Transferring Funds Between Banks and General Inefficiency

Red_Marauder

Hi, I have had some bad experiences with banks where I have current/ savings accounts.
It seems, in my opinion, to take an unreasonably lengthy time to complete a financial transaction (online or in-branch) when dealing with different banks here in the ROI.
I recently transferred a sum of money (online with 24 hour banking) between AIB and Halifax. The sum was very ordinary and not at all significant, but it wasnt until the third working day that it appeared in my Halifax Account.
On Monday last I performed a similar transaction of a similar size, and although the payee account was immediately debited, my beneficiery account has only just been credited...at approximately 8pm. Again, it is the third working day since the transaction

I raise this with my bank occasionally but each without fail says the other institution is just slow at this kind of thing.
What is the point of 24 hour banking if it would be quicker walking into branch, withdrawing money, and physically carrying it to the other bank? This is 2010, must it really take so long to complete a transaction?

Last year I tried to set up a savings account with First Active where there was a minimum balance of 20,000 required to avail of the rate on offer. The branch official told me however, that it was necessary to actually withdraw that amount from my savings account with AIB and physically make a lodgement to that amound with First Active, as the internet, for example, was not an option. Why is this?

Surely banks must recognise that customers want an efficient out of hours service from what has proven to be a very troublesome and costly industry who are still only opening their doors for business for quite prohibitive time periods. 10am to 4pm is not consumer friendly nor business friendly. Is a good after hours service too much to ask?

chris85

I agree with your post mostly.

The banks should be open at more convenient times such as later and also open on saturdays. Most banks have been talking about opening saturdays for years. Just never happens and it wrecks my head.

The transfer between banks will always take longer than physically putting cash in as cash is instantly checked by the beneficiaries bank when lodging it so instantly clears. But transfer have to go through checks which are part of our banking system to prevent laundering and so forth. But i do think this should be quickened up and should clear in a day max.

Banks hold the money longer as they are getting interest on it the longer they hold it.

I think instant transfer between diff banks would means no checks pretty much and may destroy integrity of the banks if proper checks are not done.

unclebill98

Your post is interesting but seeing I work in one I have a differnet opinion on some of your points.

Firstly, transfers between banks should be quicker and it is in some banks. UB let you transfer funds to any Irish bank by the next day if the transfer is done before 1.30pm. Instant transfers is a while off and there is active work being done to bring down the transfer time. This attitude of holding the money for the interest is simple not the case. As you can see customer service is once again top priority for banks so making your banking experience better is going to yeild far more profit for them than holding onto your funds!

On another note under a new EU directive banks must have Same Day Value for certain transfers. ie transfers to their own Credit Cards. So no longer will you have to wait 3 days for payment to hit the Card. Banks internal systems are not up to date yet and this is being phased in over the coming months. Its hoped that the same upgrade will allow for this to be used across a range of transacitons ie paying any type of bill etc.

As for saturday opening. Banks will do this tomorrow if they thought the unions would have no problem with it. Opening on a saturday does not just effect banking staff but the machine behind it. So its thousands of staff across a range of departments that would have to go to work on the saturday. So for those few people you'd use the serivce to do mundan banking that could either be done online or during the week would all that would benifit. Also with recent attacks on staff, Insurance for Saturday opening is going to cost banks alot as nay bank that does open would do so on fewer staff.

Banks have ample services to provide 24/7 banking, yes its got some down points as mentioed by the OP but no amount of saturday opening or Instant 24 Online banking is going to stop 30 people coming into a branch 10 mins before they close and then complain about the q.

As for the FA thing. Rubbish, a very badly informed Bank Official. There is nothing stopping you opening the accounts getting the details and electronically transfering the funds to the new account. It does have to be new funds but this can be easily verified by the Bank Official when the lodgement is made as to where it came from.

LookBehindYou

Does anyone know how long a bank transfer (payment)from Polbank in Warsaw to AIB in Dublin would take ?
The money was paid in 3 weeks ago, but to date has not appeared in AIB bank yet.
I have the receipt of the transaction in Poland,which was emailed to me.
Is it possible to check where the money is ? where in cyberspace ?
Would AIB be able to check if i showed a copy of the receipt ?

Toots

From another bank in the EU, it shouldn't take more than a week. Your best bet is to contact whoever was sending you the money and get them to ask their bank to put a trace on the payment as the beneficiary is claiming non-receipt.

LookBehindYou

Toots* wrote: »

From another bank in the EU, it shouldn't take more than a week. Your best bet is to contact whoever was sending you the money and get them to ask their bank to put a trace on the payment as the beneficiary is claiming non-receipt.

Thing is, that person is out of contact, but i have a copy of the receipt, can i check it anywhere ?

