Limerick City V The Crescent SC....

Raiser

Limerick City Retailers are in trouble - Nobody has any interest in their high priced and utterly plain handful of dull offerings, nobody can afford to park in Limerick City. Even if they could, its very difficult to actually get parking without having made 8 or so City laps while searching for a space. A space which will be zoned for 60 minutes of parking and if you are a few minutes late some Cretin will have slapped a parking ticket on your windscreen.

Recently the Crescent was denied a fair and valid opportunity to expand its business with the inclusion of Marks and Spencers with the shíte and absolutely unfair excuse that nobody wants to shop in Limerick City anymore - so no, you can't continue to improve and develop the better and more attractive alternative that People actually do want to shop in?????

Limerick is usually cold, wet, rainy, windy, dirty, full of broken glass, rubbish and vomit, hard to park in, expensive, has more tracksuits than the Olympic Village and is more bleak than Chernobyl - How dare they stand in the way of progress and thwart an expansion prompted by the popularity of an alternative as expressed by the People of Limerick?

Mr E

I want a Marks and Spencers in Limerick.
I'd do most of my grocery shopping there in a heartbeat.

Kess73

To be honest, the last thing the area around the Crescent needs is extra traffic trying to squeeze out onto the same road. Now if they had tried to get permission for a road leading to the new motorway, then maybe.

Raiser

I live in the area, in my opinion the bulk of the Crescent traffic affects nobody except the Crescent users themselves. Its queues of cars going into the Crescent and then 2 hours later queuing to get out again.....

I'm notoriously grouchy and bad tempered and even I have no problem with the traffic in the area....!!!

- That said, I do agree that there have been many changes to the road infrastructure surrounding the Crescent in the past number of years without any improvements really being sought or implemented.

Either that or the Planning Office has an agenda against the Crescent, which as conspiratorial as it might sound, would fit perfectly with the small-time and dodgy nature of tacitly lobbied Limerick local Politicians and Dopes such as the Limerick Chamber of Profits.......

phog

Raiser wrote: »

Limerick City Retailers are in trouble - Nobody has any interest in their high priced and utterly plain handful of dull offerings, nobody can afford to park in Limerick City. Even if they could, its very difficult to actually get parking without having made 8 or so City laps while searching for a space. A space which will be zoned for 60 minutes of parking and if you are a few minutes late some Cretin will have slapped a parking ticket on your windscreen.

Is there that much of a price difference between the city shops and the Crescent because if there is I haven't noticed it.

Maybe the reason why it's difficult to get parking is that there are so many overstaying thier 60mins by " a few minutes", if you want to park for longer pay for it.

Raiser wrote: »

Recently the Crescent was denied a fair and valid opportunity to expand its business with the inclusion of Marks and Spencers with the shíte and absolutely unfair excuse that nobody wants to shop in Limerick City anymore - so no, you can't continue to improve and develop the better and more attractive alternative that People actually do want to shop in?????

If the Crescent do more with their traffic managment then possibly the Crescent might have been allowed to develop further, at the moment it's a nightmare at busy times.

Raiser wrote: »

Limerick is usually cold, wet, rainy, windy, dirty, full of broken glass, rubbish and vomit, hard to park in, expensive, has more tracksuits than the Olympic Village and is more bleak than Chernobyl

Like any other Irish city really. BTW, the tracksuits can be seen in the Crescent too :eek:

Raiser wrote: »

How dare they stand in the way of progress and thwart an expansion prompted by the popularity of an alternative as expressed by the People of Limerick?

When did this happen?

Mc Love

Only god knows how they got planning for the Childers Rd retail park!

Amazotheamazing

As usual in Ireland, the critic focusses on the small picture and not the large one.

Limerick city is the economic driver for the entire midwest, from North Tipp to North Kerry. We need to stop thinking in terms of our immediate parish and ask what's good for North tipp, Clare, Limerick and North Kerry.

The best thing for the midwest is rebuilding Limerick city into a city that can compete with Cork and Galway, and the only way to do that is to grant a boundary extension, and to revitalise the city centre. We need to stop focusing on what's good for one shopping centre and ask what's good for large parts of four counties.

