Cycling Adverts - the future

Lumen

There are plans afoot to "re-integrate" the Cycling Adverts subforum back into adverts.ie, which is undergoing a redevelopment.

We (mods) have been asked for suggestions. I interpret this as "what would be required of adverts.ie such that the Cycling Adverts subforum becomes redundant".

Since it's your subforum, we would welcome your feedback...

My own thoughts:

- A dedicated Cycling category, to include bikes, components, clothing, accessories etc. Basically everything you could find on Wiggle or CRC, except as second hand private sales, plus services (mechanical stuff, coaching bike fitting etc). The services might need to be treated as commercial advertising unless bartered - this is only speculation on my part.

- Support for large pictures, because it's necessary for checking out the condition of components.

- Improved metadata, to help search and sort. This is one area where our Cycling Adverts subforum falls down (another is the fact that you can't identify which items are sold from the advert listing). Examples: item category (e.g. bikes, components, clothing, accessories, services) location, collection only/collect or post.

I would also be a bit concerned about losing the quality aspect of our own Cycling Adverts - there is rarely anything crappy there, and if there is it gets advertised as such. I guess we'd have to sacrifice this in exchange for wider exposure of ads.

Thoughts?

blorg

That's a shame to be honest, I thought it was working quite well as it is.

hynesie

I also like the current setup.
However if it must be changed could we have a sticky where boardsies can put a post informing us of their stuff for sale. I don't check adverts at all (nor do I really want to), but what was nice about the current setup is that you might spot something by chance that you're interested in.

thebouldwhacker

They are pulling the sub forum? this stinks. Adverts is great but I much prefer using the sub forum as ppl know each other and there are no scammers, also not being bound by the adverts rules makes it safer for both buyer and seller.
Please feed back that they should back off and leave the sub forum alone.

Lumen

The rationale for the subforum was that adverts.ie wasn't good enough. They're offering to fix that.

Responding with "we don't care what you do, we don't want it" seems a little irrational.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

Responding with "we don't care what you do, we don't want it" seems a little irrational.

You could phrase it better than that

I think people prefer the small community feel to our sub-forum. I know I do

thebouldwhacker

Lumen wrote: »

"we don't care what you do, we don't want it" seems a little irrational.

Thats not quite what I ment, Adverts is great for selling, but I like the way the sub forum works. Like Raam said its the small community feel. I think the cycling forum works well, and while improvments are always necessary I think the current structure works very well. I think if they "re-integrate" the Cycling Adverts subforum back into adverts.ie then a resource which is delivering a good service will be lost to the cycling forum. I'm not going lose sleep over it, thats my view. I'm sure what ever is put in place will work wonderfuly however I think that the sub forum should be kept and upgraded not lost to adverts.

CheGuedara

I'm going to have to agree with Blorg, Hynesie, thebouldwhacker and raam - I don't think there's any necessity to change what's now in place. The subforum puts bikes, components, clothes and assoc up for sale on Boards in a place where cyclists, commuters and bike enthusiasts post - i.e. you're advertising directly to your target audience, no scammers, no time wasters. Also it's a very dynamic environment allowing a lot of discussion over the sale item without any restrictions and it works. It aint broke so no sense in fixing it.

I can see where Lumen is coming from in his idea but I have to agree - I suspect if the sub forum goes we'll begrudgingly resort to the adverts pages and then end up trawling through BSOs and ads for 10 year old alu Treks on sale for crazy money... or just go back to posting FOR SALE: threads on the cycling forum...

Lumen

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

I think that the sub forum should be kept and upgraded not lost to adverts.

Putting aside the grand strategies of boards/adverts.ie, the problem with the subforum is that it is just a plain old message board. We can't upgrade it - the design is constrained by general purpose nature of the underlying software (vBulletin).

How do you find a bike for sale in your size? How do you distinguish sold from unsold items? These things are not easy. The subforum only works because there are very few ads.

