Scope type and usage question

Fireborn

Hi all,

Just a question RE scopes:

Whats the difference between ACOG, Holographic, red dot, and 'normal' scopes (and any other types i may have missed out)?

And which type of scope would be best for indoor CQB? and which best for a woodland site?

Fireborn

Phractal

I would say an EoTech (holographic) or open tube red dot for indoor, an ACOG for forest. If you want to snipe, an ACOG with zoom or a nice proper normal scope.

Fireborn

Ah right, cool well im aiming for a SOPMOD M4 so i'd imagine sniping is a literal and figurative long shot with one of them.

Firekitten

at 1j, upgraded its all relative actually...

Best all rounder would be an aimpoint. Works for woodland and close up. Though eotechs work in both too. Afterall, airsoft ranges are all inside nearly ANY scope use.

Phractal

One can snipe with an AEG... Except its more of a designated marksman role. I have stuck a scope on one of those before and it was 'acceptable', nothing compared to my VSR though.

Fireborn

Is there any particular type of Eotech scope I should ask for or do they only do one? Is it the same Eotech that the British Army asked to develop a replacement for the SUSAT?

So now I have an idea of the gun model and the scope I want, all I need now is to find out who makes a solid M4, what its weak points are and upgrade them. Any suggestions? (save me flooding the board with the thousands of questions in my head)

Then theres the sidearm questions and the kit questions..... :eek: lol.

Firekitten

One can snipe with a pea shooter technically...

One doesnt need a bolt action to snipe. The art itself, is not specific of weapon, just precision accuracy in shooting.

Masada

For CQB, I would prefer not to use add on sights at all, its close enough for it to be muscle memory and you'll gain so much more in field of vision without one.
If a sight is defo something you want though, Eotechs are the best for use in airsoft in my opinion.
Thanks to the wide open lens, you'll find it a lot more natural to aim through them without having to think about it. there's more to see through, and less to get in the way so it makes for a really nice sight to use. I wouldn't really bother with most other red dots out there, other than for their looks, and I own at least one of each and all.,:)

Fireborn

Hehehe. Ok cool. Im assuming that cos the m4 uses RIS, it's easy enough to just swap and change stuff like that?

Firekitten

If you have ris, put your optics on the top rail of the HANDGUARD, not the reciver.
It gives you optics, but a huge field of vision around it.

fasterkayote_

The problem with optics are they are very expensive like trijicon acogs $1500 . aimpoint T1 400 euro, holographic eotec 300 euro cheapest. That is if your after the real deal. Theres one airsofter i know who has a T1 and eotech both totals 1000 euro.

Dread-Lock

Or you could buy the airsoft versions for €70.

I personally like the Aimpoint, thats just me. I would suggest you choose the optics that you like.

Phractal

Masada: Not to derail the topic but... Muscles dont have memory - the term 'muscle memory' has been proven time and time again to be a load of ****e HOWEVER what you suggest is true - that repeated training DOES cause some degree of automation and effective response - this is because the action becomes part of your 'response' or 'instinctive response' part of the brain. Training constantly is like programming yourself - look up 'instinctive shooting' or 'point shooting'.

You can, within a inch ot two, point your finger at something in your pheripheral vision. Now, you just train (with pistol) that barrel is your finger and you will be able to take 'snapshots' very well in CQB. With rifle, the barrel is the pointer finger = snapshots.

Thats what 'instinctive firing' or 'reflex shooting' is, the old name was 'muscle memory' and the theory was that your muscles 'remember' but it is simple biology that muscles dont remember ****, so 'muscle memory' is now considered BS, reactive/instinctive/reflex shooting is the current model for training.

Now thats all well and good... And yes, I will agree with Masada that the EoTech makes reflexive shooting harder - in fact it is often said by Active Response shooters (SWAT, HRT, etc) that in CQB the EoTech slows you down and makes it take you a bit longer to 'sight in'. However, at the ranges in which sights can be used and make a difference - where point and shoot just wont cut it any more - the EoTech really pays off.

