Squat vs Deadlift

Mellor

The two biggest lifts that most people will have are the squat and the deadlift It's no surprise either, both are similar, being powered by the quads, glutes, hamstrings etc, some of the bodies biggest muscles.

And normally, the deadlift uses a larger weight than the squat. Except not for me, my squat is higher than my DL. And I always fee closer to moving up with the squat first. I'm at a loss to figure out why. One are I suspect is grip, as its my hands/arms that fail before my legs

My question in this thread has two parts;

Firstly, what are the rough relationship between peoples squat and deadlifts. Either in Kgs lifted, of one as a % of the other. For me my deadlift is 85-90% of my squat.

Secondly, has anybody any suggestions as to why my lifts are a bit backwards?

My initial thoughts were that it could be any of the following;
I've been squating slightly longer,
My grip strength is lacking,
I am not squating deep enough (so bar weight is higher than I act lift properly),
deadlift form is poor,

Any opinions or general squat vs deadlift comments are appreciated

Colm_OReilly

I am not squating deep enough (so bar weight is higher than I act lift properly),
deadlift form is poor,

i'd say these are the two biggest areas right there. This is without seeing your form of course.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Mellor wrote: »

Secondly, has anybody any suggestions as to why my lifts are a bit backwards?

My initial thoughts were that it could be any of the following;
I've been squating slightly longer,
My grip strength is lacking,
I am not squating deep enough (so bar weight is higher than I act lift properly),
deadlift form is poor,

Any opinions or general squat vs deadlift comments are appreciated

Colm covered one area, I'll cover this.

Unless grip strenght is more important all the other area's exercised by the DL your selling yourself short by not using lifting straps.

And this is coming from someone whose grip strenght is all important for my Judo, in short - the deadl lift isn't an exercise designed to primarily target grip strenght.

Mellor

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

i'd say these are the two biggest areas right there. This is without seeing your form of course.

I think the deadlift form/technique could be better. I don't have anyone to check and I learnt from the net.
I think my squat is pretty good now though. I go almost as deep as I can, calf parallel to floor etc

Savanna Rhythmic Hatchet wrote: »

Colm covered one area, I'll cover this.

Unless grip strenght is more important all the other area's exercised by the DL your selling yourself short by not using lifting straps.

And this is coming from someone whose grip strenght is all important for my Judo, in short - the deadl lift isn't an exercise designed to primarily target grip strenght.

Grip strength isn't really important. I've just noticed that it's not my legs that fail. I might look into straps. Have they any other uses. (i've never used them, almost nobody here does DLs)

Pugsley

What part feels weakest in your deadlifts? If it's your grip thats holding you back you will definately feel the bar trying to roll out of your hands.

Also are you using a mixed grip? ie: 1 hand facing you, 1 hand away. Makes a huge difference if it's grip holding you back that would allow to lift more.

My deadlift is currently about 20% higher than my Squats.
Thats with:
Parallel squats
Lowering of the bar on the deadlift (not dropped)

Mellor

Pugsley wrote: »

What part feels weakest in your deadlifts? If it's your grip thats holding you back you will definately feel the bar trying to roll out of your hands.

Also are you using a mixed grip? ie: 1 hand facing you, 1 hand away. Makes a huge difference if it's grip holding you back that would allow to lift more.

That's exactly the feeling I get. The bar rolls out of my grip, until its resting on the top of my fingers, then it fails.

I keep meaning to change to a mixed grip, but forget when it come to grab the bar.

My deadlift is currently about 20% higher than my Squats.
Thats with:
Parallel squats
Lowering of the bar on the deadlift (not dropped)

That's roughly what I'd expect. I'd be interest to hear other stats.
As I said, my squat is abot 20% higher. And like you, I do parallel squats, and lower the bar. I do 8 reps for both, and I find the deadlift far more draining (as I said, i'm hoping to move up in weight for squat soon)

Ciaran500

My deadlifts are about 15-20% higher than my squat.