I'm not being corporate. It's my honest view that adverts could provide a much better service than our own subforum - more ads, more eyeballs, but easier to find stuff, get a better price and a quicker sale.

thebouldwhacker

Point taken, shame to lose the sub forum is all...

TinyExplosions

Lumen wrote: »

Putting aside the grand strategies of boards/adverts.ie, the problem with the subforum is that it is just a plain old message board. We can't upgrade it - the design is constrained by general purpose nature of the underlying software (vBulletin).

How do you find a bike for sale in your size? How do you distinguish sold from unsold items? These things are not easy. The subforum only works because there are very few ads.

I'm not being corporate. It's my honest view that adverts could provide a much better service than our own subforum - more ads, more eyeballs, but easier to find stuff, get a better price and a quicker sale.

I think that's the beauty of the sub forum here, rather than integrating it all on adverts -as has been said in the past, it's a relatively 'safe' sandbox here when you'll see decent stuff for sale, from people you have either met in real life, or 'know' through their posts on here.

Also, one of the best things about the sub forum is that it's not constrained by the adverts rules -yes, they are there for a reason, but it's very restrictive for selling things like bike equipment (a quick example would be pm-ing someone specific, close up shots of a bike -it's against adverts.ie rules, yet is a perfectly reasonable request imo). Also, one of the strengths of the sub forum is that you can call bullshit on crappy ads, or link to an item online that cheaper etc, again which goes against adverts.ie rules.

I think what I would like would be either to leave things as they are, as they work well (not perfectly, but it's not all that hard to see if items are sold or not etc), or drastically change the adverts rules, and have a link at the top to that specific forum, so we can get to it from here (I'm not sure how possible it is to integrate that into it, but at the very least it should be easy to stick a link to the adverts.ie cycling for sale category up there)

RobFowl

I do like it as it is but can see why the "man" wants it back as part of adverts.ie.

If there was a cycling subforum in the sports section, larger pictures were available and and possibly a section for "high performance cycling equipment" or some such label it would be helpful.

Home:Ballyhoura

I like the way it is at the moment too, however the choice is good. Would it be at all possible to see what this new development on Adverts.ie would be like? I mean, maybe it is too much hard work to develop "just to see what it is like" and how it works and if it is successful or not? Have you a link to any other similar website you had in mind to base this new idea on? I presume it would be one option or the other is it? Not both? No possibility of keeping the sub forum and advancing the current setup on Adverts.ie?

ROK ON

This IMHO is a truly terrible idea and is not in anyway user friendlym

I never check adverts yet u have bought several items from our for sale section ob the basis that they were advertised here.

If this must happen I would suggest a sticky where only links to the advert could be posted. No discussion just the link.

But in general I would hate to lose our subforum.

Beasty

I suspect you will find posters will end up dropping comments into the main forum ("PM me if you are interested in ...", or "I'm thinking of getting a second hand .... any views" followed by the PM) - unless, of course, the MODs start waving the ban-stick..

Lumen

To clarify...

I'm not asking whether you want to keep the subforum or not. That decision is entirely outside of my remit.

I'm asking for suggestions of how to improve adverts.ie, which I can feed back to the developers of the new version.

Arguably, improving adverts.ie weakens the case for maintaining the subforum, so you may choose to withold suggestions, but that strategy could fail spectacularly if the powers-that-be end up keeping the adverts.ie features we have right now (for lack of any constructive suggestions) and withdrawing the subforum anyway. I have no idea how likely that is, I'm just raising the possibility.

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

To clarify...

I'm not asking whether you want to keep the subforum or not. That decision is entirely outside of my remit.

Typical Mod - wants the authority, but won't accept responsibility ...:D

blorg

What would Lance say?

lukester

Lumen wrote: »

To clarify...

I'm not asking whether you want to keep the subforum or not. That decision is entirely outside of my remit.

Is there any way you can pass on the feedback of the regulars here?

