O'Gara and Magners League *Read Mod Note post no.3*

Tim Robbins

Some comments from O'Gara about the ML

O'Gara wrote:

“How I broke down my season was, the first three games I viewed as warm-up games. They were Celtic League games. Maybe I didn’t give them the respect they deserved – but they were my first three games. I wasn’t putting myself under any pressure. I had 12 weeks off, I didn’t do much kicking. I felt I didn’t need to.

“You’re talking about a five-game period, and the most pleasing thing for me was that when the pressure was on against Northampton away I kicked very well.

“Obviously I didn’t kick very well against Treviso, but there wasn’t any great pressure in that game. But there was in the two Perpignan games, and I kicked 100 per cent for Ireland, so that was always the most pleasing thing.

“I’m constantly trying out things,” he continued. “Maybe Magners League games aren’t the arena for trying out things. It probably might not please some people, but I’m not too bothered.”

Are we allowed discuss this?

danthefan

Handy excuses for terrible form. Is he insinuating he wasn't arsed about the Leinster game after the SF? Very poor comments anyway imo, how the hell is the league ever going to be recognised along side the GP and T14 if prominent players are slagging it off and not taking marquee fixtures seriously?

toomevara

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Are we allowed discuss this?

yep, just as long as it's kept civil (no personal insults) and provincial/tribal muppetry doesn't rear its head. Thread will be locked if this happens and there will be zero tolerance towards buffoonery/eejitry.

anonymous_joe

I'd love to know if he's alone in those opinions.

I know this board (amongst others) wasn't exactly full of happy Munster fans when they were limping along at the start of the season. I'd wonder if the indifference happened after the losses or before.

I'd also wonder what the fcuk the coach is playing out. There's no way your players should be coming out and going 'yeah, I don't give a fcuk, like.' Talk about bad squad discipline. Even more so if it's true. Teams now know that when playing Munster in the ML, give it to O'Gara, because he doesn't care.

Tim Robbins

I think he's very arrogant. It's not the first time he's turned his nose up at ML games. I don't think that's fair to a lot of players, staff, sponsors and most of all fans who go to these games. Why should someone pay to watch something a player is admitting they don't take seriously? Would an AIL player do that? Rugby should be about 100% commitment, passion and intensity. There's no friendlies. It doesn't matter if its H cup or J4. It disappoints me to read these comments.

I hate to go for cheap shots, but if there's anything he should be practising, it's his tackling. His kicking is usually of a very high standard bar the odd blips which happen to everyone.

Size=everything

To be honest it sounds like he is making excuses for his poor form.

Originally Posted by O'Gara
“How I broke down my season was, the first three games I viewed as warm-up games. They were Celtic League games. Maybe I didn’t give them the respect they deserved – but they were my first three games. I wasn’t putting myself under any pressure. I had 12 weeks off, I didn’t do much kicking. I felt I didn’t need to.

Basically saying : It's ok that I played badly, I didn't take the games seriously. Also I didn't practice my kicking as I felt that I was too good.

ROG is making excuses for his shocking form. I can't imagine any professional player going 3 months without practicing their kicking to the standard required. Disgraceful.

“You’re talking about a five-game period, and the most pleasing thing for me was that when the pressure was on against Northampton away I kicked very well.

Kicking is about consistency. The fact was he didn't put in the effort required and it was only when Northampton came around that O'Gara began to realise that his place wasn't so assured. To be honest with an attitude like that I'm glad a more eager player such as Sexton got the chance for ireland.

“Obviously I didn’t kick very well against Treviso, but there wasn’t any great pressure in that game.

Surely that would make it easier to kick ROG? More excuses.

But there was in the two Perpignan games, and I kicked 100 per cent for Ireland, so that was always the most pleasing thing.

Well done O'Gara for converting 4 conversions under the post.


O'Gara replied with a straightforward fifth-minute penalty after the Wallabies were penalised for offside after a knock-on.

Australia were then pulled up for an offence at the line-out and O'Gara converted a penalty from in front of the posts to reduce Ireland's deficit to a point.

Bowe crossing the line under the posts after a fine Irish move which started with a charge by prop Cian Healy. O'Gara added the simple conversion to level the scores.

