Private Dealer - Selling a lot of cars.

legendz

I'm on the look out for a new car. I've noticed a private dealer having a car going at a good price.
Initially I expected it to be a private owner selling off once car. The seller now did not do anything for me to believe that, just took it as the norm.

I googled his mobile number anyways and have seen more car having being solded, by cached pages and two more he is currently selling.

From the pictures of the car I liked put up online, I can see other cars in the background. On a picture put up on a different car, I can see the one I liked in the background. Seems that all the cars are in some car park or fenced off place.

Is it normal/common for someone to be selling off many cars privately like this?

Being a private sale, I know there is no warranty etc.

Do ye thing something sounds dodgy.. or does everything seem ok with that?

triple-M

would you have a link to the car in question that way people can give a better opinion on it

Barr

Its probably someone doing it on the side , unlikely to be anymore sinister than that.

Big Nasty

Depends really what site they're on or how big the dealers is. If they're a small dealer it may not be cost effective for them to have a dealer account with the likes of Carzone or CBG. Also, even if they're an average sized Indy dealer specialising in bargain basement stock they may only use the likes of Done Deal to put cars up one by one. There is a dealer facility on Done Deal but out of 19k cars advertised only 1k are listed as trade, which would prove that dealers using this site tend to put up cars individually and not under a dealer account. As with any car from any dealer, bring along an Indy mechanic to check the car out, check service history if available (don't expect much history on bargain basement stuff) and do a HPI check.

legendz

triple-M wrote: »

would you have a link to the car in question that way people can give a better opinion on it

I appreciate that but I don't want to be drawing too much attention to it.

legendz

Barr wrote: »

Its probably someone doing it on the side , unlikely to be anymore sinister than that.

Possibly, hope so, he's a few good deals.

legendz

I guess it is a small dealer. Probably having dealth with 6-8 cars in the last 3 months.
From the pics, there are about ten cars in the background, at least one currently on sale. From a sign the pics seem to be taken in the car park of a furniture company.
It is the area as well when I rang where he said I could see the car.

Ronanom

BEWARE

I've heard these type of people sell CLOCKED cars or even sell two separate cars welded together!

Be Careful.
Buyer Beware

Big Nasty

Ronanom wrote: »

BEWARE

I've heard these type of people sell CLOCKED cars or even sell two separate cars welded together!

Be Careful.
Buyer Beware

At this stage I would almost have as much faith in the Longmiler dealers as I would for most established franchised dealer. As I said earlier:

As with any car from any dealer, bring along an Indy mechanic to check the car out, check service history if available (don't expect much history on bargain basement stuff) and do a HPI check.

-Chris-

You can't be a private seller and sell many cars per year - once you go above a certain number (that's in the single digits iirc) you're considered a trader and your responsibilities change.

If someone who the law, the consumer agencies or the Revenue consider a to be a trader tries to sell you a car as a private individual, they're trying rob you of your consumer rights. I'd have no patience for someone who tried to do that to me.

Big J

+1

I think the NCA define a dealer as anyone selling more than 4-5 cars per year.

legendz

Cars that have been sold include: Alfa Romeo, Audi, BMW, Ford, Peogeot, Mazda, Toyota and Opel.
Can find details for all these cars going back the last few months. Most of the pages are cached, so I'm guessing a good trade is being done in selling the cars.
We're talking of about a dozen cars in 3 months.

-Chris-

Well then you deserve your full consumer rights, including any warranties etc.

legendz

-Chris- wrote: »

Well then you deserve your full consumer rights, including any warranties etc.

It's not illegal what's going on is it?
I'd imagine any concerns would have been highlighted by now?

-Chris-

Contact the National Consumer Agency and see what they say.

Concerns have been highlighted, you just don't seem to have read them.

legendz

I can't see what contacting the NCA will achieve.
If he's selling a few cars, I've no problems with that.

What I'd like to know, being a complete novice to these things, is it normal for a person to be selling about 10 cars privately over 3-4 months?

Mr Benevolent

legendz wrote: »

I can't see what contacting the NCA will achieve.
If he's selling a few cars, I've no problems with that.

What I'd like to know, being a complete novice to these things, is it normal for a person to be selling about 10 cars privately over 3-4 months?

Look, if he's selling 10 cars privately then he is in breach of the law. Under the law he is a dealer and must provide the minimum warranty along with other guarantees under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act.

Why don't you have a problem with him acting illegally?

Cookie_Monster

Confab wrote: »

Why don't you have a problem with him acting illegally?

