rifle advice

jap gt

ok so iv joined the gun club, filled in the licence form and its ready to go, all i need now is to decide on a gun, im looking for a rifle, suitable for the fox and rabbits, was thinking of a 22 mag, i dont know much about them, i called to a few places and looked at a few but nothing really caught my eye, any advice on a good rifle

Glensman

I have a Ruger 77/22 All-Weather in .22 Mag. Fantastic gun, probably have it buried with me!

MRJ

I have a .22 mag their a great round and cheap to run but if i was to buy another rimfire it would be the .17hmr.

jap gt

one gun i looked at and liked was the cz 452

dicky82

sorry to highjack your thread jap gt, but a quick question for glensman, would a man pick up a second hand ruger all weather cheap enough? just had a quick google and its an impressive looking piece of kit cheers:D

greenpeter

jap gt wrote: »

one gun i looked at and liked was the cz 452

Had one of these and they are a super gun, reliable and accurate.
You will never go wrong with a cz.

Glensman

dicky82 wrote: »

sorry to highjack your thread jap gt, but a quick question for glensman, would a man pick up a second hand ruger all weather cheap enough? just had a quick google and its an impressive looking piece of kit cheers:D

I got mine 2 or 3 years ago for £380 with a cheap scope and genuine mounts. It wasnt immaculate, another dealer up to road had one for 600 with a bushnell elite that was in VGC.

I know it's a different calibre but here's one in .243, it shows the kinda money they're makin (not much!)

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/Detail.php?NewGunID=090312130558004&Num=23GunsTotal+100&Filter[NewType][]=Rifle&Filter[NewMechanism][]=Bolt%20Action&Filter[Make][]=Ruger

dicky82

cheers for that glensman, thinking of getting one in the coming months. . weve quite a healthy rabbit population near me and ive quite a healthy appetite for bunny burgers. hahaha:D

would you reccomend one for such a task or is the ruger all weather the way forward?

Glensman

Well any Ruger 77/22 is a good gun. The All-weather just happens to be stainless-steel. When I got mine I used it mainly on rabbits, but it got a wee bit boring, whatever I pointed it at was toast... Couldn't miss with the thing at all!

As for .22 mag, it's a lot harder run that a .22lr- but you find yourself firing far fewer shots because what you hit dies and there're very few you dont hit!

For the bunnies my Ruger 10/22 is a good gun too, loads of craic, and very quick follow up shots

jap gt

ruger are a lovely gun, have not had a chance to see one yet. are 22 mags enough for the foxes

No6

jap gt wrote: »

one gun i looked at and liked was the cz 452

I have one, its a great little gun!!!Get one!!!:D

jap gt

No6 wrote: »

I have one, its a great little gun!!!Get one!!!:D

getting good reviews so far, what model have you. any idea what a fella can expect to pay for one, the shop i saw it in was 600 for the lux, looking on the internet duffys have it for around the 500 mark i think

Glensman

jap gt wrote: »

ruger are a lovely gun, have not had a chance to see one yet. are 22 mags enough for the foxes

To about 120 yards. I try to keep it to around 100 though.

To be honest all rimfires are under-powered for the foxes, but the .22 Mag is the most powerful rimfire cartridge out there... http://www.riflesintheuk.com/rimfire.htm

jap gt

thanks glensman thats a good link

deerhunter1

jap gt wrote: »

one gun i looked at and liked was the cz 452

Have that model in17HMR, the way to go super calibre and very accurate and great weapon for the price, I would pitch it up against more expensive models for accuracy and reliability. If getting a supressor for it make sure you apply when applying for licence save you a lot of grief later Good luck.

jap gt

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Have that model in17HMR, the way to go super calibre and very accurate and great weapon for the price, I would pitch it up against more expensive models for accuracy and reliability. If getting a supressor for it make sure you apply when applying for licence save you a lot of grief later Good luck.

would imagine its good for rabbits, is it enough for foxes

damagegt

I asked much the same question a few weeks ago and here is the list of guns i was given.There all.22mag.Best of luck with it.

