4WD car

mondeo

Gf wants to sell her colt and buy a smallish 4wd car. The snow and ice gave her a shock so now she wants 4wd. Anything interesting out that? No jeeps thanks.. 00' upwards.

Cheers

8vjohn

Would it be wrong to say that 4wd would have little benefit in this weather? You'd just have 4 driven wheels with no traction instead of 2

Karoma

What sort of price range?
Fiat Sedici (~9/10k for an '07, and surprisingly reliable for a Fiat...)? 4WD wouldn't make a huge difference in this weather, but the extra-wide wheels might make a tiny difference.

peasant

There would be this
(also sold as a Subaru on the continent), but reviews are mixed on it, apparently it likes a drink and is a bit harsh.

peasant

8vjohn wrote: »

Would it be wrong to say that 4wd would have little benefit in this weather?

Yes, indeed it would

mukki

top gear once said that the only benifit of 4wd in a car is you will more control when you accelerate on a bend in wet conditions


not sure how true that is, but brakes are on all 4 wheels are they are completely fooken useless (even dangerous) on snow/ice

Owen

How about a Panda 4x4?

peasant

PaintDoctor wrote: »

How about a Panda 4x4?

Abso-friggin'-lutely ...how could I forget about that one?

Problem solved ...next ...:D

mondeo

PaintDoctor wrote: »

How about a Panda 4x4?

Thats a good one actually...

Why would 4WD be bad on snow and ice?

trabpc

mukki wrote: »

top gear once said that the only benifit of 4wd in a car is you will more control when you accelerate on a bend in wet conditions


not sure how true that is, but brakes are on all 4 wheels are they are completely fooken useless (even dangerous) on snow/ice

Sorry but Top Gear.. were they in the middle of blowing it up! Can't take those guys serious.

Karoma

mondeo wrote: »

Why would 4WD be bad on snow and ice?

(a) Owner ignorance, and (b) part-time 4WDs sometimes disable ABS in 4WD mode.
Otherwise, 4WD offers little to no advantage over 2WD when it's moving - the laws of physics remain a constant.

wilson10

No matter what 4x4 she ends up with, make sure she gets some tuition on how to drive in icy conditions if she wants to be any safer in these conditions.

It has very little to do with the vehicle, much more to do with the driver.

Boots2006

Big difference with 4WD when you try to pull away from a standstill on ice too. Of course, you still only have 4 wheels with which to stop

Why not get the GF out on a big empty carpark, and do some "practice" in the colt?

Audi TT might fall inside your budget, they have come down a lot in price. Very good traction control and ESP system in them ... most are 4WD

peasant

mondeo wrote: »

Why would 4WD be bad on snow and ice?

If you don't know how to drive it, that's why.

If you drive your 4WD (in 4WD mode, please ) with gentle acceleration and gentle deceleration (instead of alternating between power take-offs and full brakes) you will hardly know that it's slippy.

4WD distributes acceleration/deceleration forces to all four wheels instead of just two. That means the individual tyres only have to deal with half the force and can therefore offer twice the grip than on a 2WD. *


*this may not be true on all vehicles that call themselves 4WD/AWD as some systems only kick in (electronically) once the wheels on one axle are already spinning (i.e. too late)

biko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAg4DdXAp7Y

fonecrusher1

8vjohn wrote: »

Would it be wrong to say that 4wd would have little benefit in this weather? You'd just have 4 driven wheels with no traction instead of 2

Yes i think thats wrong. I have owned front/rear wheel drive cars & currently 4 wheel drive & in my opinion the latter is definitely better in ice/snow. Well ive yet to get stuck & ive passed a few deserted (2wd) cars in the last 2 weeks.
I would say in these conditions braking in a 4x4 can be tricky & requires more planning than a normal car due to the extra weight/momentum.

8vjohn

I haven't got stuck or deserted in my 2wd car

fonecrusher1

8vjohn wrote: »

I haven't got stuck or deserted in my 2wd car

Fair enough. If you had to choose a 2wd or 4wd vehicle to take yourself & a loved one (son, brother, mother etc..) on say 100 mile journey in icey/snowy conditions which would you pick?

mondeo

Some nice replies here thanks.. How much would you reckon an 00, 01 Audi A3 quattro would cost? The fiat panda would be ok but I'm no fan of Fiats but she does not mind really so it is her who will be driving not me anyways.

