Wifes Focus 1.6TDCI cuts out under load.

mullingar

My wife was driving home from work and after 30 mins of driving the car it cut out when she tried to accelerate.

It starts up fine, idle is perfect, revving it when stationary what I think takes a little longer to 'spin-up' than normal. No smoke.

I drove it home got it to 50mph for 5 miles only tipping the accelerator. When nearly home I reproduced it intentionally.

Forgot to say 06 UK import 110bhp

(Same engine as the peugeot/citroen 1.6 hdi)

Any ideas?

Water in fuel system?

Thanks boardies!

spadder

Dirty filter or else the diesel is freezing

mullingar

spadder wrote: »

Dirty filter or else the diesel is freezing

Thats what I thought, but she drove it to work this morning with -7C on the dash. It was -3 when it cut out this evening.

Have not put any diesel in it recently (still half tank)

Row

Hi mullingar,
Is there a mil light showing...??
I have the same engine in my 407 which are usally very good.
It could be related to the egr valve....Or the maf sensor....
Ideally you need to see if there are any p codes logged in the
engine ecu which may leed you in the right direction...:)
Ron.

Remember these have dpf's which can cause problems around 100kish...

GTE

Is the turbo spinning like it should?

mullingar

Checked engine codes, there was a P0000, which I cleared (I believe it means no fault found).

Turbo unknown as cant get the load up to test it.

72k on her

paddy2008

egr valve gives that trouble on those engines!

mullingar

paddy2008 wrote: »

egr valve gives that trouble on those engines!

Would that not throw up an error code?

paddy2008

No code! engine same as suzuki sx4 ,came across this once and changed the egr valve.work in suzuki dealer and instructed be suzuki ireland as this being a problem, new egr must also be programed to the vehicle!

mullingar

Thanks for the feedback.

Any simple way on checking the EGR valve?

tin79

Is there a DMF in that Focus? In my wifes Mondeo TDCI she had the same problem, turned out that the DMF was on the way out and the DMF was damaged so badly that it was wobbling around. at high revs the movement got so bad that the sensor could no longer pick up the TDC (top dead centre, i think) points on the flywheel and cut out. was happening around 3000 revs or just over

spadder

spadder wrote: »

Dirty filter or else the diesel is freezing

The diesel will not be freezing.

paddy2008

mullingar wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback.

Any simple way on checking the EGR valve?

its an electronic valve cant check with out diagnostic equipment.your local ford dealer would be ur best bet and believe it or not ur cheapest,you will be told try this and that,the ford computer and the experance of a ford mechanic that will know ur engine inside/out!This will end up be the quickest way out.

mullingar

Idle and high revs are vibration free (as good as a diesel can get), I doubt its the DMF.

It revs smoothly too (but not as free-revving as it should).

It seems to be a air/fuel/egr fault, but which??

mullingar

paddy2008 wrote: »

its an electronic valve cant check with out diagnostic equipment.your local ford dealer would be ur best bet and believe it or not ur cheapest,you will be told try this and that,the ford computer and the experance of a ford mechanic that will know ur engine inside/out!This will end up be the quickest way out.

Thanks Paddy, you must know these engines!

What price range would it cost to change the EGR (if it is) ? (I dont want to be screwed by the stealership)

Row

What code reader are you reading the faults with...??
As said above egr faults don't alway bring up faults....:rolleyes:

I did a how to guide on the removal/cleaning the egr valve on the
1.6hdi (dv6) a few months ago.
Heres the link.... but you will have to sign up to view it.
http://www.407owners.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1797

Your engine should be the same...:)
heres a pic of the egr valve i position.
Ron.

paddy2008

Yes that will be the same engine.Cant remember price but are crazy money and i mean crazy!

Row

tin79 wrote: »

Is there a DMF in that Focus? In my wifes Mondeo TDCI she had the same problem, turned out that the DMF was on the way out and the DMF was damaged so badly that it was wobbling around. at high revs the movement got so bad that the sensor could no longer pick up the TDC (top dead centre, i think) points on the flywheel and cut out. was happening around 3000 revs or just over

I have heard of this happening on the 1.6 hdi engine also.....:(
another possibly cause..

Row

paddy2008 wrote: »

Yes that will be the same engine.Cant remember price but are crazy money and i mean crazy!