With time running out, O'Driscoll - as on so many occasions in the past - proved Ireland's saviour as he caught Australia's defence napping to cruise through under the posts without a finger being laid on him. It had been a quiet game for O'Driscoll but he sprung to life just at the right time, to allow O'Gara to level the scores with the conversion.

Lets just ignore the


O'Gara's pass put the centre under pressure and he spilled the ball to give Mitchell a stroll to the line for the opening try in the second minute.

And the missed tackle leading to Elsom's try eh?

“I’m constantly trying out things,” he continued. “Maybe Magners League games aren’t the arena for trying out things. It probably might not please some people, but I’m not too bothered.”

More excuses. If your not bothered then why bring it up?





I am extremely disappointed in how ROG has handled himself tbh.

Sangre

He really makes it hard for people to like him.

Ciaran-Irl

How arrogant can he be? People pay good money to go to these games, and he doesn't give a toss, is it?

Size=everything

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I'd also wonder what the fcuk the coach is playing out. There's no way your players should be coming out and going 'yeah, I don't give a fcuk, like.' Talk about bad squad discipline. Even more so if it's true. Teams now know that when playing Munster in the ML, give it to O'Gara, because he doesn't care.

Agreed. What kind of attitude is that sending out to the younger players at Munster?
I can't imagine McGahan is happy with those sort of comments. And to think it was not long ago that people were calling for him to captain Ireland?

He didn't seem too indifferent when Munster won the ML last year..
This whole interview sounds of sour grapes and excuses from a player coming to terms with losing his place in the Irish set up and actually receiving criticisms from the irish media for probably the first time in his carrer.

Tim Robbins

Sangre wrote: »

He really makes it hard for people to like him.

I remember growing up and regularly watching Ireland getting hammered. It amazed me that teams like NZ would still take as seriously as if we were really good and respected us that and played us that way.

Amazotheamazing

How is anyone surprised by this, it's been clear for years the players don't rate the joke that is the Magner's league.

Size=everything

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

How is anyone surprised by this, it's been clear for years the players don't rate the joke that is the Magner's league.

Examples? It seems to me only O'Gara comes out with these sort of statements.


This all comes down to O'Gara being afraid he hasn't done enough to displace Sexton for the 6 Nations games due to his ML form. Two decent games in the HC aren't going to overrule 10 poor ones in the ML so now he is making excuses.

anonymous_joe

Size=everything wrote: »

Agreed. What kind of attitude is that sending out to the younger players at Munster?
I can't imagine McGahan is happy with those sort of comments. And to think it was not long ago that people were calling for him to captain Ireland?

He didn't seem too indifferent when Munster won the ML last year..
This whole interview sounds of sour grapes and excuses from a player coming to terms with losing his place in the Irish set up and actually receiving criticisms from the irish media for probably the first time in his carrer.

Ah I'd say a lot of it is down to out-half arrogance. Out-halves tend to be prícks at the best of times. It's an important trait. You need to be supremely self-confident to do that job.

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

How is anyone surprised by this, it's been clear for years the players don't rate the joke that is the Magner's league.

I dunno really. Without the Magners League the Irish teams would be fcuked.

And I certainly wouldn't accuse a lot of Munster's players of indifference.

Moreover, I'd look at it this way. For both Leinster and Munster, there's a habit of not playing your best players in every ML game. We rest O'Driscoll a lot, you lot rest O'Connell a lot. But the lads who do play aren't exactly showing indifference.

And when you're having the season O'Gara had, his performances since about... ooh... May 2009 have been shíte. He had a dreadful Lions tour, and an awful start to the season. His attitude in that context is appalling. Not out of some moral thing or anything, from a purely selfish perspective, he should want to be playing as well as he can. He's meant to be one of the NH's best out-halves after all. McGahan should have dropped him for Warwick, Manning or whoever's playing 10 for Munchin's if he's in dire form and still not trying to excel.

Size=everything

A real slap in the face to the likes of Mick O'Driscoll as well.

Fizman

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

How is anyone surprised by this, it's been clear for years the players don't rate the joke that is the Magner's league.

