Episode 1 - The Nudie Man - 11/01

Bloomsday

snow ghost wrote: »

Say it now, I gave it a very honest review.

I'll concede the editing wasn't perfect... but then given the resource constraints compared to say a high budget TV production, I wouldn't expect Hollywood standards, would you?

No amount of high budget production could save this ruddy mess. Say it Now mentioned some basics of good filming technique, which were missing from Covies.

It doesn't take big hollywood bucks to frame a shot.

The script is woeful too.

snow ghost wrote: »

I found the script to be excellent. TV production and screenwriting are two different things, so perhaps you don't understand the ingredients of a brilliant script? I'm sure the TV production crew to Jamie Oliver programs don't fully understand what he is throwing together... but the proofs in the pudding as they say... if it tastes good at the end of it who cares about the recipe?

Brilliant script? A boy selling stained towels? A ****ty LoTR reference? Don't delude yourself, this film should have been a pudding. At least puddings have low production value and taste good.

snow ghost wrote: »

Watching The Covies was like eating the meal of your life cooked in someone’s home as opposed to a top London restaurant with all the bells and whistles.

So you're arguement is "its homely, not...good?"

snow ghost wrote: »

All the production in the world can’t hide bad art… in contrast a piece of genius will always shine through… that is why Lennon’s Imagine, me mother’s cooking and The Covies will be remembered and appreciated long after Jason Donavon songs, dinners at pretentious city restaurants and 'Ireland’s Got Talent' will be forgotten.

Ah yes, we'll all remember covies, it's down there with Fatal Deviation, and the last time we drank sour milk.

Stookan

Obviously "Say it now" and "Bloomsday" expect perfection in everything... The Covies is no worse than most of the crap on RTE. Only that millions of tax payers money wasnt wasted on The Covies.

snow ghost

Bloomsday,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just out of interest what is your opinion of Brendan Behan's thoughts on critics?

"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves."[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
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Nebit

I find it quite amusing that 'say it now' and 'bloom...' think that an online soap should be Shakespeare, do they think that the writers of soaps such as Emmerdale Farm who write about bombs, murders etc again and again are masters of scriptwriting?? ... No!

Fact is the masses prefer action, drama etc, so please get over yourselves.
You are talking about a man who has won an award for a play he wrote and which has been shown elsewhere in the world, your also talking about a man that has wrote numerous speeches which have been publicised to the masses.

The LOTR's reference was expected, that very fact would make it amusing to some!!

The fact these people only have 3 posts between them suggests to me their just here for the wind up and piss take!

Bloomsday

snow ghost wrote: »

Bloomsday,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion
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I'm glad you think so. Though I often find people who quote the opinions of others to be quite shallow.

Obviously "Say it now" and "Bloomsday" expect perfection in everything...

Don't be stupid, I expect people to do the best they can with what they've got. If you've got a camera, its admirable to aspire for the best shot, which wasn't done here.

The Covies is no worse than most of the crap on RTE.

Don't set your standards here, just because its no worse, doesn't mean it cant be better.

You are talking about a man who has won an award for a play he wrote and which has been shown elsewhere in the world, your also talking about a man that has wrote numerous speeches which have been publicised to the masses.

Please tell me you're joking. For all i know he could have written great stuff before Covies, but the script of Covies leads me to believe otherwise.

The LOTR's reference was expected, that very fact would make it amusing to some!!

Its true that you can't make everyone laugh, however I found the reference to be in bad taste.
This is my opinion.

The fact these people only have 3 posts between them suggests to me their just here for the wind up and piss take!

Don't limit my opinion to my post count, only a closed minded person would think this.

I'm sure you wish it was a pisstake but it's not, this is a legitimate account.

Good day, Covies defense force!

Fatboydim

Bloomsday wrote: »

Don't be stupid, I expect people to do the best they can with what they've got. If you've got a camera, its admirable to aspire for the best shot, which wasn't done here


Its true that you can't make everyone laugh, however I found the reference to be in bad taste.

This is my opinion.


Good day, Covies defense force!

I wasn't going to reply to you Bloomsday - Because at a guess I'd say you're around nineteen years old and with very little experience of life. It's absolutely fine for you to hold opinions, but you shouldn't treat opinion as fact.

