UPC picture quality

quad_red

We've got UPC Broadband and TV in our apartment on Clanbrassil Street (D8).

Now, the good first - the broadband is rock solid at 10 megs. No problems and coming from BT, this is an absolute god send.

But the tv picture quality is truly appalling. Some channels are worse than others but it's pretty universally awful. It's about the same quality as video streamed through the RTE player through the PS3.

Is this the standard? I called and asked them before and they said basically said that's the quality - deal with it. We have no alternatives so I suppose the ball is in there court.

Alun

Analogue or digital?

inforfun

There is more to quality than just the signal.
Could be a crap cable, a bad connector.
Could be the tv.

I suppose calling them will only make them look at signal strenght.
I would suggest you look at the connections and cables to the tv first, certainly when your BB seems great.

quad_red

Hi guys,

It's digital. The box is the standard DVR one from UPC. The box was newly installed in August with new cabling.

It's connected via scart to a 32" Samsung LCD. All other sources - PS3 via HDMI, 360 via component and VCR via scart are fine. Have also used the 360 via VGA at times with no problems.

Some channels are better than others but the quality varies. I was watching sports highlights on sky player over the 360 (using my folks a/c) and the quality was actually better than watching football on RTE2/ITV via UPC!!!!

I was at a mates place recently and he's got UPC as well. And it's noticeably better. Still, not a patch on my folk's Sky. But better than my UPC quality (and he's actually got the same tv!).

Cupart

quad_red wrote: »

But the tv picture quality is truly appalling. Some channels are worse than others but it's pretty universally awful. It's about the same quality as video streamed through the RTE player through the PS3.

Hi quad_red,

Could you be a little more specific in what you mean with poor picture quality? Not very many know what video streamed through the RTE player through the PS3 looks like :cool:

Is it freezing, pixilation, choppy etc?

There are loads of negative things to say about UPC, BUT I must admit that their PQ (at least in D2) is not half bad compared to some of the low bitrate signals over on 28.2E It has improved immensely over the last 6 months or so IMHO. I also use the silver UPC DVR that came out 10 months ago...

Alun

Do you have the box set to "high quality", i.e. RGB rather than composite? It doesn't make a massive difference (on my TV at least), but it's noticeable. I have the standard DVR and a Philips 32" LCD, and the picture is excellent, at least on the major channels. It gets a bit low quality on some of the more obscure channels but that's just because the bit rate used on them is a bit lower.

With digital, you either get a perfect picture, or one with lots of picture and sound breakup .. there's no in between, or gradual degradation of picture quality like on analogue. The signal you're getting will be of the same quality as your mate is getting.

What exactly is the nature of the bad picture quality you're getting? Can you describe it somehow? Have you tried playing with the settings on the TV? I know that on mine it stores a different set of picture settings for each input, and you can choose settings that for example make the most of a bad analogue terrestrial picture that render a good quality digital signal nearly unwatchable.

coylemj

Alun wrote: »

With digital, you either get a perfect picture, or one with lots of picture and sound breakup .. there's no in between, or gradual degradation of picture quality like on analogue. The signal you're getting will be of the same quality as your mate is getting.

This is correct, there's no halfway house with digital, the same reason why you don't have to pay stupid money for HDMI cables. I have digital downstairs which is fed by SCART from the DVR, the digital box is set to RGB and the picture quality is excellent, hopefully it will be even better when they roll out HD in my area. Upstairs I have a 19" Philips 3403 which uses the analog channels and the picture quality is progressively getting worse so I've finally caved in and ordered a multiroom box - recently reduced to just €5 p.m. so now surely a no-brainer.

Freddie59

quad_red wrote: »

Hi guys,

It's digital. The box is the standard DVR one from UPC. The box was newly installed in August with new cabling.

It's connected via scart to a 32" Samsung LCD. All other sources - PS3 via HDMI, 360 via component and VCR via scart are fine. Have also used the 360 via VGA at times with no problems.

