EGR valve diagnosis, removal, cleaning and replacement - with pics

JHMEG

The Exhuast Gas Recycler valve is a small need type valve that connects the exhaust and intake manifolds together. The idea is that when cruising a portion of the exhaust gases are fed back into the intake manifold where they are re-burned. Some people say a non-functioning valve will affect fuel economy and power on a modern car.. I can't say power was affected but economy did seem to be.

The EGR valves as used in my model car are known to give trouble.

For anyone who is interested, here is my recent experience with my own EGR valve. **EDIT: my car has the modern electrical type EGR valve. Cars with the older mechanical EGR valve can be pretty different **

Getting an intermittent check engine light. Comes on after the engine has warmed up and when cruising at about 50mph:



To diagnose I used my Bluetooth code reader, the mobile phone and a Barney glass of orange juice. The code reader is plugged in, and the phone reads the code:



We have a P0404, EGR valve acting up:



Now to identify the valve. Electrical valves all look the same (to me anyway), regardless of make/maufacturer. Mechanical also look similar, but probably not as much.



Unplug the connector and remove the two 12mm bolts and with a tap of a spanner it comes off.

What you can't see in this picture is that I turned it upside down and filled the two ports with carb cleaner and left the valve to soak overnight.



Next day, empty it out and scrape off the remaining gasket material. A paint scraper with a new Stanley blade will do the trick. It's important to do this slowly and carefully and not to add new features to the valve!



Ok, back out to the car and here's where the valve used to sit. That's the old gasket. I took it off even tho I would probably get away with re-using it. This isn't a head gasket so it's not that critical.



Ok, now to plug up the two ports before and crud from the gasket ends up going into a port. If stuff gets in the intake manifold port it bypasses the air filter and could do damage:



Pop and off comes the old gasket. This seems to have a slice of brass in the middle and is quite stiff.

What you can't see is that I cleaned the surface using the paint scraper, again being very careful to not add any new features.



New gasket wrapped up. Cost was €6. Note the cool JDM lettering.



New gasket unwrapped:



New gasket sitting in place:



Valve re-installed, and re-connected. It's important to tighten the bolts up to the appropriate torque setting, though in this case hand tight plus a quarter turn is good enough, gradually tightening both sides.



Engine check lamp turned off and reset. Now to test was it successful.



Now, the story didn't end there. About 2 weeks later the check engine light came on again, which I reset. It stayed off for about a week and came on again. Unfortunately the valve was sticking again, and my patience with it had run out.

So I decided to replace it. Expensive buggers they are, this one being €202 from the manufacturer, but as luck would have it a brand new genuine one came up on ebay which I got for £50 shipped.

The Check Engine Light hasn't come on since.

alias no.9

Excellent post. Where did you get the code reader, looks useful.

unkel

alias no.9 wrote: »

Excellent post. Where did you get the code reader, looks useful.

+1

How much is that reader? I presume it would work with any bluetooth phone or do you need a smartphone?

galwaytt

...I love how-to posts like this. For a Motors forum, we never seem to see that many on here.

....not a car, but one I did recenlty for the bike (not finished yet, btw...)..here

dnme

JHMEG

Many thanks for a wonderful post, very indepth and loads of tips. Where did you get the code reader? Will it do for any modern car?

cruizer101

I had a bit of a google for the OBD readers. You can pick them up on ebay from about 30 euro shipped from Hong Kong, not sure what the quality of these would be but thats cheap enough anyway. There was also one or two from UK which were around 80 euro.

It would seem that they will only work with windows phones, or windows pc.
I did however come across a s60 app that someone has written which looks like it does the job, and is available free which would do on a nokia phone.

http://www.nokiasoftware.net/trash-zone/28647-obdscope-v0-20-symbian-s60v3.html

All in all looks like a handy little thing device and I could see myself picking one up.

Edit: When I tried to download s60 app had some trouble might not be available anymore

Redisle

cruizer101 wrote: »

http://www.nokiasoftware.net/trash-zone/28647-obdscope-v0-20-symbian-s60v3.html

All in all looks like a handy little thing device and I could see myself picking one up.

Edit: When I tried to download s60 app had some trouble might not be available anymore

Cool looking app.

I downloaded it fine. For some reason the links on the site you linked point back to a forum if clicked but if you copy and paste the url into your browser it works fine. It's only for 3rd and 5th series devices so anything like a N95 or newer should work, just installed it on my N82 no bother, Id be nearly tempted to get one of these bluetooth readers now, if anything just to have another cool gadget

Edit: Found the actual homepage for that S60 OBD app -- http://obdscope.urli.net/

Nice tutorial too, always read threads like this when they come up, keep it up!

dnme

I found that code reader here
http://www.obdspy.com/elm327/bt_elm.php

but it's €90

what about this one here?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16921

Its $54.67 and seems to have more features

JHMEG

To answer the questions about the reader:

It's a cheapo E-OBD/CAN elm compatible reader that's Made In China. It works like a virtual COM port on any bluetooth host, so will work with most OBD software.

