Mountain bike advice for road biker

saffron yellow

Hey guys,

I'm an expericenced road bike user and keen to broaden my horizons back into mountain biking. I've done abit before but technolgy has surpassed my 20 year old Raleigh Activator. I was wondering if anyone could advise on a decent mountain/trail bike (above entry level) that would suit a bit of cross country, trails and roads.

I get an A+ on road bike technology and set up acumulated from several years touring and etapes on my carbon road bike.

I know that the buget is always a factor but will be looking at decent second hand options. Any constructive feedback is appreciated.

seamus

You're looking for cross-country geometry. These generally have a gently sloping top tube, flat or almost flat bars, a hard tail, front sus and tyres that are fat and knobbly, but not excessively so - between 1.75 and 2 inches.

On a budget, avoid rear suspension or carbon frames. You should be able to get aluminium frames at around the €500 mark, and you won't notice a huge weight difference.

Frame sizes are smaller to give you more room for manouvering on descents and are measured in inches. If you ride a 54 or 56cm road frame, you'll be looking for a 19" (~48cm) MTB frame, for example.

Since you know your bikes, you know that getting the best bike is about avoiding false economies and buying the machine which gives you the best overall set of components instead of any one particular feature.

kenmc

Have a look at merlin cycles, they have some on sale. I got the malt 1 special this time last year & love it. It's plenty good for my ability at the moment anyway.

blorg

Wiggle have some crazy good discounts on mountain bikes at the moment.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Focus_Raven_2009/5360037556/
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Focus_Super_Bud_2009/5360037553/

Morgan

There are hundreds of bikes out there which would be ideal for you. What's your budget?

I'd recommend a light hardtail - if you're coming from a road background a heavy or full-suspension bike would probably annoy you.

You'll need:
Decent hardtail frame
80-100mm forks
Disc brakes
Decent components (Shimano SLX/XT/XTR or SRAM X9/X0)

Your main decision is whether to get a basic bike to get you into the sport or to go a bit more upmarket and get a bike you'll really like.

Take your time, visit a few shops and test ride as many bikes as you can before purchasing.

CheGuedara

blorg wrote: »

Wiggle have some crazy good discounts on mountain bikes at the moment.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Focus_Raven_2009/5360037556/
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Focus_Super_Bud_2009/5360037553/

Holy Cr@p - a carbon rig for little more than a grand! If I was buying that'd be my cash gone...

Oh and +1 on watching for false economy buys - e.g. if your budget sees you chosing between a bike with decent V-brakes or cable actuated disc brakes at the same price point, the Vs are frequently the better way to go for stopping power and the drive chain may be improved due to money saved at the hub (not to mention calipers and rotors). Do however avoid buying anything that doesn't have disc tabs on the fork & esp on the rear L chain stay - it's always good to have tho option of upgrading to disc in the future even if the bike doesn't arrive equipped.

saffron yellow

Cheers guys,

I feel I've returned to road bike '101'!

Ok, so lets see if I I'm shooting in the right direction...

I'm looking for a light hard tail, alu frame, gently sloping top tube, front suspension and decent components (obviously).

Now, do I assume that disc brakes are better option and is there great variations in types of disc brakes or any that I should avoid?
In terms of front sus, should I look for one that allows for variation of resistence or is this standard at this level? and finally,
drive chain - my road bike has a compact 53-34 ratio on the front and 12-27 on the rear. Should I be looking for something around 11-33?

Anything I should walk away from in terms of frames, brakes, or drive train?

My budget would preferbley be circa 500e to start for second hand but unsure what I would get for that.


Appreciate it.

biker_joe

If had the mula I would get one of these, there are 20" left in stock ...... grand for mucking around in the snow and a bit trail riding without breaking the bank .....

obviously not for competition MTB racing ..... but a start ....

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=44341

Biker_Joe ....

seamus

saffron yellow wrote: »

Now, do I assume that disc brakes are better option and is there great variations in types of disc brakes or any that I should avoid?