For example what makes you think that the camera operator did not aspire to make the best shot? What do you know of the circumstances of that shot? For example do you know what cameras were used? Do you know if we had a monitor or not? Do you know if we had lighting? Do you know the limitations of the location? Do you know the time constraints? Do you know if every other take was spoiled by boom being in shot? Actor fluffing line? Lightbulb exploding? Airplane flying overhead? Car driving past? Well the list goes on.... you get the idea. I don't dispute sometimes the framing is off. I don't dispute one shot may cross the line though on action sequences it is allowable - whether it's liked or not is another matter - sometimes you just have to go with what serves the production best. You will in the course of Covies no doubt spot several errors of continuity, sound hiccups, line fluffs, etc etc... But to suggest that this is down to some kind of laziness on the part of the cast or crew is plainly wrong.

You see anyone who has any experience in production will know what an amazing achievement it was to turnover two hours worth of drama in three weeks with a budget of nothing. Because everyone volunteered their time there were many restrictions on both cast and crew... restrictions that would never normally occur on a set. Sometimes we had a literal ten minutes to get a shot.

By all means hate it / slate it - but be informed.

As for your comment that the reference to LOTR is in bad taste

Not funny maybe - bad taste? - Only for the actor who had to bite a raw fish.

Your last line however leads me to believe that this is just a case of trolling. So I would suggest that no one bothers to bite.
This will be my only response as I just wanted to defend my cameramen.

thepilgrim

"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp - or what's a heaven for?"

My general thought on the production.
Flawed, yes.
Perfect, no.
Admirable, DEFINITELY!

To even attempt this production was a bold and brave move. To manage to produce it to such a high standard is a fantastic achievement and commendable.

Honestly, I despise every piece of "drama" produced by RTE/TV3 . Terrible production values and the same ugly, overweight actors/actresses (maybe in person they look good but they are NOT photogenic) used ad infinitum but the main problem as far as I am concerned is the quality (or lack thereof) of the scripts.

The quality of scriptwriting in this country is atrocious. I am not talking about writing material for the stage, in that discipline we excel. The standard of writing for Film and TV is APPALLING. Horrible cliched, hackneyed characters and situations being regurgitated time and time again. "Comedy" sketches lifted in their ENTIRETY from foreign shows and repackaged and delivered/mangled by one of The Usual Suspects from that Golden (Shower) Circle of Irish thespians.

I honestly did not know what to expect when I started watching The Covies but found myself going WTF immediately. Trust me, it was a GOOD WTF . Meaning I was surprised, I did not know what was going on, I was interested in seeing where it was going and what was going to happen with the characters. It looked great (Westport vistas helped here no doubt!) too. To produce this with a budget of less than 500 Euros per minute is a great achievement.

I have no attachment to any of the cast or crew involved with this production but I am involved in the industry. Normally I begrudge every bit of applause received by the latest Irish sit-com/drama etc. , which is clapped on by the usual shower of media sycophants. Yet another case of the Emperor's got no clothes on but everyone choosing to disregard the fact.

However, I am delighted to see someone having the balls to try something like The Covies and having the wherewithal to instill enough belief in others that they would donate their time and talents gratis.

Well Done to Everyone Involved. Please excuse the venting!;)

The P

P.S. TG4 have produced some interesting dramas in the recent past - is there someting in the water in the west?

Bloomsday

Fatboydim wrote: »

I wasn't going to reply to you Bloomsday - Because at a guess I'd say you're around nineteen years old and with very little experience of life. It's absolutely fine for you to hold opinions, but you shouldn't treat opinion as fact.

It's easy enough to look at my only other post to see that i did the leaving cert last year, so your "guess" isn't far off the mark.

Our opinion is what we believe to be true, but I am not as concieted to think that my opinion is the be all and end all, so please don't assume this.

Do I really need to know the specs of a camera to know if a scene was shot badly? Surely not.

Fatboydim wrote: »

You see anyone who has any experience in production...

The effort put into making Covies is impressive, and I'm not taking away from that. However, you talk much of experience, yet you employ admittedly inexperienced actors and cameramen?

Fatboydim wrote: »

...what an amazing achievement it was to turnover two hours worth of drama in three weeks with a budget of nothing.

A couple thousand?

I like to think I have a fair idea of the difficulties of filming. I watched your production diaries and got a sense of what you all went through. I cannot hold my experience of filming up to yours, yet you write me off as uninformed because I've spoken my mind about Covies?

Why open a discussion board about your film if you don't wish to discuss it?

Stookan

Dear Bloomsday,

First of all dont call me stupid! What do you mean they didnt do the best with what they had? How on earth would you know?? Now that is stupid!!

I love how you only quoted part of what I said especially since you said people who quote are shallow... What I said was its no worse than that except the budget was tiny. As I was there myself for alot of it I know that everybody did give it their best and were very passionate ESPECIALLY the crew.

"Covies Defense Force"??? ohh what a childish way out of a debate.