Some channels are better than others but the quality varies. I was watching sports highlights on sky player over the 360 (using my folks a/c) and the quality was actually better than watching football on RTE2/ITV via UPC!!!!

I was at a mates place recently and he's got UPC as well. And it's noticeably better. Still, not a patch on my folk's Sky. But better than my UPC quality (and he's actually got the same tv!).

How far away from the TV are you viewing it? There is a rule of thumb that says the distance away should be 3 times the screen size, or 8 feet in your case ( http://www.dtvcity.com/lcdtv/lcdscreensize.html )

This can really make a difference on SD. We have a 42" Plasma and a 37" LCD TV indifferent rooms, and if you go under the viewing distance you will see degradation. No two ways about it. Either on NTL or Sky.

who_me

I've been disappointed with the picture quality of UPC too - I think it got worse when I switched to the Digital+HD service/box.

In particular, areas of dark colours tend to be very heavily compressed. If you have (say) a picture of someone walking through a dark cave, the person will be shown well, but the "black" cave will instead be big blobs of black & gray pixels - it's very distracting, like a poor quality Youtube video. Often there has been recurring patterns, or vertical pinstripes through the dark colours as well.

It seems to be getting better, IMO, perhaps UPC are aware of it and making changes to their signal, or the cable box software?

coylemj

Dodgy black areas of the screen is a symptom of an older LCD TV.

ronbyrne2005

~Just get them to send an engineer out. They do whenever we have a prob and the engineer will get it sorted or tell you what you need to do.

who_me

coylemj wrote: »

Dodgy black areas of the screen is a symptom of an older LCD TV.

Interesting. It is an old-er LCD TV (2-3 years old, and wasn't the 'very latest' when I bought it), though I'd have thought Philips would be a dependable brand.

I've only noticed the image quality issue when watching TV, never when watching Bluray or playing games.

quad_red

Hey all,

The couch is almost nine feet away from the tv (32" Samsung LCD which is two years old).

If I had to describe it, I'd say heavily compressed. Some channels are better than others. I suppose I notice it most when watching sports. When the camera pans out, the individual players are heavily pixelated.

As has been mentioned before, there is some banding as well. But... how do I describe it.

I've said it to my gf before that when the channel quality is poor it makes everyone look like they're in front of a green screen. Edges are very 'blunt' with little detail and allot of smudging.

I've messed around with the tv settings a good bit. Trying different modes, turning edge enhancement on/off etc. I checked out the recommended settings on AV forums a while back and it didn't offer any improvement.

And the UPC box is set to RGB.

I never really considered that it would be the tv given how superb all the other inputs are. Hell, even VHS tapes look bloody better.

quad_red

who_me wrote: »

Interesting. It is an old-er LCD TV (2-3 years old, and wasn't the 'very latest' when I bought it), though I'd have thought Philips would be a dependable brand.

I've only noticed the image quality issue when watching TV, never when watching Bluray or playing games.

I wonder if I'm in the same situation as you.

coylemj

The weak link appears to be the SCART cable connecting the UPC box to the TV since the other connections you mentioned are fine. I see you're also using SCART to connect the VCR, have you tried swapping the two SCART cables around? There may be a faulty connection in the SCART cable you're using with the UPC box.

quad_red

coylemj wrote: »

The weak link appears to be the SCART cable connecting the UPC box to the TV since the other connections you mentioned are fine. I see you're also using SCART to connect the VCR, have you tried swapping the two SCART cables around? There may be a faulty connection in the SCART cable you're using with the UPC box.

Mmmm. Will give that a try.

Freddie59

who_me wrote: »

Interesting. It is an old-er LCD TV (2-3 years old, and wasn't the 'very latest' when I bought it), though I'd have thought Philips would be a dependable brand.

I've only noticed the image quality issue when watching TV, never when watching Bluray or playing games.

It can also be evident when watching DVDs (not BluRays) and is very evident on the menus. And yes - TV brands can differ HUGELY in quality.

