Airline Pilot

DarrenGT4

Hi all, im very interest in becomeing a airline pilot. im 20 years of age and am gone back to school to complete my leaving cert. now i went back because i had an interest in joining the GARDA. but i also have a big interest in becomeing a airine pilot. i know the cost thats involved and i dont mind that. i do lorry driveing as a part time job, and also have 12 gandsaved up to start up. im just looking for information on how to join and the best step to go. ill be finished school in june so ill eider decide for the garda or the pilot.

diverdriver

Have a look at this thread, then go to PPRuNe and have a look at the wannabees section. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055740920 and this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055783222

Then save your money and go into the Gardai. A few years from now you can think again about becoming a pilot. There's plenty of time. There are little or no airline jobs out there for new qualified pilots.

Also have a look at my post in the second thread. It's the third post. You need to think very carefully about your motivation to become an 'airline pilot'. Whenever I see that term, a warning light goes on in my head. If I see I want to be a pilot or I want to fly I know where the questioner is coming from. To me that means you like the idea of the job without really considering what it involves.

Don't think, I'm picking on you. But it's like saying I want to be a movie star without realising that most of them started out because they love performing and acting for it's own sake and that they would still be acting even if it was only on Fair City or a local amateur dramatic society. It's the same for many pilots. The consolation of the job is that they still like to fly despite all the downsides of the job and believe me there are many.

So apply to the Garda for now. Don't waste your savings on a whim. You're 20, in five years time there'll be pilot jobs again and you'll have a better idea of your motivation.

ronnie3585

diverdriver wrote: »

Have a look at this thread, then go to PPRuNe and have a look at the wannabees section. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055740920 and this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055783222

Then save your money and go into the Gardai. A few years from now you can think again about becoming a pilot. There's plenty of time. There are little or no airline jobs out there for new qualified pilots.

Also have a look at my post in the second thread. It's the third post. You need to think very carefully about your motivation to become an 'airline pilot'. Whenever I see that term, a warning light goes on in my head. If I see I want to be a pilot or I want to fly I know where the questioner is coming from. To me that means you like the idea of the job without really considering what it involves.

Don't think, I'm picking on you. But it's like saying I want to be a movie star without realising that most of them started out because they love performing and acting for it's own sake and that they would still be acting even if it was only on Fair City or a local amateur dramatic society. It's the same for many pilots. The consolation of the job is that they still like to fly despite all the downsides of the job and believe me there are many.

So apply to the Garda for now. Don't waste your savings on a whim. You're 20, in five years time there'll be pilot jobs again and you'll have a better idea of your motivation.

Excellent advice. Listen to it OP.

Are you sure you're fully aware of the costs involved? €12k wouldn't get you very much.

DarrenGT4

im after passing my leaving cert so im going down to cork airport this tuesday to talk to someone about this career. anyone any tips or anything that i should no about?

nag

You should ask them about all the possible extra charges that are not included in the price such as:
- landing fees
- fuel surcharges
- books for the PPL theory
- groundschool for the PPL theory
- IAA exam fees
- IAA flight test fees
- IAA license issue fees (SPPL and PPL)
- medical fees

The cost of other various other items such as:
- logbook
- CRP-5
- kneeboard
- charts

Aviation is a mine-field of hidden costs and charges. Good luck!

Nforce

Have a medical done first...no point wasting your money on flight training if you don't meet the required standards.

Celtic Mech

At least some hope for anyone who is seriously thinking about going down the Pilot Route in a few years time... http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0916/aviation.html

mgmt

Maybe you could apply to the RAF or to the aer corps instead of the Gardai.

Mr Benevolent

OP You're going to need 120k and a good job. Get your Class 1 medical FIRST, then go into the Gardai for a few years, save and look at your options again. I cannot emphasize getting your medical enough, it's crucial.

Storm 10

Dont see whats the point in putting the guy of the career that he wants to go for, by the time he would be qualified there could be loads of pilot jobs out there he certainly wont get into the Garda as they are not recruiting at present. You should contact Aer Lingus usrecruit@aerlingus.com. ask them for advice or guidelines about where best to go.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

ronnie3585

Confab wrote: »

OP You're going to need 120k and a good job. Get your Class 1 medical FIRST, then go into the Gardai for a few years, save and look at your options again. I cannot emphasize getting your medical enough, it's crucial.