Around the €350 mark plus fitting and configuring....:eek:

Paddy...if the egr valve was fully open would it not be very smokie...

paddy2008

always possible:D:D:D

paddy2008

no smoke,driving down the road next thing f***ing thing cuts out, starts up again drive down road and again cut out,no fault code so wee phone call made and fit new egr and perfect job:eek:

Row

I'm thinking as above it could be dmf related...maybe worth checking the crank shaft sensor...live data ideally.

Row

paddy2008 wrote: »

no smoke,driving down the road next thing f***ing thing cuts out, starts up again drive down road and again cut out,no fault code so wee phone call made and fit new egr and perfect job:eek:

Thats what you call a right pain....:rolleyes:
with mine i was feeling a slight hesitation around 1800-2200 rpm..after i cleaned the sh1t from the egr valve its been fine since....:)

paddy2008

explain dmf? we call them dpf diesel particulate filter

Row

paddy2008 wrote: »

explain dmf? we call them dpf diesel particulate filter

Dual mass flywheel...All Peugeot/Citroen 1.6 hdi/20 hdi have them fitted
and most new diesels on the road today.....bad engineering decision.

paddy2008

Sorry f***ing sleeping hear,the cold has the better of me:D
can you feel a viberation the pedal if half clutched and switch the car off and start it again?had a couple of fly wheels faulty like this on other cars

mullingar

I took it out for another spin as its cold to diagnose a bit more.

Plenty of power now so it cant be the MAF or fuel, the only thing left is the EGR as i believe EGR's only works when the engine is in operating temp.

Paddy, was that SX4 you worked on have a very dirty/carbonised egr?

mullingar

Ron,

Some fab pics on that Diy link. Great work

Row

No probs....hope it helps....;)
One thing about refitting the egr is it can be awkward to get the bolts and steel gasket fitted at the same time....it takes time and some f-ing and
blinding....:D:D
Ron.

mullingar

Row wrote: »

No probs....hope it helps....;)
One thing about refitting the egr is it can be awkward to get the bolts and steel gasket fitted at the same time....it takes time and some f-ing and
blinding....:D:D
Ron.

I had a look at the engine, mmmm, a bit tight at the back to gain access to the EGR. Also the air manifold layout is very different.

Row

mullingar wrote: »

I had a look at the engine, mmmm, a bit tight at the back to gain access to the EGR. Also the air manifold layout is very different.

Not sure of the focus but on the 307 1.6 hdi's the bulkhead covers the air filter box which makes it very difficult to gain access ..:rolleyes:
maybe if you got it up on a lift it maybe easier from the bottom....
Nice job for Saturday...:eek:...:D
Ron.

mullingar

Row/Paddy,

I went home for lunch and I took the car out on the M6 between Mullingar & Kinnegad, road was nicely thawed and temp reading was +3C so I floored it 60 to 90 repeatedly where the sun was shining so thats a 20k round trip.

I could not repeat the fault. It was 99% perfect with only a tiny hesitation around the 80mph mark under full acceleration, so could it be as simple as the fuel filter gunged up?

No error codes, no limp home mode etc, etc.

Then I went back to work I took the Focus (I work 2 miles from home) to try to reproduce the fault and this time it did cut out when I floored it. It started on the button and NO smoke what so ever.

mullingar

I just checked the fuel filter bowl as suggested by a mechanic. He said there is a dummy sensor connector on the side of the bowl near the base of the housing and see if there is any gunk in there. (He also advised that it will be difficult to restart as the system will now have some air in it).

Nothing, nada, bone dry.

Row/Paddy, any ideas???

Row

Thats going to take some good diagnostic work to get to the bottom of that one.
If you know someone with ford diagnostics or equivalent equipment the maybe able to plugin take the car for a run ,record and monitor the fuel pressure,maf readings etc as you drive and see if things look abnormal.

Or as paddy said above it could the egr valve acting up...which sometimes don't throw up fault codes.
Ron.

paddy2008

Mullingar suzuki have only used these engines for the last 18 months or so, this is the only cutting out fault iv heard with them any car with this fault was still under warenty so never thought about it to much,off with the old on with the new,programed it bobs your unckle perfect job.

mullingar

paddy2008 wrote: »

Mullingar suzuki have only used these engines for the last 18 months or so, this is the only cutting out fault iv heard with them any car with this fault was still under warenty so never thought about it to much,off with the old on with the new,programed it bobs your unckle perfect job.