Just out of interest......... if you had your way and the ML was abolished tomorrow, what would you change/introduce?

Theta

I was told by a top end provincial player to my face that the ML league means nothing, its the Heino Cup they are all after.

chris85

Poor attitude by O'Gara. Dont want him playing for Ireland if he goes on about games that do mean something to the fans.

Sexton for the 10 jersey for Ireland.

Size=everything

Theta wrote: »

I was told by a top end provincial player to my face that the ML league means nothing, its the Heino Cup they are all after.

Was that top end player O'Gara by any chance?

Knowing some players that play in the ML the opinions I have heard are much different to O'Gara's and your supposed top end source. The guys I know don't drink at all with a ML game coming up and generally go home before the evening to relax and get in the right frame of mind for the game the next day. Seem to me to be taking it very seriously anyway.

topper75

If Ticketmaster were as blasé about charging my debit card, I could accept it.

CatFromHue

If i remember correctly he mentioned in his book about munster not always being "up" for magners league games.

when he says "im not bothered" i think its to do with people not being pleased with his idea of trying things out in the magners league not that he is not bothered about the magners league.

I think there was some pressure for the Treviso game too!

Size=everything

All I will say is O'Gara might want to start taking the ML more seriously as 2 decent games in the HC aren't going to ensure his place in the Ireland 22 if Sexton comes back from injury in the same form and Humphries continues his spell.

Also I'd love to see how 'bothered' O'Gara would be if he was dropped from the 'warm up' games of the ML.

Amazotheamazing

Fizman wrote: »

Just out of interest......... if you had your way and the ML was abolished tomorrow, what would you change/introduce?

The biggest problem with the ML is it's simply not competitive, strong teams can enter weakened teams in the safe knowledge that they'll still be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. With this new play-off system in place, a team like Munster can finish fourth and still have a decent chance of winning. There's also no fear of relegation so once you can't finish in the top four, you're season is over.

Hopefully the arrival of the Italians will bring two strong teams that can crowd out some of the complacency, but I doubt it.

The league is so flawed that there's nothing you can do with it, imo. There's not enough teams to make it anyway really good.

Tim Robbins

Size=everything wrote: »

All I will say is O'Gara might want to start taking the ML more seriously as 2 decent games in the HC aren't going to ensure his place in the Ireland 22 if Sexton comes back from injury in the same form and Humphries continues his spell.

Also I'd love to see how 'bothered' O'Gara would be if he was dropped from the 'warm up' games of the ML.

If George Clancy said that since he was an international ref he couldn't take ML seriously - people would have a field day. He's reffing AIL games and taking them as seriously as every game he refs. As does Mr. Rolland and Mr. Lewis.

The hole point of sport (whatever the level) is you take it seriously or you don't show up.

Waste someone else's time and money.

anonymous_joe

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The biggest problem with the ML is it's simply not competitive, strong teams can enter weakened teams in the safe knowledge that they'll still be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. With this new play-off system in place, a team like Munster can finish fourth and still have a decent chance of winning. There's also no fear of relegation so once you can't finish in the top four, you're season is over.

Hopefully the arrival of the Italians will bring two strong teams that can crowd out some of the complacency, but I doubt it.

The league is so flawed that there's nothing you can do with it, imo. There's not enough teams to make it anyway really good.

The only other option'd be to enter the Guinness Premiership. Only the Welsh and Scots could do that anyway. And that competition while popular is based on awful stodgy rugby.

The real problem with the ML is the Welsh. If Cardiff Blues can have the second most Lions on tour, then being second from bottom in the ML is a disgrace.

copacetic

Not sure why people are getting upset, O'Gara is just saying what all the players think. ML isn't as important as HC.

It's also what the media and fans think, Cup gets much bigger coverage from media and better crowds.

It's always going to be like that with French and English clubs involved. This thread reads like an excuse to have a go at O'Gara to me and I don't particularly like the guy. Having a go at him for being honest isn't fair imo.

He could just have easily said he was using the HC games to get in shape for the 6 nations.

Amazotheamazing

Tim Robbins wrote: »

If George Clancy said that since he was an international ref he couldn't take ML seriously - people would have a field day. He's reffing AIL games and taking them as seriously as every game he refs. As does Mr. Rolland and Mr. Lewis.