Imo, the councils of Clare and North Tipp should work with Limerick in modernising Limerick city. It's the only show in the area, if Limerick city continues to decline, so too will large towns like Ennis and Nenagh. I was in a travel agents in New Delhi recently and the Indian serving me heard I was from Limerick and uttered the words "stab city". I walked out in disgust, but also knowing it was a fellow Irish person who told him that name. We need to work together to help this region because like it or not, other regions don't give a **** about us. As usual in Limerick though, it's all "what's good for my parish and who cares about anywhere else"

Karmafaerie

Raiser wrote: »

I live in the area

Really!
I'd never have guessed!!!:eek:

Person who lives by Crescent wants more for Crescent.

I'm sorry friend, but the future of our city is more important than how convenient the Crescent is for you.
Limerick city needs to be looked after.
Don't forget, once the inner and outer ring roads are complete, the pedestrianisation of Limerick city center is due to start.
What would be the point of that, if all the shopping was to be done outside of the city.

The antiquicated city boundries are causing this horrible dougnuting of our city by more and more faceless bland shopping centers.
Where everything looks the same.

You should take a lesson from Galway, rather than blaming Limerick City Council for the weather.:rolleyes:

Amazotheamazing

snap

Kess73

Raiser wrote: »

I live in the area, in my opinion the bulk of the Crescent traffic affects nobody except the Crescent users themselves. Its queues of cars going into the Crescent and then 2 hours later queuing to get out again.....

I'm notoriously grouchy and bad tempered and even I have no problem with the traffic in the area....!!!

- That said, I do agree that there have been many changes to the road infrastructure surrounding the Crescent in the past number of years without any improvements really being sought or implemented.

Either that or the Planning Office has an agenda against the Crescent, which as conspiratorial as it might sound, would fit perfectly with the small-time and dodgy nature of tacitly lobbied Limerick local Politicians and Dopes such as the Limerick Chamber of Profits.......

I live in the area also, and do not fancy the idea of having to spend too much time caught in pointless traffic jams getting out on the occassions I need to bring the car there.

Some form of slip road in and out of the Crescent from the new road would have done wonders forthe place in terms of ease of use.

I do agree with your original post that the town centre retailers could be in serious trouble, and have commented on it many times in the past, normally to be told that I am wrong and that the town centre can match any city centre in the country, which just tells me that those saying that do not go to the other city centres much.

The city planners/authorities are nothing more than a joke. They have ignored the requests and pleas of retailers for years, and pretty much spout bs in an attempt to fool people into thing that the centre of Limerick is a shopping mecca.

When Thomas Street/Bedford row was finished, council members were crowing that it was an area to compare to the finest shopping streets in Europe, Europe not even Ireland.

The Opera house gets blathered on about year after year, when there are large empty area like where Dunnes used to be by Sarsfield bridge sitting empty. Why not redevelop area like that, and get modern units put in?

Patrick street/Rutland street is a disgrace. I don't think any major town or city in Ireland has a street that looks like that so close to the town/city centre.

Sarsfield street is another high profile street with many empty units.


Now I agree with M&S being stopped from going into the Crescent, but to do so is futile when an alternative was not ready to offer them in the town centre.

What Limerick needed years ago whilst there was still money in the economy, was to have moved on the Opera house then, plus had a second major shopping centre built on the other side of town to the Crescent.

but local authorities, both city and county, have always been too busy feathering their own nests and trying to boost their own profiles to do the actual job that they are there for.

Kess73

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Really!
I'd never have guessed!!!:eek:

Person who lives by Crescent wants more for Crescent.

I'm sorry friend, but the future of our city is more important than how convenient the Crescent is for you.
Limerick city needs to be looked after.
Don't forget, once the inner and outer ring roads are complete, the pedestrianisation of Limerick city center is due to start.
What would be the point of that, if all the shopping was to be done outside of the city.

The antiquicated city boundries are causing this horrible dougnuting of our city by more and more faceless bland shopping centers.
Where everything looks the same.

You should take a lesson from Galway, rather than blaming Limerick City Council for the weather.:rolleyes:

No we should take a lesson from how Cork is laid out, and how they maintained a great range of store names in the city centre, and then matched well lit areas and big easy to acces foothpaths around them.


As well as being able to have shopping centres in the outskirts.

Limerick planners tend to do things arseways at the best of times. All talk about tunnels and pedestrianisation, which will be great but there is a woeful range of stores in the centre, and the way those clowns work with rates and planning, it will only get worse.

I am no great fan of the Crescent and find it to be a very overated shopping centre, especially when compared to others in Ireland, but it is light years ahead of the town centre in terms of facilities and range of stores.