Some people say you should avoid cable-pull disc brakes (as opposed to fluid), but they are good brakes. However if you're paying more money for cable-pull disc brakes, opt for the cheaper V-brakes instead. V-brakes are a good deal lighter too.

In terms of front sus, should I look for one that allows for variation of resistence or is this standard at this level?

Adjustable spring/damping and a lockout function should be standard even at entry level. The lockout is useful for climbing.

drive chain - my road bike has a compact 53-34 ratio on the front and 12-27 on the rear. Should I be looking for something around 11-33?

11-33 would work fine on an MTB. Stock cranksets are triple, usually 22-32-42, which should work fine. You'll find the 42 lacking on the road (especially downhill), but cross-country anything bigger than a 46 will kill you. MTBs have much more friction on the road, so you'll probably find the 22 necessary on really steep hills.

Raam

biker_joe wrote: »

If had the mula I would get one of these, there are 20" left in stock ...... grand for mucking around in the snow and a bit trail riding without breaking the bank .....

obviously not for competition MTB racing ..... but a start ....

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=44341

Biker_Joe ....

Get one. I can show ya the trails in Howth. If you don't already know em.

DirkVoodoo

kenmc wrote: »

Have a look at merlin cycles, they have some on sale. I got the malt 1 special this time last year & love it. It's plenty good for my ability at the moment anyway.

+1.

I got the same one on Ken's recommendation, really awesome bike for the money. The frames are basic but functional (my ability really limits what I can say about a frame) and the rest of the kit is a full deore group, disc brakes and a pretty decent Rock Shox Tora fork. The only negatives for me are the tyres seem more suited to summer duties and fast cross country and my saddle is more uncomfortable than any road one I have ever used (it seems to be a Selle Italia Filante)

Bikeradar Review - 4.5/5 stars.

biker_joe

biker_joe wrote: »

If had the mula I would get one of these, there are 20" left in stock ...... grand for mucking around in the snow and a bit trail riding without breaking the bank .....

obviously not for competition MTB racing ..... but a start ....

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=44341

Biker_Joe ....

All my money is spent on nappies now !!!!

blorg

Closer to your budget this one might also be an option.

Aluminium frame, hydraulic discs, halfway decent fork, good 9 speed gears from SRAM.

The Cube looks good but the brakes and gearing on the Focus are a fair bit better.

Gearing seems pretty similar on most MTBs, wide range triple going down to 22 and 11-32 or 11-34 at the back. You WILL need the lower gears!

Most people do say hardtail for your first bike (although I have heard the opposite) but the full suspension I linked from Focus @50% off is a good spec and designed as a XC bike, not too heavy (14.7 vs 13.25kg for the aluminium Focus hardtail.) Deore with XT RD, hydraulic discs, lockout on the rear shock.

I am no expert though and would defer to Morgan on these matters.

TinyExplosions

blorg wrote: »

Gearing seems pretty similar on most MTBs, wide range triple going down to 22 and 11-32 or 11-34 at the back. You WILL need the lower gears!

Na, single speed is the way to go!

Enduro

I'm a mountainbiker, rather than a converted roadie, so from my experience I would say....

Hydrolic Disk brakes are must in Ireland. Lots of options, but most of them are good enough. Even something as cheap as Shimano Deores have great stopping power (I cycled down Snowden with them no problem). Mechanical disk brakes are a false economy in the long term, as they need more maintanance. It's been years since I've seen a serious MTBer with V-brakes, for a very good reason. Don't go near them.

IMHO when push comes to shove there isn't a huge difference between most Hardtail frames. The basic Merlins as described abover are more than adequate, and I'd doubt very much that you'd ride much better on a HT frame costing twice as much. There is more to be gained by getting a good set of brakes and forks.

Knowing which forks are good is a whole other issue. All Fox forks are good. Mid to upper end Rockshox are good. If you're getting the bike for XC then something in the range of 100-120mm is probably about right. Personally I like to have as much bounce as possible. I have 100mm Fox, 85-115 Rockshox Rebas (adjustable height), and 100-130 Rockshox Revalations on my XC bikes. Lockout is nice to have if you care about climbing speed on non-technical terraine, but I wouldn't regard it as a necessity.

