Make my day - Legal windfall?

donegallady

Hi,

I have a problem that I would like peoples thoughts on. Before christmas I had the details to my Laser card stolen...I'm not sure exactly how but I think it was skimmed at an ATM. Anyhow the bank were fantastic about it. I called them the day I noticed (Monday) and they had the money back in my account by Thursday and the lady in my local branch (donegal) was very helpful.

It turns out that the card was used on an online betting site (to the value of 325e) and this evening when I logged into my account I had a 75e payment from that website. So I'm just wondering what is the situation with this?

Do I have to declare it or can I take it as a windfall and enjoy the 75e? After all who does it belong to? The bet was made and williamhill got their cash. I got the winnings. How does this work? Any insights?

Note: I want to act in good faith and make sure I do whats required. At the same time I don't just want the bank to have a knee jerk reaction and debit my account and then they get the cash. If it's mine...it's mine...or is it?

IKOS

donegallady wrote: »

Hi,

I have a problem that I would like peoples thoughts on. Before christmas I had the details to my Laser card stolen...I'm not sure exactly how but I think it was skimmed at an ATM. Anyhow the bank were fantastic about it. I called them the day I noticed (Monday) and they had the money back in my account by Thursday and the lady in my local branch (donegal) was very helpful.

It turns out that the card was used on an online betting site (to the value of 325e) and this evening when I logged into my account I had a 75e payment from that website. So I'm just wondering what is the situation with this?

Do I have to declare it or can I take it as a windfall and enjoy the 75e? After all who does it belong to? The bet was made and williamhill got their cash. I got the winnings. How does this work? Any insights?

Note: I want to act in good faith and make sure I do whats required. At the same time I don't just want the bank to have a knee jerk reaction and debit my account and then they get the cash. If it's mine...it's mine...or is it?

Hi,

Would be handy to have a nice 75e!!:D I would imagine if the bank refunded you the money the bet was placed with then it does not technically belong to you - as you didnt pay for the bet.

I don't know really - but it would be a nice bonus.

Are you sure you dont want to give it back to the lucky person that placed the bet, if the bank locate them ? :D

Let us know what happens.

dermot_sheehan

In theory the money belongs to the bank since as they compensated you for the loss on your laser card the bet was in effect made with their money even though not by you and was paid to you by mistake (I presume the fraudster didn't intend for you to have a windfall.

The money was paid under the contract between the fraudster and the betting site and is held on trust for the bank since it was appropriated as a result of a wrong (AG for Hong Kong v. Reid). Your control over it is as a result of a payment by mistake by the fraudster, so you hold it on trust by the doctrine of unjust enrichment for him .

The bank have 6 years to claim it off you and you have no obligation to bring it to their attention. If they seek it back within 6 years they have a right to the money but otherwise it is yours.

Tom Young

Well, simply the money is not yours and the banks insurers are due to pay in the interim.

I'd suggest making the bank aware of this. The fraud department will be interested in this and the fact that a bet transaction linked to your account can be traced. Are you sure this is not your own account?

Use on an online site will be traceable to some extent by the Gardai.

Good faith: Ring bank, advise of lodgment, fill in any forms they request you to fill in. Attempt to give money back to bank, if they don't want it ask them what to do.

Tom

donegallady

Tom Young wrote: »

Use on an online site will be traceable to some extent by the Gardai.

Good faith: Ring bank, advise of lodgment, fill in any forms they request you to fill in. Attempt to give money back to bank, if they don't want it ask them what to do.

Tom

Well during the last convtersation I had with them the lady informed me they had traced it back to a betting site and they were taking it further. I've never used a betting site in my life and that's the only reason I know this payment is related to the theft. Otherwise I'd be scratching my head wondering where it came from

I was just thinking that since the betting company took the bet in good faith and paid the winnings in good faith that they are removed from the equation (legal and moral). So that leaves the bank. And I was thinking that while they did fix my account so that I was not out of pocket, there would be some grey area whereby profit from a fraudulant bet would not be covered, ergo I'd just keep it.

But I suppose the bottom line is that if I keep this money I am benefiting from a fraudulant act, which in a way makes me a thief. And as my mam would always say....it would only bring you bad luck anyhow!

So I'll ring first thing in the morning and let them know. Thanks guys.