My main drivinghabits are coasting and observation

mkingst

I can break the coasting habit but i need a guide to the mirrors. I have a friend who failed his test for too much observation. I found that to be a bit unfair but can someone tell me when i should look in my mirrors, blindspots etc? I know its common sense but there are some people who dont look at there mirrors properly and end up failing their test!

Wishbone Ash

mkingst wrote: »

I can break the coasting habit but i need a guide to the mirrors. I have a friend who failed his test for too much observation. I found that to be a bit unfair but can someone tell me when i should look in my mirrors, blindspots etc? I know its common sense but there are some people who dont look at there mirrors properly and end up failing their test!

Some people go through the motions of 'checking' mirrors but don't actually process what they see and therefore do not react appropriately to potential hazards.

There is a myth out there that you can't be over observant. You can and the examiner will note this. If you are spending too much time looking in mirrors, you are not observing the road ahead and to the sides..

DrivingTestTips: Brian

Hi mkingst

Look at the tutorials as they will help... www.drivingtesttips.ie/Irish-Driving-Test-Video-Tutorials.php

Please remember that you should use you mirrors when it is safe to do so and NOT every 10 - 15 seconds. Observe your surroundings.

J_R

mkingst wrote: »

I can break the coasting habit but i need a guide to the mirrors. I have a friend who failed his test for too much observation. I found that to be a bit unfair but can someone tell me when i should look in my mirrors, blindspots etc? I know its common sense but there are some people who dont look at there mirrors properly and end up failing their test!

Hi,

From the Rules of the Road

When to use mirrors: You must use your vehicle's mirrors before moving off, changing lanes, overtaking, slowing down, stopping, turning, or opening doors. You should check your mirrors regularly when driving.

Also check your mirrors moment examiner gives you directions, (Interior and appropriate side mirror.)
Also when you spot a potential hazard ahead,
Approaching green traffic lights,
After you have completed your turn into a new road,
Before changing gears, indicating etc etc, in short before you do or take any action.
Cruising along, every five to six seconds - check your speedometer same time - do a circuit three mirrrors speedometer.

Practice, train yourself to use them properly, so that with a quick glance you can see and assimilate everything in them. Do not stare.

Blindspot. Full backward right shoulder check when moving off from a stop. Quick shoulder check when changing lanes, position on the road..

Final point, When moving off, you check your interior mirror, right mirror, blind spot THEN you indicate. If you indicate before checking your blind spot you may be indicating to traffic that you are pulling out, which may then swerve to avoid,creating a dangerous situation

brian076

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

Cruising along, every five to six seconds - check your speedometer same time - do a circuit three mirrrors speedometer.

Checking all 3 mirrors every 5 to 6 seconds would be excessive in most cases. On a single lane road it's not necessary to check your door mirrors as often as you might on a dual carriageway and even at that every 10 to 15 seconds would generally suffice.
You should check your mirrors when appropriate, a lot of people fail their test for adopting the "nodding dog syndrome" of constantly checking all 3 mirrors and then missing something directly ahead of them.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

To All Instructors

Moving Off:
Is the indicator not there to indicate your intention?????(meaning that you would only indicate when you can see a gap in traffic behind) and then the last thing you do (Blind-spot) is to check that the road is clear before you move off (Observation).

Please correct me if I'm wrong?
I am very interested to get the opinion of ALL ADI's which read this..
Thanks to all..

J_R

DrivingTestTips (Brian) wrote: »

To All Instructors

Moving Off:
Is the indicator not there to indicate your intention?????(meaning that you would only indicate when you can see a gap in traffic behind) and then the last thing you do (Blind-spot) is to check that the road is clear before you move off (Observation).

Please correct me if I'm wrong?
I am very interested to get the opinion of ALL ADI's which read this..
Thanks to all..

In RED


That is correct. Therefore you check your blind spot to see if it is clear before indicating

DrivingTestTips: Brian

J_R

What are the mirrors for? if you use the blind-spot check to check the road??????

Thank for your help in this matter.

J_R

brian076 wrote: »

Checking all 3 mirrors every 5 to 6 seconds would be excessive in most cases. On a single lane road it's not necessary to check your door mirrors as often as you might on a dual carriageway and even at that every 10 to 15 seconds would generally suffice.
You should check your mirrors when appropriate, a lot of people fail their test for adopting the "nodding dog syndrome" of constantly checking all 3 mirrors and then missing something directly ahead of them.

Five, six seconds or thereabout frequency I was taught when training to be a driving instructor.

I said cruising along. What else have you to do except check your speedo, mirrors etc.

