Snow + TFL + ITB

tunney

A chat with some injury treatment guys last night that is worth sharing.

They are reporting a huge increase in the number of people going to them over ITB issues. They are attributing it to the recruitment of the TFL to stablise the knee while running in the snow.

Doesn't mean don't run in the snow, just a heads up that the TFL may kneed a little extra work with a tennis ball more often in the snow and that extra stretching and rolling may be a good idea.

OI

I'm genuinely not sure about stretching the ITB. It definitely seems to make it worse for me. The rolling does help though, even though that is a form of stretching I guess.

Interested to hear other views on stretching for ITB

robinph

WTF?

Stark

OI wrote: »

I'm genuinely not sure about stretching the ITB. It definitely seems to make it worse for me. The rolling does help though, even though that is a form of stretching I guess.

Interested to hear other views on stretching for ITB

Are you trying to stretch it while cold? Stretching has always been a big help for me any time I've had issues.

shels4ever

tunney wrote: »

A chat with some injury treatment guys last night that is worth sharing.

They are reporting a huge increase in the number of people going to them over ITB issues. They are attributing it to the recruitment of the TFL to stablise the knee while running in the snow.

Doesn't mean don't run in the snow, just a heads up that the TFL may kneed a little extra work with a tennis ball more often in the snow and that extra stretching and rolling may be a good idea.

Cheers for that, Relay found it hard going today planned to do ten miles but ended up with 7. Legs feel like the need a lot of work after this week. Must be due to the slipping and the higher knee lift when running in snow. I've found hamstring , hips have been tender after snow runs.

Kissy Lips

What's a TFL?

kennyb3

Tensor Fascia Latae

Kissy Lips

Oh right. I always stretch the ITB every night as a rule. I have a lot of problems if it gets too tight.

robinph

Kissy Lips wrote: »

What's a TFL?

My sentiments exactly...

kennyb3 wrote: »

Tensor Fascia Latae

...erm, still none the wiser...

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Oh right. I always stretch the ITB every night as a rule. I have a lot of problems if it gets too tight.

...erm, OK it's a muscle then I guess.

Now what are we supposed to be doing with it, and what is that other one you guys are on about?

Pisco Sour

robinph wrote: »

My sentiments exactly...


...erm, still none the wiser...

...erm, OK it's a muscle then I guess.

Now what are we supposed to be doing with it, and what is that other one you guys are on about?

+1

There should be some sort of rule that posters must explain what an abbreviation actually stands for

shels4ever

robinph wrote: »

Now what are we supposed to be doing with it, and what is that other one you guys are on about?

Running in the snow might make your leg sore/tight, then again it might not

TheRoadRunner

I generally (touch wood) don't have any problems with ITB etc but have had shin splints in the last 6 months and the snow if definitely not doing me any favors.

I am managing it with ice and heat packs and isn't too bad but another week of this may mean trouble. I may even have to hit a poxy treadmill (although they pull on my hamstring, I must be getting old ). I stumbled into my neighbors house new years eve locked and discovered they have a treadmill so may be tapping on their door in the next few days in shorts and a singlet.

I was out with a group of four others yesterday and 2 were also complaining about overworking the shin area. They haven't had shin problems in the past either

tunney

OI wrote: »

I'm genuinely not sure about stretching the ITB. It definitely seems to make it worse for me. The rolling does help though, even though that is a form of stretching I guess.

Interested to hear other views on stretching for ITB

Quads, calves, hammers, glutes and then look at the tfl. IMHO.

tunney

robinph wrote: »

My sentiments exactly...


...erm, still none the wiser...

...erm, OK it's a muscle then I guess.

Now what are we supposed to be doing with it, and what is that other one you guys are on about?

Apologies in advacnce for the spelling, I've not slept in a week.

The TFL (Tensor fascia latte) is a very small muscle that fatigues extremely easily when overused. It is connected via your ITB (Illotial Tibal Band) to just below the bony protrustion of your knee.

If the TFL becomes fatigued, shortened or spasmed, it pulls the ITB tight and causes it to rub off your knee and causes alot of pain. Its one of the most common and most frustrasting injuries that runners get. Once it flares up it is something that you will always have to deal with and you never get rid of it, only manage it. Based on gait, muscle balance and biomechanics some people get have ITB issues alot (me), while others run more and never get it (hunnymonster).

A number of things can set it off - running on chambered roads, worn runners, poor technique, quad dominant running and overuse of the TFL in lateral knee stablisation. Some are suggesting that this last one occurs when running in the snow much more regularly.

ITBS is something that should be managed pre-emptively, worth googling and doing some of the stretches and releases.

theo4130

http://physicaltherapy.about.com/od/flexibilityexercises/ss/ITBstretches.htm

one of you nice boards runners posted this link to me when i had problems with knotted/tight ITB, i hope it can help ye too!

gerard65

Don't know about ITB, TFL or AIB's but running in the snow really gives the buttocks a great workout. If this snow keeps up I'm going to have a arse like sisqo's (CBB watchers will know what I'm talking about;))

robinph

I THOUGHT THR WS A TXT SPEAK BND AROUND HR ?

I had to find some website to create that line of rubbish, and it couldn't even manage a couple of words.

robinph

tunney wrote: »

Apologies in advacnce for the spelling, I've not slept in a week.

The TFL (Tensor fascia latte) is a very small muscle that fatigues extremely easily when overused. It is connected via your ITB (Illotial Tibal Band) to just below the bony protrustion of your knee.

