Suprise heating bill of €650

Lollymcd

I've looked through most of the forums and haven't come across a similar thread, I hope I'm not mistaken, feel free to merge if I have missed something though!

Dilemma

I live in wonderful rented apartment in a wonderful area and have no desire to move. My landlord is great, flexible and easy to talk to, I haven't seen him in 2 years, and we only communicate very rarely by email. This is the situation I want to maintain!

When we moved in to out apartment we were told that the ESB bill would be the only bill, it would include everything (heating, hot water etc) In August we got notification that a new company would be taking over the heating service. We were surprised as we had been told it was just going to be ESB. Nonetheless, we like heat and hot water so we paid a security deposit to this new company (we met with their representatives, all above board etc) we got our first two monthly bill, €65, not really a problem.

This morning I received an email forward from my landlord. He had received a bill for €650 for heating and hot water from August 2008 to August 2009 from the property management company who were looking after the heating system before this new company took over.

I am pretty sure if I read my lease, it is a standard one, it will say something like "the tenant will be responsible for all heating bills" etc etc etc.

My question, in a long about way, is whether this is legal? I don't want to lump my landlord with the bill, I did use the hot water/heating after all but I knew nothing about this bill until today. I would have preferred to have known about it and paid it weekly/monthly.

I have to speak to my landlord about it, I want to find out if he was aware this bill was coming, if he wasn't is there a way to fight this? Anyone else in/ever been in this situation?

I definitely want to stay on good terms with my landlord.

Cheers

bugler

This seems a strange situation. What type of heating do you have? Your details are very vague. Is it gas, oil, electric? Radiators, storage heaters?

Can you name the new company responsible for the heating/immersion? I don't even know how a hot water charge can be separated from regular electric charges...and I certainly don't know how a property management company can run a sideline in heating, but I await education!

Lollymcd

bugler wrote: »

This seems a strange situation. What type of heating do you have? Your details are very vague. Is it gas, oil, electric? Radiators, storage heaters?

Can you name the new company responsible for the heating/immersion? I don't even know how a hot water charge can be separated from regular electric charges...and I certainly don't know how a property management company can run a sideline in heating, but I await education!

I live in an apartment complex which has a separate centralized heating and hot water system which is separate from our ESB and has a separate meter. The system is a new fangled one and can use oil, gas, solid fuel, which ever is cheaper at the moment so as to keep costs down for residents. We have central heating type radiators and a boiler/emersion thingie which we time to come on when we need it. Basically it's like a home central heating system except there is only one for about 1000 apartments, it's a good system, works well, and I have no complaints! €65 for two months isn't that much to pay either. (Neither is €650 for a year... if we had known in advance!)

The new company maintaining and supplying the heating is Dalkia Ltd (doing a great job!!!) The management company were involved as it is a recently new build and the contract for the heating hadn't been awarded so they maintained the heating and hot water while this process was happening.

Any advice is more than welcome!

WIZE

If it says that the tenant is responsible for bill etc ( Electric Gas ) in the contract so you should be responsible for the bill .

Its a pity you dont have it down in writing the you should be only paying Electricity .

Ask the landlord to divide it 50/50

Lollymcd

Most Haunted wrote: »

If it says that the tenant is responsible for bill etc ( Electric Gas ) in the contract so you should be responsible for the bill .

Its a pity you dont have it down in writing the you should be only paying Electricity .

Ask the landlord to divide it 50/50

Thanks for your reply, it's a huge pity we didn't get the ESB only thing in writing, I never thought to do so, I doubt others do either .... something for all to consider!!!

Not sure about asking the landlord to go 50/50, I doubt he would go for it anyway. I'm just wondering about the legality of the situation, while my lease my say I'm responsible for all bills, surely I must know about them in advance? What's to stop more bills flying through the letter box???

antoinolachtnai

Is this a flat or a metered charge?

Is there a meter on your apartment for hot water/heat usage?

Lollymcd

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Is this a flat or a metered charge?

Is there a meter on your apartment for hot water/heat usage?

There is meter in the basement of the complex and also one on my system in the apartment. (maybe you thought it was a flat rate as €650 sounds like a round figure - it's actually €648 and some cents, I was rounding up!)

astrofool

Could you pay it back to the company in installments? Would be a reasonable way to do it.

Lollymcd

astrofool wrote: »

Could you pay it back to the company in installments? Would be a reasonable way to do it.

I'll probably just pay it in one go, get it out of the way, this isn't really what concerns me, I'm more worried about being held responsible for a bill I was never aware I was accruing. Anyone know the legality of this?

dingding

You were in an apartment that had heat and hot water that was not heated by electricity.

you seemed supprised that it was not included in your ESB bill.

Did you use all the heat and hot water charged for. If so why would the landlord pay half.

Lollymcd

dingding wrote: »

You were in an apartment that had heat and hot water that was not heated by electricity.

you seemed supprised that it was not included in your ESB bill.

Did you use all the heat and hot water charged for. If so why would the landlord pay half.

I'm not expecting my landlord to pay half! I will pay it as I used it!