(I'm in favour of keeping the sub-forum, I never go to adverts because of the high crud->quality ratio)

Lumen

lukester wrote: »

Is there any way you can pass on the feedback of the regulars here?

Naturally I sent a link to this thread to the adverts.ie admins.

smashey

Hi all,

I should start by letting you know that I now work for adverts as their customer representative.

It is our intention to make the cycling category on adverts the best it can possibly be and to do that, we will take on board all your comments here. (This won't happen overnight) The cycling forum on boards has a community aspect that other forums can only ever dream of and we are trying to tap into whatever you all feel will work on adverts.

Please keep the suggestions coming no matter how small or big they appear.

thebouldwhacker

Hey Smashey, I'm sure everyone here hopes the improvement to adverts will make it the biggest and best in the country but I think another hope would be that it doesn't affect our own for sale sub forum. Being able to buy and sell on the forum is a great service which allows stress free purchasing as there is a certain trust involved in each purchase as one is familiar with the seller/buyer through the forum itself. I'm not sure if the boards virtual world is filling up but the for sale sub forum works, is busy and popular and judging by the posts here is valued and wanted so no reason to be withdrawing it when adverts face lift is done....

mloc123

I don't see a problem with the 'trust' issue here, ppl have the same username on adverts and boards... so there will be regulars on it aswell as the single post accounts in the current sub-forum.

ROK ON

@Smashey. Best of luck with the endeavour.

However, can you or someone else explain why having to look in a separate place for cycling buy and sell stuff is useful?

One of the beauties of this place is the one stop ship nature of it, from discussion of the sport, training, equipment and the banter/craic.

Like many in this site I couldn't care less about the adverts site. I never go there.
Despite that I have purchased stuff advertised here. Not because it was needed, but because I just happenedto think that I had found a bargain in a low intensity kinda way.
If our subforum is removed I still won't visit Adverts.ie
Now while that maybe my loss, it does detract from the success of this particular site.

If this goes ahead (and it seems like a fait accomplit) then I ask that we have a sticky thread with linka to adverts posted by members here.
Best of both worlds, a win/win.

Thanks
J

mloc123

perhaps the best option would be to turn the sub forum into an 'adverts watch' forum. Regulars can post a thread linking to their ad on adverts, no replies allowed on thread.

dave.obrien

i might only be an occasional poster, but i'm a regular reader, and love the sub-forum, it's a great place to find a few bits, without having to wade through pages of bso's. adverts lacks the sense of ownership that the sub forum has, and that is not something you can design into a web code, so i think you have to accept that what you will gain in terms of general internet accessibility and viewer numbers will be at the cost of what makes the sub forum enjoyable. i'd love to say that putting strict parameters on what can or cannot be advertised on the site will defend the atmosphere, or frequent moderatorship will mean that scammers are spotted quickly, but i reckon i'm not alone in thinking that that just won't be the case.

the only thing i can think of is to invert the current rules banning duplication, and instead saying that the sub forum is designed to draw the attention of cycling enthusiasts to items that they may find interesting, and that the sub forum is just a link hoster, with allowances for a small description about the object and it's price. maybe on request, the op could be allowed through this forum to post large pics of the item on request from buyers who have to make themselves known through the adverts page with a link then posted there, meaning that potential buyers who stumble upon the as for whatever reason are not discriminated against for not enjoying reading about who just got signed for team sky, or whether or not any allegations have been made against lance after some french vouyeur went through his bin a few weeks after the tour.

i still think you're gonna compromise on what goes on here. you shouldn't do it.

edit: I do appreciate Lumen asking the opinion of other users on what improvements could be made, and i hope the feedback is proving helpful

ROK ON

In the past 2days several sales have/are being concluded on our sub-forum.
The people who want to close this should ask what purpose can be served by forcing us to conduct this business in that horrible adverts placem
These sales have been conducted efficiently without the minimum of fuss. Bravo to the mods that set up our subforum in the first place.
The highest praise it can be given is that it works and is used.
Not all technological advances (ie to Adverts) are going to change what it is versus what we already have.

flickerx

Even if adverts.ie improves drastically, the sub-forum should still be left alone.

