkey head/island, veered towards Dublin Port direction then banked to the right again towards the lighthouse at the end of Howth head then banked to the left again NW and disappeared over and behind Howth Head.

From when I saw it over Shankill to when it disappeared behind Howth head was literally 2 minutes. I think that rules out a Helicopter.

I am not ruling out that atmospherics (mist) made a red light look orange or that what I took as two wingtip lights was infact a tail light and a wing light affecting my perception and making it look like 90º roll banking manouvers.

I just find it strange that the orientation of the lights matched a bank in the correct direction for the direction of flight. ie Orange underneath White light when banking to the left and heading to the left and White light underneath orange light when banking to the right and heading right. I'd see the lights align vertically and then switch positions and sure enough one could see that the direction of travel had changed from left/right right/left

tricky D

Calibos wrote: »

The lights did not flash. They were on continuously. It definately was flying E or EEN over Shankill, fly out over the sea and turned sharply back towards killiney, flew around Dalkey head/island, veered towards Dublin Port direction then banked to the right again towards the lighthouse at the end of Howth head then banked to the left again NW and disappeared over and behind Howth Head.

This is strange as the airport was using 10 at the time, so it would have been ducking under the path of planes climbing which I've never seen. The only thing that I've seen travelling there under similar circumstances is the CG rescue helio and rarely at night.

airvan

Should have thought of this earlier. It's the Garda helicopter, check this out from live ATC. http://archive-server.liveatc.net/eidw/EIDW-Jan-26-2010-2130Z.mp3

About halfway into the recording 272 asks to fly northbound off the coast via Killiney at 300 or 400 feet. Fits with your sighting. Incidentally 251 is the Air Corps Gulfstream he would have been overhead inbound to Baldonnel runway 29 at the same time.

Normally 272 have very bright strobes. But in misty conditions they would be switched off to avoid blinding the pilots with reflections.

Mystery solved.

Original Steyr

Airvan welcome to Aviation And Aircraft.:)

Calibos

Cool, Thanks Airvan. So it was a matter of perspective with a bit of faulty recall thrown in that had me thinking I was looking at wingtip lights and large rolling banking manouvers. In retrospect I also suppose that Killiney to Howth in 2 minutes is well within the capabilties of a heli. Sure there might be some faulty recall there too! Maybe it was 3 or 4mins

BTW, I did ask in my first sentance, was anyone listening to ATC at that time

On a sidenote. I take it there was a northerly blowing on Wednesday night. Constant stream of airliners coming in low over Bray Head northbound on approach. Usually they come in from the east over Dublin Bay.

airvan

Actually calibos, if you listen to the recording you'll hear they change runway to 16 at some point.

Thanks original steyr, just came across this forum lately, was lurking for a while. This boards thing is massive. I also see we both live in Galway.

pclancy

It sure is massive! Welcome from me too Airvan.

Original Steyr

airvan wrote: »

Thanks original steyr, just came across this forum lately, was lurking for a while. This boards thing is massive. I also see we both live in Galway.

Good stuff.:)

Tiger333

Calibos wrote: »

Anyone listening in to the Air traffic controllers frequency or anything like that from about 9:30pm onwards?

Just saw something very unusual. Our house is on Bray head facing the north over Killiney bay and Dublin Bay and Howth Head in the distance.

Saw a plane(Well its wing tip lights. Orange and white?) flying north east towards the sea over Shankill. Seemed to be quite low. Because it was dark it could have been a small plane closer or a larger airliner further away. If it was a small plane it flew over Bray, if it was an airliner it flew over Killiney/Dalkey. From my perspective the orange wingtip light on the left wing(looking from behind) was vertically aligned with the other wingtip light and trailing behind. In other words the plane was in level flight heading North east. All of a sudden over the sea it banked to the left(white wing tip light way above orange wingtip light) back towards dalkey head. It stayed banked fully and then quickly banked fully to the right on the other side over Dalkey Head. It was heading towards Howth Head. Its like it was flying in a straight line towards howth but not in level flight but permanently rolled/banked on its side. It then quickly banked the other way back towards inland and disappeared behind Howth head heading W or NW. Didn't seem to clear it by much.

I was observing with Binoculars. I would have said I was mistaking Tail fin and Tail lights for wingtip lights giving me a false impression of straight but 90º bank or Aircorp doing night time training or manouevers and thus the mad banking only for the fact that by the time it disappeared over Howth Head way across the Bay from Bray the separation between the white and orange running lights was still very large even at that great distance. ie. Hardly a small plane, Air Sea Rescue helo or Aircorp Pilataus(sp?) ie. To me that meant it was definately as big as an airliner. I know perspective can affect appearances especially at night but the direction of flight did not match a lower roll angle if you know what I mean. ie from my perspective one wingtip light would be high above the other if the plane was in a shallower angle roll traveling E->W or W->E but the plane was definately traveling away from me towards howth ie North and yet the wing tip lights where stacked far apart one over the other, which says to me that it was banked over on its side.

Some mad banking and manouevers if that was in fact the type of plane.

I spotted this very low in sky at kilruddery southern cross road and followed it for 25 mins and took pics and video unfortunately poor quality. It hovered above ramada for 5 minutes again very low and there were 3 red lights flashing around the orange glow. It then moved off at speed towards bray head the glow turned to red and disappeared from sight. Waited there 30 minutes but nothing more . Cant explain this at all. Other car driver nissan primera also seen this. AM frequency also would not work properly at time listening to 5live!

airvan

AM radio never works properly:D That was the UFO the Garda helicopter was chasing. He went North the UFO south. That's how he missed it.

Tiger333

Well that may explain the garda activity at vevay both in car and on foot at same time
youu should also look on http://www.realufos.net/2010_01_24_archive.html

Original Steyr

Tiger333 welcome to Aviation and Aircraft.

Tiger333

Guys I'm no specialist on this subject but have been in Sutton following our glowing object again this time towards the airport. surely someone else is picking this up. my best advice is keep looking up there this is very strange. I posted the earlier link ad I googled the discription and this is far from isolated. If you take away the false posts etc it certainly appears there is a lot of similar activity going on in both east coast IRL and North Wales