Terrestrial Meath Oldcastle

techi

Hi Guys,
I am going to install an aerial in Oldcastle, Co. Meath.

A friend purchased an aerial on my behalf however upon speaking to sales guy he ended up getting equipment slightly different from what I had asked, as he was told what he was being given would be 100% fine. I however doubt this on what I have read to date.

I asked for a group B aerial (Main big aerial with the small midway aerial which I assume is for the Irish Channels) a combiner/amp unit for the main aerial and midway I already had a psu from times past.

What I got was:

Unix 100 CD/W
Triax TA34 C/D Amp (Single unit only for main Aerial - No room for Mid Aerial)
PSU.

TA34 is Channels 48-69 / 686Mhz - 862Mhz

Now here's my problem, my mate was told all i need do is point to drogheda which i think is "claremont" and all would be well, but from the area - everyone is pointing what I believe is cairn hill.

Am I right in thinking I need the midway aerial and a different amp which will accept the unix 100 and the midway aerial.

Also am I right in thinking cairn hill is where I should be pointing.

Also am I correct in thinking the Unix 100 Aerial itself is ok?.

Just a note I am installing this for a elderly couple (Inlaws) who have been quoted €350 from a local installer. Hence why I am trying to save them some money,I have installed many sat dishes in the past but never an aerial.

John mac

not sure i can answer the questions but here is a handy map to decide which way to point.

from that i would say Cairn hill would be your best bet .
(as long as the view isnt too restricted.)

coylemj

You are correct in that a Group B aerial is appropriate for Cairn Hill (analog and digital) which is only 23 miles from Oldcastle and as it churns out 800 kW there is no way that you need an amp of any kind, unless you're distributing the signal to multiple drops in the house but even then it should be a very strong signal without an amp.

Clermont Carn is 40 miles from Oldcastle and it's only 250 kW so Cairn Hill is a no-brainer, anyone who says otherwise is a complete chancer. It sounds like your mate was sold an aerial appropriate for Clermont Carn (Group C/D) but for Oldcastle you need a Group B pointing west (283 magnetic) at Cairn Hill with horizontal polarity.

My sister lives in Mountmellick and she picks up Cairn Hill from 52 miles away, I tested the Sagem Picnic MPEG4 DTT box in her house twice and can pick up the digital channels (TV & radio) no problem, she has a grid aerial with no amp.

I can't see any 'Unix 100' aerial on the Triax website and there is no such thing as a CD/W aerial, either it's wideband or a Group, it can't be both.

That quote for installation looks a bit steep considering you are supplying all of the kit.

techi

@John mac many thanks the map speaks volumes Cairn Hill is the way to go.

@Coylemj the unix 100 im told is a 100 element aerial (means nothing to me) and from triax website it is dis-continued. This was only purchased yesterday from Armst***g, whom apparently know their stuff. I agree Cairn Hill is the way to go, I do intend splitting to 2 rooms Sitting Room/Kitchen Cable already there so it makes it a clean and easy install it that sense.

From the receipt it states Unix 100 CD / W, from sticker on aerial box it states CD. So what I need to clarify is do I need to purchase the little midway aerial I see on every other house or will this suffice for all channels inclusive of RTE etc..

Also thanks for the infor on how close the various mast's are thats as you say makes it a no brainer.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page11f.htm shows the unix 100 as
Unix 100 = 100 elements, 17 dBi gain, Front/back ratio > 27dB, Beamwidth +/- 11° (Groups A, B or CD/WB).

Cheers
Techi

coylemj

If it's a C/D aerial then you need to send it back and exchange it for a wideband or a Group B. All of the Cairn Hill analog and digital channels fall into Group B so you do not want to be paying someone to erect a Group C/D aerial. A 100 element aerial is completely OTT for your requirements and by the way it doesn't appear in the 2009 Triax catalog either so the dealer was probably clearing out obsolete stock.

I'm originally from Athlone which is further from Cairn Hill than Oldcastle and most houses seem to get by with small contract aerials pointing at Cairn Hill. Given your proximity to the transmitter, any wideband UHF aerial on the roof will pickup a good signal.

coylemj

BTW, can you clarify what it is exactly you expect to get from this exercise - why are you talking about two aerials? Are you intending to pickup UK TV? If so can you suggest which transmitter you expect to receive?

techi

The main purpose is to receive RTE1/2, TV3, TG4, UTV, BBC1/2 & Channel 4 the normal basic package, the free to air / digital freeview etc.. is just a bonus.

I am refering to two aerials because it's what i see on everyone house, Main aerial plus a smaller aerial midway down the pole.

My thoughts on this is Main Aerial gets the UK channels and the smaller Aerial midway down the pole gets the Irish channels, now maybe I'm wrong and maybe it's not needed. However if it's not needed why has every house got one.