Fatboydim

Bloomsday wrote: »

Our opinion is what we believe to be true, but I am not as concieted to think that my opinion is the be all and end all, so please don't assume this.

Actually yes you are - otherwise you would realise that opinion is not the same as fact. Fact: Framing of shot is bad. Opinion: It's bad because they didn't aspire to the best shot

Bloomsday wrote: »

Do I really need to know the specs of a camera to know if a scene was shot badly? Surely not.

Actually yes. Plus all the other relevant factors.

Bloomsday wrote: »

The effort put into making Covies is impressive, and I'm not taking away from that. However, you talk much of experience, yet you employ admittedly inexperienced actors and cameramen?

Employ is a strange word here as everyone involved did so on a voluntary basis. Most technicians want to be paid and rightly so. You don't appear to want to cut these guys any slack. I really don't care if you hate Covies... that's not the point. But a great many people gave a great deal of time for this and you are disrespecting them.

Bloomsday wrote: »

A couple thousand?

I like to think I have a fair idea of the difficulties of filming. I watched your production diaries and got a sense of what you all went through. I cannot hold my experience of filming up to yours, yet you write me off as uninformed because I've spoken my mind about Covies?

No not at all. The video diaries show about ten percent of the story. I've no issue whatsoever with your opinions on Covies - only with your assumption that production crew were not aspiring to do their very very best. That is all.

Bloomsday wrote: »

Why open a discussion board about your film if you don't wish to discuss it?

I have no problem discussing it. But a discussion is not really what you are aiming for. The only reason I'm replying here is I do not wish to appear rude, as I want to reply to Pilgrim.

I'm not going to enter into arguments - ostensibly because I value criticism A] No matter where it comes from and B] no matter whether it is positive or negative.

You're clearly intelligent so you don't have to make assumptions.

Fatboydim

And I just wanted to thank thePilgrim

A nice post and appreciated.

I think I actually calculated that our costs were €220 per minute.
Compared to the average RTE sponsored Storyland entrants who get 8k per episode which works out at over**€1k per minute.

Average ep of Eastenders used to be around *€10k per minute - The Bill at about €13k per minute
and Ultimate Force was around *€22k per minute.

Nebit

Bloomsday wrote: »

Please tell me you're joking. For all i know he could have written great stuff before Covies, but the script of Covies leads me to believe otherwise.

Don't limit my opinion to my post count, only a closed minded person would think this.

Good day, Covies defense force!

The very fact you say this leads me to believe you haven't even read about the writer and therefore you are misinformed and the critique of the person as a bad scriptwriter is void. The script may not be his best but lets face it, we are talking about a soap here! as i said it doesn't require shakespeare.

You have me very wrong if you want to call me a closed minded person!! In fact i would be the least close minded person you'd ever met.
You seem to be close minded in your so called 'veiws', as you don't seem to be able to comprehend that, no! It's not going to be perfect especially when everyone on the team did this is their free time and for no money whats so ever!!

Do you know how far a budget of 24,000 goes ??? i doubt it. It goes nowhere, it's barely enough to buy worthy equipment, lights, cameras, sound, editing equipment. Research this then comment on the budget. Again misinformed!

The very last sentence of you post proves you immaturity.

thepilgrim

Your welcome Fatboydim. Although I would be just as forthcoming with constructive criticism

Remember: The only thing worse than being talked about...

Keep up the good work. Once you are winning more than you lose you are on the right road.

The P

snow ghost

Bloomsday wrote: »

I'm glad you think so. Though I often find people who quote the opinions of others to be quite shallow.

Bloomsday, that'd be most of the population of the world at some point or other, e.g. in writing the above post you just qouted my opinion above it. Go and have a good think about what that reveals about you.


The Pilgrim,

Very well said.

Bloomsday

Stookan wrote: »

How on earth would you know?? Now that is stupid!!

I love how you only quoted part of what I said especially since you said people who quote are shallow...

"Covies Defense Force"???

It's forum etiquette to quote and refute. You misunderstood me, I wrote "...quoting others opinions", as in substituting opinionated quotes for their own.

But nevermind my argument in this post, I'm sure you'll go on with more confused and idiotic retorts involving more question/exclamation marks then required, further revealing your profound stupidity.

snow ghost wrote: »

Go and have a good think about what that reveals about you.

Aren't you a clever boy?

So far, i've realised I'm arguing against a roomfull of people who find it difficult to defend their atrocious film.

Fatboydim wrote: »

Actually yes. Plus all the other relevant factors.