If the TFL becomes fatigued, shortened or spasmed, it pulls the ITB tight and causes it to rub off your knee and causes alot of pain. Its one of the most common and most frustrasting injuries that runners get. Once it flares up it is something that you will always have to deal with and you never get rid of it, only manage it. Based on gait, muscle balance and biomechanics some people get have ITB issues alot (me), while others run more and never get it (hunnymonster).

A number of things can set it off - running on chambered roads, worn runners, poor technique, quad dominant running and overuse of the TFL in lateral knee stablisation. Some are suggesting that this last one occurs when running in the snow much more regularly.

ITBS is something that should be managed pre-emptively, worth googling and doing some of the stretches and releases.

Thanks for the explanation.

I have some vague memory of being told it as better to run on grass because it was an uneaven surface, like the snow I guess, and so gives other muscles somewhere in the leg a bit of a workout that they would not normally get running in a straight line on a flat surface. No idea who, what, where or when the reasons for being told that might have been though.

Of course if you stick a foot in a rabbit hole whilst running on grass, then quite apart from the risk of having playing cards wanting to chop your head off, you'll probably do yourself a mischief with a twisted ankle anyway.

MrCreosote

Good thread Tunney!

Went out for a run about 3 weeks ago in the snow, first hill run in a while too. I've never had probs with the ITB before (in 8 years of running!) but got it pretty bad. Just back for the first run since the pain went yesterday and it's a bit dicky again today. Interesting what you say about the snow/ice- I had been putting it down to the hills.

Anyway a few months of rolling/stretching/complaining ahead for me...

pkumohideeile

I like the snow, it's good strength training. I wear off road shoes with spikes so have no issues with the weather. Although i've got good insoles in those shoes from the great outdoors i'm looking forward to getting into my asics soon as it's being two weeks out of them.

I've never felt my ITB, i try to stretch and foam roll over it and just don't feel anything other than the side of my quad. It's weird, i don't get what the fuss is about ITBs. Obviously i'm just lucky enough to not have any issues with my ITB but i'd at least like to be able to locate it when stretching and rolling.

rigal

I've had a lot of problems with ITBS over the past few months.

I've had several physio sessions and am fairly hopeful that core work (have weak glutes), stretching and lower mileage for a month or two will help me sort it.

I find that running on hills causes it to really flare up.

See link:

http://www.irishcycling.com/publish/news/art_4249.shtml

I'm finding stretch #1 quite good.

RAL3

tunney wrote: »

Its one of the most common and most frustrasting injuries that runners get. Once it flares up it is something that you will always have to deal with and you never get rid of it, only manage it. Based on gait, muscle balance and biomechanics some people get have ITB issues alot (me), while others run more and never get it (Hunnymonster).

Just came across this thread now - very informative.

I've completed 4 marathons and my knee started to feel sore 7 miles into a 10m run before Christmas (I was in the final miles of the 1000 m challenge). I had never heard of IT Band Syndrome before, whatever about suffering from it.

I was hoping to kick on this year training wise to improve on a pb of 3.28 and was pretty dejected when my knee started to feel sore. I was even more p'ed off when a visit to physio diagnosed it.

My question is - is it possible to sufficiently to manage an IT Band injury through the prescribed glute exercises, stretching etc., in order to put in the high mileage weeks and complete a marathon?

This is not a medical advice query but more to see what peoples experience has been?

Thanks in advance

TJC

I'm out injured too. Been back running proper since June/July. Legs were grand till after a few days on the snow/ice and also treadmill...
still sore and not even sure wat it is at the mo...but hopefully on road to recovery..

On the itb, i was injured with mine (other leg...hav 2 bogey legs!!!)
Although i did very liitle running on it, the exercises and especially the foamroller really helped. However, i was tryin to get fit to play football at the time...so dont know how it would affect someone preparing for a marathon..

gud luk with the recovery!!!

rigal

I'm in a very similar position RAL3.

The first time I had ITBS was in September while training for the Amsterdam Marathon (my 2nd marathon) in October. I had a few physio sessions in which dry needling was done on the right leg. It worked and got me through the training programme and the race (Ran it in 3:27 ).

I started running again a few weeks after the race and the ITBS has been there ever since. I've had more physio sessions, including dry needling which didn't work this time round, and I have also been given a core strengthening programme which I do 3-4 times a week. I'm also using a foam roller most days.

I am hoping to run Edinburgh in May but the highest weekly mileage I have managed since October is about 20-25 miles without the bands getting too tight. I'm not sure my legs will be able to do much more than that in the near future but I'll give it a try. If not, I'll probably take a break from running, maybe join a gym and get the core sorted once and for all.

If anyone on here has any other experiences to share I'd be interested to here them - especially if they have managed to sort the problem out..:)

OI

Does anyone know how to work on the tfl?

RAL3

Thanks for replies Rigal and TJC.

Rigal, I was a minute behind you in Amsterdam. There must be something in Vondelpark that affects the IT bands!!

I've been following a stretching and foam rolling regime for the last few weeks, did 5 miles yesterday and bands sore today, so it doesnt bode well for any longer runs for the moment.

I'm entered for the Raheny 5m but at this stage it looks like I'll have to leave it and take up knitting for the next few months.

Hope you get to do Edinburgh - good luck.

TJC

Can someone tell me how to fix an attachment to a pm please...