Australia Deporting Irish for Visa Fraud

esharknz

From the Irish Times today:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0114/1224262292195.html

spadder

Ahhh, remember the days when you had to be a criminal to get into Oz.

Xavi6

Good enough for them

Zambia

+1 Don't let the Departure Door hit you on the way out.

Every time an Irish passport holder commits Visa Fraud it tarnishs every other Irish Applicant

m@cc@

spadder wrote: »

Ahhh, remember the days when you had to be a criminal to get into Oz.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha, that's actually the first time I've heard that one.

Zambia232 wrote: »

Every time an Irish passport holder commits Visa Fraud it tarnishs every other Irish Applicant

Too true. And the same goes for those on a WHV who go out every night and quit a job early.

Mahatma coat

tis fair like, but Lads, we'll have to put a better effort in this year to see about beatin the Koreans to No 1.


on that note, I am lookin for someone in March/April who's handy at the construction, legit 3 month stay in a bush cabin, nearish to Mt Isa/Cloncurry/Dajarra.

Mahatma coat

can rock and roll earlier if ya dont mind the HEAT, I was up there a few years ago and it was in the 52-53 mark, nice place tho, lots of gear there, has a train station & broadband:D:D:D

myhorse

So what website was it?
The fraud became so widespread last year that Irish people were openly discussing it online. One poster to an Irish website wrote: “You can submit these [business details] with false dates etc and hope for the best that no one follows them up and checks. I’ve run into a few people now that have their second visa and never picked an apple or melon.”

shane86

Xavi6 wrote: »

Good enough for them

Zambia232 wrote: »

+1 Don't let the Departure Door hit you on the way out.

Every time an Irish passport holder commits Visa Fraud it tarnishs every other Irish Applicant

Are you the types who rat out illegals for the 500 dollar reward? Fcuk me, we are in the middle of a recession and you are downing Irish people who are trying their best to stay out of that hellhole? By something as harmless as lying that they spent 3 months on farms, many of which are little more than slave labour camps? Disgusting tbh. I got mine by labouring in the country for 3 months, but fcuk farm work. It is slavery.

Mind you, the fact that the DIAC reckons only 4000 of the 20,000 who came are on a 2nd year would seem to indicate they are as disorganised as many assume. Come on like, I can count on one hand the amt of Irish I know who returned within a year, at least 80% plus go for the 2nd year visa. Dont know why they just dont allow us in under an annually renewable unskilled work permit type scheme, it isnt as if there are any Aussies jobless because of the presence of Irish here.

Zambia

shane86 wrote: »

Are you the types who rat out illegals for the 500 dollar reward?

Thanks I didnt know that , good revenue stream there cheers.

shane86 wrote: »

Fcuk me, we are in the middle of a recession and you are downing Irish people who are trying their best to stay out of that hellhole?

Ireland is not a hell hole get a grip on yourself.

shane86 wrote: »

By something as harmless as lying that they spent 3 months on farms, many of which are little more than slave labour camps?

No-one is forced into them

shane86 wrote: »

Disgusting tbh. I got mine by labouring in the country for 3 months, but fcuk farm work. It is slavery.

Yes and some other chancer just lied

shane86 wrote: »

Mind you, the fact that the DIAC reckons only 4000 of the 20,000 who came are on a 2nd year would seem to indicate they are as disorganised as many assume. Come on like, I can count on one hand the amt of Irish I know who returned within a year, at least 80% plus go for the 2nd year visa. Dont know why they just dont allow us in under an annually renewable unskilled work permit type scheme, it isnt as if there are any Aussies jobless because of the presence of Irish here.

Yes mate and you realise every time you broadcast this online it brings the spotlight down on each 2nd WHV application. You are not even pocketing 500 dollars and you are rating out all of them.

The Aussie

spadder wrote: »

Ahhh, remember the days when you had to be a criminal to get into Oz.

Classic...


If i had known about the 500 redneck tokens (aus$) i could have tried to scooped $5000, rat or not if someone should not be there f%*k them out and ban them for 5 years, remember trash comes in all forms, i had to go through all the right channels to get Irish citizenship, if its good enough for me and its good enough for the millions of people who emigrate world wide each year it sure as hell is good enough for the backdoor scum.

m@cc@

shane86 wrote: »

Fcuk me, we are in the middle of a recession and you are downing Irish people who are trying their best to stay out of that hellhole?