My problem is that I was told when I moved in that the only bills associated with the apartment was the ESB, rightly or wrongly I assumed that this meant the heating was supplied by the ESB. 15 months after I moved in I was asked to sign a heating agreement with Dalkia Ltd who were going to supply the heating. I did this; I have paid my first bill, THIS IS ALL FINE!!! Today I received a bill for heating and hot water for AUGUST 08-AUGUST 09, I was not aware that there was this charge associated with the apartment as my landlord told me the only bill was ESB.

I am posting here to find out if anyone else has ever had something like this happen to them, how did they handle it?

Should the tenant not be made aware of all utility bills attached to the apartment before they sign the lease?

confuzed

That's bit odd.
Never heard of such an arrangement in Dublin; may be Its me.
Well electric heating bill can be very high at times when its very cold and you use it during day times at full rate. I pain 550€ in last Dec, Jan and hoping this year high too. I hope few others must be in similar situation. But, atleast I have control on that and its entirely up to me when to use and how to use.

Another thing, when any kind of fuel can be used in that central system, it should be actually cheaper to run. No.

Lollymcd

confuzed wrote: »

That's bit odd.

Never heard of such an arrangement in Dublin; may be Its me.
Well electric heating bill can be very high at times when its very cold and you use it during day times at full rate. I pain 550€ in last Dec, Jan and hoping this year high too. I hope few others must be in similar situation. But, atleast I have control on that and its entirely up to me when to use and how to use.

Another thing, when any kind of fuel can be used in that central system, it should be actually cheaper to run. No.

The central system can switch between gas, oil and solid fuel and is indeed much cheaper than electricity, I am really glad we have this system. My bill was €650 for twelve months so that's only €54 p/m for heating and hot water.

My one gripe is getting a bill when I was told I would not be!

antoinolachtnai

This is pretty much certainly legal.

I would keep an eye on the meter though for a few days while you have no usage and while you are using quite a bit, to get some idea whether the cost looks like it makes sense. (I say this not because I doubt the management/energy company, but just because it's a new system, with new technology for Ireland so it's worth keeping an eye on.

It is a very sensible way of heating apartments.

Is the bill in KWh (kilowatt hours)? what's the rate?

Lollymcd

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

This is pretty much certainly legal.

I would keep an eye on the meter though for a few days while you have no usage and while you are using quite a bit, to get some idea whether the cost looks like it makes sense. (I say this not because I doubt the management/energy company, but just because it's a new system, with new technology for Ireland so it's worth keeping an eye on.

It is a very sensible way of heating apartments.

Is the bill in KWh (kilowatt hours)? what's the rate?

Thank you for your reply, yes it's a great system, I have nothing bad to say about it. Heating and hot water is charged at the same kWh unit rate which is €0.0393 per unit, there is also a fixed energy charge of €19.03 which covers wastage of heat going through the compex to get to my apartment and a service fee. €65 for two months isn't bad.

antoinolachtnai

19 euros a month fixed? or two months?

It's a good bit cheaper than night rate electricity for sure.

Lollymcd

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

19 euros a month fixed? or two months?

It's a good bit cheaper than night rate electricity for sure.

It's every two months. It's sort of fixed, it'll be around that every two months, it will depend on what wastage there is throughout the system and what the price per unit is at that moment. Unfortunatly we still have to use ESB for lights cooking etc!

stepbar

I would say that the meter was not being read during this time. Therefore the units were being underestimated by the ESB and hense the humongous bill. The units can easily build up.

astrofool

The heating is nothing to do with ESB/electricity.

The issue the OP has is that they weren't informed of this bill until a year after moving in.

However, this was rather naiive, and you should have queried where the heating was coming from and getting paid at the time, rather than just assume ESB, it's perfectly reasonable to chase you for this cost, but, they should be flexible about the time period (not that you have a problem with paying in one go anyway).

Lollymcd

astrofool wrote: »

The heating is nothing to do with ESB/electricity.

The issue the OP has is that they weren't informed of this bill until a year after moving in.

Thank you!

astrofool wrote: »

However, this was rather naiive, and you should have queried where the heating was coming from and getting paid at the time, rather than just assume ESB, it's perfectly reasonable to chase you for this cost, but, they should be flexible about the time period (not that you have a problem with paying in one go anyway).

I asked was the ESB the only bill, the answer was yes. What else could I have asked, I've lived in 3 different apartments and the heating has been supplied by ESB in all three. Maybe I was naiive but only ESB bill to me means no other bills!!! Ah well, you live and you learn. Just peeved!

Thoie

Highly unlikely, but maybe before this new company took over, that cost was part of the annual management fee? So maybe the landlord said there was only the ESB bill because previously it had been rolled into the management charge, and he'd just taken care of it?

I understand that you're willing to pay it, but it's worth mentioning to him (in a calm way - something like "I was a bit surprised to get hit with a €650 bill for last year all in one go"). Even if he does nothing for you, at least he'll be aware of the situation if it crops up later.

Lollymcd

Hi guys, thanks for all advice, I have sent off a civil email explaining that I'll sort out the payment but explaining I was surprised to be getting the bill, especially all in one go. I'll let you know what I hear back.