Probably cos the car is cheap.

You're going to miss out on warranties and guy like this do nothing but hurt the industry, giving its already deeply tarnished name another good kicking :mad:

smash

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

You're going to miss out on warranties and guy like this do nothing but hurt the industry, giving its already deeply tarnished name another good kicking :mad:

Why is this? If the cars are straight then he's hurting nobody!

-Chris-

He's hurting the OP - if he sells the car "privately" he dodges his legal responsibilities with regard to warranty etc - all the consumer protections that the OP is owed and deserves.

It's very shady practice at best.

smash

-Chris- wrote: »

if he sells the car "privately" he dodges his legal responsibilities with regard to warranty etc

Yes, but if the car is straight then this wont matter.

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Probably cos the car is cheap.

You're going to miss out on warranties and guy like this do nothing but hurt the industry, giving its already deeply tarnished name another good kicking :mad:

I agree, months back I found a discovery on donedeal.ie that was well priced, private sale, confirmed on the phone, asked was he a dealer said no. Even though a google on his mobile number yielded this, note no address or any idea where the businness is aside from Co Cork

http://www.corkcarsales.ie/index.php

Met me on side of road, did a deal, shook on it, agreed to collect the car a week later, he said no need for a deposit. Couldn't contact him all week, eventually got through on a different number, claimed he was sick all week and wasn't working on that he had sold the Disco.

Unreal, full story here if you're interested http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055643956

Be wary of guys who claim to be private sellers when they obviously are not, the Disco was also without warrenty as it was a private sale !

Unreal.

However I did buy a 12 year old Celica from a chap who was selling cars from his house, he didn't advertise, just word of mouth. A friend asked me to check out a car he was thinking of buying from the guy, while there I saw the Celica and ended up buying it. Splendid chap he was, I drove the Celica for 9 months and sold it for €750 more than what I paid. Obviously when you buy from a chaps residence there is an element of trust there.

-Chris-

steve06 wrote: »

Yes, but if the car is straight then this wont matter.

Yeah, but if you subscribe to that logic, why not presume that all goods are well made and all businesses are fair, and do away with statutory consumer rights altogether?

Tea 1000

steve06 wrote: »

Yes, but if the car is straight then this wont matter.

People need to pay Tax too. If he's not registered as a dealer, then I don't see how he can be paying tax.

smash

-Chris- wrote: »

Yeah, but if you subscribe to that logic, why not presume that all goods are well made and all businesses are fair, and do away with statutory consumer rights altogether?

buyer beware and all that... Even if the guy was registered it wouldn't make a difference. You know that yourself by now, jut look through the threads here about people buying cars and dealers not standing by a warranty!

Tea 1000 wrote: »

People need to pay Tax too. If he's not registered as a dealer, then I don't see how he can be paying tax.

Yea, the same way you pay a plumber, electrician or independent mechanic with cash - you think they'd put that through the books? :rolleyes:

steve06

steve06 wrote: »

Yea, the same way you pay a plumber, electrician or independent mechanic with cash - you think they'd put that through the books? :rolleyes:

Independent mechanics, plumbers, sparks etc receive a huge percentage of their income in cash. They have to put some / most through the books. There is also a huge difference in reducing your tax liability and paying no tax.

smash

RoverJames wrote: »

Independent mechanics, plumbers, sparks etc receive a huge percentage of their income in cash. They have to put some / most through the books. There is also a huge difference in reducing your tax liability and paying no tax.

Yea sure... I know a guard who does plumbing in his spare time and pays no tax on that. I know a mechanic who works full time for a dealership and then services cars in his garage at home and pays no tax on that... I can go on!

I'm on about full time folks, not lads doing nixers

smash

RoverJames wrote: »

I'm on about full time folks, not lads doing nixers

So what if this guy has a full time job and is selling cars as a nixer then?

I know of a used car sales manager in a large Dublin garage who sells traded in cars from his house that the dealership wont sell...

Cookie_Monster

steve06 wrote: »

Yea sure... I know a guard who does plumbing in his spare time and pays no tax on that. I know a mechanic who works full time for a dealership and then services cars in his garage at home and pays no tax on that... I can go on!

would don't you report them for tax fraud so?

smash

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

would don't you report them for tax fraud so?

why would I? It's hard enough trying to live in Ireland at the moment....

steve06

steve06 wrote: »

So what if this guy has a full time job and is selling cars as a nixer then?
..

