Who's more to blame?

brummytom

Right, this is a strange one for AH alright but I can't think of anywhere this would fit.

I was talking to a girl in school yesterday, she was telling me about this lad in Year 8 (so he'd be 12/13).

A few weeks ago, he'd been out with some friends; didn't get home until half 1-ish (in the morning). His mom, obviously, was worried stiff. Screaming and shouting at him when he got home. "It wasn't my fault" he said. He didn't have any money, any credit and didn't know which bus to get.

His mom, just glad to have him back safe, agrees it was just 'one of those things'.

The next day, as she's going through his school blazer to put in the wash, she finds dozens of cigarettes with the filter removed. She grills her son on what's happened.

Now... this is the weird bit.
It turns out this lad and 3 mates (2 boys, 1 girl) have been going to a 50yearold man's house, where he's been giving them cigarettes and alcohol. A police investigation's underway now.


While this girl was telling me this, she went on about the "poor children" and how horrible it must be for them.

Now, I can't help but think... should they be treated as 'victims'? They went to this man's house, knowing full well it was a dodgy thing to do; in return, they got what they wanted.

One problem I have is that I find it terribly hard to label someone 'evil'; one thing I particularly despise in the gutter press. Once someone is accused of anything to do with child abuse, they're labelled 'evil', 'a monster'. Not once have I saw their psychological state of mind being questionned.

Surely someone capable of doing certain things mustn't be of sound mind? I'm not a liberal/pinko person but I do have a problem with the simplistic labelling of someone as 'evil'.

Now while this man may well have had mental problems, the children most certainly didn't, and are old enough to think for themselves. They knew what they were doing, and what they wanted.

So my question's the title. Who's more to blame?


Sorry for such a long post, I didn't intend it to be!

starbelgrade

The parents. They're always to blame.

mikom

brummytom wrote: »

Who's more to blame?

Hmmm..... it's hard to choose, but it's either tl or dr that's the culprit.

MaybeLogic

It's impossible to know the mans' motives,so a bit hard to say really.

Mr. Incognito

Parents shouldn't have their 12 year old children wandering outdoors at night.

Old men shouldn't be giving children booze and smokes.

Children are stupid no matter how clever you think they are.

Are you a parent?

Yakult

Parents of course.

brummytom

MaybeLogic wrote: »

It's impossible to know the mans' motives,so a bit hard to say really.

Fair point

brummytom

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Parents shouldn't have their 12 year old children wandering outdoors at night.

Old men shouldn't be giving children booze and smokes.

Children are stupid no matter how clever you think they are.

Are you a parent?

No. But I am a child

Daemos

They're both to blame, but since you're looking for who's more to blame, I'd say it's the man because he shouldn't be that stupid

starbelgrade

I wish an old man would give me booze & fags.

Mr. Manager

starbelgrade wrote: »

I wish an old man would give me booze & fags.

+1

MagicMarker

The old man is to blame (if of sound body and mind of course).

He shouldn't be giving fags and alcohol to children, end of.

Mr. Manager

MagicMarker wrote: »

The old man is to blame (if of sound body and mind of course).

He shouldn't be giving fags and alcohol to children, end of.

Children of that age shouldn't be drinking or smoking either. end of

AnonoBoy

Is there some way we can blame the gays/immigrants and/or Fianna Fail?

If not then this thread is doomed to failure in After Hours.

liah

Why were the filters removed..?

I can understand if it was just filters and the tobacco removed (using the tobacco for joints), but I don't get why it was full fags with no filters. You don't use filters for joints, just roaches.

/I'm not missing the point, because I haven't much to say on that, just curious.

CrazyRabbit

Blame everyone. It's usually accurate.

MagicMarker

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Children of that age shouldn't be drinking or smoking either. end of

O......k?

Misty Chaos

Blame those horrible video games, filling kids heads with all sorts of crazy nonsense.

Will someone please think of the children!

[/sarcasm]

TPD

liah wrote: »

Why were the filters removed..?

I can understand if it was just filters and the tobacco removed (using the tobacco for joints), but I don't get why it was full fags with no filters. You don't use filters for joints, just roaches.

/I'm not missing the point, because I haven't much to say on that, just curious.

I was wondering that too. Maybe it's a hip new hardcore way of smoking, and only the uncool kids smoke filtered cigarettes.

Mr. Manager

MagicMarker wrote: »

O......k?

You can't instantly jump on and say that the elderly man is in the wrong. It's 50/50 IMO. The man knows that if he is to be caught doing what he is doing he will have explaining to do and the kids know that dropping into a 50 year old mans house at 1 in the morning for booze and smokes is wrong.