I called the supplier and they seem to think I won't need the midway Aerial & combiner for same. I really don't know but i think they are wrong as every other house has it. That said I will call them tomorrow regarding the fact its a C/D rather than group B.

I had thought the main Aerial C/D was only for the UK stations and the midway was the Group B section but from what you have told me that would seem incorrect.

Cheers
Techi

coylemj

You'll get the Irish channels with a wideband UHF aerial pointing west. If you were far away from the transmitter you'd be better to go for a Group B but given that you're relatively close to Cairn Hill you needn't worry about it.

The UK channels are a different story, what transmitter do you expect to receive from and who told you that a C/D aerial is the one to go for? Neither Brougher Mountain or Divis are C/D, both of them are Group A. Tell us which direction the neighbours 'main' aerials are pointing.

techi

@Coylemj

As per discussion I have replaced the Unix 100 C/D with a Hirshmann Fesa 817 N 48 Group B, Channels 21-48. I am still told by supplier that there is no need for the mid aerial 10 element. At this stage I'm just lost and regretting ever offering to do this. Not knowing exactly what I'm talking about and I have no faith in the supplier.

If I install this and point to Cairn Hill will it work for all Irish and the BBC's etc... analogue and digital.

sesswhat

techi wrote: »

@Coylemj

As per discussion I have replaced the Unix 100 C/D with a Hirshmann Fesa 817 N 48 Group B, Channels 21-48. I am still told by supplier that there is no need for the mid aerial 10 element. At this stage I'm just lost and regretting ever offering to do this. Not knowing exactly what I'm talking about and I have no faith in the supplier.

If I install this and point to Cairn Hill will it work for all Irish and the BBC's etc... analogue and digital.

You're not going to get any UK channels from the direction of Cairn Hill.

I think at this stage you need to approach one of the neighbours and find out exactly what they are getting with the arrangement you describe.

It would make sense that they are getting the UK channels with the big aerial, but this may only be analogue. The smaller aerial you describe may get Irish analogue, and digital with the right receiver, from Cairn Hill.

On the other hand, depending on a favourable location, a single wideband aerial could possibly receive both Irish digital from Clermont Carn and UK analogue from somewhere like Kilkeel.

I notice a local installer advertises UK Freeview installations but gives no details, but it may be possible in the area.

techi

It would make sense that they are getting the UK channels with the big aerial, but this may only be analogue. The smaller aerial you describe may get Irish analogue, and digital with the right receiver, from Cairn Hill

Neighbours are receiving analogue, Uk stations "large aerial" pointing towards enniskillen and smaller aerial pointing towards longford "Cairn Hill". Problem is it's a friend who collected/exchanged aerial from supplier and can to be fair only take supplier at his word. I called yet again to supplier and spoke to individual who dealt with my friend and the reason given for only supplying 1 aerial was, "sure its sucha good aerial point it towards enniskillen and it should be fine for irish channels also". Here I am ready to shout but whats the point ok I know I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject but these guy's are selling this stuff.

Which most likely means a third trip to get 10 element and combiner, but it will have to wait until I'm off nights to do it myself.

Maybe I will strap a coat hanger to pole for the Irish channels

sesswhat

In that case you may be aiming for UK Freeview from Brougher Mountain.

If it picks up the RTEs from somewhere else as well it will be an unexpected bonus but you never know.

Good luck

coylemj

OP, you didn't do a great job outlining exactly what it is you are aiming to achieve with this exercise, you didn't mention UK channels until your third post.

If the neighbours have aerials pointing at Enniskillen then they are picking up Brougher Mountain which is broadcasting Group A channels on analog and Group A is also what you need for Freeview (UK DTT). So I'm afraid you'll have to go back with that Group B aerial and get it changed. That is the 'big' aerial that you'll need, the transmitter is 46 miles away.

The advice still stands for Cairn Hill, that's a Group B but a much smaller aerial will suffice. Both aerials need to be mounted with horizontal polarity.

It's possible that the 'big' aerial will also pickup a sufficiently strong signal from Cairn Hill but a small Group B aerial shouldn't add much to the cost and when RTE start broadcasting HD you'll be better off with the right group aerial pointing directly at the transmitter.

techi

Ok just to be 100% clear in what I need.

Main Aerial: Group "A" - pointing to Brougher Mountain for UK Analogue/Digital Channels.

Midway/Second Aerial: Group "B" (10 element? - Much smaller) - Pointing to Cairn Hill for Irish channels Analogue/Digital.

Masthead Amp to cover above groups & Combiner Unit for both Aerials and of course a PSU which I have.

Hopefully I have that all correct.

Thanks for bearing with the Novice guys

coylemj

Correct on the aerial types. I'm not an expert on masthead amps but I would have said that you should not amplify the Cairn Hill signal since it will be more than powerful enough so if it's possible to amplify the Brougher Mountain signal and then merge it with the (unamplified) signal from Cairn Hill then I say that's the way to go.