Toots

Hmmm, maybe contact AIB and see is there anything pending on their systems but I doubt you'll have much joy there. The thing with the trace is that it has to be done by the sending bank, not the receiving one, so unless you tried getting in touch with the Polish bank, I'm not sure what else you can do. The Polish bank may not entertain you though, as you are not the account holder.

Red_Marauder

chris85 wrote: »

IThe transfer between banks will always take longer than physically putting cash in as cash is instantly checked by the beneficiaries bank when lodging it so instantly clears. But transfer have to go through checks which are part of our banking system to prevent laundering and so forth. But i do think this should be quickened up and should clear in a day max.

The bizarre thing is that in my most recent transaction, the one that took three working days, it was around 8pm on the third working day when the account was finally credited. I know this because I happened to check the account online after work before it had been credited.
I'm sure there are not officials working until this hour in banks endlessly trawling through physical checks and counting euro coins one by one, so why couldn't it at least have been cleared before the end of the third working day when all the bank staff had gone home? What was physically happening to the money in that time after 5pm apart from perhaps picking up interest? It's very consumer unfriendly and is not a one-off, in my experience this is a typical event.

I know it might seem like nitpicking, but when you are moving around money for paying your service providors or the general costs of running a business - or a home, for that matter - you dont expect to be waiting three days for an electronic transfer to go through.

Banks will do this tomorrow if they thought the unions would have no problem with it. Opening on a saturday does not just effect banking staff but the machine behind it. So its thousands of staff across a range of departments that would have to go to work on the saturday

Really? Why can i lodge money through An Post with AIB on a saturday up until about lunchtime if this were the case? And I'm not just talking about Saturday banking, I'm talking about the idea of opening your business from 10am-4pm. It's 2010, these opening hours are prohibitive. Most businesses taking in cash or dealing with financial transactions open their doors before the banks and close their doors after them. For such a centrally important service for businesses, this is quite restrictive.

unclebill98

Red_Marauder wrote: »

The bizarre thing is that in my most recent transaction, the one that took three working days, it was around 8pm on the third working day when the account was finally credited. I know this because I happened to check the account online after work before it had been credited.
I'm sure there are not officials working until this hour in banks endlessly trawling through physical checks and counting euro coins one by one, so why couldn't it at least have been cleared before the end of the third working day when all the bank staff had gone home? What was physically happening to the money in that time after 5pm apart from perhaps picking up interest? It's very consumer unfriendly and is not a one-off, in my experience this is a typical event.

I know it might seem like nitpicking, but when you are moving around money for paying your service providors or the general costs of running a business - or a home, for that matter - you dont expect to be waiting three days for an electronic transfer to go through.


Really? Why can i lodge money through An Post with AIB on a saturday up until about lunchtime if this were the case? And I'm not just talking about Saturday banking, I'm talking about the idea of opening your business from 10am-4pm. It's 2010, these opening hours are prohibitive. Most businesses taking in cash or dealing with financial transactions open their doors before the banks and close their doors after them. For such a centrally important service for businesses, this is quite restrictive.

It could be that the banks clearing cycle kicks in at 8pm and any transactions pending are then credited to the accounts. Every bank is different. Some banks clear the cycle in the wee hours of the morning etc.

As for lodging money in An Post on a saturday, I'm not getting your question An Post is tied to AIB for its banking end of its business.

As for 4pm closing. When banks close its not a case of packing up and going home. There is a lot of work to be done when those doors close and the time between 4-5pm is spent doing these tasks. Most of time your there to after 5pm and if there are problems you can be there till after that time. So an overtime cost to the bank is there so your not going to get 5pm opening everyday.

There are certain branches that open earlier in the morning and stay open later in the night every day of the week. This is only in areas where there is a demand. Georges Quay UB is one of those branches.

I've opened the doors at 9.30 over Xmas to have no one come it till after 10. Branches close at 12.30-1.30 to acc people on lunches. Again most branches do not close for lunch.

I'm straining to see opening hours as restrictive. There are night safes for after hours lodgements. Direct delivery of cash of out of hours business ie sat/sun. If your using various banks for business it could be better to stream line into one bank. As for cash based business, most use time locks for storing of cash and these only normally open once a day to allow lodgements to be made and this is during the day.

Maybe your just that customer that has a business that the banks opening times do not work for you. You are in the minority.

Red_Marauder

unclebill98 wrote: »

It could be that the banks clearing cycle kicks in at 8pm and any transactions pending are then credited to the accounts. Every bank is different. Some banks clear the cycle in the wee hours of the morning etc.

Surely it is more sensible to have clearing cycles kick in during working hours. Out of curiosity, what benefit is there to having clearing happen when businesses have shut their doors?

As for lodging money in An Post on a saturday, I'm not getting your question An Post is tied to AIB for its banking end of its business.