Jesus Juice

They were probably getting the fags,pulling off the filters,then buying rolling tobacco and smoking rolleys...or something.

ejmaztec

Now we know what Santa does when Christmas is over.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

In this day and age, kids know not to go to some bloke's house that they don't know; while the bloke knows not to let kids he doesn't know into his house, let alone give them booze and drinks.

He may well have done nothing, but he should have KNOWN that it would, at least, arise suspicion and, in this country have him labeled as a child molester even before a trial begins.

If it transpire that he's NOT charged with anything sexual (I assume he's going to be charged with give alcohol and cigarettes to minors), he'll still be seen as the culprit because, firstly for supplying and secondly because he's an adult. The kids are just plain thick, but stupidy is not a crime.

TPD

Jesus Juice wrote: »

They were probably getting the fags,pulling off the filters,then buying rolling tobacco and smoking rolleys...or something.

Er.. you can buy filters for making rollies. Everywhere.

Jesus Juice

The Perfect Drug wrote: »

Er.. you can buy filters for making rollies. Everywhere.

Well we've already established these kids are thick!

Hank_Jones

I blame the government.

I just have one thing to say: let's have less men giving kids booze and cigarettes and more money for public schools. ...

Sofiztikated

I dunno, those kids could be either really stupid, or really niave.

Used to go to school with a guy who I'd easily say could have the potential to be a child molester, could see it through high school. Just a bit simple, but with adult urges.

Wouldn't be suprised if I picked up the paper and he was in it.

But even then, the kids would cop pretty quickly.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Hank_Jones wrote: »

I blame the government.

I just have one thing to say: let's have less men giving kids booze and cigarettes and more money for public schools. ...

Why the eff would we want that? Jusy heap everything onto the teachers and cut their wages. Sure a babysitter only costs about 10€ per hour.

(Please ensure that sarcasm detectors are on and functioning properly before replying)

ejmaztec

The mother putting the lad's blazer in the wash shows that, as far as being thick is concerned, the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree in that particular family.

Unless of course, blazers don't shrink to fit Barbie dolls these days.

brummytom

ejmaztec wrote: »

The mother putting the lad's blazer in the wash shows that, as far as being thick is concerned, the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree in that particular family.

Unless of course, blazers don't shrink to fit Barbie dolls these days.

Nope, ours are machine washable

ejmaztec

brummytom wrote: »

Nope, ours are machine washable

That's why kids are so depressed, being subjected to that kind of style abuse.

MaybeLogic

Come to think of it...reading through that again ,I blame for your mate for squealing on the 'oul fella,having accepted his hospitality (regardless of the oul mans motives) and getting his friends in trouble.
Tell him,from MaybeLogic, to grow a pair of balls.

MagicMarker

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

You can't instantly jump on and say that the elderly man is in the wrong.

Yes I can, because he is wrong.

ejmaztec

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yes I can, because he is wrong.

Perhaps he was so overjoyed that they found his church sermons so interesting, that the least he could do was to invite them round to the presybtery for free fags and booze.

Bernie_Bernbaum

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

You can't instantly jump on and say that the elderly man is in the wrong. It's 50/50 IMO. The man knows that if he is to be caught doing what he is doing he will have explaining to do and the kids know that dropping into a 50 year old mans house at 1 in the morning for booze and smokes is wrong.

50 is elderly now??

Reindeer

I should hope to Mary that our 50-year-old's know better than our 12-year-old's. If the adults get to share the blame with the children, I think that would go a long ways to explaining a great many other happenings in Ireland....

jd007

Well as the op said we don't know whether the man was in the right state of mind. If he was then I think he is to blame, he should know better.

If he isn't in the right state of mind then obviously the kids are to blame for taking advantage of him.

One_Armed_Dwarf

Them kids sound like whores

magma69

I blame the foreigners anyway.

phantom_lord

liah wrote: »

Why were the filters removed..?

I can understand if it was just filters and the tobacco removed (using the tobacco for joints), but I don't get why it was full fags with no filters. You don't use filters for joints, just roaches.

/I'm not missing the point, because I haven't much to say on that, just curious.

just makes them stronger to smoke

Ickle Magoo

Without knowing any more about the guys mental health, it's impossible to say. If he is of sound mind then as the adult he should have known better, I'm not sure what innocently driven motive would be acceptable rationale for giving alcohol and cigs to 12/13 year olds.

If he's not the full shilling then it's more than possible the kids are just taking the p & getting him to purchase the drink and cigs for them.

Abi

Personally, I think it was Toms fault.

minidazzler

Tom we all know you are really a 50 year old man, who likes to hang out with kids and gets them drunk, si yeah, it's all your fault! :P

Abi

Sickening, is what it is.

Karl Hungus

I blame the kids for being a bad influence on the old man.

lizardfudge

No one blame the cigarette companies yet?