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

I live in the area also, and do not fancy the idea of having to spend too much time caught in pointless traffic jams getting out on the occassions I need to bring the car there.

Some form of slip road in and out of the Crescent from the new road would have done wonders forthe place in terms of ease of use.

I do agree with your original post that the town centre retailers could be in serious trouble, and have commented on it many times in the past, normally to be told that I am wrong and that the town centre can match any city centre in the country, which just tells me that those saying that do not go to the other city centres much.

The city planners/authorities are nothing more than a joke. They have ignored the requests and pleas of retailers for years, and pretty much spout bs in an attempt to fool people into thing that the centre of Limerick is a shopping mecca.

When Thomas Street/Bedford row was finished, council members were crowing that it was an area to compare to the finest shopping streets in Europe, Europe not even Ireland.

The Opera house gets blathered on about year after year, when there are large empty area like where Dunnes used to be by Sarsfield bridge sitting empty. Why not redevelop area like that, and get modern units put in?

Patrick street/Rutland street is a disgrace. I don't think any major town or city in Ireland has a street that looks like that so close to the town/city centre.

Sarsfield street is another high profile street with many empty units.


Now I agree with M&S being stopped from going into the Crescent, but to do so is futile when an alternative was not ready to offer them in the town centre.

What Limerick needed years ago whilst there was still money in the economy, was to have moved on the Opera house then, plus had a second major shopping centre built on the other side of town to the Crescent.

but local authorities, both city and county, have always been too busy feathering their own nests and trying to boost their own profiles to do the actual job that they are there for.

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. People continue to look at Limerick as it is, and not about how far it's come. We've only had a university for 20 years, Cork and Galway have had one for over 150 years for example. In some areas we've made massive strides, UL, LIT (including the Art college), Thomond Park, and built some of the best facilities in Ireland. In others, boundary extension, crime, and city centre renewal, we've lagged badly behind. We are slowly modernising the city centre, the riverside walks, Thomas St., Milk Market, and we will be able to push on with this once the tunnel is open and the bypasses complete. All these things take a lot of time though.

Karmafaerie

Kess73 wrote: »

No we should take a lesson from how Cork is laid out, and how they maintained a great range of store names in the city centre, and then matched well lit areas and big easy to acces foothpaths around them.


As well as being able to have shopping centres in the outskirts.

Limerick planners tend to do things arseways at the best of times. All talk about tunnels and pedestrianisation, which will be great but there is a woeful range of stores in the centre, and the way those clowns work with rates and planning, it will only get worse.

I am no great fan of the Crescent and find it to be a very overated shopping centre, especially when compared to others in Ireland, but it is light years ahead of the town centre in terms of facilities and range of stores.

I was using Galway as a warning, not a guide.
Galway is surrounded by a ring of shopping centers, choking off the city itself.
Limerick City Council are no friends of mine so to speak, but lets be honest.
The City and County councils care more about fighting among themselves than getting anything done.

I live in the City Center myself, so can look at things from the other side.
Getting out to the crescent is a nightmare most times, and an inconvenience at others.

Yes the Opera Center should have been completed years ago, but the City Council cant really be blamed for the planning process that blocked the construction for 3-4 years!

Raiser

Phog your query on when the People of Limerick expressed a clear and overwhelming preference for the Crescent can be answered by by your other point relating to the traffic levels - What could be a clearer expression of support than shunning Limerick City and frequenting the Crescent by the hundreds of thousands?

- Also 60 minutes parking for that money is extortion - I'd rather hand my money to the Taliban than give it to Limerick City Council on those terms - especially since there's no sign of them doing anything right for our City.

Further to this, can anyone please tell me how much a single parking disc costs these days? Its hard to keep up because they seem to double in price every year driven by greed and the notion that People have more money than sense.

The Crescent is like a Travellers Utopia, its a Mecca for anyone with a horn for their Cousin and a silk waistcoat with slip on shoes!!! Not really many Limerick Scumbags there though, especially when you compare it to Limerick City where daylight robbery is more than just a throwaway expression.

Amazotheamazing wrote:

As usual in Ireland, the critic focusses on the small picture and not the large one.

Limerick city is the economic driver for the entire midwest, from North Tipp to North Kerry. We need to stop thinking in terms of our immediate parish and ask what's good for North tipp, Clare, Limerick and North Kerry.

