Question - Bodily Samples - what do you think

Reloc8

Factual questions - bonus points and added credibility & kudos for getting them right :-

In what circumstances does Irish law empower the taking of bodily samples for testing without the consent of the person to be tested ?

In what circumstances does Irish law empower a court to draw inferences from a failure to submit to quasi-optional testing and what is the evidential value of a failure to consent to testing ?

What type of samples can be 'forced' out of a subject for testing ?

To what use can samples under any of the three scenarios above be put ?

what do you think should be the position ?

Tom Young

Section 2 of 1990 CJ Forensic Ev Act, amended by Section 14 of the CJ Act 2006. Pretty much answers all of the questions.

See paper by Tony McGillicuddy BL on same.

Sorry, quick and dirty answer!

Tom Young

Fingerprints, palm prints and photographs-

Section 6 Criminal Justice Act 1984 provides for the taking of fingerprints and photographs. Section 11 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1997 - Prints. Taking of fingerprints, palm prints or photographs of convicted persons or persons dealt with under Probation of Offenders Act, 1907.

The Criminal Law Act 1976 contains provisions for taking photographs and prints applicable to persons detained under section 30 of the Offences Against the State Act 1939.

McCrack

As pointed there are a myriad of statutory powers allowing bodily samples to be taken without consent...prints, hair, mouth swabs...

Often prisoners will give these on consent when asked and it's important to point out that if this is the case the Gardai can retain the samples for as long as they please...

If statutory powers are invoked the samples must be destroyed after 6 months if no prosecution is pending.

The new DNA Bill probably amends all this however.. I havent seen it yet.

Reloc8

Hmmm...seems everyone thinks its just the criminal law that's engaged...(hint)

Victor

Road Traffic / Road Safety Act and Railways Safety Act, probably also some acts covering employer-based health & safety. Various public health provisions.

Reloc8

McCrack wrote: »

As pointed there are a myriad of statutory powers allowing bodily samples to be taken without consent...prints, hair, mouth swabs...

Often prisoners will give these on consent when asked and it's important to point out that if this is the case the Gardai can retain the samples for as long as they please...

If statutory powers are invoked the samples must be destroyed after 6 months if no prosecution is pending.

The new DNA Bill probably amends all this however.. I havent seen it yet.

Yes Footprint or similar impression other than hand or mouth, hair other than pubic hair, a nail or any material under a nail don't require consent but blood, public hair, urine or saliva, or bodily orifice/genital region swabs or dental impression can be taken only where consent is given by the subject.

Anyone else want to have a go ? Still missing info, with thanks to those who've replied.

Reloc8

Tom Young wrote: »

Section 2 of 1990 CJ Forensic Ev Act, amended by Section 14 of the CJ Act 2006. Pretty much answers all of the questions.

See paper by Tony McGillicuddy BL on same.

Sorry, quick and dirty answer!

Sorry Tom...it dun't

dermot_sheehan

No one seems to have mentioned sections 13 and 14 of the Road Traffic Act 1994

Victor

gabhain7 wrote: »

No one seems to have mentioned sections 13 and 14 of the Road Traffic Act 1994

**cough**

dermot_sheehan

oh yes

road traffic acts

sorry

oceallachain

McCrack wrote: »

Often prisoners will give these on consent when asked and it's important to point out that if this is the case the Gardai can retain the samples for as long as they please...

If statutory powers are invoked the samples must be destroyed after 6 months if no prosecution is pending.

This is incorrect. Forgive me for not being able to quote from the updated statute or even give the name of same but the law requiring Gardai to destroy samples after six months was changed a few years ago. Presently, suspects have to apply for same and so the onus on Gardai to destroy them without such an application doesn't exist.

eagle_&_bear

here is the bill

Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence and DNA Database System) Bill 2010
(Number 2 of 2010)

Reloc8

Anyone else want to try and complete the statutory position (with thanks for replies thus far) ?

Tom Young

Is it Section 53 of the CJA 2007 we are missing?

Tom Young

Is it Sections 50 & 53 of the CJA 2007 we are missing?