What he said.

Forget about going to Cork. Get a Class 1 medical first. Then if you pass that start taking a serious look at finance, i.e. how are you going to pay for this. You will need circa €100k to get you to the stage where you can go flying the heavy iron.

nag

Celtic Mech wrote: »

At least some hope for anyone who is seriously thinking about going down the Pilot Route in a few years time... http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0916/aviation.html

I wonder which flight schools pay-role that Boeing guy is on
You can bet your life that the likes of PTC will be all over this like a bad rash, shoving it in the faces of anyone willing to pay their extortionate prices.

Coming from Boeing, a statement like this should be taken with not a pinch of salt but a truck-load. It's in their interest to talk up their own industry so they can flog more planes. The only time you'll hear bad news from the likes of them is when they have to justify why their profits for the quarter were not as high as predicted.

MUSEIST

This would be by far my ideal job, what a priveledge. But I would never afford it plus I would never pass a medical (who wants a type 1 diabetic pilot:eek:). But I can dream

owenc

MUSEIST wrote: »

This would be by far my ideal job, what a priveledge. But I would never afford it plus I would never pass a medical (who wants a type 1 diabetic pilot:eek:). But I can dream

Sames but all these crashes are kind of taking me away from it, my dads training and he is for buying his own plane but i doubt he'll do it lol, he went to america and learn't helicopters and stopped it.. sigh. its probably just another dream.:rolleyes:

DarrenGT4

cheers for the information. i will do the class 1 medical right away. ill keep you guys posted on how i get on.

Dickie82

Darren really take a good look at pprune as the other guys suggested. Has loads of information about flight training and jobs. Personally id say class 1 medical, then hold off the training until the market picks up. You certainly wont get a job in Ireland with the present state of the industry unless you have good connections or believe in miricles. Sadly Aer Arann and Aer Lingus are still struggling big time. Ryanair is your only option and that will cost you another 25000 euro after you finish training! I could go on.....please be careful and take the advise from people on pprune and here, its a dangerous time to invest so much when the chances of getting a job are quite slim.

xflyer

Maybe you could apply to the RAF

The RAF is not an option unless you were born in the UK. The Air Corps are taking two this year!!!!

You should contact Aer Lingus usrecruit@aerlingus.com. ask them for advice or guidelines about where best to go.

I wouldn't bother they are not in the business of giving advice to potential pilots. You would only get a bland useless reply if you even get a reply.

Three things you need for the job is the money to pay for training the medical and dedication. The medical is easy assuming you pass. The second is not so easy unless you have a source of money. The banks are not lending for that purpose anymore. Dedication well, only you can supply that.

As for the Boeing article, ignore it. There never was a pilot shortage and never will be, particulary for pilots with low time and no experience.

This is a very bad time to be starting flight training. You would be better off in college for a couple of years and then revisit this idea.

DarrenGT4

i have my class 1 medical in two weeks. i started my first lesson last sunday and i love it.

Armin_Tamzarian

xflyer wrote: »

The RAF is not an option unless you were born in the UK.

Not true, you can apply with dual citizenship.

Listen to the advice OP.
For starters you're talking serious money, circa €100k.
Secondly there are pretty much no jobs out there and plenty getting
laid off to fill any that are.
A friend of mine got his CPL about two years ago in the UK.
He's been in the pool with BMI since then to get taken on as a pilot.
This guy works in ATC and has plenty of aviation contacts and it's this hard for him.
BMI recently agreed to give him an office job indefinitely with a view to him getting a pilot job with them in the future.

Do your PPL by all means but while you're at it you'll get to see what things are like.
Also, you can get a JAA PPL in the UK for about half of what it costs here.

xflyer

Not true, you can apply with dual citizenship.

Not true, you must be 'British born' to be an RAF pilot or aircrew. It's a security clearance issue. British born can include British parents but whatever way you cut it. Irish born, Irish people cannot be RAF pilots anymore.