Rippetoe has a definitive section on this
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#I_squat_way_more_than_I_deadlift.2C_what_gives.3F

1) You aren't squatting deep enough
2) You aren't squatting deep enough
3) You aren't squatting deep enough
4) You aren't squatting deep enough
5) You aren't squatting deep enough
That's right, the problem might not be that you're deadlifting too little, but rather that you are squatting too much. If however you think you are squatting deep enough, then chances are good that one of the following solves the mystery:

6) You aren't squatting deep enough, no matter what you say (post Videos?)
7) You need chalk
8) You hate deadlifting because you're a pussy
9) You hate deadlifting for some other reason, but you're probably a pussy
10) Your grip sucks

d'Oracle

Ciaran500 wrote: »

My deadlifts are about 15-20% higher than my squat.

Rippetoe has a definitive section on this
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#I_squat_way_more_than_I_deadlift.2C_what_gives.3F

1) You aren't squatting deep enough
2) You aren't squatting deep enough
3) You aren't squatting deep enough
4) You aren't squatting deep enough
5) You aren't squatting deep enough
That's right, the problem might not be that you're deadlifting too little, but rather that you are squatting too much. If however you think you are squatting deep enough, then chances are good that one of the following solves the mystery:

6) You aren't squatting deep enough, no matter what you say (post Videos?)
7) You need chalk
8) You hate deadlifting because you're a pussy
9) You hate deadlifting for some other reason, but you're probably a pussy
10) Your grip sucks

Thats not Rippetoe.
Its Tim Donahey.

Magic Eight Ball

My squat is something like 60% of my deadlift.

I’d have to agree with Colm regarding not squating deep enough. I was regularly squatting over a 100kgs until I started breaking parallel. Needless to say, the weight came down a bit.

token

If it's a grip problem use a mixed grip. I haven't tested but there would probably be a good 20kg difference between what I can deadlift double overhand vs mixed. Don't completely abandon the double overhand though use it on your warmups/lighter sets so you maintain some sort of grip strength.

brenmurph

you could use weightlifting chawlk either i find it better and if you put it on your thighs it helps control the bar on the way back down therefore improving your form of course it will make your clothes manky

KevinH

My deadlift is nearly 50% higher than my squat....
And it's my grip that fails, I'm gonna buy straps soon and see what my deadlift can go up to. I do try to squat quite deep though.

Having a bigger squat than deadlift seems very strange to me, although the top powerlifters do sometimes squat more I think.

Ciaran500

How heavy are peoples deadlift when their grip fails?

d'Oracle

Ciaran500 wrote: »

How heavy are peoples deadlift when their grip fails?

My Grip failed at 110kg months ago, then I stopped training deadlitf for a good few months (long story) Last night I pulled 110kg with double overhand grip and had no grip concerns at all.

So it depends on how strong your grip is.

Nate--IRL--

Grip should never be a consideration with deadlifts. As said previously use Mixed grip/chalk/Liquid chalk/straps as necessary.

Personally I use Liquid chalk as i find it offers the best grip, bar straps. I also use it as it stops my callouses being ripped from the skin on my hands.

If you find grip a problem while deadlifting, you are more likely to injure yourself during a movement trying to compensate for a momentary loss of grip or slip of the bar.

If you want to train grip, do Farmers walks, leave deadlifting for training your back.

Nate

digme

KevinH wrote: »

My deadlift is nearly 50% higher than my squat....
And it's my grip that fails, I'm gonna buy straps soon and see what my deadlift can go up to. I do try to squat quite deep though.

Having a bigger squat than deadlift seems very strange to me, although the top powerlifters do sometimes squat more I think.

You might just want to strengthen your flexor carpi radialis and ulnaris and finger flexor muscles,since your isometric strength sucks in that area.Straps are not the answer.

brianthebard

Ciaran500 wrote: »

How heavy are peoples deadlift when their grip fails?

Have not had my grip fail yet, I imagine its different for everyone though.

KevinH

digme wrote: »

You might just want to strengthen your flexor carpi radialis and ulnaris and finger flexor muscles,since your isometric strength sucks in that area.Straps are not the answer.

I want to see what my deadlift can go up to with straps.
I'm going to do more grip strength work and then try to get my strapless deadlift up to the same level. Then repeat, and so on.

DamienH

Can anyone tell me if liquid chalk feels like chalk? I know it's a bit of a mad question but I hate the feel of normal chalk, it makes me shiver. I hated it in school aswell.

Esse85

DamienH wrote: »

Can anyone tell me if liquid chalk feels like chalk? I know it's a bit of a mad question but I hate the feel of normal chalk, it makes me shiver. I hated it in school aswell.

