wiggle

jwshooter

a question for you guys in the know.


i ordered a giro Ionos off slane on the 6th jan .
after two weeks of its coming well it did not today .so i canceled it as it would be another week at least and they were not able to say if there supplier had them in stock.

i placed a order with wiggle for the same giro Ionos for a 143.99 pounds sterling ,this came to 167.03 euro on there calculator including free post .

when i went to the next stage it came to 202 euro .plus 4 euro for 24hr priority .
any ideas

Beasty

They added Irish VAT at 21%

Better buying from CRC or Slane who apply the UK rules (which zero-rate helmets as safety equipment)

Slane were slow with an order I placed at Xmas, but I think they are back to normal now

blorg

Technically Wiggle are following the law, the other retailers are not. Sucks for Wiggle.

Beasty

blorg wrote: »

Technically Wiggle are following the law, the other retailers are not. Sucks for Wiggle.

Not sure how much business Slane do in Ireland, but it seems to me only a matter of time before the tax authorities catch-up with CRC (particularly given the exposure they received on TV a couple of days ago, when they made a big play of their rate of growth and scale of exports)

IM0

this doesnt make sense!
when you buy something from the UK you are paying including uk Vat (or anywhere else in the euro zone/EU for that matter)
there is no extra Irish Vat, you only pay VAT once! Very strange

Beasty

me@ucd wrote: »

this doesnt make sense!
when you buy something from the UK you are paying including uk Vat (or anywhere else in the euro zone/EU for that matter)
there is no extra Irish Vat, you only pay VAT once! Very strange

If you buy in a shop, you pay the local VAT rate - hence buying in NI, you normally pay 17.5% VAT, buying in the South, you pay 21%

Cross-border mail-order sales are subject to special VAT rules within the EU

If the "foreign" retailer sells less than a certain amount into another EU country (with Ireland the current limit is, I think, €35k), the VAT rate of the country where the retailer is based is used. In these circumstances UK retailers apply the UK VAT rules. Under UK VAT rules hemlets are zero-rated, and hence if you can find a retailer that applies UK VAT helmets are not subject to any VAT

If the "foreign" retailer sells more than this limit, they should register for VAT in the other country, and apply that country's VAT rules. Hence, as Wiggle sell so much into Ireland, they must apply the Irish VAT rules (which impose 21% VAT on helmets)

There would appear to be some UK retailers who are not applying these rules correctly - they seem to be selling much more then €35k into Ireland each year, and should apply the Irish rules, but are actually continuing to apply the UK rules

blorg

me@ucd wrote: »

this doesnt make sense!
when you buy something from the UK you are paying including uk Vat (or anywhere else in the euro zone/EU for that matter)
there is no extra Irish Vat, you only pay VAT once! Very strange

If a retailer has sales over a (quite low) level to another EU country they are meant to charge local VAT for shipments to that country. The idea is to stop all internet companies locating in Luxembourg. This has been the law since I think 2002 but it is only occasionally followed- generally by the bigger players (Wiggle, Amazon, etc.) CRC don't yet and long may they not but legally they should...

IM0

ah so the situation with the Helmets is the exception rather than the rule. Any other categories/certain products like frames or groupsets or ANYTHING where this VAT difference applies?

Beasty

me@ucd wrote: »

ah so the situation with the Helmets is the exception rather than the rule. Any other categories/certain products like frames or groupsets or ANYTHING where this VAT difference applies?

The big difference (21% to be precise) is with helmets - I would need to check, but it is possible that other safety equipment (eg reflective gear) is zero rated in the UK. However bikes and all components are subject to full VAT in both countries

On these other items there is still a difference - the UK rate is 17.5% and the Irish rate 21%, so there is still a saving (3.5% of the net of VAT price) if you purchase from someone applying UK VAT

EDIT - I've just checked - other cycling safety equipment is subject to full VAT in the UK

Mr Velo

Beasty wrote: »

The big difference (21% to be precise) is with helmets - I would need to check, but it is possible that other safety equipment (eg reflective gear) is zero rated in the UK. However bikes and all components are subject to full VAT in both countries

On these other items there is still a difference - the UK rate is 17.5% and the Irish rate 21%, so there is still a saving (3.5% of the net of VAT price) if you purchase from someone applying UK VAT

EDIT - I've just checked - other cycling safety equipment is subject to full VAT in the UK

So what are we saying here.... it's cheaper to buy a helmet in the UK (wiggle)??