Size-wise, as mentioned above, for MTBing its better to err on the side of getting a smaller frame. I ride a 54mm road bike, and I'm happiest on a 17.5inch MTB. 19" would definitely be too big.

Gear ratio obsession is for roadies Standard chainset is 44-32-22, and standard cassette is either 32-11 or 34-11. TBH it hardly matters which you get. 9 speed is pretty much standard these days, although 8 speed is tougher and more durable but much harder to get.

littleknown

for me i would recommend a canyon, fantastic bike but i am biased as i own one, i think 1000euro is what you should be aiming to spend.

the bike is delivered within a few days, have it over a year now and is still perfect, lovely yoke..

http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=1802

papac

I'm an expericenced road bike user and keen to broaden my horizons back into mountain biking

I am pretty much in the same boat.Been getting into a bit of the off road thing on a borrowed Merlin Malt 2.I have been doing a fair bit of research (with a view to buying a half decent mtb for myself) and I reckon you probably need to spend a bit more than 500 to get value.As others have said the Merlins are good honest bikes and they do some good deals.This is the bike I have been using and its at the top of my list atm.
http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/custom-mountain-bikes/merlin-mountain-bikes/merlin-malt-21.html.
If you can get over the Halfords thing I would have a look at this (also on my shortlist).
http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_518245_langId_-1_categoryId_212589.

I wouldn't get hung up on gearing-you just need a big range and they all have that.
Edit.I think the forks improve a lot when you go to the level above the 500e entry bikes.

seamus

Enduro wrote: »

Hydrolic Disk brakes are must in Ireland. Lots of options, but most of them are good enough. Even something as cheap as Shimano Deores have great stopping power (I cycled down Snowden with them no problem). Mechanical disk brakes are a false economy in the long term, as they need more maintanance. It's been years since I've seen a serious MTBer with V-brakes, for a very good reason. Don't go near them.

I'm going to disagree with you to a point. Starting out, discs aren't essential and are unnecessarily expensive. A full set of Deore discs comes in around €120, whereas a full set of XT V Brakes comes in around €60.

Back in my day (:D), a well set-up pair of cantilevers worked perfectly in all but the most severe conditions and when V-Brakes came out, most pundits were recommending them above the hydraulics of the day (Maguras).

Yes, hydraulics discs provide better performance and far less maintenance. No doubt about it. But only at the higher levels of the sport, where small changes in braking distance make a difference to your ride. If someone is buying a bike on a budget, I would sacrifice the discs in favour of V-brakes, if only to give you more room in your budget elsewhere. Fitting discs later is easy enough, providing the bike and wheels are prepared for them.

Just my opinion, brakes have always been a contentious issue; everyone seems to know what's best and why.

WicklowRacer

I'd agree 100% with Enduro. Hydro disks give you the same braking power irrespective of conditions. The same is not true of v-brakes. I ride MTB all year around and it is muddy and wet most of the time.

Also, if you buy a v-brake spec'd bike, it is highly unlikely that the wheels will come with disc ready hubs. This then makes a disk upgrade very expensive as you need to swap out the wheels (or get the hubs rebuilt).

concussion

Disc brakes completely transformed how I ride in Ireland. V brakes will stop you at low speeds but with the rain and deep mud you are very much restricted in what you can and cannot do. Ten years ago we had to accept it, these days I would reccommend hydraulic discs as a standard fit.