The best thing for the midwest is rebuilding Limerick city into a city that can compete with Cork and Galway, and the only way to do that is to grant a boundary extension, and to revitalise the city centre. We need to stop focusing on what's good for one shopping centre and ask what's good for large parts of four counties.

Imo, the councils of Clare and North Tipp should work with Limerick in modernising Limerick city. It's the only show in the area, if Limerick city continues to decline, so too will large towns like Ennis and Nenagh. I was in a travel agents in New Delhi recently and the Indian serving me heard I was from Limerick and uttered the words "stab city". I walked out in disgust, but also knowing it was a fellow Irish person who told him that name. We need to work together to help this region because like it or not, other regions don't give a **** about us. As usual in Limerick though, it's all "what's good for my parish and who cares about anywhere else"

I don't really agree with any of that; I'd be more inclined to believe that People shop based on convenience, preference and availability of the products they want or need. Limerick Retailers own, insure, trade out of and pay rates on commercial premises in the hope of filling their own personal private Bank accounts surely???? I am open to correction if there's some higher order here where Wealthy Limerick Business People are funding school projects in North Kerry or something?



Karmafaerie - I'm not really pro anything here - But I did feel that it was wrong to hamper the natural success of one entity in order to encourage the growth of the poor, mismanaged, lacklustre alternative.

- From what I am told the Management of the Crescent SC are very hard on Tenants and like to raise the rent on a monthly basis.... This is then of course passed on to the Consumer in high prices.

Shops such as the Art and Hobby Shop and the Card shop in the centre square area are in my opinion operating on profit margins so ridiculously high should be governed by some new restriction to protect those with full wallets and empty heads!!!

Amazotheamazing

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I was using Galway as a warning, not a guide.
Galway is surrounded by a ring of shopping centers, choking off the city itself.
Limerick City Council are no friends of mine so to speak, but lets be honest.
The City and County councils care more about fighting among themselves than getting anything done.

I live in the City Center myself, so can look at things from the other side.
Getting out to the crescent is a nightmare most times, and an inconvenience at others.

Yes the Opera Center should have been completed years ago, but the City Council cant really be blamed for the planning process that blocked the construction for 3-4 years!

It's not just Limerick city v. Limerick County that's the problem here, it's all the local authorities involved. If you look at Ireland, Limerick county is not an especially attractive place, but it's surrounded by places of massive natural beauty, Kerry, Clare and North Tipp (particularly out by Lough Derg) can compare to anwhere in Ireland in terms of beauty. All the relevant authorities should get together and ask "how can we maximise this region?" Instead they seem intent on going it alone. Give me back the Kingdom of Thomond anyday of the week over this intercounty nonsense...

Amazotheamazing

Raiser wrote: »

I don't really agree with any of that; I'd be more inclined to believe that People shop based on convenience, preference and availability of the products they want or need. Limerick Retailers own, insure trade out of and pay rates on commercial premises in the hope of filling their own personal private Bank accounts surely???? I am open to correction if there's some higher order here where Wealthy Limerick Business People are funding school projects in North Kerry or something?

I'm not surpised you don't agree with any of it, you're looking at the small picture of one shopping centre, I'm discussing a region of about 500,000 people. You want to be able to buy M&S groceries, I'm talking terms of the entire ecomony of four counties.

Kess73

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. People continue to look at Limerick as it is, and not about how far it's come. We've only had a university for 20 years, Cork and Galway have had one for over 150 years for example. In some areas we've made massive strides, UL, LIT (including the Art college), Thomond Park, and built some of the best facilities in Ireland. In others, boundary extension, crime, and city centre renewal, we've lagged badly behind. We are slowly modernising the city centre, the riverside walks, Thomas St., Milk Market, and we will be able to push on with this once the tunnel is open and the bypasses complete. All these things take a lot of time though.

That is it though. For the last decade or more, Limerick has had plenty of people on about how great it is.


Listen to some of the crap Live95FM have come out with for years now.

Sporting capital of Ireland
IT capital of Europe.
Shopping capital of Munster


All rubbish hyping up a place with an unwarranted sense of grandeur. Our local authorities are similar. Constant talk about these huge plans for the city. And the same old talk comes out each and every year.

I would much prefer if they spoke less and we stayed the same, rather than all this talk of new shopping areas and getting nowt.