Would you listen to yourself? You'd swear that Ireland was the new Somalia. You seem to be totally missing the point of the WHV. It's there to benefit Australia as much as the Irish. And if the Australian government say if you want to stay a second year, you need to go and do some regional work than so be it. People are aware of the rules and if they aren't, don't expect much sympathy when it goes wrong. As mentioned earlier, it gives other Irish in Australia the reputation as a bunch of chancers.

CiaranC

shane86 wrote: »

Are you the types who rat out illegals for the 500 dollar reward? Fcuk me, we are in the middle of a recession and you are downing Irish people who are trying their best to stay out of that hellhole?

Pathetic, you are making yourself out to be the equivalent of the boat people from Indonesia.

Maybe you should have a look at the UNs worlds most liveable country index:

http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/mostlivable-leastlivable-countries-2007.html

jimmypitt

CiaranC wrote: »

Pathetic, you are making yourself out to be the equivalent of the boat people from Indonesia.

Maybe you should have a look at the UNs worlds most liveable country index:

http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/mostlivable-leastlivable-countries-2007.html

Situation has slightly changed since 2007, no?

Mahatma coat

hang on a mo here, is some randon cvnt tryin to defend the Illegals????????

in fairness it dosent take all that much effort to be allowed live here, a 457 is 500 oddd quid every four years, if ya cant save that Fvck off,

Its not all that difficult if yer white ans Irish/European to find a job and live here

should you wish to spend yer second year on the Piss in bondi, we's dont raelly want ya

Mahatma coat

eh? hows do I get $500 for rattin lads out???????????

kittex

Ah, I know a Scottish gal who was denied her 2nd year WHV because the farmer she worked for came up in a few Irish and English WHV fraudulent applications. She had done 10 weeks (2 weeks short of the 3 months) but the farmer signed her off. But as the other employment dates on other people were so dodge, she was denied and was given has 20 days to leave Aus. Shame. She did more than most fraudsters!

hussey

shane86 wrote: »

Are you the types who rat out illegals for the 500 dollar reward? Fcuk me, we are in the middle of a recession and you are downing Irish people who are trying their best to stay out of that hellhole? By something as harmless as lying that they spent 3 months on farms, many of which are little more than slave labour camps? Disgusting tbh. I got mine by labouring in the country for 3 months, but fcuk farm work.

No one here claimed to have ratted out illegals .. so please don't put that accusation out there.
It is a lot easier to actually work on a farm for 3months, no one can complain that their bribe fell through. If you want to extend their visa, then work for it!
That is what I and a lot of other people did.
If Ireland is such a hole, then all you have to do is work 13weeks either on a farm. To me that is a pretty good option to have, if people are too lazy to work for their reward and want the easy way out then they can have no complaints that they have been kicked out.

It is slavery.

wow :rolleyes:

Mind you, the fact that the DIAC reckons only 4000 of the 20,000 who came are on a 2nd year would seem to indicate they are as disorganised as many assume. Come on like, I can count on one hand the amt of Irish I know who returned within a year, at least 80% plus go for the 2nd year visa. Dont know why they just dont allow us in under an annually renewable unskilled work permit type scheme, it isnt as if there are any Aussies jobless because of the presence of Irish here.

have you got any statistics to back up your claims? or you picking them out of thin air. 80% plus - wow, you really are dreaming.
You claim, because you talk to a few irish people that you are correct and the computer who processes the visas is wrong?

watna

myhorse wrote: »

So what website was it?
The fraud became so widespread last year that Irish people were openly discussing it online. One poster to an Irish website wrote: “You can submit these [business details] with false dates etc and hope for the best that no one follows them up and checks. I’ve run into a few people now that have their second visa and never picked an apple or melon.”

It against our charter to discuss illegal ways to enter Australia, but there are certain posters who don't get that.

It is something I am going to be much more on to from now on, after a recent spate of threads. So threads will be deleted on sight and posters banned.

Shane86, what's with the melodrama? I think calling fruit picking slavery when you get paid for it and get to stay in Aus because of it is a bit extreme, as is calling Ireland a hellhole. Have you not seen the news in the past two days? There's 50,000 people in Haiti dead and mostly because of shoddy building regulations. Get over yourself.