J_R

DrivingTestTips (Brian) wrote: »

J_R

What are the mirrors for? if you use the blind-spot check to check the road??????

Thank for your help in this matter.

Wishbone Ash

In everyday non-test situations, where there is heavy slow moving traffic, I presume most people will indicate and move the front of the vehicle out a little in the hope of another driver giving way and therefore making some progress.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

J_R

So once you indicate you move off.....is this right?

So its Mirrors, Blind-Spot, Signal and move off.....

J_R

DrivingTestTips (Brian) wrote: »

J_R

So once you indicate you move off.....is this right?

So its Mirrors, Blind-Spot, Signal and move off.....

Yippee . He's got it. !!!!!!

Not necessary to add IF CLEAR, or is it ??

Glad to be of help

DrivingTestTips: Brian

J_R wrote: »

Yippee . He's got it. !!!!!!

Not necessary to add IF CLEAR, or is it ??

Glad to be of help

OK I'm good!!!! But I have another question!

So you do the: Mirrors, Blind-Spot, road clear now! so you Signal..... and then a car comes from behind.... DO YOU!

1. Pull off
2. Turn off signal
3. Use the brake to inform the car that you are not pulling out and that you SEE them. O NO!! you would not see them because the last thing you done was indicate
4. Pull out straight in front of the car because the last thing you do was indicate and not CHECK THE ROAD..

What I have taught for years is;

1. Check your mirrors: (if the road is clear or you see a gap coming,"2-3 cars back").
2. Indicate: (as to indicate your intention to move off).
3. Blind-Spot: (as to give a final check that the road is clear)
4. then Move Off.

The last thing my pupils do is check the road..... that makes sense to me and every tester I have ever known.

SEE THIS http://www.drivingtesttips.ie/vpfile/Moving-Off.php

brian076

J_R wrote: »

Five, six seconds or thereabout frequency I was taught when training to be a driving instructor.

I said cruising along. What else have you to do except check your speedo, mirrors etc.

Perhaps look at the road ahead. There's no such thing as just cruising along, you're either driving or your not, it's far more important to be scanning the road ahead for possible hazards than constantly checking your mirrors just for the sake of it. In all honesty, if you're driving on a single lane road who's going to be coming up on your left that you wouldn't have spotted in your rear view mirror.
No ADI should teach a pupil to look in their mirrors every 5/6 seconds or indeed every 10/15 seconds. You should check your mirrors when necessary, that could be every 2 seconds or every 20 seconds

Alanstrainor

Now i am not an ADI, so i have no training in this. But every 5 or 6 seconds seems excessive imo. I would have to agree with the others on this, you shouldn't be checking your mirrors for the sake of checking your mirrors, ultimately it is what is infront of you that matters the most.

That being said, i do understand why learner drivers would be taught to check mirrors ever 15 seconds initially, as the reasoning behind checking your mirrors may not be immediately apparent when starting out.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

Hi Alan

I know one Driving School which have trained instructors for years and they have taught this (every 5-6 or 10-15 second) BS for years. it is madness! even for beginners.

When teaching beginners you go into the HOW and WHEN you check mirrors and then its simple...........LOOK where you are going and CHECK your mirrors regularly when it is safe to do so.

I hate this EVER bla bla seconds BS...

You don't have to be an ADI to know how its done

brian076

DrivingTestTips (Brian) wrote: »

Hi Alan

I know one Driving School which have trained instructors for years and they have taught this (every 5-6 or 10-15 second) BS for years. it is madness! even for beginners.

When teaching beginners you go into the HOW and WHEN you check mirrors and then its simple...........LOOK where you are going and CHECK your mirrors regularly when it is safe to do so.

I hate this EVER bla bla seconds BS...

You don't have to be an ADI to know how its done

+1
All learners should remember the DOS routine for mirrors, ie they should be checked before changing Direction, Overtaking & changing Speed either slowing down or accelerating.

J_R

Hi,

To clarify first post, way I was taught and which pass on to my pupils, in town, where negotiating traffic, junctions etc. check mirrors as first posted. - No need to have a set time period and never mentioned one..

However when cruising along on a clear road, teach my pupils they should be continuously scanning ahead and with regular checks in the mirrors. And to marry the mirrors with a speedo check. This is where said use the 5 to 6 seconds. Keeps them alert as well as providing them a good all around comprehensive picture.

Again to reiterate if dealing with traffic no need for a set time period, things quiet 5 to 6 seconds.

DrivingTestTips (Brian) wrote: »

OK I'm good!!!! But I have another question!