The colt I have to say got stuck alot, even with new seasonal tyres up front it still was not great and required sand thrown in front of the wheels to get it free on an occasion today around by Nutgrove. Her budget is 7k ish...I should have stated in the original post.

8vjohn

I wouldn't undertake such a journey in those conditions carrying a loved one.
TBH I wouldn't have a problem driving either as I consider myself to be an apt driver

8vjohn

mondeo wrote: »

Some nice replies here thanks.. How much would you reckon an 00, 01 Audi A3 quattro would cost? The fiat panda would be ok but I'm no fan of Fiats but she does not mind really so it is her who will be driving not me anyways.

The colt I have to say got stuck alot, even with new seasonal tyres up front it still was not great and required sand thrown in front of the wheels to get it free on an occasion today around by Nutgrove. Her budget is 7k ish...I should have stated in the original post.

s3 would be a nice car but would she care for the insurance hike and higher fuel/service bill?
AFAIK there's a tdi a3 quattro too?

Boots2006

and a "4motion" golf
and an octavia with 4wd too

8vjohn

Boots2006 wrote: »

and a "4motion" golf
and an octavia with 4wd too

the 4mo golf is a v6. Pretty pricey tax wise

tossy

8vjohn wrote: »

the 4mo golf is a v6. Pretty pricey tax wise

True that

The ones i would recommend out of the VAG stable are quatto A3 or a 4mo TDI golf.

fonecrusher1

8vjohn wrote: »

I wouldn't undertake such a journey in those conditions carrying a loved one.
TBH I wouldn't have a problem driving either as I consider myself to be an apt driver

You'd make a great politician.:rolleyes:
Just couldn't answer the question. I said if you had to.

Never mind.

argosy2006

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Subaru/Impreza/1.6-TS-4/200943195566381/advert?channel=CARS

Boots2006

This looks well
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1099578

mone

An Impreza is an option too. A 1.6 like this one will soon be in your budget. I have had the pleasure of driving one of these a bit in recent times and would say they are quiet sure footed in the current conditions.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Subaru/Impreza/1.6-TS/200933194918761/advert?channel=CARS

Like others have said though its about how you drive them. 4wd or AWD won't make you stop any quicker but you will have much better chance of making it u hills, keeping straight on a corner with a camber (back end less likely to fishtail). Another thing to remember is how to react if you do get a slide in a AWD as opposed to a FWD car. From my experience in the last few weeks, the AWD is more likely to oversteer, FWD understeer.

One thing to remember is 4wd/AWD will sap some of the power from the car and contribute to higher fuel consumption, not a deal breaker but something to be aware of.

teetotaller

hello - just my 3 cents

I think that if driver can't drive 2wd car in snowy conditions like we had today ( and believe me it wasn't really bad ( I'm from country where we have 3 motnths long winter, -20*C and a 100cm or more of snow)) it won't help him/her to have a 4wd car.

DiarmaidGNR

8vjohn wrote: »

Would it be wrong to say that 4wd would have little benefit in this weather? You'd just have 4 driven wheels with no traction instead of 2

Exactly!

Front wheel drive is fine for the roads, 4wd is usually only EVER useful in rough terrain. Front wheel drive is fine.

I'm not surprised she was scared! -colts aren't a great car at all!!! Very like a tin can on wheels with no safety or driver aids.
If she really wants a new car just tell her to get a fairly modern safe car, there is no need for 4wd.
The best thing she can do is get some advance driving tuition, dealing with snow, ice, flood, bends, accidents, and more or less everything involved in driving has very little to do with the vehicle, -it is all the driver.

B00MSTICK

A 4WD will make very little difference tbh and its only icy for what, 2 months of the year? If even that?
If she's worried about driving a FWD then those worries should still be there in an AWD

Huge overkill to try to sell her current motor and replace it IMO, she just needs to learn how to drive in the conditions.

