Can an employer do this?

ImARebel

Hi there,
Checking this out for a family member
They have been told they are getting a 20% paycut and it's going to be backdated 2 months - can they really do this? adjust your next month's paycheck and deduct the backdated amount too?
And on top of this they are switching from weekly to monthly payments and they will be paid one week's wages at the start of feb and then they will not receive another payment until March where they will then get their first monthly pay cheque
Surely some sort of easing in should be done, how are you supposed to live on one week's money for 3 weeks?
Any help advice would be really be appreciated, they are tearing their hair out
Also if you need more info please don't hesitiate to ask -but this is the info I got

Oh and edited to say they have no union

wmpdd3

a) join a union.

In relation to the back dated pay cut there might be a problem with this.

You could argue against it under this act:

http://www.erb.ie/eng/erb_employers_resource_bureau/sections/employment_legislation/payment_of_wages_act

That since payment for work has been agreed and work has been delivered, then any change in this payment is an unauthorized deduction.

As they have no union I doubt they have a contract of outlining terms of employment. If they do, employees should be consulted with before changes are made.

If they don't it's time to contact NERA or Citizen's Advice Bureau for advice.

Basically be prepared for the employer to threaten redundancy if they don't accept the new conditions.

In relation to the new pay dates, there is not much they can do here. It's not illegal. It's may contravene a contract if they have one but that's about it.

Staff could ask if there will be a 'sub' system for workers in distress.

Can you say what sector?

How many employees affected, is it every employee?

fl4pj4ck

the paycuts needs to be brought as an amendment to the current contract. one can agree with it or not (effectively break the contract)

as for the cuts going back two months I am pretty sure this cannot be done, as it should be an "unauthorized deduction" as the work has been delivered already

ImARebel

Thanks guys.
Whatever about the pay cut (they are accepting that) it's the back dating of it that they think is highly unfair and I didn't think was allowed - so I said I'd stick a post up here. As you say work delivered and already paid for etc
This is just an ordinary company and my family member works in the financial department, it's every employee affected, all are getting a paycut, being backdated and the new terms of payment from weekly to monthly
em and without sounding thick can anyone just join a union? I know nurses have theirs, teachers, places like Tesco, Musgraves all would have unions etc but this is your bog standard company, can you just create a union? Sorry I work in the private sector myself and was never in a union so I know nothing about them.
Thanks going to email them now with the info so far, much obliged

LimeFruitGum

The company might back down if employees send a solicitor's letter challenging this. If there's no union or appointed employee representation, then at least a solicitor may be able to step in.
Of course, this all depends on whether they've got stomach for the inevitable fight - not easy these days obviously.

judas1369

The whole backdating thing sounds a bit iffy at best and would be worth having it looked into further. As a previous poster mentioned dropping into your local Citizens Information Centre is probably a good starting point.
On the union issue, it is your right as a worker to join a union,it is not the preserve of the public service and the link below will take you to a page on SIPTUs website dealing with private sector workers.

http://www.siptu.ie/IndustrialSectors/PrivateSectorServices/

May not be a bad idea to look into this.
Anyway hope this can be of help.

ImARebel

See that's the other side of it isn't it?

It would be so much easier if it was black and white, ie it was definitely illegal. Rather than trying to prove it's so and the ensuing battle that's going to follow on from trying to do that. It seems like a grey area to me and loosing that fight could leave a bitter taste in everyone's mouth

Although might have a word with them, they might jump at the chance of redundancy if they could get it, they hate the place and this just makes getting up in the morning for a job they already hate, ten times harder.

cheers amigos, again all replies very much appreciated.

And then there's the paying of a solicitor, you're not going to do that on one weeks pay that's supposed to last 3

okey dokey - thanks!

jimoc

wmpdd3 wrote: »

http://www.erb.ie/eng/erb_employers_resource_bureau/sections/employment_legislation/payment_of_wages_act

from the page above :

The Act allows an employer to make the following deductions from the wages of an employee.
1) Any deduction required by law e.g. PAYE and PRSI.
2) Any deduction authorised by a term of an employees contract e.g. Pension Contributions
3) Any deduction agreed in writing e.g. Trade Union Subscriptions or VHI Premia.

and

The Act provides for a right of complaint to a Rights Commissioner for any employee who has had an unlawful deduction made from wages. There is a right of appeal for the employer and employee to the Employment Appeals Tribunal.

so basically, anything listed above can be taken from your wages, anything not listed above is an unlawful deduction and can be appealed.

Since it is highly unlikely that you have agreed in writing to have a deduction made from your wages for the past 2 months, then this will be unlawful.

If however the management has gotten everyone to sign a piece of paper saying that your wages are going to be cut by 20% and this cut is backdated 2 months, then it is a lawful deduction under point 3 above.

seamus

They don't need a union. They cannot backdate pay cuts. They cannot even implement pay cuts without each individual employee's agreement.

I would tell your family member to start looking at the jobs market. You have a company who is:

- Changing their payment schedule to avoid paying their payroll for 3 weeks
- Attempting to reduce their payroll costs by 60% for one month

This is a company who has run out of cash and they are trying their damnedest to hold onto what they have. They're not planning for the long-term health of the company, they're trying to avoid running out of cash next week. Unless something changes drastically, the company will be gone by the end of March.

Magnet

Good luck with this Ive no employee advice but what struck me reading that was moving from weekly to monthly..
Example:
If you`re getting €400 per week X 52 weeks = €20800
Monthly that would be €1733.33
So if it been changed to monthly make sure the calculations add up!
If you`re getting €1600 monthly then that`s an extra cut...
Annually getting €19200 That would be 4 weeks deduction
Sorry if thats longwinded but it happens

Mrs OBumble

My sympathies etc re the situation: I agree with the poster who reckons the company will be gone by March. Your relation should hang in if they want redundancy from the government - or if they can find another job before then, take it.



[QUOTE=ImARebel;64003372.... how are you supposed to live on one week's money for 3 weeks?[/QUOTE]

But this comment concerns me. The answer is very obviously savings. If your relative cannot find a job, then when the company does fold, s/he will need to apply for the dole. There will be a delay in paying this, and there will be a delay in even getting the dole-you-get-before-you-get-the-dole via the community welfare people. This delay may well be more than three weeks.

As a general rule, Just in case things go wrong, everyone should have enough cash in the bank, credit union, whereever to live on for a few weeks at least. I used to think six weeks was enough, these days, I think you should aim for 12. (Not 12 weeks salary, just 12 weeks living money.)

How Strange

seamus wrote: »

You have a company who is:

- Changing their payment schedule to avoid paying their payroll for 3 weeks
- Attempting to reduce their payroll costs by 60% for one month

This is a company who has run out of cash

That's exactly what I thought when I read this.

If there is a cashflow crisis they reduce their wages bill as low as possible (enforcing backdated pay cuts) and then not have a wages bill for a month.

If it were me I'd be seriously worried that I wouldn't get paid anything in March