10000maniacs

UPC seem to be broadcasting the Irish stations digitally on 704x576 while everything else is on 544x576. The re-encoding process degrades the digital picture even further. When you put a Sky-Digital BBC NI picture beside a UPC BBC NI picture, you will notice a big drop in picture quality/sharpness on UPC.
RTE actually looks better digitally on UPC.

Howitzer

Hi all,

I've the same symptoms as quad_red. Pixelated channels to varying degrees from channel to channel. It looks like I have all the same settings and setup in place as quad_red too. Only difference is my telly is a LG 42LF2500

Also my scart cable is a fancy 'monster' one - but I see no difference between that and a cheapy one.

I wonder what the solution is? I'll be messing with TV settings soon.
I'm on RGB high from the UPC box.

Might get an engineer out to have a gander...

quad_red - keep us posted on your progress with this. I'll let you know if I discover anything too. cheers

djfattony2000

Did you lads ever get this sorted.

Ive just had it installed and the picture quality is awful. Really high contrast/saturation, a bit pixely too.

It was way better through the analogue.

djfattony2000

Actually, Ive just changed the quality option from RGB to Standard, and its now much better.

coldfire1x

djfattony2000 wrote: »

Actually, Ive just changed the quality option from RGB to Standard, and its now much better.

Same here. I have a full HD tv but somehow the picture quality with standard looks much better than RGB, so I keep it that way. I have the Digital+ box.

Dublin_Gunner

Really does sound like it could be the SCART cable or the tele TBH.

Do you have a 'full' SCART cable used? (i.e all pins are there, and doesn't look like some are missing - may only have 10 pins instead of 21, ie can only support 'fake' rgb).

Also, on nearly every LCD displaying SD content, I notice pixelation and very bad dithering. A lot of screens have very bad black reproduction also, but this can be somewhat fixed by changing the screens settings / calibration.

Freddie59

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Really does sound like it could be the SCART cable or the tele TBH.

Do you have a 'full' SCART cable used? (i.e all pins are there, and doesn't look like some are missing - may only have 10 pins instead of 21, ie can only support 'fake' rgb).

Also, on nearly every LCD displaying SD content, I notice pixelation and very bad dithering. A lot of screens have very bad black reproduction also, but this can be somewhat fixed by changing the screens settings / calibration.

Agreed. But this is not just unique to NTL. I saw Sky SD on an LCD recently and the same problems were noticeable. DVDs can also suffer in SD on an LCD.

Dublin_Gunner

Freddie59 wrote: »

Agreed. But this is not just unique to NTL. I saw Sky SD on an LCD recently and the same problems were noticeable. DVDs can also suffer in SD on an LCD.

Yep. I think its probably the tele, and/or its SCART reception.

It may have a bad upscaler, or a low pixel count for the screen size - hence the blockiness and dithering.

BostonB

I have one really good scart cable and the difference in quality is very noticeable from the cheapo scarts I have.

dubdude2008

Ive noticed this aswell. i do think that UPC are to blame slightly but this seems to be an issue more with LCD TVs than others.

Ive noticed that on live shows or football matches, if there is heavy movement or a lot of information going on at once then everything becomes heavily pixelated, for a second or two then returns to normal. i decided to hook up it up to an old CRT tv and the picture quality was miles better than my LCD. I have a 48" Samsung 1080p LCD. Madness.

Dont think there is much that can be done about this, ive seen the same issue on SKY also, not to the same extent. But i will say, UPC HD is fantastic. Watched Man U last night on BBC HD and it was shockingly clear. No pixels, no distortion , just superb. Im not one to offer compliments up to UPC easily, but credit where credit is due.

PS: Changing from RGB to Standard in the options menu definately improves the picture quality.