Greyspoke

Loads of very good advice above and I'd agree with pretty much all of it.
Buy the best you can afford - while you can get very good buys second hand, be very careful as unlike road bikes, mountain bikes tend to lead a much tougher life and though it might be clean and shiney, a second hand could have a lot of wear and tear on it requiring quite expensive replacement of parts within a short space of time. It sounds like you know bikes so you'd know what to look out for. Personally, having experienced cantis, vs, cable discs, hydraulic rim and disc brakes, I would say go for hydraulic discs if possible. One thing to bear in mind about rim brakes is that with the crappy conditions we get here you wear your rims down quite quickly.
Gearing is always pretty standard. As for forks - something like a mid-range Rockshox will be fine (max 120mm).
Also, I too would very much recommend Merlins - I spent 4 days on mine on the Ballyhoura trails over New Year and was reminded again just what good all around trail bikes they are.

papac

I always thought hydraulic discs were ott until I tried them recently.They are the dogs.

Very few decent forks with vee mounts now anyway.

Repolho

Greyspoke wrote: »

I spent 4 days on mine on the Ballyhoura trails over New Year

Sorry to go off topic but is Ballyhoura rideable at the moment??? Is there lots of ice out there? The board walks must be lethal as they are pretty slippery even when just wet?

I got my new MTB shortly before Christmas and have yet to give it a proper run out!

Dr Rod Doom

I did the brown loop in Ballyhoura on Sunday and it was rideable. There are big patches of ice on some of the trails, but you can fly over them if you stay off the brakes. The boardwalks were not as bad as I was expecting at all

Greyspoke

I'd agree with Dr Doom above - the fire roads were generally more icy than the singletrack which was just a bit icy in places. The boardwalks were not bad either but I took it pretty handy on them - I know a few people came off them while I was there resulting in a broken hand/wrist for one unfortunate guy. One place to watch out for on the return journey when you start on the return part of the green is the first section just before the boardwalk around the first deep gulley. The very narrow bit of track just before the boardwalk was pretty slippy and we had one faller into the ravine though they managed to catch a fallen tree so didn't go too far.
However, having said all that, if there's been much snow down there since the weekend then all that might have changed!

Haldir

littleknown wrote: »

for me i would recommend a canyon, fantastic bike but i am biased as i own one, i think 1000euro is what you should be aiming to spend.

the bike is delivered within a few days, have it over a year now and is still perfect, lovely yoke..

http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=1802

Glad to hear it... just ordered this very bike and am waiting on delivery. Now just have to find somewhere in Kildare for a beginner MTB'r to cycle!

Greyspoke

Haldir wrote: »

Now just have to find somewhere in Kildare for a beginner MTB'r to cycle!

The Curragh and Donadea Forest are both good places for mtb though not very mountainy. Technically speaking I don't think you're meant to cycle in either place but you'll certainly get away with it on the more remote parts of the Cyurragh (SE end) and if you stay off the main walking trails in Donadea you'll probably be okay there too.

Enduro

seamus wrote: »

I'm going to disagree with you to a point. Starting out, discs aren't essential and are unnecessarily expensive. A full set of Deore discs comes in around €120, whereas a full set of XT V Brakes comes in around €60.

Back in my day (:D), a well set-up pair of cantilevers worked perfectly in all but the most severe conditions and when V-Brakes came out, most pundits were recommending them above the hydraulics of the day (Maguras).

Yes, hydraulics discs provide better performance and far less maintenance. No doubt about it. But only at the higher levels of the sport, where small changes in braking distance make a difference to your ride. If someone is buying a bike on a budget, I would sacrifice the discs in favour of V-brakes, if only to give you more room in your budget elsewhere. Fitting discs later is easy enough, providing the bike and wheels are prepared for them.

Back in your day indeed!!!
I was a long time hold out using V brakes, but hydro disks are a one way gate. Once you go through you never go back, and you question how you ever got it so badly wrong. (you = me there )Just this evening I was out riding around in the snow up in the 3 rock area, something that would have been frankly impossible with V brakes. Disks just keep on working though.

as for the price difference.. really the rule of "buy shyte, buy twice" applies here, with the possible (probable with V brake rim wear) cost of new wheels to be added as well.

The shorter braking distance applies to all levels of the sport, as long as you're actually MTBing. That short distance can be the difference in stopping just in time, versus heading to A&E (with the associated loss of the 60 euro price difference and much more) to get a few x-rays on broken body parts.