Yes there is a recession now, but surely that is even more reason for them to shut up about all these massive projects that are always on the cusp of starting yet never seem to appear.

The slow rot of the town centre is nothing new, and it is not because of the recession. The town centre was losing stores when the so called boom was happening, but none of the authorities would act on it.

Galway and Cork are two cities that have made huge strides over the last 30 years, and are continuining to do so. I just don't understand why Limerick cannot watch them, and see what works and what does not work in those places, and then try to incorporate those ideas here.

Before being made redundant in 2009, I had been in retail management for over 20 years, in Ireland, England, and Germany. In Ireland I have worked in Limerick, Cork, Galway, and Dublin. In none of the places I have worked have I had contact with local authorities that come across as backward and regressive as what I have dealt with in Limerick.

Everywhere else I have worked, the local authorities and elected officials have had an eye on the bigger picture and plan towards getting there. Here our boys seem to be planning ways to get photo ops and figuring out how to become the next mayor. With each one of them praying to be the one who is around when some outside company comes to Limerick to set something up, so they can pretend they had something to do with it.

I agree that Limerick has huge potential and have said so many times before. There is a great catchment area around it. But the longer our lot keep their heads in the sand, the better Cork and Galway will get and it will get to the point where those cities will become the regular cities to go to from the catchment areas that we share, and at that point it will be even harder to claw business back.

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

That is it though. For the last decade or more, Limerick has had plenty of people on about how great it is.


Listen to some of the crap Live95FM have come out with for years now.

Sporting capital of Ireland
IT capital of Europe.
Shopping capital of Munster


All rubbish hyping up a place with an unwarranted sense of grandeur. Our local authorities are similar. Constant talk about these huge plans for the city. And the same old talk comes out each and every year.

I would much prefer if they spoke less and we stayed the same, rather than all this talk of new shopping areas and getting nowt.

Yes there is a recession now, but surely that is even more reason for them to shut up about all these massive projects that are always on the cusp of starting yet never seem to appear.

The slow rot of the town centre is nothing new, and it is not because of the recession. The town centre was losing stores when the so called boom was happening, but none of the authorities would act on it.

Galway and Cork are two cities that have made huge strides over the last 30 years, and are continuining to do so. I just don't understand why Limerick cannot watch them, and see what works and what does not work in those places, and then try to incorporate those ideas here.

Before being made redundant in 2009, I had been in retail management for over 20 years, in Ireland, England, and Germany. In Ireland I have worked in Limerick, Cork, Galway, and Dublin. In none of the places I have worked have I had contact with local authorities that come across as backward and regressive as what I have dealt with in Limerick.

Everywhere else I have worked, the local authorities and elected officials have had an eye on the bigger picture and plan towards getting there. Here our boys seem to be planning ways to get photo ops and figuring out how to become the next mayor. With each one of them praying to be the one who is around when some outside company comes to Limerick to set something up, so they can pretend they had something to do with it.

I agree that Limerick has huge potential and have said so many times before. There is a great catchment area around it. But the longer our lot keep their heads in the sand, the better Cork and Galway will get and it will get to the point where those cities will become the regular cities to go to from the catchment areas that we share, and at that point it will be even harder to claw business back.

I agree with a lot of that, I think Limerick city council have a massive amount to answer for, but I also think broadly speaking, we're going in the right direction.

Wrt the hype, does anyone actually believe Galway is the Capital of Culture or that Cork is the "real' Capital? I find those titles just as risible as any suggesting Limerick is this that or the other.

The most important issue, imo, is the boundary extension, if only so it will stop two councils messing things up instead of just one. I'd be more tempted to abolish the City one if I could, Limerick County Council seems slightly more competent, I don't see why a small county like Limerick really needs two councils?

I really believe we need to stop thinking in terms of parishes and shopping centres though and start seeing ourselves as part of a larger region. Like I said, bring back Thomond and to hell with counties.

Raiser

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I'm not surpised you don't agree with any of it, you're looking at the small picture of one shopping centre, I'm discussing a region of about 500,000 people. You want to be able to buy M&S groceries, I'm talking terms of the entire ecomony of four counties.

I'm no Expert on any of this and if you convince me I'll thank you for it....

Let me pose this to you.

If there was a situation engineered on your terms to somehow put in place a perfect retail scenario favouring the Economies of those four Counties as you have detailed - Then what would the desirable outcome be exactly?