The hole point of sport (whatever the level) is you take it seriously or you don't show up.

Waste someone else's time and money.

Clearly not, O'Gara's won two HEC's, two leagues, a few Triple Crowns and a Grand Slam by knowing what's worth taking seriously and what's worth viewing as a practice match. In fact, I would say every player who makes it to the top picks his battles, you can't peak for every game of the season.

Trojan

Original source for the OP.

I've read his book as well as this article. The guy disgusts me. I respect his skill, particularly kicking, but he's the only player in world rugby I wouldn't buy a pint for.

Amazotheamazing

anonymous_joe wrote: »

The only other option'd be to enter the Guinness Premiership. Only the Welsh and Scots could do that anyway. And that competition while popular is based on awful stodgy rugby.

The real problem with the ML is the Welsh. If Cardiff Blues can have the second most Lions on tour, then being second from bottom in the ML is a disgrace.

Or completely review the province/region/district sides. It's crazy a city the size of Dublin has the same number of teams as a town the size of Galway. Same is repeated around the ML. There's very good historical reasons for the sides we currently have, but if you were redesigning celtic rugby from scratch, would you do things the same?

Theta

Size=everything wrote: »

Was that top end player O'Gara by any chance?

Knowing some players that play in the ML the opinions I have heard are much different to O'Gara's and your supposed top end source. The guys I know don't drink at all with a ML game coming up and generally go home before the evening to relax and get in the right frame of mind for the game the next day. Seem to me to be taking it very seriously anyway.

Nope wasn't him!

thomond2006

Very disappointed by his comments but not too surprised by them.

As a Munster supporter, I would be gutted if we didn't make the top four and challenge for ML honours. Of course, the Heineken Cup is more important to players, management and supporters but the ML is still a decent competition.

It would be nice if players like ROG didn't (literally) piss on it.

wixfjord

Jesus theyre some amazing comments. Its not hard to see now why O Gara is hated by so many. And this isnt an inflammatory comment its the truth. I would be incredibly mad if I was a Munster fan who had paid into these three games and this guy comes out now with this attitude. Unbelieveably arrogant tbh and theres no arguing with that.

“Maybe Magners League games aren’t the arena for trying out things. It probably might not please some people, but I’m not too bothered.”

Not too bothered eh? If this was a non Irish player, or even any Irish player other than O Gara he would be absolutely slated by all and sundry on this board and rightly so.

castie

"It probably might not please some people, but I’m not too bothered."

Hes not too bothered that it might not please some people is what has been said.
Some people seem to think hes refering to the Magners league games.

wixfjord

castie wrote: »

"It probably might not please some people, but I’m not too bothered."

Hes not too bothered that it might not please some people is what has been said.
Some people seem to think hes refering to the Magners league games.

Hes not too bothered about people who pay to watch him play is what I get from it anyway. Smacks of absolute arrogance and Ive defended O Gara on numerous occasions trying to give him the benifit of the doubt but he really doesnt help himself at all.

castie

Hes not too bother if it doesnt please people.

Oafley Jones

Trojan wrote: »

Original source for the OP.

I've read his book as well as this article. The guy disgusts me. I respect his skill, particularly kicking, but he's the only player in world rugby I wouldn't buy a pint for.

Disgusts, really?!? Did he kick your dog or something? Talk about a completely unnecessary and worthless contribution. You'd think certain people would know better given the nonsense that goes on in this forum.


ROG's attitude is poor though and a weak excuse for poor form.

Size=everything

castie wrote: »

Hes not too bother if it doesnt please people.

Whats the difference?

Hes saying that he doesnt care if by not excelling himself and treating ML games as warm up games that the ordinary folk who pay in to watch his games get upset.

Horrible attitude.

Size=everything

copacetic wrote: »

Not sure why people are getting upset, O'Gara is just saying what all the players think. ML isn't as important as HC.

Saying the ML isn't as important as the HC and saying that you treat the ML games as warm up games and are not bothered is completely different.
Many football players for instance want to win the Champions League above the domestic league but they still take the domestic league seriously.