http://www.sako.fi/sakoquadmodels.php?hunterpro
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firear...agnum/983S.asp
http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/80-rim...M_VARMINT.aspx
http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/80-rim..._STANDARD.aspx
http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/80-rim...E_ZKM_LUX.aspx
http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/80-rim..._AMERICAN.aspx
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/produc...eets/7015.html
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/produc...eets/7019.html

jap gt

im leaning towards to cz 452 at the moment, going to head back to the shop monday for another look

fiestaman

Are you going magnum or .17

jap gt

magnum, it looks to be a good acurate gun

milkerman

I have had good & bad experience with the .17HMR.
The first one I had was a Sako Quad synthetic. Accurate I admit but after a short while that little piece of wire used as an ejector stopped working and I had to tip the rifle over to eject spent cases. But it was VERY accurate and would group sub inch at 100yds with just about anything. A friend saw it shooting and bought it complete with scope mounts and mod - the little wire ejector doesnt seem to bother him!
Next up was a CZ452 American. Shot like a pig from the box. First, the trigger needed attention - a Brooks kit sorted that. The barrel wasn't floating - the cut out in the stock was oversize and the action was just 'horsed' into the stock with overtight screws. Epoxy bedding sorted that out and the barrel was floating again. HOWEVER, it still shot 3" groups at 100yds no matter what.
Next up was to check the crowning with magnifying glass & strong light. The tooling chatter in what should have been a precise cut was obvious. I showed it to a retired toolmaker friend and he gave me a lend of a brass lap with approx 15 degree angle. Then followed a lot of hand lapping first using coarse then fine grinding pastes. This produced a smooth & very shiny ring at the muzzle. The rifle now shoots sub 1" groups like the Sako.
Conclusion, the cz452 is a very good rifle but the QA can be poor and some are pigs.
I have since shot 3 foxes at ranges out to 90yds - middle of the chest each time. Each fox travelled 10-15 yds before falling dead - one did a back flip..
But it's main use is as a Long range rabbiter and 200yds on a calm morning can be done.

Thomasofmel

jap gt wrote: »

one gun i looked at and liked was the cz 452

I have the CZ 452 American - lovely gun - gets the rabbits

cavan shooter

Shot lots and lots of foxes with my Remington 597 in 22 mag. No problem at sensible distances and proper bullet placement, I mean 100 yrds and chest shots. I traded it for a ruger in 22 hornet all weather you know the kit. Now I miss the bunny bashing and where the hornet is fine for vermin at 100-200 yrds on a wee bunny its well, explosive, so I just got me a remington 597 in 22 lr. Lovely accurate gun from the box and I am delighted.

I had a 452 previously and found it wonderfully accurate

gary29428

Sorry guys the magnum is not a strong enough round for foxs, you must use at least a hornet and then keep your distance max to 180yrds. Have been shooting a hornet now for over 10yrs at foxes and it is well up to the job so long as you keep to sensible distances and know the limitations of the round. I know the magnum will probably be OK at 100yds with good shot placement but I don't think we should recommending it to a new shooter for shooting foxes. In the hands of an experienced and excellent shot who know's the rounds limitations then maybe a magnum can be used for fox, in all other cases you have to have a hornet. Mine is a BRNO by the way, also have a .22lr syntetic stock BRNO, not sure why they don't get more press, I think they are a very good rifle.

cavan shooter

Where I agree the hornet is better for the foxes and thats a fact, (hence I got one,)and no need for a moderator either. I wouldnt agree its not for foxes. I averaged 35-36 foxes a year with the 22 magnum, call them in nice and close and be sensible.

But if you can only have 1 rifle for rabbits and a fox then the 22 magnum I'd go for taking into account all the variables

I am managing the same numbers with the hornet, possibly because I am choosy with my shots, I dont believe in hail mary shots. at night, 100 yrds is a long way. It's better to be sure than end up with a lamp shy fox.

The thing is take your time

bunny shooter

gary29428 wrote: »

Sorry guys the magnum is not a strong enough round for foxs, you must use at least a hornet and then keep your distance max to 180yrds. Have been shooting a hornet now for over 10yrs at foxes and it is well up to the job so long as you keep to sensible distances and know the limitations of the round. I know the magnum will probably be OK at 100yds with good shot placement but I don't think we should recommending it to a new shooter for shooting foxes. In the hands of an experienced and excellent shot who know's the rounds limitations then maybe a magnum can be used for fox, in all other cases you have to have a hornet. Mine is a BRNO by the way, also have a .22lr syntetic stock BRNO, not sure why they don't get more press, I think they are a very good rifle.