BostonB

Theres so many factors I'd say a lot of people are lost with it all. Is it the cable, box signal, TV, setting. Etc. Plug and play it isn't.

testarossa40

I'm in D8 watching UPC Digital+ off a 10 mth old silver Thomson box & on a 2yr old 32' Samsung LED too (LE32R82) - SCART connection.

Picture quality is very good except for high motion scenes on a couple of highly-compressed channels - Sci-Fi channel comes to mind for example...

DVR is set to (High) RGB. Here are my TV picture quality settings - you might have some or all on yours too:
Mode - Dynamic
Colour Tone - Cool 2
Digital NR - Auto
Active Colour - On
DNIe - On
Movie Plus - On

Oh, and a poor quality SCART cable or connection can really mess up your picture quality...

SonicTitan

I had this problem too. Just changed the Scart around and it sorted it out straight away.

arybvtcw0eolkf

djfattony2000 wrote: »

Did you lads ever get this sorted.

Ive just had it installed and the picture quality is awful. Really high contrast/saturation, a bit pixely too.

It was way better through the analogue.

I just changed over in the last few days and came here wondering if people were experiencing the same problem's, seem's there a whole clatter of us!.

Like everyone else here I've truely awful picture quality.

If I want to see a programme with anything like half decent quality I've to sit at least 15' away from the screen - ie out in the lounge!.

My TV is the Sony Bravia 40" which displayed excellent picture quality from Sky.

fryup

my gripe is that the aspect ratio is all over the place, some channels fine, some not

Kensington

Jameson Disgusting Firecracker wrote: »

I just changed over in the last few days and came here wondering if people were experiencing the same problem's, seem's there a whole clatter of us!.

Like everyone else here I've truely awful picture quality.

If I want to see a programme with anything like half decent quality I've to sit at least 15' away from the screen - ie out in the lounge!.

My TV is the Sony Bravia 40" which displayed excellent picture quality from Sky.

What you're seeing is the effect of:
1) too much digital compression
2) re-compressing already compressed channels off sky

The RTÉs and BBCs are alright on UPC, but a lot of the UK channels look far better on sky than they do on UPC. Personally, I've found UPCs picture is nowhere near that of sky's.

John Dough

Its the old story with UPC they are trying to put too many eggs in the one basket e.g. Analogue TV, Digital TV, broadband and telephone on the one cable which was not designed for all this hence your poor pictures etc.

There is no comparison between them and Sly 'cause Sly have more bandwith hence the super quality pictures not to mention HD which UPC will NEVER replicate on cable soif you want the best quality you know where to go guyz.

P.S. I have no connection to Sly or UPC just a casual observer.

BostonB

Freesat, Freeview or DTT should be better by that logic too.

paulm17781

John Dough wrote: »

Its the old story with UPC they are trying to put too many eggs in the one basket e.g. Analogue TV, Digital TV, broadband and telephone on the one cable which was not designed for all this hence your poor pictures etc.

There is no comparison between them and Sly 'cause Sly have more bandwith hence the super quality pictures not to mention HD which UPC will NEVER replicate on cable soif you want the best quality you know where to go guyz.

P.S. I have no connection to Sly or UPC just a casual observer.

There is very little factual information in that.

The only thing Sky have that UPC don't in the amount of channels they can offer.

"Analogue TV, Digital TV, broadband and telephone on the one cable " Can all be quite comfortably be transmitted on the one cable.

UPC have HD on cable already.


See Kensignton's post for why the picture isn't as good as Sky's.

BostonB

I noticed bad pixelation on UPC analog the other night. Thats on a CRT. How did they manage that?

Kensington

BostonB wrote: »

I noticed bad pixelation on UPC analog the other night. Thats on a CRT. How did they manage that?