I'm merely responding to the suggestion that having branches open requires back up staff in offices around the country.
Firstly, if AIB can award this responsibility to postal staff on a Saturday without such a backup service, why can't bank branches in general operate on the same principle? Equally, wouldn't it be forward thinking of other banks to offer such a service, be it through An Post or by themselves? The case with An Post and AIB seems to suggest that widespread backup bank staff are not required for the bank to take lodgements and allow branch withdrawals - the basic bones of banking.

As for 4pm closing. When banks close its not a case of packing up and going home. There is a lot of work to be done when those doors close and the time between 4-5pm is spent doing these tasks. Most of time your there to after 5pm and if there are problems you can be there till after that time. So an overtime cost to the bank is there so your not going to get 5pm opening everyday.

I'm not talking about how long staff work, because what matters to customers is not staff hours, but hours the doors are open. 10am to 4pm is a six hour window.
Lots of busineses face the challenge of dealing with the days transactions and tying up the other loose ends of the working day, for example in retail. Or, look at An Post, who routinely open until 5pm and manage their end-of-day tasks without any apparent difficulties.

I've opened the doors at 9.30 over Xmas to have no one come it till after 10. Branches close at 12.30-1.30 to acc people on lunches. Again most branches do not close for lunch.

12.30 - 1.30 closing accomodates people on lunch, are you kidding? yes, most banks in large towns won't do this anymore but I know a town in Tipperary where I used to frequently meet all the (admittedly small number of) bank staff in a restaurant who all lunched together instead of staggering their lunch breaks to stay open. It still goes on and I don't know any other competitive business in that town that closes for lunch. Who closes for lunch anymore? It is totally antiquated.

As for the 9.30am opening hours in the branch you work in, there is a strong likelihood that customers didn't know the bank was opening at that time. I wouldn't plan to go to a bank before 10am because I know that this is how long I wait before they open. Likewise, if it came to 4pm, I wouldn't drive to the bank, because I expect them to be closed long before everybody else.
You only have to look at Thursday opening hours to see that there is indeed a demand for banking past four o'clock.

I'm straining to see opening hours as restrictive... As for cash based business, most use time locks for storing of cash and these only normally open once a day to allow lodgements to be made....

Firstly, that is a response to limited opening hours in banks. Businesses would obviously prefer to have the money lodges rather than on-site and night safe lodgements themselves incur a delay in processing. A lodgement that could be done and dusted at on a Monday if a bank opened in line with other businesses, may instead not appear in a customer account until the end of the next business day.
Leaving aside businesses, these opening hours also inconvenience regular people who depend on banking for their personal finances in a private capacity. Personal customer queries, personal transactions, currecny exchanges, and other services, are all effected.
In mentioning that, I just happen to recall a situation where fully armed with my driver's licence and laser card I was recently refused the facility of viewing my recent transactions on my current a/c with AIB. They were fully prepared to release any amount of money to me from my account, but not to allow me to view how I had recently withdrawn it. Does that make any sense?

My overall point is that banks operate like some bizarre relic of a more backward time in this country. They do not operate like regular competitive businesses and the inaptitude of their operations at senior management as has long been highlighted, trickles down to branch and root. There is a systemic inefficacy to them. They operate like some bureaucratic civil service.
It is no accident in my opinion that the most efficient bank I have come across is a UK bank and one with only two branches in the city that i know of - Halifax. While the opening hours are not fantastic, they do open on Saturdays and generally appear to be more efficient and more consumer and business friendly than the others. They don't seem to have have the bureaucratic, old-school baggage at the levels we associate with BoI or AIB

Maybe your just that customer that has a business that the banks opening times do not work for you. You are in the minority.

I would doubt that everyday banking costumers would describe banking opening hours as consumer friendly. Perhaps people in the insulated industry are unaware of this frustration because by 4pm, the doors are shut and customers are left to find alternative arrangements.
If I saw a client arriving at closing time, particularly in this economic climate, the very last thing on my mind would be to ask them to call back the next day. Businesses are learning to be flexible, banks might take that lead too perhaps.

soden12

Red:

Debits go through immediately, but the credits take a wee while longer. That's so the banks can utilise your money for their own ends.

The banks are a cosy little group a bit like the civil service : short working days, poor opening hours designed to suit them, extensive holidays, subsidised loans and they even got a payrise this year.

dotsman

soden12 wrote: »

short working days, poor opening hours designed to suit them, extensive holidays, subsidised loans and they even got a payrise this year.

Completely wrong on every count.

Toots

soden12 wrote: »

Red:

Debits go through immediately, but the credits take a wee while longer. That's so the banks can utilise your money for their own ends.

The banks are a cosy little group a bit like the civil service : short working days, poor opening hours designed to suit them, extensive holidays, subsidised loans and they even got a payrise this year.

Soden12, take a month off from your repeated trolling. If you have nothing helpful to add here, don't bother posting at all.