A laser is very useful in CQB as I find that the trick is to combine it with 'point and shoot' and 'point gun at bad guy, laser is on, put the dot on the bad guy, squeeze'.

At longer ranges, the EoTech loses its usefulness IMHO and a 4x ACOG becomes far more useful.

Co-witnessing your optics and iron sights is very useful as it means that if the optic fails, or is 'washed out' by light conditions, you have iron sights sighted in ANYWAY.

pump

Fireborn wrote: »

Ah right, cool well im aiming for a SOPMOD M4 so i'd imagine sniping is a literal and figurative long shot with one of them.

hey i have a t.m. sopmod M4 myself just get a decent g&p 4x32 red dot scope and you will have them running for cover

Witcher

O....K...moving on from the science lesson....An Eotech is probably the best all rounder, it has a very clear reticle and a good field of vision through it also if you want to have a bit of magnification you could throw a flip to side magnifier in front of it that would do this:)

Most important thing as always with these decisions is go with what you like yourself:)

birdman 1979

For indoor i use a aim point (red dot) you can pick one up handy enough. I have played G-Tac 2, plenty of times and it works well esp when you are useing a full face mask, in low light. Just get a high mount for it, so you can look look down sight when you are wareing full face.

Firekitten

At airsoft range, magnificatrion is only really useful for observation.



Phractal: Nobody, masada included belives the fibers of your muslces remember anything. Muscle memory is a coloqual reference to 'remembering' yourself, how far you extend your muscles for a certain task. Its why you do things a certain way after having to do it that way nomatter the reason. Its mental, but it effects muscle use.

The science may be hinky, but the practicality is real. Very Real. We all have examples of it.

Puding

when i learned about muscle memory it was about learning a skill until it is second nature and your able to perform the task with minimal mental process so your able to focus on other things while performing the task, from my sport science i can not remember the tech terms (been such a long time since i;ve had to use it)

doing an activity so many time it becomes a habitual response, commonly referred to as muscle memory, well how i learned it anyway

its no myth its how we do a lot of day to day tasks, typing would be a good example, i beat we can all type and focus on somthing else at the same time

Firekitten

Puding wrote: »

its no myth its how we do a lot of day to day tasks, typing would be a good example, i beat we can all type and focus on somthing else at the same time

yup, you remember where to put your fingers. Its no more obvious than in me... I touch type. Never look at the keyboard. i use it in lectures... look at lecturer and pay attention while silently dictating it all into word in real time. Its a blessing... and deffiantely learned. Going from my usual laptop keyboard to a pc keyboard always screws me up... i get the finger spacing wrong for a few days. Its very real.

Masada

Phtactal, It took you 500words to make no point. You spend farrrr too much time on google mate.,

Phractal

Masada: I was merely pointing out the correct, modern terminology. ANd as a matter of fact I never bothered to google it, I just had that information stored in the back of my mind... Along with over a billion other useless bits of eratta

Puding: You make a real good point there, and thats what I was kinda getting at.

ANYWAYS... Back on topic for me:

Perhaps diopter sights for iron sights (I think thats what you call em) like on an MP5 - I find the peep sights + post on Armalites a pain in the ass because it takes my eyes a moment to adjust and find the bloody tiny post! This could be due to mt sh*t eyesght... But I find the sights on a MP5/G3/G36 far easier to use for fast reactive shooting.

Leftyflip

Why can't you just point and shoot?
I only use a scope on my Bar-10 and thats only cos it came with the rifle...

Leftyflip

Masada wrote: »

Phtactal, It took you 500words to make no point. You spend farrrr too much time on google mate.,

Richie, you counted?
Far too much time on your hands...

Phractal

Leftyflip wrote: »

Why can't you just point and shoot?
I only use a scope on my Bar-10 and thats only cos it came with the rifle...

I believe part of me big dissertation was about pointing and shooting... The method I currently use. But, for example, if you are trying to take a shot over longer range where point and shoot is too inaccurate, and you are using iron sights (like myself at the moment) you gotta be comfortable with said iron sights. Thats just my opinion though. My scope is relagated to the VSR at the moment.