Armin_Tamzarian

xflyer wrote: »

Not true, you must be 'British born' to be an RAF pilot or aircrew. It's a security clearance issue. British born can include British parents but whatever way you cut it. Irish born, Irish people cannot be RAF pilots anymore.

Nationality: UK citizen or holder of dual UK/other nationality
http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs/pilot.cfm

Best go tell the RAF then, looks like you know more than them about it.

xflyer

No need for the sarcasm, my friend. Those requirements have changed very recently as in within the last couple of months. They were very specific, you must have been British born. That has changed now. So I stand duly corrected. Nevertheless you must be a British citizen and meet residency requirements in order to be a pilot. Which pretty much excludes most Irish applicants unless you were born in the North.

They have also loosened the the requirements for NCO aircrew to include Irish citizens. That was also restricted to British born until recently.

They seem to have had an outbreak of common sense on that particular issue.

Armin_Tamzarian

xflyer wrote: »

No need for the sarcasm, my friend. Those requirements have changed very recently as in within the last couple of months. They were very specific, you must have been British born. That has changed now. So I stand duly corrected. Nevertheless you must be a British citizen and meet residency requirements in order to be a pilot. Which pretty much excludes most Irish applicants unless you were born in the North.

They have also loosened the the requirements for NCO aircrew to include Irish citizens. That was also restricted to British born until recently.

They seem to have had an outbreak of common sense on that particular issue.

Perhaps the sarcasm was uncalled for.
The RAF used to have a distinction for fast jet pilots, they had to be British born, other pilot jobs weren't exclusively for those British born.

Getting back on track.
I would urge the OP to consider the RAF as a possibility.
Get in touch with them, you can chat to a career adviser online.
Obviously joining the military isn't for everyone but it means free flight training plus the flying work will be a hell of a lot more interesting than flying between DUB and STD.
You need to be an officer to fly with the RAF.
The British Army will allow you to become a pilot without being an officer.

DarrenGT4

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Not true, you can apply with dual citizenship.

Listen to the advice OP.
For starters you're talking serious money, circa €100k.
Secondly there are pretty much no jobs out there and plenty getting
laid off to fill any that are.
A friend of mine got his CPL about two years ago in the UK.
He's been in the pool with BMI since then to get taken on as a pilot.
This guy works in ATC and has plenty of aviation contacts and it's this hard for him.
BMI recently agreed to give him an office job indefinitely with a view to him getting a pilot job with them in the future.

Do your PPL by all means but while you're at it you'll get to see what things are like.
Also, you can get a JAA PPL in the UK for about half of what it costs here.[/QUOTE]

is that because of our stupid high fuel prices?
if ya dont mind me askin what is RAF?

Armin_Tamzarian

DarrenGT4 wrote: »

is that because of our stupid high fuel prices?

It's one of the reasons, yes.
I'm all for supporting Irish industry, jobs etc but the price discrepancy between Ireland and the UK for flying lessons is ridiculous.

Royal Air Force

Delancey

[QUOTE

if ya dont mind me askin what is RAF?[/QUOTE]

Darren , you can see from the advice offered here that you are looking to embark on a career that will cost you a fortune in the early stages and by no means are you guaranteed any sort of job at the end.
If you will forgive me for saying so I find it disturbing that someone in your position does not know what RAF stands for.

DarrenGT4

delancey42 wrote: »

[QUOTE

if ya dont mind me askin what is RAF?

Darren , you can see from the advice offered here that you are looking to embark on a career that will cost you a fortune in the early stages and by no means are you guaranteed any sort of job at the end.
If you will forgive me for saying so I find it disturbing that someone in your position does not know what RAF stands for.[/QUOTE]

sure how was i to know what it ment. i had a fair idea alright it was something to do with flying. anyway i never looked into flying in the uk.

nag

In all fairness, you don't need to have any kind of interest in flying to know what the RAF is or stands for.

cherrytaz

Darren

I would agree with the advice been given here. I was in your situation 5 years ago when all I wanted to do was to go flying. Straight out of school I wanted to go to Jerez in Spain and go full on with the ATPL but was strongly advised to go to College and get my Degree (just to have something to fall back on).