I paid about €30 for it on ebay a few years ago, but it's no different to any bluetooth Chinese reader off Dealextreme or Ebay etc.

This is most likely the same one with a different sticker for £21 delivered:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270509365202

As it's a generic E-OBD reader it will work with any car from 2001 on.

Any questions feel free to ask.

Ush1

JHMEG wrote: »

To answer the questions about the reader:

It's a cheapo E-OBD/CAN elm compatible reader that's Made In China. It works like a virtual COM port on any bluetooth host, so will work with most OBD software.

I paid about €30 for it on ebay a few years ago, but it's no different to any bluetooth Chinese reader off Dealextreme or Ebay etc.

This is most likely the same one with a different sticker for £21 delivered:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270509365202

As it's a generic E-OBD reader it will work with any car from 2001 on.

Any questions feel free to ask.

Cool, would it work with any mobile phone?

dnme

I have a 98 Corolla, Is this OBD II compliant? will it work with these devices? ( I have tried googling this but coming up with nothing, unsure about keywords)

Tragedy

Couple of points;

1)EGR valves can look very different
2)Not all post 2000 EGR valves are electric, many are still mechanical
3)Mechanical EGR valves wont give a check engine light
4)Fitting an EGR bypass kit is the preferred option, if there are any for your car

Replaced the EGR valve on my 03 diesel with a bypass tube, slightly improved MPG and slightly improved power.

JHMEG

Mechanical all look similar and electrical all look similar. Just like some cars have clutch cables some still have mechanical valves which will not put on check engine if they stick.

Putting a bypass kit or plate in place of an electrical valve will give a check engine light. On some cars with mechanical valves the bypass is recommended if the valves are known to be troublesome, eg VAG diesels.

@Ush1: will work with anything that has bluetooth and has OBD software available.

@gt112: '98 Corolla is def not E-ODB. It's probably OBD0 if anything (basically non-standard manufacturer specific)

Tragedy

JHMEG wrote: »

Mechanical all look similar and electrical all look similar. Just like some cars have clutch cables some still have mechanical valves which will not put on check engine if they stick.

They really really don't. Your thread needs to be labelled based on car or engine, as giving general information out on something like an EGR valve which differs so much from car to car - is bad mojo.

This is my egr in situ: http://tuning-diesels.com/75Zt/75egr.jpg

It looks nothing like the one in your car. VAG EGR's also look nothing like either one, and this is a Mondeo TDCi EGR > http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4651/tdcigk1.jpg

Putting a bypass kit or plate in place of an electrical valve will give a check engine light.

Which is why I said mechnically operated EGR's!

On some cars with mechanical valves the bypass is recommended if the valves are known to be troublesome, eg VAG diesels.

Actually, they're recommended on most including;
TDCi engines from the last model Mondeo
Volvo D5 engines
Almost all VAG diesels

PS: To show why EGR valves cause problems;
This is the EGR Valve off a 40,000 mile BMW diesel engine besides a new bypass tube.

JHMEG

Tragedy wrote: »

They really really don't.

Sorry, to me they broadly do... I don't think I'd have any problem finding one in any make of car, if it was present.

Your's looks nothing like mine as your's is mechanical.

Hi-res Ford Diesel valve, guessing electrical by the look of it. Looks similar to mine except the needle and mounting arrangement.

Tragedy

JHMEG wrote: »

Sorry, to me they broadly do... I don't think I'd have any problem finding one in any make of car, if it was present.

Your's looks nothing like mine as your's is mechanical.

Hi-res Ford Diesel valve, guessing electrical by the look of it. Looks similar to mine except the needle and mounting arrangement.

If someones able to find an EGR valve on any engine, they're not likely to need a guide to fitting/removal - in fairness.

EGR valves have the same basic mechanical(or electrical) design, but how it's implemented in shape, position and fitment changes from engine to engine.

Hence why you should be clearer that this is a guide for your car, and not for all cars.

[edit]That EGR looks nothing like the one you have in your pics. Seriously!

JHMEG

Tragedy wrote: »

If someones able to find an EGR valve on any engine, they're not likely to need a guide to fitting/removal - in fairness.

EGR valves have the same basic mechanical(or electrical) design, but how it's implemented in shape, position and fitment changes from engine to engine.

Hence why you should be clearer that this is a guide for your car, and not for all cars.

I think we agree it comes down to levels of knowledge and experience etc. I think if you feel confident in removing it you probably know how to find it?