You go from "not" to "maybe" strong enough

It is "strong" enough if used properly

gary29428

As I said in experienced hands it will do the job at close quarters. It ain't the lamp shy foxes I am particularily worried about although they can be a pain in the arse, it's the foxes that wonder off wounded, not something anybody wants to be part of. If you are thinking of shooting foxes on a regular basis the are looking for good clean kills then it must least be a hornet round. I don't think anybody who understands and enjoys shooting can argue that fact. If it's bunny's and foxes you are after then it's two rifles. There is no way you can put your hand on your heart and say a magnum is the job on foxes. If you are on any of the UK forums they will have a fit if they hear people shooting foxes with a hornet let alone a magnum, they talk about 22-250's and 243's.
On a slightly different track, was out last Friday night and only bagged two on a run that usually yields more, seen feck all aswell, are you guys seeing more or less during the cold snap.

bunny shooter

Firstly the 22 WMR is capable of humanely killing foxes out to 120 yards. A .22lr is capable too out to approx 75 yards (with HV ammo). It all depends on the distance, ammunition and the shooters ability same as for every other calibre. A bigger calibre won't make a better shooter.

I would agree that a Hornet should be the minimum considered by a shooter for the job.

Comparing the situation here with the UK is like comparing here with USA ........ totally different view towards shooting, calibres and rifle shooting, not to mention legislation.

OldEyes

This fox was shot in the head with a 17gr Federal V-Max, from a CZ 452 in .17HMR at 50 yards. In this instance the rifle caliber, bullet type, distance to target and shooter's ability all came together to produce an instant humane kill. Would I have used the .17 on this fox at 100+ yards? No, that’s what I have the .243 for.
Shooting is about a combination of the right factors for the given situation coming together to produce the desired result. Experience will teach you these factors, good sense will tell you how to apply them to the situation at hand.

bunny shooter

OldEyes wrote: »

........Would I have used the .17 on this fox at 100+ yards?

If you are not confidant that you can kill it humanely you shouldn't take the shot no matter what range or calibre your using. I have shot & killed foxes humanely at 100 yard with a 17 HMR & a 22 WMR. Like you say though if I had a choice I'd use my 220 Swift

foxshot

ya ive a .22 mag its an extremely good accurate and powerful gun. it will and it has takin down fox humanely from about 100 yds easily and it has takin down fox humanely from 150 yds - all round its a super gun - get it you wont be sorry

OldEyes

bunny shooter wrote: »

If you are not confidant that you can kill it humanely you shouldn't take the shot

That statement is the single most important, and usually the hardest learned, fact in shooting.
It’s all about confidence. Confidence in your rifle, your round, your range and yourself. If one of these is lacking, don’t take the shot.
I’m referring here to “reality based confidence” gained through experience, not “delusional based confidence” caused by arrogance or indifference.

To the OP:
This may seem to have drifted off topic, but, I think it’s something worth considering when choosing a rifle, especially if you want that rifle to do two jobs.

bunny shooter

OldEyes wrote: »

..........................It’s all about confidence. Confidence in your rifle, your round, your range and yourself. If one of these is lacking, don’t take the shot.
I’m referring here to “reality based confidence” gained through experience, not “delusional based confidence” caused by arrogance or indifference.

To the OP:
This may seem to have drifted off topic, but, I think it’s something worth considering when choosing a rifle, especially if you want that rifle to do two jobs.

+1

jap gt

thanks for the advice guys, im not sure which is best suited to rabbits and foxes, but it will be more so foxes. 22mag or 17hmr

gary29428

Jap gt, if you are going to be using the rifle for foxes than I would say get a hornet, it will take a large eliment of risk out of wounding foxes. A shot slightly off target (and we have all had them) has a much greater chance of taking down the animal in a hornet round compared to a magnum or .17. I know the english shooting scene quite well and I agree it differs greatly from our own but killing foxes is still killing foxes no matter where you do it. Just wondering if those that think taking a fox with a well placed head shot fired from a .22lr would agree that shooting a deer with a hornet under the same circumstances is acceptable. Out for a walk today and there is a lot more of a buzz about the place with the thaw. Put a lot of hedge row feeders out and they are hammered after 2 days.

Glensman

I would forget the 17 HMR for foxes, just doesn't have the power and its a more expensive round, which rules it out for rabbits.

I use my 22 WMR for a combination of foxes, rabbits and crows. It is the best rifle for this combination. However, in my area foxes are lamp shy- this leaves my gun under-powered. That said I've taken many foxes in Roscommon and they dropped where they stood- every one of them.

jap gt

got a call today from a dealer that said he has a savage in 22wmr. the money is very right but i dont now anything about savage

jap gt

hoping to look at the savage tomorrow.. from looking into info about savage they seem to be a good gun, but looking for yer opinions

wicklow newbie

I have the savage in 22 wmr and its a nice gun. Not had any trouble with it so far.

poulo6.5

hi jap. i'm only getting in my 2cent now. i had a .22 wmr in cz 452 and i used it for everything from fox to rabbit magpie etc, its very capable for all of this i'd say its a good all rounder. i since changed it for a tika .223 its just better for longer ranges. i also have a .22lr 452 style which pound for pound is the best value for money you can get.

anyway my point is that you wont be disappointed with a .22 wmr cz.
happy hunting.