The_B_Man

myhorse wrote: »

So what website was it?
The fraud became so widespread last year that Irish people were openly discussing it online. One poster to an Irish website wrote: “You can submit these [business details] with false dates etc and hope for the best that no one follows them up and checks. I’ve run into a few people now that have their second visa and never picked an apple or melon.”

peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139480

cabbages!:rolleyes:

shane86

Zambia232 wrote: »

Yes mate and you realise every time you broadcast this online it brings the spotlight down on each 2nd WHV application. You are not even pocketing 500 dollars and you are rating out all of them.

What I said was that seeing as nearly every Irish person I meet here is already on their 2nd year visa,or intending to get one, the government doesnt seem to have accurate figures on how many they have issued.

watna wrote: »

I think calling fruit picking slavery when you get paid for it and get to stay in Aus because of it is a bit extreme, as is calling Ireland a hellhole. .

I got paid 6 dollars for 6 hours in a field one day (they had so many people working such a small space it was impossible to pick any reasonable amount of fruit). I didnt get paid at all for another days work done (worth about 80, I was out of the area and to fight the case would have been more trouble than it was worth).

Mahatma coat wrote: »

in fairness it dosent take all that much effort to be allowed live here, a 457 is 500 oddd quid every four years, if ya cant save that Fvck off,

Yes, if you were lucky enough in school to have been directed towards an apprenticeship rather than a pointless generic college course. It takes an awesome stroke of luck for an unskilled worker to get a sponsorship. My biggest regret in life is listening to anyone who told me to go to college, should have got a trade.

Really, I have to wonder whether all you serves-them-right crowd actually express these opinions publicly to other Irish here.

Zambia

Shane have you ever gone though the process it takes to live here?

The process and the preceeding years it takes to build the skills are hard very hard. Where being Irish counts for nothing but it counts higher than coming from a high risk country.

If the Irish applicants begin to forge documents and chance their arm Ireland is ranked high risk and a standard visa app could stretch to 3 years.

You say Ireland is in the dark ages maybe its the attitudes that leave it there.

Regulator79

Shane,

Im pretty much with you on this.

Perhaps those most vehemently critical of the visa fraudsters would like to disclose whether they did their three months on the farm?

With regard to the 457, its not as simple as shelling out 500 bucks. You have to have an employer, under fairly onerous obligations if something goes wrong, sponsor you.

Ireland may not be a hell hole but comparisons to Haiti or sub Saharan Africa are facile.

Unemployment in Ireland is approaching 13%. Youth unemployment is double that. The country is hurrtling towards sovereign default. Its in about as bad shape as any developed country ca be in so calling it a "hell hole" is not that far wide of the mark.

In light of same, I have some sympathy for people doing everything in their power ot avoid going back with scarcely any chance of making a living.

Zambia

Regulator79 wrote: »

In light of same, I have some sympathy for people doing everything in their power ot avoid going back with scarcely any chance of making a living.

Its the same as sticking your head in the sand for a another year.

Tell me how a 2nd year in Oz fixes the situation you describe above.

Regulator79

Zambia232 wrote: »

Its the same as sticking your head in the sand for a another year.

Tell me how a 2nd year in Oz fixes the situation you describe above.

In some cases it wont, in other it will. People could meet and marry Aussies get sponsored by an employer. Or merely, enjoy another year in Australia and away from an Irish dole queue. Whats wrong with that?

20 Times 20 Times

Bloody sweat and tears to get my second visa , working in mango and banana farms. Good enough for anyone that does this.

Larianne

Zambia232 wrote: »

If the Irish applicants begin to forge documents and chance their arm Ireland is ranked high risk and a standard visa app could stretch to 3 years.

This is what will happen.

I shouldn't really care. I did my two year stint, my 3 month farm work. But I'd be afraid I couldn't emigrate there after my degree. Yeah, the work was a b!tch and it sometimes felt a bit like slavery but myself and the bf made sure we got a farm which paid a decent wage. Harvestline tells you where to go and for how much you'll get. It's up to you to research these things.

And to be honest its always the same Bondi bunch who were doing these scams.

Regulator79

Sarge wrote: »

Bloody sweat and tears to get my second visa , working in mango and banana farms. Good enough for anyone that does this.