CH is 23 miles away and is 800 kW, BM is 46 miles away and is 100 kW. Based on the signal strength being proportional to the square of the distance, the signal you'll be getting from CH will be 32 times the power of the signal from BM.

Both aerials needs to be mounted with horizontal polarity, BM from Oldcastle is 350 degrees and Cairn Hill is 280 - both magnetic bearings.

techi

Saga continues

Supplier has Group "A" 100 element instock which is fine.
Amp & Combiner instock - looking good so far.

wait for it.............

Group "B" 10 element (Smaller Aerial) only sold in boxes of 10 and will not split a box

Will have to find another supplier - that said I would like to thank everyone for their input. The one huge benefit is I have learned a lot and hopefully can pass it on to others.

Cheers

mickysmol

Hi all

Got freeview tv lately, live in virginia co cavan. My aerial is currently pointing towards cairn hill. was wondering, should i get a MPEG 4 Box or change the direction of the aerial and point it towards the Brougher Mountain Transmitter and pray to get freeview? thanks

techi

@mickysmol pointing towards Brougher Mountain will give you UK freeview assuming you have the right Aerial (Group A) I'm not to far away for virginia and it works 100%.

Note: This is a sperate Aerial from whats discussed in thread

coylemj

techi wrote: »

Saga continues


Group "B" 10 element (Smaller Aerial) only sold in boxes of 10 and will not split a box

Techi, this one will do the biz, go for it or failing that, any wideband UHF aerial, you're only 23 miles from an 800 kW transmitter, the most powerful in the country. I'm from Athlone and when I go home I can see hundreds of contract aerials all over the town pointing to Longford and they're probably all wideband.

http://tvtrade.ie/show/57,UHF-Contract-aerial-Group-B-Yellow

lucernarian

If the signal from Cairn hill is strong enough, you might manage reception through the Group A aerial anyway!

I can watch usually watchable Cairn Hill and receive DTT on a vertical grid pointing at almost a right angle to it. Over 60 miles away! It's a dark art at times.

If you wanted, you could set it up as is, and add a cheaper grid or 10 element aerial later if the reception was less than perfect.

Lpfsox

techi wrote: »

@mickysmol pointing towards Brougher Mountain will give you UK freeview assuming you have the right Aerial (Group A) I'm not to far away for virginia and it works 100%.

Note: This is a sperate Aerial from whats discussed in thread

Hi techi/mickysmol

I'm in Virginia too (the Drumlins) and had an arial installed a while back pointing at Cairn Hill for DTT. I was told by the installer that I couldn't get a UK Freeview signal from Brougher because there was a mountain in the way.

Do you know of a local installer who would come and check out my arial and let me know if it is possible to get a UK signal from it? I don't know too many of the technical details; but it's a big Hirschman horizontal arial, with a smaller arial (at least that's what it looks like) about half way up the mast. I had it installed about a year ago by an installer from Oldcastle.

Any replies would be appreciated, thanks

techi

@Lpfsox

Irish DTT is testing at the minute, however it requires an mpeg4 receiver so shortly with your current setup you will have that service.

As for someone to check, best option is just connect a UK freeview box and see what the signal level is. I may have a spare one you could borrow for testing test with, If test works then they are very cheap to purchase.

If interested send me a PM with contact details, I pass virginia on route to work.

I am 10 minutes from virginia just outside ballyjamesduff and I have UK freeview.

Cheers

techi

@Coylemj.

Well my saga continues, which I will get back to on friday and hope to have sorted.

New setup: Unix 100 "A" (Huge aerial - 100 Element - Overkill)
Got 10 element Group "B" works 100% on Irish channels
The gits at Armst**** electronics gave my mate a splitter instead of a combiner, so I need to change that to combine Group A & B aerials.

Pole I have was only 4 foot in height so was somewhat restricted in movement as aerial on side of house and although I had UK channels signal quality was not there about 80% on TV (Snowy). I now have new pole 15 foot where I will be able to direct aerial correctly complete installation as it should be..

So until friday, I will report back - I will take some detailed photos to help others.


Cheers
Techi

Lpfsox

=techi]
@Lpfsox

Irish DTT is testing at the minute, however it requires an mpeg4 receiver so shortly with your current setup you will have that service.

As for someone to check, best option is just connect a UK freeview box and see what the signal level is. I may have a spare one you could borrow for testing test with, If test works then they are very cheap to purchase.

If interested send me a PM with contact details, I pass virginia on route to work.

I am 10 minutes from virginia just outside ballyjamesduff and I have UK freeview.

Cheers

Hey techi

thanks for your reply - I've already got Irish DTT, but am wondering if the aerial were moved could I get a UK freeview signal. Don't want to risk hiring someone to move it without an idea that a signal may be possible!!

Have sent you a PM anyway