So you do the: Mirrors, Blind-Spot, road clear now! so you Signal..... and then a car comes from behind.... DO YOU!

1. Pull off
2. Turn off signal
3. Use the brake to inform the car that you are not pulling out and that you SEE them. O NO!! you would not see them because the last thing you done was indicate
4. Pull out straight in front of the car because the last thing you do was indicate and not CHECK THE ROAD..

What I have taught for years is;

1. Check your mirrors: (if the road is clear or you see a gap coming,"2-3 cars back").
2. Indicate: (as to indicate your intention to move off).
3. Blind-Spot: (as to give a final check that the road is clear)
4. then Move Off.

The last thing my pupils do is check the road..... that makes sense to me and every tester I have ever known.

SEE THIS http://www.drivingtesttips.ie/vpfile/Moving-Off.php

But where did the car come from ? You said the road was clear.

OK, followed the link and understand now. In the video you did not mention setting the gas or finding the holding point so you stalled as you moved off, THEN car came along..

So, you are again at the side of the road preparing to move off, but this time

You set the gas,
You find the holding point
Check mirrors and blind spot - ITS CLEAR
Indicate,
Look to front of car
Release handbrake.
Off you go

DrivingTestTips: Brian

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

To clarify first post, way I was taught and which pass on to my pupils, in town, where negotiating traffic, junctions etc. check mirrors as first posted. - No need to have a set time period and never mentioned one..

However when cruising along on a clear road, teach my pupils they should be continuously scanning ahead and with regular checks in the mirrors. And to marry the mirrors with a speedo check. This is where said use the 5 to 6 seconds. Keeps them alert as well as providing them a good all around comprehensive picture.

Again to reiterate if dealing with traffic no need for a set time period, things quiet 5 to 6 seconds.



But where did the car come from ? You said the road was clear.

OK, followed the link and understand now. In the video you did not mention setting the gas or finding the holding point so you stalled as you moved off, THEN car came along..

So, you are again at the side of the road preparing to move off, but this time

You set the gas,
You find the holding point
Check mirrors and blind spot - ITS CLEAR
Indicate,
Look to front of car
Release handbrake.
Off you go

J_R

I did not stall in the video.....so no did not stall in moving off scenario.
Safe driving is based on a few simple questions, one of which is.......what if? So I’m basing my question on that......what if a car comes after your pupils indicate? Its irrelevant where the car come from, if from a drive-way, road behind from the other side of the road, its make no difference.

Well for the benefit of all users/learners:
What you do is; put your foot on the break so that they know you’re not going to pull out (you could even cancel the signal and start again), check your mirrors blind-spot again..... But I do recommend you do the blind-spot last as you check the road last just before you move.

Now J_R My website is called www.DrivingTestTips.ie which you know! Let me explain!........DRIVING, TEST ,TIPS, I help people by giving them free tips/information on how to complete tasks on the test....like moving off....reverse...and so on. IF I have to tell them how to set peddles! Well then they are learners. DrivingTestTips.ie is to advanced for them and they should be contacting an ADI for beginner lessons because the use of the peddles is beginner information.

You have given me an idea! maybe ill add some helpful information like that to www.DrivingLessonsIreland.net as that is a site I’m working on for beginner information.

J_R

DrivingTestTips (Brian) wrote: »

J_R

I did not stall in the video.....so no did not stall in moving off scenario.
Safe driving is based on a few simple questions, one of which is.......what if? So I’m basing my question on that......what if a car comes after your pupils indicate? Its irrelevant where the car come from, if from a drive-way, road behind from the other side of the road, its make no difference.

Well for the benefit of all users/learners:
What you do is; put your foot on the break so that they know you’re not going to pull out (you could even cancel the signal and start again), check your mirrors blind-spot again..... But I do recommend you do the blind-spot last as you check the road last just before you move.

Now J_R My website is called www.DrivingTestTips.ie which you know! Let me explain!........DRIVING, TEST ,TIPS, I help people by giving them free tips/information on how to complete tasks on the test....like moving off....reverse...and so on. IF I have to tell them how to set peddles! Well then they are learners. DrivingTestTips.ie is to advanced for them and they should be contacting an ADI for beginner lessons because the use of the peddles is beginner information.

You have given me an idea! maybe ill add some helpful information like that to www.DrivingLessonsIreland.net as that is a site I’m working on for beginner information.

.what if a car comes after your pupils indicate?