Youre right. I have no problem with people being deported when caught. Equally, I dont have much problem with people attempting the fraud. Ultimately, all they are trying to do is stay living and working in Australia for another year. Its hardly the crime of the century. The Australians get a great deal more out of the WHV than anyone who takes it up.

Larianne

Sarge wrote: »

Bloody sweat and tears to get my second visa , working in mango and banana farms. Good enough for anyone that does this.

Bananas *shudder*

Zambia

Regulator79 wrote: »

In some cases it wont, in other it will. People could meet and marry Aussies get sponsored by an employer. Or merely, enjoy another year in Australia and away from an Irish dole queue. Whats wrong with that?

Shane has already stated it takes an awesome bit of luck for an unskilled worker to be sponsored.

Meeting and marrying Aussies is up there with winning the lotto as a plan for the future. It could happen but is best not planned on.

There is nothing wrong with spending a second year in Australia if you

1: Go and fill the fairly simple requirements to do so. It may be hard but that is why the incentive is there.

2: Aknowledge the fact that while you are swanning around in Oz, in ireland things are getting harder and you are avoiding facing this.

Larianne

I don't think people realise you can go work in a petrol station out near Ayers Rock and its considered rural work. If it's hard work people are afraid of.

I didn't know... but jaysus I wish I had known....

Beachband

Do this forum opperate under a democracy or not?
It seems to veer to the opposite sometimes, all that people are doing here is expressing their feallings to what is a very touchy subject.

What is true is - Ireland at present is in bad shape, who's fault is it - Government.
I do believe that when a country is struggling, that new temperary visa law options should be made available with other countries, to help the youth of Ireland, and any other able bodied citizen who aren't getting a fair crack at employment etc to go to another country and experience it work wise etc.

Ireland has done a hell of a lot for other countries, which was very evident during the Tiger years - not allot of money was put back into the Irish economy by those who availed of it - it was saved and went back to their own countries.
Australia have benefited from the Irish themselves many years ago. All that is going on with this thread is peoples disillusionment with current circumstances in Ireland, and how they can better themselves, yes there are right ways and there are wrong ways, I'm sure everyone would like to be able to do it the right way.

20 Times 20 Times

Larianne wrote: »

I don't think people realise you can go work in a petrol station out near Ayers Rock and its considered rural work. If it's hard work people are afraid of.

I didn't know... but jaysus I wish I had known....

/wave

Larianne

Sarge wrote: »

/wave

I was gonna but then thought not to. But then you did. :rolleyes:

m@cc@

shane86 wrote: »

Really, I have to wonder whether all you serves-them-right crowd actually express these opinions publicly to other Irish here.

Of course I'd say it, I don't think it's a controversial opinion. What you seem to forget is that these fraudsters, if successful, are possibly depriving a decent honest person of their 1st WHV.

hussey

shane86 wrote: »

Really, I have to wonder whether all you serves-them-right crowd actually express these opinions publicly to other Irish here.

Yes of course we do, I don't think anyone who is kicked out of Australia because they knowingly submitted an illegal 2nd year visa application can have any complaints.

everyone knows that the consequences of doing this is deportation, so if it happens why would anyone have any beef about it?

I know a few people who have worked maybe 1/2 or 2/3 and got signed off early and they all said the same "it is a risk I'm willing to take".

Seriously, what is your argument?

CiaranC

Regulator79 wrote: »

In some cases it wont, in other it will. People could meet and marry Aussies get sponsored by an employer. Or merely, enjoy another year in Australia and away from an Irish dole queue. Whats wrong with that?

Good grief, its a working holiday visa, not a vehicle to meet and marry Australians so you can get citizenship.

If people want sponsorship/citizenship, go through the perfectly valid route for skilled sponsorship that all the guys with PR here have. If people dont qualify for this, its no wonder their lives in Ireland are ****, its because they have no skills or qualifications. :rolleyes:

Mellor

can rock and roll earlier if ya dont mind the HEAT, I was up there a few years ago and it was in the 52-53 mark, nice place tho, lots of gear there, has a train station & broadband

I can't say for certain, and I'm not calling you a liar or anything. But i'm pretty sure the highest ever in Oz was 50 degrees, and that was years ago (something random I heard with the Heat wave in melbourne)

Mahatma coat wrote: »

in fairness it dosent take all that much effort to be allowed live here, a 457 is 500 oddd quid every four years, if ya cant save that Fvck off,

I wish it was that easy. After putting in 6 months with a company (related to my degree), who say they have work for me if I stay. who also, won't sponsor me as "they don't do 457 visas"

kittex wrote: »

Ah, I know a Scottish gal who was denied her 2nd year WHV because the farmer she worked for came up in a few Irish and English WHV fraudulent applications. She had done 10 weeks (2 weeks short of the 3 months) but the farmer signed her off. But as the other employment dates on other people were so dodge, she was denied and was given has 20 days to leave Aus. Shame. She did more than most fraudsters!