Actually no. You are so awfully biased to this film, that you won't accept my viewpoint on a bad shot, however you accept the compliments of the poster in this thread, whose only experience is of WATCHING LOTS OF TELLY!

MyPennysWorth wrote: »

I dont have expereince in production, however I do watch a lot of films and tv....

If I went apple scrumping with you, yet I had no experience of picking fresh apples, you wouldn't allow me to criticize how you picked the apples (even after you fell on your arse and the apples went everywhere! Oh no!) because only someone like you, who has had years of scrumping experience would know the mechanics of scrumping.

I find this bizarre.

But a great many people gave a great deal of time for this and you are disrespecting them.

If a man spent 10 hours a day eating his own faeces, and worked hard, I mean really hard to gobble up that **** day in and day out, am I disrespecting him in saying he shouldn't be eating **** in the first place?

snow ghost

I watched this 1st episode again after seeing the second episode.

Have to say I particularly like the music, used in the series... loved the tony reidy song in episode 2, the opening title music and the song in episode one where Patrick is roaming around... who sings that?

Fatboydim

The song is called "I Know" by Glasgow band Kaster.

Joseph Conlan is the composer of all the incidental music - opening titles and credits.

Misterboyle

Bloomsday I Like how you ended your last post about faeces

A man talking ****, talking about ****

Enjoy the rest of the covies

lordgoat

Good episode and well done to all involved. Great use of the local scenery too...

vard

Bloomsday wrote: »

It's forum etiquette to quote and refute. You misunderstood me, I wrote "...quoting others opinions", as in substituting opinionated quotes for their own.

But nevermind my argument in this post, I'm sure you'll go on with more confused and idiotic retorts involving more question/exclamation marks then required, further revealing your profound stupidity.



Aren't you a clever boy?

So far, i've realised I'm arguing against a roomfull of people who find it difficult to defend their atrocious film.




Actually no. You are so awfully biased to this film, that you won't accept my viewpoint on a bad shot, however you accept the compliments of the poster in this thread, whose only experience is of WATCHING LOTS OF TELLY!




If I went apple scrumping with you, yet I had no experience of picking fresh apples, you wouldn't allow me to criticize how you picked the apples (even after you fell on your arse and the apples went everywhere! Oh no!) because only someone like you, who has had years of scrumping experience would know the mechanics of scrumping.

I find this bizarre.




If a man spent 10 hours a day eating his own faeces, and worked hard, I mean really hard to gobble up that **** day in and day out, am I disrespecting him in saying he shouldn't be eating **** in the first place?

Alright there buddy, lets chill out on the disect and quote each line routine.

I'm one of the actors in The Covies. You wouldn't have seen much of me yet, but that's irrelevant.

I'm going to try avoid the temptation of spending any more time than I'm bothered with wasting on responding to your ****e - just scanning up to the top of the page here I see you've come up with some classy analogies where you talk about people eating their own faeces. Now, I'm going to guess that they sounded a little cleverer in your head. So, perhaps - when you respond to this post with another lovable anecdote you might like to think of something else, and then maybe, y'know, just proof read it so you don't sound like a complete and utter retard.

The reason I'm bothering to reply to you is nothing due to your opinion of the production. It's your attitude, plain and simple. Arguing like a child throwing his toys out of the pram - it's pathetic. I honestly can't bear to read half of what you write - but I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's the same childish ****e all the way through.

In so far as that opinion of yours is concerned, I actually agree with you on some levels. I thought the first episode was rather weak and underwhelming overall - there were some sound issues and in some cases I wasn't liking the acting. Though, with this being a soap... and one filmed with all the constraints that you seem so intent on ignoring, it is granted that it will need to find its roots. That said, I felt the potential was always there, and the plot and introduction to the story itself, I found engaging.

Since that first episode though I feel more at ease. The 2nd one smoothed over some of the niggles which had initially bothered me - and I'm happy to say that I was actually very impressed with the most recent. I'm very quick to slate anything which I'm involved in, and I can honestly say that I couldn't find anything worth a critics note.

Len has said already, his job requires criticism. He'll take any criticism you give him. It's just when that criticism is delivered by a ranting clown over the internet - it gets a little hard to palate.
I'd say the fact he hasn't decided to ignore you or told you what you deserve to hear just goes to show that as fact.





I'll remain anonymous for now, but I'd like to say well done to you Len. You've created something to be proud of, and I really am delighted to have been a part of it.
I really was impressed with todays episode, and I'm looking forward to what's to come.

DeVore

Bloomsday et al...

Exactly what are you comparing us to?


Cos if its fully funded broadcast quality TV.... then I appreciate the complement!