Vegeta

Savage have a reputation as an accurate rifle. I have fired one or two but never owned one.

bruskey

Ive been using a marlin mag for years and it never let me down yet.Get a box of clays along with your new rifle ,find a quiet spot and get to know its limitations.Only then can you be confident enough to take the all important shot without hesitation.The mag will take a fox out to 120 yds if you hit the engine room and that takes practice. Have fun and pick your shots.

gary29428

"Just wondering if those that think taking a fox with a well placed head shot fired from a .22lr would agree that shooting a deer with a hornet under the same circumstances is acceptable".


I posted this mid way through the thread and got no comment on it, still curious what people think, particularilly those that shot foxes with a .22lr (or at least think it's OK to do so).

bunny shooter

gary29428 wrote: »

"Just wondering if those that think taking a fox with a well placed head shot fired from a .22lr would agree that shooting a deer with a hornet under the same circumstances is acceptable".


I posted this mid way through the thread and got no comment on it, still curious what people think, particularilly those that shot foxes with a .22lr (or at least think it's OK to do so).

Shooting a fox with a 22lr is not illegal while shooting a deer with a Hornet would be ..... therefore your question is not relevant maybe that's why it was ignored

I know a few lads who have shot and still shoot lots of foxes with a 22lr and had no "runners" as they know their limitations and operate within them.

Before "larger" calibres were re-licenced in this country a lot of deer were legally shot with .22 WMR, .22 Hornets etc but your probably not shooting long enough to realise that

gary29428

My question is an etical one, not legal. It was stated that it is OK to shoot a fox with a .22lr if a particular set of circumstances presented themselves (ie: distance, skill etc). For me I think the margin for error here is seriously tight, to tight. I want to know if the people who agree in principal with the above would feel the same with a hornet and a deer. I think maybe not as people generally have a greater respect for a deer and not so much for an oul fox. Therefore they may take a more liberal view to using under powered equipment when it comes to a fox and will get all high and mighty when it comes to shooting deer, leaving the legal question aside. The ratio is much the same I would imagine, Fox - 0.22lr and deer - Hornet. I'm a dame good shot ( you'll have to take my word for it) and have been shooting foxes for donkey's years and would never under "any" circumstance shoot one with a 0.22lr.

CJhaughey

gary29428 wrote: »

I'm a dame good shot ( you'll have to take my word for it) and have been shooting foxes for donkey's years and would never under "any" circumstance shoot one with a 0.22lr.

I don't think I would hold myself to that, I wouldn't use my .22lr for foxes generally, I have a .243 that throws out 58 grain rounds that are perfect for Mr Fox , however If I am out with the .22 and the opportunity presents itself at 80yds or less and I am confident of the shot I would have no hesitation, it comes down to the individual and their confidence with their rifle.
What I am trying to say is that there is no absolutes, would you use a .22lr to finish a fox at 1m range? Using anything more would be a bit reckless IMO.

deerhunter1

CJhaughey wrote: »

I don't think I would hold myself to that, I wouldn't use my .22lr for foxes generally, I have a .243 that throws out 58 grain rounds that are perfect for Mr Fox , however If I am out with the .22 and the opportunity presents itself at 80yds or less and I am confident of the shot I would have no hesitation, it comes down to the individual and their confidence with their rifle.
What I am trying to say is that there is no absolutes, would you use a .22lr to finish a fox at 1m range? Using anything more would be a bit reckless IMO.

There is no such thing as too much gun :eek:

\i certainly would not specifically go out to hunt fox with a 22 but if opportunity arose out to about 80m I would use it without hesitation

vixdname

OldEyes wrote: »

That statement is the single most important, and usually the hardest learned, fact in shooting.
It’s all about confidence. Confidence in your rifle, your round, your range and yourself. If one of these is lacking, don’t take the shot.
I’m referring here to “reality based confidence” gained through experience, not “delusional based confidence” caused by arrogance or indifference.

To the OP:
This may seem to have drifted off topic, but, I think it’s something worth considering when choosing a rifle, especially if you want that rifle to do two jobs.

Top notch advice there oldeyes, we all love our sport but we must always respect the wildlife and countryside that allows us to enjoy this sport - unless you're 110% sure of your capabilities, your rifles capabilities and the capabilities of your target you dont take the shot, let it be, it'll be there for another day - best of luck to you whatever rifle you choose