Gavin

When we originally requested the adverts sub-forum, it was given with the proviso that it was temporary.

The admins obviously don't want trading done on the main forum site, so perhaps best to come up with solutions rather than problems. Some potential options could be:

1) We request our own private sub-forum, have a link in the main cycling forum detailing how to get access.
2). We see if it's possible to get a private subforum on the actual adverts site.

This original issue with adverts was the stringent rules on there which don't work well with a community of people who know each other. A private spot on the adverts site might fix this, I don't know if it's practical or technically feasible at the moment.

BostonB

Fix adverts first then ask about moving the forum. Rather than promising to do it afterwards.

It will never happen. We've been asking about fixes for adverts bugs for ages.

Golfanatic

what if you changed the subforum to adverts style but leave it where it is and you can only acess it by the boards so its part of the boards not adverts do u get me?

smashey

Just an update on this.

We have recently upgraded adverts and now have a specialist bikes category. I am looking at all your comments and suggestions and will get back to you in due course.

BostonB

I like the new adverts myself. Is there anyway the bike bit could be mirrored to a thread on boards thread in the cycling section. Then people could subcribe to it for updates.

smashey

BostonB wrote: »

I like the new adverts myself. Is there anyway the bike bit could be mirrored to a thread on boards thread in the cycling section. Then people could subcribe to it for updates.

I'm not too sure about the technicalities of that but each category has a dedicated RSS feed now if that's of any use to you.

BostonB

Never use them, but perhaps I should. I'll check it out. Thx.

w123

blorg wrote: »

What would Lance say?

2 pints of EPO and a packet of crisps please.

jaqian

BostonB wrote: »

I like the new adverts myself.

+1.

Maybe if a mod from cycling forums was in charge of the adverts cycle forum that might sort peoples fears of losing the community vibe?

ROK ON

http://adverts.ie/202198
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055865590

Two links above are precisely the type of reason why (1) I hate Adverts and rarely if ever go there and (2) believe it is inferior to what we already have in the cycling adverts subforum.

I urge anyone, particulalry mods, to explain to me why:
(1) this type of nonsense will not go on in the new improved adverts and
(2) why it is better than what we already have in this forum.

Thanks.

BostonB

I don't understand why that is an issue for you. Do you have a compulsion to look at every ad or thread or something? Just ignore it. and/or report it to a mod and get all the muppets who thread spoiled, a slap. The thread in cycling should be moved out of cycling if its nothing to do with cycling. Its a valid ad. Some, People just don't want to throw things out or give them away. Which is fair enough. I looked on the thread on my mobile and wished I hadn't bothered.

smashey

It's adverts and as the name suggests, it will accept all sorts. The guy is perfectly entitled to sell a bell and if the price or any price on any other ad is an issue, then feel free to report it.

ROK ON

BostonB wrote: »

I don't understand why that is an issue for you. Do you have a compulsion to look at every ad or thread or something? Just ignore it. and/or report it to a mod and get all the muppets who thread spoiled, a slap. The thread in cycling should be moved out of cycling if its nothing to do with cycling. Its a valid ad. Some, People just don't want to throw things out or give them away. Which is fair enough. I looked on the thread on my mobile and wished I hadn't bothered.

Not at all. I dont look at half the threads here. I saw that one linked and outr of curiousity followed it. It reinforced the already poor image that I have of adverts. I balance this versus the usefullness that I have had with our Cycling Adverts subforum. That is all really. I do not really care whther there is a non improved cycling section in Adverts. I simply do not wish to lose what I think is a fantastic subforum, that rarely descends into the type of nonsense that is sometimes prevalent over on Adverts.

mloc123

ROK ON wrote: »

http://adverts.ie/202198
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055865590

Two links above are precisely the type of reason why (1) I hate Adverts and rarely if ever go there and (2) believe it is inferior to what we already have in the cycling adverts subforum.