DeV.

johnnyskeleton

Well done all, a few funny scenes, good start to a series with a few funny moments and a good setup for the plot to unravel. Particularly liked the pacing and the little background touches.

A slight gripe would be that the accents seem to come from across the country (and one girl sounds English) and I found myself turning the volume on my speakers up and down depending on whether there was background music or characters interacting. But other than that it is as good as if not better than anything on rte.

snow ghost

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

A slight gripe would be that the accents seem to come from across the country (and one girl sounds English)

That'd be a fairly accurate representation of modern day Westport accents... it's a fairly cosmopolitan town, especially with English accents, because of high emigration lots of Westport and Mayo people emigrated to England, had families over there and brought them back, etc.

I know what you mean about accents in general though, many Irish films have an horrendous amount of regional accents when they might be set in a small town in the 1950's, maybe we notice but people outside Ireland don't?

DeVore

Also, with the budget contraints things like "can this person act" "are they willing to act for up to 2 weeks on location without being paid" "do they look even vaguely like the character"


Believe me, ticking those boxes put you in a very strong position to get the part and we were lucky to have one person fulfil those criteria. If they had a limerick or dublin accent..... well beggars cant be chosers


Hence my point above. Bloomsday is comparing us to full quality TV and full budget productions. Thats a compliment.

DeV.

inisboffin

I actually agree, and found it a strength rather than a weakness, to have some different accents, and this reflect Westport in its diversity of accents. It drives me mad to hear a lot of 'badly faked' accents in tv shows. I find it way more believable (just like real life) to leave the actor's own accent - say English - and have that be a part of the character.

I don't think it was to do with budget restraints at all really. Accents are usually the last thing that come into play for casting (just look at Holllywood!:P). In saying that, I do believe there are a couple of actors playing WAY far from their own accent, but I bet they don't stand out as 'accents' at all. I think that was more a choice than a necessity.

johnnyskeleton

inisboffin wrote: »

I actually agree, and found it a strength rather than a weakness, to have some different accents, and this reflect Westport in its diversity of accents. It drives me mad to hear a lot of 'badly faked' accents in tv shows. I find it way more believable (just like real life) to leave the actor's own accent - say English - and have that be a part of the character.

Fair enough, maybe I'm thinking of castlebar :pac:

inisboffin

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Fair enough, maybe I'm thinking of castlebar :pac:

Aasy now, my Grandda was a Fishhead!:p

Mitchconnor

This is bizarre. I know its an old thread but i just heard of The Covies when I stumbled upon it online. This seems to have been filled with friends of the production and people too nice or afraid to criticise.
This isn't a good show. There's no spark, no passion, nothing feels authentic or real, one simple example is this beautiful young actress with the abusive husband. I don't understand the situation, she looks about 25, she's a stunning girl who gives nothing but the impression through her looks, her dress and the way she holds herself as being a strong, independent, cosmopolitan woman. I'm sorry but the idea of her being a put upon country wife just isn't credible. No doubt her arc is to get away from him, find her strength etc etc but it's just not a believable situation on any level.
While its always nice to see people getting out there getting things made it doesn't mean I have to admire just because it was hard to make. Every production, even big budget ones have limitations and constraints, it's not acceptable to go around talking about it and using it as an excuse, it's the problem of the producers of the products not the viewers. If I go to a shop to buy a chair for instance and see an ugly chair made of rotten wood with three legs and the carpenter is there beside it talking about how hard it was to make and how he had very little money and no time I'm not going to think what an admirable man he is for going out and trying his best, I'm going to think he's a stupid person with a bad product.
It's just not good. I'm sorry, we're in the age where true quality can be produced from nothing for nothing. Just go to Vimeo.com and take a look around.
I have a degree in film & tv production and had 2 years experience in it before I went into another industry. I have a fairly good idea about what I'm talking about.

Fatboydim

Mitchconnor wrote: »

I have a degree in film & tv production and had 2 years experience in it before I went into another industry. I have a fairly good idea about what I'm talking about.

Mitch by all means you are entitled to your opinion - but the quote at the end just looks stupid, and actually betrays ignorance rather than knowledge.

I also find it rather bizarre that you seem to think if someone is good looking and dresses ok that they can't possibly be involved in an abusive relationship. [Actress is 30 BTW]

I suspect all you've done is watch episode 1.

FYI - Covies has already garnered a number of awards not least Sarah Carroll won a best acting award for her role as Bridie.

But clearly you feel passionate enough to write on here about how bad it is. Some eight months after the last post - So fair play to you.

Fatboydim

Oh and by all means post up some Vimeo links to the good stuff - especially if they have published budgets.