Beasty

Paddy_Fowler wrote: »

So what are we saying here.... it's cheaper to buy a helmet in the UK (wiggle)??

Not Wiggle - they charge Irish VAT - CRC and Slane charge no VAT, and will be cheaper than Wiggle, or any Irish retailers

at1withmyself

Had you selected Ireland as the shipping destination before you put it in your basket? If you go to Wiggle by default it assumes your from the UK and quotes UK prices (even if you select euro's), the main thing is to ensure you pick the correct shipping destination while browsing then you'll know exactly how much the item is.

Also does anyones know for sure that CRC don't just absorb the tax difference themselves in order to keep the prices low?

jwshooter wrote: »

a question for you guys in the know.


i ordered a giro Ionos off slane on the 6th jan .
after two weeks of its coming well it did not today .so i canceled it as it would be another week at least and they were not able to say if there supplier had them in stock.

i placed a order with wiggle for the same giro Ionos for a 143.99 pounds sterling ,this came to 167.03 euro on there calculator including free post .

when i went to the next stage it came to 202 euro .plus 4 euro for 24hr priority .
any ideas

Lumen

Th obvious solution to this issue is for Wiggle to purchase Dublin 15 from our heavily indebted state so that it can legally sell products at 15% VAT.

It could then extend its range of products to include everything a cyclist requires. Euro-compliant team cars, Assos-certified washing machines, cake, full-height shaving mirrors, everything.

I look forward to daily deliveries of crusty baguettes and sfogliatelle from our new Wiggle overlords.

paddyduc

Aside from the helmets i'd much rather put 21% into our revenue than 17.5% to the queen's;)

Jip

Beasty wrote: »

but it seems to me only a matter of time before the tax authorities catch-up with CRC (particularly given the exposure they received on TV a couple of days ago, when they made a big play of their rate of growth and scale of exports)

What was this ?

ednwireland

Jip wrote: »

What was this ?

so you missed this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055804649

linking to this newsline report

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVGqVj4bIxQ

Jip

Cheers ednwireland, managed to miss that thread alright.

Beasty

at1withmyself wrote: »

Also does anyones know for sure that CRC don't just absorb the tax difference themselves in order to keep the prices low?

Yes - their invoices show UK VAT on them, and their (out of date, as it still shows 15% VAT) website confirms this also

There is no way they would absorb the 21% involved with helmets anyway

sy

I know this has been asked before but who gets the difference between the Uk and Irish Vat rate? Would be very difficult to monitor.

Beasty

sy wrote: »

I know this has been asked before but who gets the difference between the Uk and Irish Vat rate? Would be very difficult to monitor.

If they apply UK VAT, the UK gets it, if they apply Irish VAT, Ireland gets it

The point is that VAT is a tax on consumers, and the theory is that it should be paid in the country of purchase. This is easy to determine with shop sales.

With mail order it should be paid where the purchaser is based. However it would be impractical for every retailer to register for VAT in all 25 EU countries (and apply their VAT rules) where only a small amount of sales may be made in some of those countries.

Hence these rules are only applied above a certain level of sales (€35k pa for Ireland at present). Theoretically it should pretty much even itself out for the sales below this level, but because prices in Ireland are higher than in the UK (partly because of the current strength of the Euro, but the relative sizes of the respective economies also affects this), Ireland does probably lose out overall (although Ireland does get some of this back because it has chosen a sales thresshold which is significantly below that of the UK)

The point with any UK retailers that should but do not register for VAT in Ireland is that the Irish Exchequer is losing more than the law intends.

The tax authorities do spot checks on all businesses, and the Irish Revenue could ask their UK counterparts to investigate any companies they think are abusing the rules. The point I was making in an earlier post was the publicity CRC have been receiving recently may trigger such an investigation

jwshooter

your right beasty, i sent a e mail to wiggle . there reply was what you said .

the point is it cost me 56 bucks more for the helmet.