There is no such thing as almost in terms of a visa, all or nothing.
It's a shame, but its also tough.

Zambia232 wrote: »

If the Irish applicants begin to forge documents and chance their arm Ireland is ranked high risk and a standard visa app could stretch to 3 years

I don't think anybody was forging docs, no need to make it sound worse.

Zambia232 wrote: »

Tell me how a 2nd year in Oz fixes the situation you describe above.

I would of guessed that obviously, another year gives ireland a chance to get back on its feet. In 12 months, maybe the industries hit hardest might have a bit of work going.

Traq

m@cc@ wrote: »

Of course I'd say it, I don't think it's a controversial opinion. What you seem to forget is that these fraudsters, if successful, are possibly depriving a decent honest person of their 1st WHV.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your point of view, but I don't see how a 'fraudster' being successful would deprive another person of their first visa?

Zambia

Mellor wrote: »

I don't think anybody was forging docs, no need to make it sound worse.

Using an ABN you got of the internet hoping its not checked, is a forged document. Or at least a lie you have signed.

Mellor wrote: »

I would of guessed that obviously, another year gives ireland a chance to get back on its feet. In 12 months, maybe the industries hit hardest might have a bit of work going.

This is true, but its still sticking your head in the sand although you are hoping things get better while its in there. Apart from people like yourself who are getting experience in their field in Oz.

Xavi6

Beachband wrote: »

Do this forum opperate under a democracy or not?

No it doesn't and it never has.

m@cc@

Traq wrote: »

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your point of view, but I don't see how a 'fraudster' being successful would deprive another person of their first visa?

A 2nd year WHV is the same as a 1st year WHV. And at a time when there's talk of tightening the numbers, one of these chancers could get a WHV at the expense of a person applying for their first..

Traq

A 2nd year WHV is the same as a 1st year WHV. And at a time when there's talk of tightening the numbers, one of these chancers could get a WHV at the expense of a person applying for their first..

In fairness, there's been talk of tightening the numbers for years with no sign of it happening yet, so I don't think that's exactly an issue. If it was similar to Canada where there's a limited number every year then I could see your point but as it stands I don't really see that argument as valid. Not that I disagree with your view on people cheating the system.

I'm in the same boat as Hussey and know of a few people who've chanced their arm at it, and each person has known the consequences of what would happen if they got caught, and in fact know of a few people who've decided to fly home rather than be deported when asked for more evidence from Immigration.

In general I think that people who submit the applications for second working holiday visas know exactly what the consequences are if they get caught. It just seems that at he moment Immigration are really clamping down on it, so as a result a lot more people are being detected and those that are caught can't really complain too much.

Mahatma coat

I can't say for certain, and I'm not calling you a liar or anything. But i'm pretty sure the highest ever in Oz was 50 degrees, and that was years ago (something random I heard with the Heat wave in melbourne)

there is a sign outside Cloncurry claimin that the temp reached 53, this however has recently been disputed ( theres some remote work for a Signwriter;))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloncurry,_Queensland


and yeah I wouldnt sign an affidavit or anything sayin it was 52 but Fvck it was Hot and I was readin a mercury thermomoter attached to the frame of the Ute.

m@cc@

Traq wrote: »

In fairness, there's been talk of tightening the numbers for years with no sign of it happening yet, so I don't think that's exactly an issue. If it was similar to Canada where there's a limited number every year then I could see your point but as it stands I don't really see that argument as valid. Not that I disagree with your view on people cheating the system.

Well, you could also argue, is it right that Irish people on illegal 2nd year WHVs are allowed to compete with people on 1st year visas and Aussies for jobs when they shouldn't even be in the country?

