Gays in Fraternities

Alex_Jones

I'm gay, but only about 3 people I know know I am. The trouble is, I'm quite good at sport and have recently been elected to membership of a men-only college fraternity (that's extremely jocular in nature). There's a bottle of port night coming up at the end of January and I think one of the guys knows about my sexual preferences which makes me extremely anxious about attending.

Roro4Brit

Wait is this serious or are you just describing Season Five of Dawson's Creek where Jack McPhee joins a fraternity?

Either way I think you should watch the show and see how Jack deals with this very problem. Serously it's good and it helped me a lot when I was a teenager worrying about the whole thing.

Whats your main worry here? That you will be outed by someone else and be shunned by the fellow frat boys?....If so then all I would ask you is why on earth would you want to join such a close knit group of men who are so immatue that the presence of a gay person would even be an issue. I'm aware the world is not perfect, and there may be one or two knuckle draggers that may have an issue...but if the frat as a whole perpetuates hate and intolerance of others who are different, then maybe its not the right environment to spent your college years in. Especially as this is an elective scenario and not something you NEED to be part of, I'd suggest you find an environment where you don't need to live in fear of being who you are. It's not exactly the same but a mate of mine live on campus of an Irish Uni and shared an apartment with two homophobic dickheads and it got to the stage where he preferred to commute 4 hours a day than stay in that apartment.

Boston

Alex_Jones; Hello and welcome to the forum.

For some prospective on my advice. I know the "Fraternity" you speak of, and I know members of it. You will no be the first gay member, you won't even be close. Given the nature of the organisation to which the Fraternity belongs, you'll probably not be the only current member who is gay. Membership varies between 40 - 50 plus the "old boys". Give those numbers, there's no way you'll be the only gay guy.

Just because people are immature and jocklike doesn't mean they're ignorant and biggotted. You might find these people are actually more accepting of your then the general public. I can't imagine you'll get much in the way of hassle. It's entirely possible that some members of this fratenity will no socialise with you due to your sexuality. In the same way they may not socialise you for a hundred other nonsensical reasons, such as place of pervious education or your fathers profession.

What is certain beyound and doubt is that if you do no attend said "bottle of port" night, they definitely won't socialise with you since you're not there. You'll in effect rob them of the oppertunity to impress you and become friends. If this chap tells them all? So what, you're no worse off then when you started and having a group of people who know can make life easier to bare.

Roro4Brit wrote: »

Wait is this serious or are you just describing Season Five of Dawson's Creek where Jack McPhee joins a fraternity?

Either way I think you should watch the show and see how Jack deals with this very problem. Serously it's good and it helped me a lot when I was a teenager worrying about the whole thing.

This forum isn't here for your amusement.

Roro4Brit wrote: »

Whats your main worry here? That you will be outed by someone else and be shunned by the fellow frat boys?....If so then all I would ask you is why on earth would you want to join such a close knit group of men who are so immatue that the presence of a gay person would even be an issue. I'm aware the world is not perfect, and there may be one or two knuckle draggers that may have an issue...but if the frat as a whole perpetuates hate and intolerance of others who are different, then maybe its not the right environment to spent your college years in. Especially as this is an elective scenario and not something you NEED to be part of, I'd suggest you find an environment where you don't need to live in fear of being who you are.

Youe advice amounts to "leave the social grouping", which is clearly not what the poster wants. He wishes to remain in this grouping for whatever reason and is asking for advice on how to deal with the issue. Personally running away and hiding from problems is never a good solution.

Note; Fraternity refers to a brotherhood of men, the poster isn't necessarily talking about an American pie style Frat house.

Roro4Brit wrote: »

It's not exactly the same but a mate of mine live on campus of an Irish Uni and shared an apartment with two homophobic dickheads and it got to the stage where he preferred to commute 4 hours a day than stay in that apartment.

We all have problems mate. You don't have the right to belittle someone's else's problems just because they seem trivial to you. At least you friend can commute to somewhere where people accept him, even if it is four hours a day.

Roro4Brit

Boston all I'll say is that you need to back off. Do think I have nothing better to do than to sit around on a sunday night and poke fun at someone?

How dare you. My post was written with absolute sincerity.

I have no idea why my suggestion that someone refer to a TV show for advice is 'for amusement'. The show covered, in a very mature and learned fashion, the angst of a young gay man in college struglling to find his own identity in a male dominated frat household. Forgive me, but this resonates strongly with the OP's problems, so my suggestion is valid and not in jest. I loved the show, and it did, whether you can appreciate it or not, give me hope that someday I would eventually be able to come out.