Tragedy

JHMEG wrote: »

I think we agree it comes down to levels of knowledge and experience etc. I think if you feel confident in removing it you probably know how to find it?

Not really, I have no mechanical experience before I got my current car, but with guides I've:

Changed drive side door barrel/handle
Removed windows+window regulators
Installed new tweeters in rear doors
Removed and installed new EGR
Changed all filters+given it an oil change
Changed PCV filter
Changed brake pads+discs
Removed rear bumper, disconnected and taken apart rear parking sensors
Removed centre console, removed ashtray/cig lighter/cup holder, regreased all, re-installed
Cleaned plenum chambers

Stuff that would have cost me well over a grand at a dealers, and a numpty with no experience did it all with few mishaps - purely reading well written guides

Your guide is great, my sole problem is that it's labelled like a general guide and could lead to people messing and causing problems when they try apply it to a model that isn't yours

JHMEG

Tragedy wrote: »

Your guide is great, my sole problem is that it's labelled like a general guide and could lead to people messing and causing problems when they try apply it to a model that isn't yours

We'll have to disagree then! It's a general as an oil changing guide. The sump plug and oil filter won't be in the same place in every car, it's up to the reader to work out what's specific to their car.

As an example, the Mondeo you mentioned. Looks as accessible, as easily removed, and even easier cleaned than mine. In my opinion it's a very similar job, maybe even a bit easier all in.

Tragedy

Look at these three guides(all VW) to show how different/difficult it can be
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a3b4/cleanintake.htm
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a4/intake_maniremove.htm
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a5/cleanintake%20pumpe.htm

JHMEG

Tragedy wrote: »

Look at these three guides(all VW) to show how different/difficult it can be
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a3b4/cleanintake.htm
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a4/intake_maniremove.htm
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a5/cleanintake%20pumpe.htm

You have a fixation with mechanical valves! Mine is electical and this guide is for electrical EGR valves!

Tragedy

And the guides to electrical ones are nothing like yours.

You posted
"Now to identify the valve. They all look the same, regardless of make/maufacturer, and there are only two types, mechanical and electric. Being a modern car this has the electric one."

This, quite simply, is dangerous information.

JHMEG

Tragedy wrote: »

This, quite simply, is dangerous information.

I have changed it to avoid injury to pedants.

oxegen85

i hope it was foggy when you took those pics of the dash. Folk around here would not like it if you had ur fogs on for the sake of it. sorry for being completely off topic

JHMEG

Tragedy wrote: »

And the guides to electrical ones are nothing like yours.

First electrical one in google search results. Looks familiar. Pontiac Grand Am. Mine's a Honda Civic.

Seriously, I have had enough of this now.

JHMEG

oxegen85 wrote: »

i hope it was foggy when you took those pics of the dash. Folk around here would not like it if you had ur fogs on for the sake of it. sorry for being completely off topic

It wasn't, and I was driving when I took the photos too

Hellrazer

Fair play Jhmeg--Great guide and loving that code reader aswell.

Cocoon

I blocked the vacuum hose going to the EGR valve on my camry 200,000 km's ago. It was recommended by a mechanic to do this to cut down on emmisions?

Never had a problem one way or the other but when you think about the amount of crap that gets recycled through the EGR into the intake manifold over the years it bound to cause problems.

Anybody else ever disable the EGR??

My emmisions last year in the NCT were 0.7 (3.0 fail).

Not bad for a 15 year old Camry...

Mr Benevolent

Cocoon wrote: »

I blocked the vacuum hose going to the EGR valve on my camry 200,000 km's ago. It was recommended by a mechanic to do this to cut down on emmisions?

Never had a problem one way or the other but when you think about the amount of crap that gets recycled through the EGR into the intake manifold over the years it bound to cause problems.

Anybody else ever disable the EGR??

My emmisions last year in the NCT were 0.7 (3.0 fail).

Not bad for a 15 year old Camry...

You can generally disable the EGR on a diesel but not on a petrol.

Raiser

First off - Thanks JHMEG for taking the extra time to detail and illustrate all of that for the benefit of others.

Second of all I don't think anyone has the right to be pedantic about the minutiae of any of these how-to threads - There's the Car on the thread that's actually in the photos and then there's your own - go work on any variance on detail in your own time......

Surely the point is that EGR valve on any Car is susceptible to amassing deposits as time goes by due to the nature of the job its there to do in the first place and People may need to locate theirs and sort it out - If you're up for it, then know the risks, do your research and get it done

bonzodog2

@JHMEG

Nice thread, very detailed and descriptive. One point to suggest when cleaning bits of old gasket off things, a blunt scraper blade is less likely to dig in to an alloy fitting than a new one