I thought from your post that you were suggestig that full time independent mechanics, sparks, plumbers etc pocket all money from cash jobs

A guard doing plumbling on the side and not paying tax is braking the law, so too the mechanic working from home in the evenings. So too someone selling cars on the side. Unless they only sell 5 or 6 a year and they are their own private car, in which case that is perfectly legal regardless of how much money they make on them

steve06

steve06 wrote: »

why would I? It's hard enough trying to live in Ireland at the moment....

How do you know they are not declaring the income ?:)

smash

RoverJames wrote: »

I thought from your post that you were suggestig that full time independent mechanics, sparks, plumbers etc pocket all money from cash jobs

No, but they'd pocket a percentage.

RoverJames wrote: »

A guard doing plumbling on the side and not paying tax is braking the law, so too the mechanic working from home in the evenings. So too someone selling cars on the side.

I'm not denying that, but lets face it... would you rather pay a garage a few hundred for a service, or pay a mechanic to do it in his shed for 50% of the cost?

RoverJames wrote: »

How do you know they are not declaring the income ?:)

Because I know them...

Scruff

steve06 wrote: »

buyer beware and all that... Even if the guy was registered it wouldn't make a difference. You know that yourself by now, jut look through the threads here about people buying cars and dealers not standing by a warranty!

This recent ruling may change that http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2010/0106/1224261723440.html

Yea, the same way you pay a plumber, electrician or independent mechanic with cash - you think they'd put that through the books? :rolleyes:

At least they will have to put some of it through the books. Some tax is better than no tax and these people will have to be vat registered as sole traders so they can be audited and caught for undeclared income. A private seller who really is a dealer runs very little risk of it.

why would I? It's hard enough trying to live in Ireland at the moment....

Do you also think social welfare cheats should be let away with it too? Following that logic you would seem to be fine with that too. Are you actually a PAYE payer yerself?

iamskippy

legendz wrote: »

Cars that have been sold include: Alfa Romeo, Audi, BMW, Ford, Peogeot, Mazda, Toyota and Opel.
Can find details for all these cars going back the last few months. Most of the pages are cached, so I'm guessing a good trade is being done in selling the cars.
We're talking of about a dozen cars in 3 months.

probably a dealer posing as a private seller to get out of owing you a warranty. avoid

iamskippy

RoverJames wrote: »

Met me on side of road

Beware anyone who suggests meeting on road/in car park etc.you should always insist on going to the sellers home. Then you can seen if there are other cars for sale.One guy with a yard full of cars had claimed to be private and told me i sell a few cars when i ask. yeah right, i was gone would not buy from him

steve06

steve06 wrote: »

I'm not denying that, but lets face it... would you rather pay a garage a few hundred for a service, or pay a mechanic to do it in his shed for 50% of the cost?

I'd do it myself for the price of a gallon of oil, oil filter, plugs, fuel filter and air filter

smash

Scruff wrote: »

Do you also think social welfare cheats should be let away with it too? Following that logic you would seem to be fine with that too.

That's totally different, they're taking money from the state. Someone that doesn't pay tax on a percentage of their earnings isn't taking money from they state, they just not giving money to the state.

Scruff wrote: »

Are you actually a PAYE payer yerself?

Not that it's any of your business but yes I am!

Cookie_Monster

steve06 wrote: »

That's totally different, they're taking money from the state. Someone that doesn't pay tax on a percentage of their earnings isn't taking money from they state, they just not giving money to the state.

They are taking money from the state in effect. And more importantly they are taking money form you and me as taxes have had to rise to cover falling tax revenues due in part to people like this

smash

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

They are taking money from the state in effect. And more importantly they are taking money form you and me as taxes have had to rise to cover falling tax revenues due in part to people like this

You can't take something from someone if they never had it in the first place!

JCDUB

iamskippy wrote: »

you should always insist on going to the sellers home.

Fook that. I sold a car recently and as I had already bought my new car and the one I was selling was a "spare" I wouldn't meet anybody at my house.

All they have to do is come back when there is only the car being sold in the driveway and they know you're out. In they come, keys yoinked and car gone.

Will also be selling a motorbike in the future and definitely not a hope of me telling somebody where it is stored.

On topic, I don't see any difficulties with buying from a small independent chap who may be doing it as a nixer. If the car is straight then no problem.

As regards the tax issue, I know for a fact of main dealers selling old trade-ins for cash to traders. Not a hope every one of those transactions is recorded for the tax man, especially when the value is low and the trade-in doesn't have to be included in the sales documentation.