Now that you know the correct sequence, Mirrors - Blind spot - IF CLEAR - indicate, you and your pupils should have no more problems with traffic appearing after you indicate. (Obviously until now, they had been in your blind spot)

When any of my pupils complain the "car suddenly appeared from nowhere" I tell them its that Scottie again, beaming cars down from the Enterprise, will complain to Capt Kirk.

Here is an rough video did as an experiment, may polish it up, do some more in the Summer. But does show the basics.
Hill Start

brian076 wrote: »

Checking all 3 mirrors every 5 to 6 seconds would be excessive in most cases. On a single lane road it's not necessary to check your door mirrors as often as you might on a dual carriageway and even at that every 10 to 15 seconds would generally suffice.
You should check your mirrors when appropriate, a lot of people fail their test for adopting the "nodding dog syndrome" of constantly checking all 3 mirrors and then missing something directly ahead of them.

When I was training as an instructor in Ireland, I asked my trainer the following, when things are quiet just driving along and you are not dealing with traffic, how often should you check your mirrors. (I used the expression "cruising" in my post.)

His reply was every five to six seconds, and do a circular check taking in the three mirrors and speedometer.

His qualifications, he had passed the IAM, Rospa, MSA Approved and Diamond Advanced Tutor tests, amongst many more. But all qualifications can remember at moment.

Will give his name via PM to anyone interested. (But do not think he is in "Instructor Training" any longer, moved on to bigger things)

DrivingTestTips: Brian

J_R
regarding your comments in the last post "grow up!" I help here for the benefit of the users and not to have these confrontational posts with you.

Just to help with your next video.

You’re burning the clutch reving and holding point/gripping point for that length of time.

brian076

J_R wrote: »

.

When I was training as an instructor in Ireland, I asked my trainer the following, when things are quiet just driving along and you are not dealing with traffic, how often should you check your mirrors. (I used the expression "cruising" in my post.)

His reply was every five to six seconds, and do a circular check taking in the three mirrors and speedometer.

His qualifications, he had passed the IAM, Rospa, MSA Approved and Diamond Advanced Tutor tests, amongst many more. But all qualifications can remember at moment.

Will give his name via PM to anyone interested. (But do not think he is in "Instructor Training" any longer, moved on to bigger things)

I think there's a difference between you training as an Instructor and a learner. You should be able to check your mirrors every 5 to 6 seconds (although despite what you say about your trainer it's still not necessary), without taking your eyes off the road.

Most learners don't have this skill and tend to look rather than take effective observation, which in effect means they're not looking where they should be about 50% of the time.

LookBehindYou

brian076 wrote: »

+1
All learners should remember the DOS routine for mirrors, ie they should be checked before changing Direction, Overtaking & changing Speed either slowing down or accelerating.

They would remember it better if it were explained to them WHY they should do it.
A Parrot could repeat all that stuff, but would not understand.
A person needs to be shown What to do, and a reason for doing it.

ADI34722

J_R wrote: »

Yippee . He's got it. !!!!!!

Not necessary to add IF CLEAR, or is it ??

Glad to be of help

Sorry JR gonna side with Brian on this one.

The routine for leaving the kerb for my pupils is. 1st gear first, Mirrors (clear), Signal, Blindspot (clear) and Move off. Please be looking at where your going when you do leave the Kerb.

ADI34722

LookBehindYou wrote: »

They would remember it better if it were explained to them WHY they should do it.
A Parrot could repeat all that stuff, but would not understand.
A person needs to be shown What to do, and a reason for doing it.

No thats true enough. It prob wont read properally but ill try. Get your self ready to move. (1st gear first). Mirrors next to see if the way is clear. Signal out into your lane. Blindspot almost like a safety check to make sure the way is fully clear. Pull out.

J_R

Hi,

Highway Code

159

Before moving off you should

* use all mirrors to check the road is clear
* look round to check the blind spots (the areas you are unable to see in the mirrors)
* signal if necessary before moving out
* look round for a final check

Move off only when it is safe to do so.

Please note the sequence.

You should not indicate before checking your blind spot, could be a car there, who could then assume you were pulling out, swerve to avoid

J_R

DrivingTestTips (Brian) wrote: »

J_R
regarding your comments in the last post "grow up!" I help here for the benefit of the users and not to have these confrontational posts with you.

Just to help with your next video.

You’re burning the clutch reving and holding point/gripping point for that length of time.

I have only corrected some of your posts. I have walked away from the last two threads. Youturned them too confrontational

But do not worry, will leave it up to the moderators in future.