I have now finished my Degree (and am currently studying for a Masters becuase of lack of jobs in my area) but unfortunately the aviation industry is a LOT worst now than 5 years ago and I would strongly urge you to re-consider. There really are very few pilot jobs out there and if there are you can be sure there is a large waiting pool of well qualified pilots with big hours behind them.

A 100,000 Euro is a huge amount of money to have hanging over you if there is no job to pay for it.

Anyways best of luck in your decision

xflyer

Cherrytaz you are quite right. My friend did his degree but he really wanted to be a pilot. He knows that things are bad right now. But he's starting flight training. But he has one advantage, he has a job lined up when he finishes, my job as it happens. Not many have that advantage. I am doing everything to help him. Even then he has his work cut out for him.

That's how tough it is. Have no illusions. If you genuinely want it, you will get it. Just don't expect it overnight.

Armin_Tamzarian

xflyer wrote: »

But he has one advantage, he has a job lined up when he finishes, my job as it happens.

I wish I had a friend like you.

xflyer

One of the key things is to find friends who can help. They're out there. It's who you know as much as what you know.

DarrenGT4

ok abit of an update. i got my class one cert there the other day.
im doing flight training but only doing like 2 hours a week. i pay for it as i go so. thats the best way to do it i imagine the way things are at the minute.

ryr144

DarrenGT4 wrote: »

ok abit of an update. i got my class one cert there the other day.
im doing flight training but only doing like 2 hours a week. i pay for it as i go so. thats the best way to do it i imagine the way things are at the minute.

Hi Darren,

May be of help to you. I agree, 100% that there is nothing better than flying...IMHO. I was doing same as you, got class 1, send away for Student pilot licence, doing 2 hours a week.

Was it working? No

I have two cousins in Ryanair, one a base captain and another a training captain. They advice they gave me was to get anything in college, something to fall back on as the aviation industry changes like mad and you can expect to be laid off at least twice in your career.

Also, if you're going to do it, you should do it full time as if you only do two hours a week, you can often spend three quarters of an hour the following week going over what you did last week. Most pilots tell you that it is extremely easy to get rusty. If you did it part time you would end up paying more.

I would like nothing better to be flying now but instead I'm being practical. You're young like myself, go to college and enjoy yourself. You'll still be young when you're done.

Regards,
RYR144

DarrenGT4

Hey guys

Just to update my thread

i now have my PPL and i am in canada building hours to go on to cpl level.
iv just been checked out in two flight schools and can start flying at my own discreation.

When i applied for My PPL test i remember the CFI had to sign and stamp my log book.

Now my question is i will be flying at two schools here in canada. on my return to ireland do i need to get my log book signed to prove my hours are true?

Or as i am a qualified pilot now, all i need to do is just enter the times in my logbook myself?

.erre.3e3r

DarrenGT4 wrote: »

im 20 years of age
i do lorry driveing as a part time job,

Firstly 12k will only get your ppl

secondly ...

Large goods vehicle with a maximum authorised mass of more than 3.5 t mass and not more than 8 + 1 seats (lorry); with a trailer with a maximum mass of 750 kg. 21 years[citation needed] (18 years in Bulgaria, Sweden, Finland and Ireland; 18 years in Germany for non-commercial use only except for apprenticeship as professional driver)

21 years !!??

DarrenGT4

.erre.3e3r wrote: »

Firstly 12k will only get your ppl

secondly ...




21 years !!??

you took a quote which was made two years ago. my circumstances have changed since then obviously :rolleyes:

its 18 to drive a truck in ireland

b757

DarrenGT4 wrote: »

Hey guys

Just to update my thread

i now have my PPL and i am in canada building hours to go on to cpl level.
iv just been checked out in two flight schools and can start flying at my own discreation.

When i applied for My PPL test i remember the CFI had to sign and stamp my log book.

Now my question is i will be flying at two schools here in canada. on my return to ireland do i need to get my log book signed to prove my hours are true?

Or as i am a qualified pilot now, all i need to do is just enter the times in my logbook myself?

Are you getting the JAA/EASA or the FAA license?