I urge anyone, particulalry mods, to explain to me why:
(1) this type of nonsense will not go on in the new improved adverts and
(2) why it is better than what we already have in this forum.

Thanks.

So you wouldn't use adverts because a few regulars on here decided to spoil an ad? I'm sure if the same ad was put in the sub forum the same users would act like dicks too.

ROK ON

smashey wrote: »

It's adverts and as the name suggests, it will accept all sorts. The guy is perfectly entitled to sell a bell and if the price or any price on any other ad is an issue, then feel free to report it.

I am not objecting to the person selling the bell. Not at all. It is the purile nonsense that follows. What I like about our sub-forum is this.
People post for sale threads.
Othere people come on and ask questions that pertain to the sale.
The item gets sold or not.

Very little nonsense. Its not a place for slagging - there are many other places here where we can have a bit of a laugh and act the idiot.
It works. Lets not lose it. Thats all. This is not anti-adverts per se, but pro Cycling Adverts sub-forum.

ROK ON

mloc123 wrote: »

I'm sure if the same ad was put in the sub forum the same users would act like dicks too.

I have the utmost confidence in our three mods.

BostonB

Maybe a sub section "pro bikes" on adverts would be an acceptable compromise? Or

road racing
mtb
commuting
family
bargain bikes
euro
fashion
cake

Steve

ROK ON wrote: »

I am not objecting to the person selling the bell. Not at all. It is the purile nonsense that follows. What I like about our sub-forum is this.
People post for sale threads.
Othere people come on and ask questions that pertain to the sale.
The item gets sold or not.

Very little nonsense. Its not a place for slagging - there are many other places here where we can have a bit of a laugh and act the idiot.
It works. Lets not lose it. Thats all. This is not anti-adverts per se, but pro Cycling Adverts sub-forum.

With respect, if the same carry-on happened here you'd all be wearing out the report buttons. There wasn't a single report about that ad last night.
It works both ways guys.

We're averaging about 30 new ads per hour each evening, add to that all the comments being posted and I'm sure that you can appreciate how much we have to rely on stuff being reported.

ROK ON

@Steve and Smashey.
Guys this is pretty simple really.
Ye want to improve adverts. Great. Best of luck.
However, that improvement should not come at the detriment of removing something that (1) works and (2) does not seem to attract the nonsense that I seem to think goes on on adverts.

There is such a thing as a Win/Win.
Improve adverts and leave well enough alone here. Why is that either lost on ye or is such a big deal that it is unworkable. Can that be explained to me.
I simply cant understand why if a community works it needs to be altered in a way that may be detrimental to it?

Thanks and look forward to the explanation. As at the moment I simply dont understand.

smashey

ROK ON wrote: »

@Steve and Smashey.
Guys this is pretty simple really.
Ye want to improve adverts. Great. Best of luck.
However, that improvement should not come at the detriment of removing something that (1) works and (2) does not seem to attract the nonsense that I seem to think goes on on adverts.

There is such a thing as a Win/Win.
Improve adverts and leave well enough alone here. Why is that either lost on ye or is such a big deal that it is unworkable. Can that be explained to me.
I simply cant understand why if a community works it needs to be altered in a way that may be detrimental to it?

Thanks and look forward to the explanation. As at the moment I simply dont understand.

The whole idea of setting up what you have here was only ever going to be a temporary situation. We haven't said anything that wasn't known at the outset.

ROK ON

Thanks. Thats a pity.

flickerx

smashey wrote: »

The whole idea of setting up what you have here was only ever going to be a temporary situation. We haven't said anything that wasn't known at the outset.

Please, please leave the Cycling Adverts subforum alone.

Raam

I'm a fan of the cycling adverts forum as it is today. Please don't remove it.