However regarding my hill start video, burning the clutch ???
Price you should be willing to pay to move off safely and under control

Do a google, plenty of other hill start videos out there

here is oneHill Start. See the sequence

J_R

brian076 wrote: »

I think there's a difference between you training as an Instructor and a learner. You should be able to check your mirrors every 5 to 6 seconds (although despite what you say about your trainer it's still not necessary), without taking your eyes off the road.

Most learners don't have this skill and tend to look rather than take effective observation, which in effect means they're not looking where they should be about 50% of the time.

But Brian with our help they are not going to remain learners. They will learn how and when to check mirrors.

mags cherrywood

Well to be fair this all depends on where you are etc. if you in a town with slow moving traffic i would advice to look in the mirrors alot. i mean alot. the guy i had was obsessed with it so my head was going all directions until i was back on a main road. passed after all that but was well worth it. just make sure your not been obvious and just have a look around every now and again so he/she knows your doing so.. good luck!!!! and take your foot off the clutch!!!

ADI34722

J_R wrote: »

I have only corrected some of your posts. I have walked away from the last two threads. Youturned them too confrontational

But do not worry, will leave it up to the moderators in future.

However regarding my hill start video, burning the clutch ???
Price you should be willing to pay to move off safely and under control

Do a google, plenty of other hill start videos out there

here is oneHill Start. See the sequence

Not getting involved in an arguement but i would disagree with the "Price you should be willing to pay" statement. I have had a few people pushing the clutch quite hard on hillstarts and wouldnt be happy having to replace it when there is an easier and safe way to do a hillstart. I have replaced the clutch plate on cars before (Rallycross GTi's, VW Polos etc) and when you see the damage and scarring on the plate and flywheel you would think different too.

brian076

J_R wrote: »

But Brian with our help they are not going to remain learners. They will learn how and when to check mirrors.

Yes but not every 5 to 6 seconds when driving on a single lane road with little traffic, it's not good driving practice no matter what your expert teacher may have said, and I'd be surprised if many ADI's teach their pupils in this way. Pupils should be taught to use mirrors effectively, and this could be every 5/6 seconds or every 10/20 seconds depending on the situation.

ADI34722

brian076 wrote: »

Yes but not every 5 to 6 seconds when driving on a single lane road with little traffic, it's not good driving practice no matter what your expert teacher may have said, and I'd be surprised if many ADI's teach their pupils in this way. Pupils should be taught to use mirrors effectively, and this could be every 5/6 seconds or every 10/20 seconds depending on the situation.

Agreed Brian. There is no set time to check your mirrors but rather would change with the situation. Common sence really.

J_R

ADI34722 wrote: »

Not getting involved in an arguement but i would disagree with the "Price you should be willing to pay" statement. I have had a few people pushing the clutch quite hard on hillstarts and wouldnt be happy having to replace it when there is an easier and safe way to do a hillstart. I have replaced the clutch plate on cars before (Rallycross GTi's, VW Polos etc) and when you see the damage and scarring on the plate and flywheel you would think different too.

Hi,

Moving off. You get the car ready, (set gas, find the holding point), check to see if safe, then go.

If you look first to see if clear, only then get ready, conditions may have changed by the time you are finally ready to go.

Here yet aother hill starthttp://www.2pass.co.uk/hill.htm

That's it. Finished

ADI34722

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

Moving off. You get the car ready, (set gas, find the holding point), check to see if safe, then go.

If you look first to see if clear, only then get ready, conditions may have changed by the time you are finally ready to go.

Here yet aother hill starthttp://www.2pass.co.uk/hill.htm

That's it. Finished

I understand where you are coming from JR i really do, but i dont see the point in stressing the clutch anymore than you have to. My way is not that different from yours. We could just say different strokes for different folks. My pupils can take the car off smoothly and safely as im sure yours can. We wouldn't be ADI if they couldn't.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

J_R

I find it very to come to reason with your comments, you seam to have an issue with Irish ADI's as you always refer back to English Books and websites.

You turn posts into confrontational posts proven here where you have now 3 ADI's disagreeing with you and when this happens you end with,

That's it. Finished

To be fair to all involved if you open a can of worms you bring it on yourself.

Best regards
Brian

Alanstrainor

DrivingTestTips (Brian) wrote: »

J_R

I find it very to come to reason with your comments, you seam to have an issue with Irish ADI's as you always refer back to English Books and websites.

You turn posts into confrontational posts proven here where you have now 3 ADI's disagreeing with you and when this happens you end with,

That's it. Finished

To be fair to all involved if you open a can of worms you bring it on yourself.

Best regards
Brian

I think it's time to close that can of worms. This forum benefits from all the adi's that post, however i fear that bickering like this only serves to put a doubt in peoples minds on the advice given.