Trojan

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Disgusts, really?!? Did he kick your dog or something? Talk about a completely unnecessary and worthless contribution. You'd think certain people would know better given the nonsense that goes on in this forum.


ROG's attitude is poor though and a weak excuse for poor form.

I don't have a dog.

Here's a guy who is up alongside the likes of Paul O'Connell and Brian O'Driscoll with thousands of fans watching him, listening to what he says, kids viewing him as a hero, and he comes out with this kind of stuff?

Yes, I'm disgusted.

castie

Theres a huge difference between not being bothered about the people going to games and not being bothered about people who get displeased at him for trying things out.

What round is it now in your fight with o gara?
Your throwing an awful lot of digs at him in this forum as of late.

toomevara

In the interests of fairness, the full interview; (Todays Indo). Not getting involved in this debate, (life's too short) but what I will say is that the full interview repays close reading, rather than a few decontextualised excerpts. Lets give the fellah a full hearing, before he's sent off to the guillotine.

I never had any doubts, says O'Gara

By Hugh Farrelly
Thursday January 14 2010
RONAN O'GARA has been operating at the summit of professional sport for a decade but it is safe to say the last 12 months have been the most turbulent of his illustrious career.

The year began brilliantly as Munster's convincing Heineken Cup pool form proved the perfect lead-in to Ireland's first Grand Slam in 61 years, with O'Gara playing his customary pivotal role for both teams.

But then came the shock European semi-final hammering by Leinster, followed by a Lions tour that should have seen an in-form O'Gara installed as first-choice out-half but instead left him unfairly vilified for his concussion-induced role in the second Test and series-deciding defeat.

When Munster struggled for consistency at the start of the new season, and O'Gara went through an alarming dip in place-kicking form, the prognosticators of doom were out in force, ready to hail Leinster's Jonathan Sexton as the new king on the block.

Accomplished

This ignored the fact that O'Gara's general play was as accomplished as ever -- as he showed in the opening November international against Australia, when his goal-kicking form also returned.

However, Sexton's selection for the South Africa Test and subsequent man-of-the-match performance brought the changing-of-the-guard brigade out in force again when, in fact, what Ireland coach Declan Kidney was looking for, and discovered, was two top-class options with an eye on the 2011 World Cup.

However, if November was a trial, December was a triumph for O'Gara as the 32-year-old Corkman proved the perfect string-puller when the Munster pack beat up French champions Perpignan on their home, much feted, Stade Aime Giral patch.

So, what does 2010 hold for O'Gara? Cork was shrouded in 'Hound of the Baskervilles' fog yesterday, but the way ahead seemed clear for the Munster and Ireland No 10 as he prepares for the last two rounds of the Heineken Cup pool stages.

"I feel fresh. I feel good. I'm very much looking forward to the next two weeks; I can't wait for them," he said.

"Obviously, I was disappointed to be left out against South Africa but that's another disappointment -- I've had plenty of them. You have to come back stronger and better, and do your talking on the pitch and we'll see what happens come Six Nations time.

"But at the minute I'm in a happy camp and enjoying my rugby. We're in a good position in the group. In campaigns with Munster down through the years, it hasn't been as clear-cut as it is in this situation. We've a lot to play for and it's on our terms.

"I was just so pleased with the way the forwards performed against Perpignan. And that further instilled the hunger, desire, belief and competitiveness in me for a big few months."

O'Gara, the leading Ireland and Heineken Cup points-scorer, while acknowledging his radar was off in the early section of the season, is confident place-kicking blips will not be an issue when the pressure is on.

"I'm constantly changing, constantly looking for improvements, constantly trying to be the best and I'm constantly trying to make it as simple a possible," he added.

"How I broke down my season was, the first three games I viewed as warm-up games. They were Celtic League games. Maybe I didn't give them the respect they deserved -- but they were my first three games. I wasn't putting myself under any pressure. I'd had 12 weeks off and didn't do much kicking. I felt I didn't need to, that's my theory. I don't know how many missed kicks there were, but it was quite a few.