What school are you in and what aircraft?

DarrenGT4

b757 wrote: »

Are you getting the JAA/EASA or the FAA license?

What school are you in and what aircraft?

i am doing JAA

isint FAA the States?

also its a cessna 172
will be flying out of pacific air and glacier air
vancouver

Armin_Tamzarian

DarrenGT4 wrote: »

i am doing JAA

isint FAA the States?

also its a cessna 172
will be flying out of pacific air and glacier air
vancouver

I'm not 100% sure it's the came with the CPL for fixed wing but with a JAA CPL(H) FAA hours only count for so much, i.e. you can't use FAA hours to build up all of the hours you need to reach the 150 or whatever it is you need to be able to do the CPL.

Congrats on getting the PPL.

DarrenGT4

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure it's the came with the CPL for fixed wing but with a JAA CPL(H) FAA hours only count for so much, i.e. you can't use FAA hours to build up all of the hours you need to reach the 150 or whatever it is you need to be able to do the CPL.

Congrats on getting the PPL.

cheers. i done the test in Atlantic last may.

Tenger

DarrenGT4 wrote: »

...Now my question is i will be flying at two schools here in canada. on my return to ireland do i need to get my log book signed to prove my hours are true?

Or as i am a qualified pilot now, all i need to do is just enter the times in my logbook myself?

I would hazard a guess that the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) could give you those details. They could also explain how the hours you build in Canada convert for European ops (JAA /EU-Ops)
And maybe the flight school will be able to tell how the hours in Canada are logged.



Well done on the PPL and sticking with it over the last 18-24 months.

Cessna_Pilot

Four years ago I did 80 hours solo time experience building in Canada on the back of my UK PPL. I just had to get an authorisation from Transport Canada to fly solo, and my flight school signed and stamped my logbook verifying the hours.
Job done.

DarrenGT4

okay guys i am returning to ireland at the end of the month and i am going to start my ATPL's in september. iv 60 hour PIC done so i was thinking of leaving 40 for ireland and then go onto my CPL. Once completed my ATPL, i know they are valid for 3 years. Do i need to sit the CPL,MEP,IR for it to become frozen? id really like some more info on this as i dont want to run into a situation where id have to sit the ATPLs again.

bluecode

That's a confusing question. But I think I know what you're getting at. Basically the three years after the ATPL writtens is the time allowed for you to obtain an EASA CPL and IR. Once they're obtained the exams last seven years from the time. Once you maintain a current IR you will have no problems with exams expiring.

So essentially you have three years to get that IR. That gives you another seven years. OK?

DarrenGT4

cpl passed today wow hoo

phonypony

DarrenGT4 wrote: »

cpl passed today wow hoo

Well done! How was it?

DarrenGT4

very good man. everything went well.

DarrenGT4

Hi guys. Passed my Meir test back last October. I have had no luck finding a job ATM. I was considering doing a course but I am unsure. I do not hold a degree but was thinking of doing something like aircraft systems in carlow it or maybe aeronautical engineering in Limerick. My question is, would 4 years be too long away from the flying end of it. I know I'd have to keep current, but four years seems a long time. I don't no if it'd be a god move or bad move. Any help appreciated

logie101

DarrenGT4 wrote: »

Hi guys. Passed my Meir test back last October. I have had no luck finding a job ATM. I was considering doing a course but I am unsure. I do not hold a degree but was thinking of doing something like aircraft systems in carlow it or maybe aeronautical engineering in Limerick. My question is, would 4 years be too long away from the flying end of it. I know I'd have to keep current, but four years seems a long time. I don't no if it'd be a god move or bad move. Any help appreciated

In my opinion I can't imagine a degree helping in getting a flying job

Best thing to do is keep flying. Perhaps get an instructors rating. 4 years to me seems a long time away from it.

phonypony

Certainly no harm in getting a degree, it always looks good on a CV. I know of people who have gotten a good chunk of a degree course knocked off by recognised prior learning of their ATPLs and flying hours. Talk to ITC, UL, DIT. 2 or 3 years can fly, may as well be doing something constructive while the flying jobs are scarce, if one comes along you can always drop the course.