I think the studded tyres mentioned in a different thread would be better than AWD (never used them myself though obviously)

teetotaller

B00MSTICK wrote: »

A 4WD will make very little difference tbh and its only icy for what, 2 months of the year? If even that?

I'd say 2weeks not months.

tossy

B00MSTICK wrote: »

A 4WD will make very little difference tbh and its only icy for what, 2 months of the year? If even that?
If she's worried about driving a FWD then those worries should still be there in an AWD

Huge overkill to try to sell her current motor and replace it IMO, she just needs to learn how to drive in the conditions.

I think the studded tyres mentioned in a different thread would be better than AWD (never used them myself though obviously)

I agree totally with what you say,but as the owner of a 4wd car there is a dfeinite advantage in negotiating slopes and in moving off.

peasant

tossy wrote: »

I agree totally with what you say,but as the owner of a 4wd car there is a dfeinite advantage in negotiating slopes and in moving off.

and then there would be the minor matter of lots of rain, standing water on the roads, slippery muck, loose gravel ...:D

colm_mcm

Why not just buy a set of tyres for use in snow/ice. Max cost €800 and she doesnt have to change car for one that uses more fuel and costs more to maintain.

tossy

peasant wrote: »

and then there would be the minor matter of lots of rain, standing water on the roads, slippery muck, loose gravel ...:D

True,there is a definitive advantage to driving a 4wd car in most Irish condtions,and when its bone dry out it's better handling and more fun to drive in my opinion and gets the power down.

Darsad

4wd or AWD is denitely a big help in this weather but as many have said there is little benefit in stopping but plenty in starting off and climbing up slight inclines.
BUT What would be a big help to her would be to get winter tyres fitted at the end of November and taken off again come February or better still buy a cheap set of alloy and fit winter tyres and just swap over every winter like they do in Scandanavia.The new /latest generation winter tyres can be driven on dry roads and if it was the law here like scandanavia where everybody has two sets of wheels including buses trucks etc we wouldnt have the trouble we get with a few snow flakes every year and gritting wouldnt be such an issue either if our cars were suitable for the conditions.

teetotaller

Darsad wrote: »

The new /latest generation winter tyres can be driven on dry roads and if it was the law here like scandanavia where everybody has two sets of wheels including buses trucks etc we wouldnt have the trouble.

Darsad
there are 3 types of tyres
summer
all seasons tyres
winter tyres.

inter tyres can be used in temperatures up to 7*C - doesn't matter snow or dry. above this u need to get summer, or all seasons tyres.

peasant

DiarmaidGNR wrote: »

4wd is usually only EVER useful in rough terrain.

let me introduce you to:


my driveway as of this afternoon

Up and down (!) no problem, even with summer tyres ...


but 4WD :pac:

fonecrusher1

As much as im into my 4x4, it would never be any match for a nicely balanced RWD car on the twisty stuff.
If its driver enjoyment i wanted i wouldn't be driving what im driving.
Im into cars generally so i wouldn't slag off any particular type of car.:)

copacetic

8vjohn wrote: »

Would it be wrong to say that 4wd would have little benefit in this weather? You'd just have 4 driven wheels with no traction instead of 2

You would be wrong, a proper 4 wheel drive with decent tyres, low range and diff locks is of massive benefit in moving forward. (no better for stopping)

Without difflocks and in a 2 wheel drive car, one wheel spinning means you are going nowhere.

Lex Luthor

Karoma wrote: »

Otherwise, 4WD offers little to no advantage over 2WD when it's moving - the laws of physics remain a constant.

maybe in a straight line but going around corners if you lose traction, you have a better chance of correcting yourself with 4wd than fwd

peasant

copacetic wrote: »

massive benefit in moving forward. (no better for stopping)

I keep repeating myself, but this is not quite correct.

Yes, once the brakes are applied, every car is 4WD, or rather 4WB ....BUT ...in slippery conditions, where you shouldn't be braking in the first place but rather just decelerate (i.e. ease off the gas) in a 4WD you are decelerating with 4 wheels and not just two.