Suzuki quote that engine as 1586cc . The ford/Peugeot engine is 1560cc.

Are you sure it's the same engine? Or is it 'similar'

paddy2008

Same engine iv serviced focus, peugeot/citron and fiat all look the same and use the same filters.

mullingar

paddy2008 wrote: »

Same engine iv serviced focus, peugeot/citron and fiat all look the same and use the same filters.

is this the most shared engine ever?

We have:
Peugeot
Citroën
ford
Mazda
mini
fiat
now Suzuki!!:eek:

GTE

Is Mini not under the BMW umbrella?

paddy2008

The fiat and suzuki are actually the same car with different badges sssshhhhhhhh:eek::eek::D:D

Rackstar

I've had 2 1.6TDCI Focus's Both 06 models.

This has happened to both of them.

Happened on the motorway both times, just when I was trying to get up some speed to merge with traffic. Top speed about 50kph when it happens and the car will only rev to about 2kprm.

Both cars sorted themselves out. The first on the diesel light had come on a couple of mins before it happened and so I was on the way for fuel, after filling up the car was fine again and the proplem never happened again. Drove it for a further 50k km.

The second one happened on the way home on the motorway just before my exit so I drove it home with the intention of bringing it to a mechanic the next morning. Next morning it drove fine, it was due a service the week after so I brought it in and asked them to check the issue with losing power. Mechanic couldn't offer a reason for it. Have 40k km up on this one since and it hasn't happened again.

Another guy in work also had this happen to him on the same model same year focus and the garage couldn't offer him any reason for it. His had this problem frequently, once a month maybe.

maidhc

mullingar wrote: »

is this the most shared engine ever?

It has become almost the "standard" car engine in Europe I think. Lovely engine it is too.

mullingar

Ron / Paddy

I got another OBD reader and it was showing a 2 EGR faults, so I decided to strip it and clean it. However, I cant get the fecker out.

Its held in with this clip:

How can I open it with out damaging it?????

Row

Looks a different clip to mine....I think those clips need a special tool
like a pliers to compress the clamp but maybe if you slide it apart it
may do the job for you....The only thing is it could be a fecker to refit it afterwards.....:rolleyes:
The adjustable clamp is a better if you could pick one up...:)

What p codes did you get from the code reader....??

Heres the clamp on mine...

mullingar

I somehow managed to get it out, but I will be buying a clamp the same style as yours!

I took it apart, the roller piston thingy is seized solid, no rotating movement what-so-ever.

The WD-40 is out now, cleaning as I type......

Row

mullingar wrote: »

I somehow managed to get it out, but I will be buying a clamp the same style as yours!

I took it apart, the roller piston thingy is seized solid, no rotating movement what-so-ever.

The WD-40 is out now, cleaning as I type......

Best of luck with it....;)....The motor part should be spring return...
did you check out the guide on www.407owners.com/forums ...??

mullingar

SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Free as a bird now!!!

To finish the job, a trip to the motor factors and buy a new clamp and a can of EGR cleaner (failing that carb cleaner)

If it works its € 300-400 better in my pocket!!!!

Thanks again Ron / Paddy

Row

mullingar wrote: »

SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Free as a bird now!!!

To finish the job, a trip to the motor factors and buy a new clamp and a can of EGR cleaner (failing that carb cleaner)

If it works its € 300-400 better in my pocket!!!!

Thanks again Ron / Paddy

Great stuff....Well Done...;)

mullingar

Row wrote: »

Best of luck with it....;)....The motor part should be spring return...
did you check out the guide on www.407owners.com/forums ...??

Row,

Yes those pics/DIY were a huge help.

Regards the motor, there seems to be a notch when I rotate the motor about 60 degrees from its natural stop. The motor does turn 90 degrees in full.

This must be designed into it for some reason as the valve only needs 60 degrees from fully open to fully closed.

Row

The motor has a built in Potentiometer for the world which measures the position of the egr valve when opening/closing.
afaik when you get a new egr valve fitted the position needs to programmed
or set up by the diagnostic tool so it knows its position..but the fact that you cleaned yours it should not need to be set up...:)
Ron.

paddy2008

Well lad, hows it running know.Did you get the clamp sorted,i use a pair of these