"You're talking about a five-game period and the most pleasing thing for me was that when the pressure was on against Northampton away I kicked very well. I didn't kick very well against Treviso but there wasn't any great pressure in that game. But there was in the two Perpignan games and I kicked 100pc for Ireland, so that was always the most pleasing thing."

Did the doubts ever creep in?

"No, I have huge self-belief," he said. "I have always had. I actually enjoy being where I was in my own head. I never had any doubts for any minute. I broke it down step-by-step and it took me a few games to do that.

"I wanted to do that quicker but it didn't happen like that because I'm not a robot. That's why it took me a little bit longer. I think if you ask my team-mates, I was in good form. People might not believe that but I was.

"I've been playing well at times this season but I haven't been kicking well. People who know their rugby generally separate the two of them, but the perception and person on the street believes that you're not playing well if you're not kicking well.

"It's very important to me to have the whole package as well and that's been the reason why I have been living the dream for 10 years."

Living the dream in professional rugby brings you into constant heavy-duty contact and O'Gara, largely untroubled by serious injury over the last 10 years, is conscious of the need to constantly monitor his well-being.

"I was struggling with my knee in the Connacht game (on St Stephen's Day). I played maybe five weeks in a row. I had a choice. I just wanted to play in that game to keep momentum going," he said.

"I just played 40 minutes and was happy then. I just needed to rehab my knee then for the last 10 days and rest up a bit and be fresh for this weekend."

O'Gara is clearly in a good place at present and, encouragingly for Munster and Ireland looking down the road, is not in any way concerned by the ageing process, referencing a rather well-known 36-year-old Welshman as proof.

"Old age? Sure look at Ryan Giggs ... "

Tim Robbins

Didn't rog diss the magner's league when they ahd just beaten the scarlets as well once?

Size=everything

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Didn't rog diss the magner's league when they ahd just beaten the scarlets as well once?

He also praised the ML league as above the Guiness premiership once.

It seems when O'Gara is playing well in the ML then it is fine but when hes not playing well then he 'doesn't take it seriously' and 'treats it as a warm up game' :rolleyes:

Add to that when he doesn't play well in a HC game its because 'there was no pressure in that game' etc.


To be honest I don't want to see my international 10 making such excuses. Compare that with Sexton who even after excellent performances criticises himself for one missed kick out of 7 etc. and you will see who should get the nod come 6N time.

PhatPiggins

Haiti in ruins

Global economic meltdown

Ireland being run by the Dukes of Hazard

HOLD THE PRESS:ROG SAYS SOMETHING STUPID AGAIN !!

Who gives a rats. He's a tool but he's only saying what the majority of senior players think. How many games do BOD,POC,DOC and so on play in the ML every year?

As always its the Rog haters jumping all over him. Not many Munster fans seem too bothered and it should surely affect us more.

Guess what the ML is the least important comp that they play in and if they want to use it to try new things and continue to win HC's,Grand Slams and Triple Crowns so be it.

Another pointless thread that will serve only to stir up the usual provincial crap.

Size=everything

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Who gives a rats. He's a tool but he's only saying what the majority of senior players think. How many games do BOD,POC,DOC and so on play in the ML every year?

As always its the Rog haters jumping all over him. Not many Munster fans seem too bothered and it should surely affect us more.

Guess what the ML is the least important comp that they play in and if they want to use it to try new things and continue to win HC's,Grand Slams and Triple Crowns so be it.

Another pointless thread that will serve only to stir up the usual provincial crap.

The vast majority of senior players aren't bothered about the ML and treat the games as warm up games? Tell me, how many players do you know personally that play in the ML?

buck65

Where are all the Munster supporters now!? All gone into hiding, embarassed by this buffoon again! Afraid to speak up for "their guy"?

Oh no ...wait we are all just sick of this ****.

Risteard

buck65 wrote: »

Where are all the Munster supporters now!? All gone into hiding, embarassed by this buffoon again! Afraid to speak up for "their guy"?

Oh no ...wait we are all just sick of this ****.

Why would we' go into hiding?'

I don't like O'Gara. He's a good player to have but that doesn't mean I have to like him.

toomevara

Heading downhill fast, getting tribal/factional. Rather than have to ban/infract a number of you in a few hours, I'm locking this.