Because they source the non-terrestrial analogue channels from digital satellite. Some of the channels are quite heavily compressed on satellite and show up artefacts from time to time - they could have also been having problems.

deanh

fryup wrote: »

my gripe is that the aspect ratio is all over the place, some channels fine, some not

Could you not try playing around with the menu settings yourself.
depends on your s-t-box but roughly press menu; installation; set top box installation; tv and vhr configuration; 16:9, 4:3 etc. press ok to save, esc. to exit. Also I have found that if you turn your tv to standby by using the stb remote, it tends to reset the aspect ratio. Turn off the tv using its own remote and unplug the box keeps the settings as saved.

uncleoswald

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Really does sound like it could be the SCART cable or the tele TBH.

I'm having the same problem after upgrading to Digital+ from the standard box. And its definitely not the scart as I used the same cable. When I set the box to high RGB the picture quality is really bad, the whites are all washed out no matter what settings I use on the TV. So I'm using the standard setting now which is better but the quality is still a fair bit worse then it was with the old box. I'm now paying more for a poorer quality picture.

who_me

Kensington wrote: »

Because they source the non-terrestrial analogue channels from digital satellite. Some of the channels are quite heavily compressed on satellite and show up artefacts from time to time - they could have also been having problems.

The bolded bit should be in a sticky!

Some people have suggested the problem is due to SD, but it's not. The Irish channels (for some reason TG4 in particular) are significantly better than any other SD channel. It's that the other channels are very heavily compressed. For me it's noticeable all the time, worst of all in dark/black images.

BostonB

Seems to be getting worse too. I assume to push people to digital.

ciaran75

you sound like you have decent enough tv's.
as deanh said, go into the settings on the UPC box and set your screen to be widescreen. this may help, maybe its 4.3 or letterbox.

is your UPC box going into video then into tv, if so put directly from UPC to tv

must admit no issues with my picture coming through pioneer 50" at about 10 feet viewing distance.

if all else fails, ring UPC and they will send someone out.

zilog_jones

uncleoswald wrote: »

I'm having the same problem after upgrading to Digital+ from the standard box. And its definitely not the scart as I used the same cable. When I set the box to high RGB the picture quality is really bad, the whites are all washed out no matter what settings I use on the TV. So I'm using the standard setting now which is better but the quality is still a fair bit worse then it was with the old box. I'm now paying more for a poorer quality picture.

Sounds like there's something wrong with your TV, your SCART connection (are you using a splitter? These are crap unless switched), or the box.

uncleoswald

zilog_jones wrote: »

Sounds like there's something wrong with your TV, your SCART connection (are you using a splitter? These are crap unless switched), or the box.

Considering it the same TV and SCART I used with the regular box I find it hard to believe its anything but the digi+ box. I simply plugged out the old one and plugged in the new one. Not using a splitter and the TV is fine with all the other attached devices.

Unsuprisingly UPC think its the telly.

Also does anyone else digital+ box make constant noise? Didn't notice anything from the regular box.

BostonB

I can't remember but I set up my sisters TV and the signal from the NTL PVR silver box (is that the digi+ ?) is definately more washed out than a signal from her old Philips DVD PVR she has connected. Swapping the cables around made no different. I meant to play around with it some more and see if I could improve it.

CountingCrows

uncleoswald wrote: »

Also does anyone else digital+ box make constant noise? Didn't notice anything from the regular box.

I can hear the hard drive inside mine swirling every now and again but generally its not noticeable.

zilog_jones

uncleoswald wrote: »

Considering it the same TV and SCART I used with the regular box I find it hard to believe its anything but the digi+ box. I simply plugged out the old one and plugged in the new one. Not using a splitter and the TV is fine with all the other attached devices.

Unsuprisingly UPC think its the telly.

That's odd, which box is it? We have the silver Thomson one - the RGB output looks as good as anything else, and was an improvement over the Sagem STB we had before (would get colour bleed and other crappyness with that). Do you have another TV you can try it on? Is your DVD player or whatever else using RGB outputs? I've seen some JVC CRT TVs where the RGB input has degraded worse than anything else.

Also does anyone else digital+ box make constant noise? Didn't notice anything from the regular box.

The DVRs have a hard drive and maybe a fan for cooling, the normal STBs had no moving parts.