Traq

m@cc@ wrote: »

Well, you could also argue, is it right that Irish people on illegal 2nd year WHVs are allowed to compete with people on 1st year visas and Aussies for jobs when they shouldn't even be in the country?

You could also argue that and I wouldn't have disagreed with that! :P

shane86

hussey wrote: »

everyone knows that the consequences of doing this is deportation, so if it happens why would anyone have any beef about it?

Actually the consequences of being caught are a strongly worded email demanding you leave. The DIAC realises we are keeping constructuion and the like afloat in Sydney. If they really wanted rid of us they would raid certain bars on certain busy days.

QUOTE=Larianne;64011052]I don't think people realise you can go work in a petrol station out near Ayers Rock and its considered rural work. If it's hard work people are afraid of.

.[/QUOTE]

I wish. Rural work is only all farming and certain construction (IIRC only construction of new buildings, renovation etc doesnt count).

The attitude of some people here is sick and, to paraphrase the term "non Auatralian", a hatred of chancing your arm is pretty non Irish.

shane86

m@cc@ wrote: »

Well, you could also argue, is it right that Irish people on illegal 2nd year WHVs are allowed to compete with people on 1st year visas and Aussies for jobs when they shouldn't even be in the country?

Are you having a laugh? Have you actually ever met any Aussies? The reason 5.9% of NSW people are unemployed is, simply, they cant be arsed. They stay with their parents and live off the dole. Sweet life to bake in the sun all day and get paid for it while we break our balls to pay the rent. Pathetic to be honest. Maybe in rural areas there might be a problem, but ffs only the other day I read near on half of school leavers in Sydney West fail to gain work. Yet I bet you a grand if I was to rock into a supermarket or takeaway in Bankstown and the like all the staff would be fresh off the boat Indians and Chinese doing the work the local kids wouldnt bother doing. And its not even your typical tough high crime tough areas, the amount of upper class Aussies who refuse to work is unreal. Even more pathetic that the government is trying to kick out the Irish who contribute tax to keep these wasters in benefits and do the work they cant be arsed doing. This week I worked on a renovation of a medical centre- there was a government erected sign outside about how it was part of Rudds stimulus plan basically stating how the plan was meant to reinvigorate Aussie jobs.

Of all on site, 3 Irish, an English foreman, a Kiwi, 4 Chinese gyprockers and not one Aussie.

Says it all really :rolleyes: And we need to be thrown out?

woolymammoth

shane86 wrote: »

Rural work is only all farming and certain construction (IIRC only construction of new buildings, renovation etc doesnt count).

Actually, rural work is usually all farming!

According to DIAC, "work undertaken in the mining and construction sectors must appear in the ANZSIC division for these sectors to meet the specified work requirement."

myhorse

The_B_Man wrote: »

peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139480

cabbages!:rolleyes:

Thanks Dude

watna wrote: »

It against our charter to discuss illegal ways to enter Australia, but there are certain posters who don't get that.

It is something I am going to be much more on to from now on, after a recent spate of threads. So threads will be deleted on sight and posters banned.

Its the only way. I mentioned in one of my earlier posts on here when I joined, DIAC do monitor certain boards/sites. I am not saying this one but one not a million miles from here does get watched.

Those deported were detained in Sydney and Brisbane airports on returning from Christmas trips home to Ireland. Some were held overnight in the Villawood detention centre in western Sydney before being put on a plane. Others were put on the next available flight without being detained.
Does anyone see the little sting in the tale there? Made me laugh....DIAC having a bit of fun me thinks... So if they applied offshore for the 2nd visa why not refuse it or ask for more details....if they already had the 2nd visa why not stop them when they were leaving for Christmas?? Instead wait till they have spent money on tickets home etc had their trip home, say goodbye to everyone at home, see ya's next year, hop off the plane in sydney or whereever and then get turned straight around hehe.
Be interesting to know if they were all using the same false details???

Anyways I am glad - they have put down a marker and its buyer beware from here on in. Plus I presume, open to correction, these little sons and daughters of Ireland now have a criminal record? So no Canada or Yankeeland for them if they do feel the travel urge soon.
Wonder if there is an international database to flag up visa abusers when they arrive at customs?

Traq

Fair enough, maybe deportation was the wrong word but essentially you're on your way out of the country pretty quickly.