Yes my advice is to leave the social grouping, IF, and this is the part your gung ho disection of my post conveniently left out, that if this is going to be an environment which will cause the op to be genuinely 'afraid' then why on earth would he choose to join it? Now this may be unfounded and the group may, as you suggest, be more than welcoming to a homosexual person. But on the off chance that they're not...why hang around? It's not "running away and hiding from his problems". The OP doesn't have the problem, the group does, and all I'm suggesting is that he spends his college time enjoying his life in a welcoming environment instead of handing round wasting time trying to educate those who aren't worth educating.

And I have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what you mean by belittling someones problems. That I can't even address cos I'm 100% at a loss.

Anyhow, all in all Boston, you're bang out of order, and I have no idea how someone could make such a gross misinterpretation of a genuine post.

Boston

Like omg, this is so like that episode of sex in the system where Samantha was being completely obvious to how her actions were being perceived by Carrie and Char and continued to vocally defend her positions ignoring the original purpose of this thread and Alex_Jones request for help to a drive to brow beat another posted into submission, somehow proving that yes, indeed, someone on the internet is wrong.

I think my clever analogy fell apart towards the end there... I've no intention of engaging with you in a discussion of this matter as bicker on these threads does a massive disservice to the person asking for help. Feel free to contact a moderator via the report post function.

Roro4Brit

Boston, It doesn't take much to apologise. When you're wrong you're wrong.

When I was 15 I used to think that as a guy from a small town in the midlands, that coming out as gay was never, EVER going to be an option. Then I watched that TV show. And I had hope. You may laugh, but it's true. My post was genuine, and I hope the OP can see that.

Alex_Jones

It's not just on this thread he's been giving people a hard time tonight.

ronaneire

My two cents, each entitled to their opinion.
Boston must think he has moderators stripes.

Boston

A moderator couldn't say the things I say.

ronaneire

Boston wrote: »

This forum isn't here for your amusement.

Boston wrote: »

A moderator couldn't say the things I say.

Why is that?

ixoy

You're both entitled to your opinions. Personally, I believe there's no harm if people found a TV show storyline to be helpful to them. It won't work for everyone but if it works for you - great.

Boston wrote: »

A moderator couldn't say the things I say.

Really? Well they will tell everyone to behave, so: BEHAVE.

Annasopra

ixoy wrote: »

You're both entitled to your opinions. Personally, I believe there's no harm if people found a TV show storyline to be helpful to them. .

Agreed and also no harm in advising someone as well

shay_562

Alex_Jones wrote: »

I'm gay, but only about 3 people I know know I am. The trouble is, I'm quite good at sport and have recently been elected to membership of a men-only college fraternity (that's extremely jocular in nature). There's a bottle of port night coming up at the end of January and I think one of the guys knows about my sexual preferences which makes me extremely anxious about attending.

Some clarification needed. Why do you think he knows? And if he does, what do you think he's likely to do with the information? What exactly is making you anxious about attending? Do you think he'll confront you? Or is it that he might have told the others, and that you'll be left in a horrendously awkward situation?

On the surface of it, I'm inclined to agree with Boston. If he is the type to tell people of his suspicions, you not turning up isn't going to help; if anything, my experience is that people not attending gatherings within small groups are the ones most likely to be topics of conversation. If you want to remain a part of this group, you can't exactly not go to their social events. I reckon you have four options: tell them (doesn't seem like the type of option you'll go for based on your post; besides which, I'm also pretty sure I know which organisation you're referring to, and I can see why you're reluctant for them to know); drop out of the society (not an ideal scenario); talk to this guy in private, either trying to gauge what he might know or flat-out telling him alone the truth and asking him to show discretion (depends entirely on how well you know him and what kind of guy he is); or saying nothing, going along like normal and hoping for the best (which is reliant on you not being anxious or awkward, on the surface at least, if you want them not to know anything's up).

ajxx

Sorry curiosity and semi OT but what is a bottle of port night? I didnt realise there was any of those men only fraternities in Irish Universities....

Anyway OP as a former student of that college I really think that its quite gay friendly by any standards. Indeed I have a (closeted) gay acquaintance there who is well known and active on one of the sports teams.

Alex_Jones

David Norris is a member of the KOTC, so I guess it's not all that gay unfriendly.

cotwold

ajxx wrote: »

I didnt realise there was any of those men only fraternities in Irish Universities..

There aren't. Not in the true sense.

Annasopra

Alex_Jones wrote: »

David Norris is a member of the KOTC, so I guess it's not all that gay unfriendly.

Whats the KOTC?

Boston

Knights of the Campanile. It's a Trinity old boys club for the team captains. You need to be put forward by an existing member.