Yes it does but there's less on your hand.

cardio,shoot me

d'Oracle wrote: »

My Grip failed at 110kg months ago, then I stopped training deadlitf for a good few months (long story) Last night I pulled 110kg with double overhand grip and had no grip concerns at all.

So it depends on how strong your grip is.

my grips never failed on deadlifts, im able to do double overhand static holds with 180 for about 20 seconds :P

cardio,shoot me

DamienH wrote: »

Can anyone tell me if liquid chalk feels like chalk? I know it's a bit of a mad question but I hate the feel of normal chalk, it makes me shiver. I hated it in school aswell.

i absolutly freaking hate liquid chalk, have a pretty much unused bottle in my house. smells horrible, impossible to get off, makes my hands feel all gewy(sp) , guess it depends tho

cardio,shoot me

Btw this thread reminds me so much of this picture oh and sorry about the triple post, ive no clue how to multi quote

d'Oracle

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

i absolutly freaking hate liquid chalk, have a pretty much unused bottle in my house. smells horrible, impossible to get off, makes my hands feel all gewy(sp) , guess it depends tho

I love it.
Mine actually smells quite nice.

Hanley

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

i absolutly freaking hate liquid chalk, have a pretty much unused bottle in my house. smells horrible, impossible to get off, makes my hands feel all gewy(sp) , guess it depends tho

If your hands are goo-ie (sp) then you've probs used too much, ya only use a bit, rub it in and let it dry.

Mellor

I think its a combo of:

link above wrote:

f you really do squat more than you deadlift, and you honestly have trained both with equal intensity and effort,

I'm squatting longer than I deadlift, I'll give it a month and I imagine it'll regulate.

Aim to break 100kg for 8 rep squat around that time. So hopefully, DL willl over take squats


as for not going deep enough, I go to parallel. Obviously if I went arse to heels it would be lower

Baldie

I'm currently squating 105kg (max = 127.5kg) and I'm deadlifting 115kg (max = 125kg). My grip normally fails at about 115 - 120kg on the deadlift. I find that my squats are much better then my deadlifts.

Esse85

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

i absolutly freaking hate liquid chalk, have a pretty much unused bottle in my house. smells horrible, impossible to get off, makes my hands feel all gewy(sp) , guess it depends tho

Where did you buy this from?

BrianD3

My squat is ridiculously bad while my deadlift is fairly good. In the last month or so I have lifted the following 1 rep maxes at 78 kg BW
squat 125 kg
deadlift 257.5 kg (using a narrow sumo stance that is the same width as my squat stance)
bench 107.5 kg

I have struggled with squatting for quite a while. Have read numerous articles about form, video'd myself etc. Most recently I saw a Dave Tate video and was concentrating on spreading the floor and staying tight etc. As I approach legal depth I seem to lose all tightness. But even though I suck at it, I'm not giving up on the squat.

brianthebard

That's a sick deadlift, even if you do have orangutan arms (think you said that before in a different thread). I don't think your squat is sooo bad either, its coming up on 2xbw, its just completely dwarfed by your dead.

BrianD3

brianthebard wrote: »

That's a sick deadlift, even if you do have orangutan arms (think you said that before in a different thread).

This is true My height is 5 foot 9.5 but I have the same arm length as my mate who is 6 foot 1.5

Transform

its deadlifts all the way for me - a more honest exercise really as you either got it off the floor or not. No issues with depth or any of that.

Gotta second the farmers walks

Casshern88

BrianD3 wrote: »

Most recently I saw a Dave Tate video and was concentrating on spreading the floor and staying tight etc.

Can you post a link to this vid

BrianD3

Casshern88 wrote: »

Can you post a link to this vid

I was wrong about seeing a vid, it was not a vid but rather an article on T-nation. Here it is
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/squat_900_pounds

Gumbo

my max squat 3x5 is 75kg
my max DL 2x3 is 105kg

so DL is 40% (i think if my maths are up to scratch)

I would actually like to try the 1RM thing, how would i go about doing this?
ie. do i warm up as normal and then just load up a certain % above my 5RM or similar?

thanks.

DamienH

Work off your 1RM for calculating percentages. You can't compare 3x5 with 2x3, it's like apples and oranges.