This means you have double the grip and conditions need to be twice as bad before you get into trouble.

If you then have a low-range gearbox on top of that so that you can drive really slow if needs be, there are few slippery roads that you couldn't get up or (more importantly) down safely.

Once you convert that safety margin into excess speed however (like lots of 4x4 jockeys are prone to do) ..well ...then you're f*ck'd

unkel

mondeo wrote: »

Gf wants to sell her colt and buy a smallish 4wd car. The snow and ice gave her a shock so now she wants 4wd.

No offence to you or your girlfriend but that is the biggest knee jerk reaction I have seen in a long time. So yes, we get 3 inches of snow and it is not thawed a day or two later. A one in 50 years event apparently. A small 4*4 would certainly get her up peasant's driveway in the @rsehole of nowhere up the mountains, but it would help feck all in your semi-d'd in a flat Dublin or other towns suburb

copacetic

peasant wrote: »

I keep repeating myself, but this is not quite correct.

Yes, once the brakes are applied, every car is 4WD, or rather 4WB ....BUT ...in slippery conditions, where you shouldn't be braking in the first place but rather just decelerate (i.e. ease off the gas) in a 4WD you are decelerating with 4 wheels and not just two.

This means you have double the grip and conditions need to be twice as bad before you get into trouble.

If you then have a low-range gearbox on top of that so that you can drive really slow if needs be, there are few slippery roads that you couldn't get up or (more importantly) down safely.

Once you convert that safety margin into excess speed however (like lots of 4x4 jockeys are prone to do) ..well ...then you're f*ck'd

true enough, when I said 'stopping' I meant standing on the brakes!

mondeo

The A3 quatrro is within budget as far as I can see. I'm aware fuel economy will go up with 4wd. The Subaru 1.6 TS is a nice car also. Their two cars we can go have a look at. The colt she has is an old car now and seen better days with 149k miles on the clock. Winter tyres would help her I am sure but she is stubborn and has mind set on getting something new.
The colt has been alot of trouble lately aswell with the distributor and various sensors recently replaced.

Thanks for the replies, it's somthing to do over the next few days while I'm still on holidays

SouperComputer

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Fair enough. If you had to choose a 2wd or 4wd vehicle to take yourself & a loved one (son, brother, mother etc..) on say 100 mile journey in icey/snowy conditions which would you pick?

I'd would take whichever had the better tyres for the conditons. If\when I get quattro\4wd, it will be for kicks, not for "safety". The right tyres make a HUGE difference.

mondeo

Can someone tell me if all 1.6 imprezas are AWD? Going to look at 2 in particular tommarow but the ad's don't mention if their 4WD. One is a 01' TS spec and the other a GL. Both 1.6 saloons.. Similar pricing 4,000.

Thanks

guil

mondeo wrote: »

Can someone tell me if all 1.6 imprezas are AWD? Going to look at 2 in particular tommarow but the ad's don't mention if their 4WD. One is a 01' TS spec and the other a GL. Both 1.6 saloons.. Similar pricing 4,000.

Thanks

have a quick look under the back of the car and if ya see a biggish box in the middle shes awd

ianobrien

mondeo wrote: »

Can someone tell me if all 1.6 imprezas are AWD? Going to look at 2 in particular tommarow but the ad's don't mention if their 4WD. One is a 01' TS spec and the other a GL. Both 1.6 saloons.. Similar pricing 4,000.

Thanks

It's easy to check. Get down and look under the back of the car. If you see a metal box about the size of a half panloaf in the middle between the two back wheels, with one large shaft/pipe (approx 2inches diameter) going to the front and two shafts going to the back wheels (one to each wheel), with rubber boots around the bends in the shaft.

Another solution is to find a WRX/STi version in a car park and look under the back and you'll see what the above looks like.

ismynametoolong

The 1.6 can be either AWD or 2WD but there were very few if no AWD versions of the 1.6 up to 2001 ( The classic ) in 2001 ( the bug eye ) they were only in 2WD and then only available in AWD from 2002 to the present , a litttle confusing but there you have it .