Booming UK born City Centre retail outlets like Boots, Next, River Island etc. sending our money offshore?

Retail Business owners driving 7 series BMWs and juggling their tax into safehavens?

Shopping Centres being legislated against in favour of trendy cobbled pedestrianised streets where the wind blows the rubbish around?

Rates, parking prices and product prices driven upwards year on year?


What is the real and a actual benefit to anyone that is not a Retail Business Owner?

Whats to support here exactly?

- Should I for some reason be delighted and relieved that Limerick City or Ennis or Nenagh is packed with People out shopping for iPods and Ugg Boots?

I know you could argue that the VAT take will go on to fund our Schools, Hospitals, Roads and other Public services/amenities - But History and the evidence of what you see around you every day will tell you that it won't!!!

Amazotheamazing

Raiser wrote: »

I'm no Expert on any of this and if you convince me I'll thank you for it....

Let me pose this to you.

If there was a situation engineered on your terms to somehow put in place a perfect retail scenario favouring the Economies of those four Counties as you have detailed - Then what would the desirable outcome be exactly?

Booming UK born City Centre retail outlets like Boots, Next, River Island etc. sending our money offshore?

Retail Business owners driving 7 series BMWs and juggling their tax into safehavens?

Shopping Centres being legislated against in favour of trendy cobbled pedestrianised streets where the wind blows the rubbish around?

Rates, parking prices and product prices driven upwards year on year?


- What is the real and a actual benefit to anyone that is not a Retail Business Owner? Whats to support here exactly?

Tbh, I haven't the time or energy (or maybe even the ability) to educate you. I suggest you start reading books by guys like Tim Harford and Richard Florida. The Tipping Point by Malcom Gladwell and Freakonomics by Levitt (iirc) are also worth a read. I'm not in Limerick atm, but when I get back (a few months from now) I'll happily lend you my copies of books by the aforementioned. Also, occasionally Stephen Kinsella, an economist from UL, gives free talks in the White House, you should check them out.

But just incase you think I'm being glib, it's not an either/or scenario. In some situations a shopping centre is desireable, in some situations a city centre location is desireable. I've nothing against shopping centres, or UK traders like M&S taking our money off shore (since they provide employment etc). You need to start thinking about the big picture here, what kind of city do you want Limerick to be? What kind of region would you like Thomond to be?

Raiser

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Tbh, I haven't the time or energy (or maybe even the ability) to educate you. I suggest you start reading books by guys like Tim Harford and Richard Florida. The Tipping Point by Malcom Gladwell and Freakonomics by Levitt (iirc) are also worth a read. I'm not in Limerick atm, but when I get back (a few months from now) I'll happily lend you my copies of books by the aforementioned. Also, occasionally Stephen Kinsella, an economist from UL, gives free talks in the White House, you should check them out.

Well while I do appreciate and recognise the fact that you happen to have a certain elevated viewpoint based on a bibliography that almost matches Amazons product catalogue I really wouldn't give you any credit for such a cop out.

- Levitt himself has been quoted as saying "I would advise People not to read my published works if they are prone to arrogance and might subsequently lose the ability to hold reasoned and rational debate"

Amazotheamazing

Raiser wrote: »

Well while I do appreciate and recognise the fact that you happen to have a certain elevated viewpoint based on a bibliography that almost matches Amazons product catalogue I really wouldn't give you any credit for such a cop out.

- Levitt himself has been quoted as saying "I would advise People not to read my published works if they are prone to arrogance and might subsequently lose the ability to hold reasoned and rational debate"

But you see, I don't agree fully with either Levitt or Gladwell, hence I suggested you read both. When you read them, you'll see how they contradict each other and you'll be better able to decide which one you believe.

Were I an economist I probably could explain these things in a few lines, but I'm not, and rather than give you misleading information, I'm giving you easily read sources to make up your own mind. It's up to you, I can't make you drink.

osarusan

Raiser wrote: »

Booming UK born City Centre retail outlets like Boots, Next, River Island etc. sending our money offshore?

Thankfully the plucky and independent Irish shop Marks and Spencer will give all its money to defenceless orphaned puppies.

You're arguing that the centre of Limerick is inadequate and unattractive, yet want to allow a shop like M & S into the crescent? How will that help the development of the city centre?

Mc Love

Will the pedestrianisation of the CC improve it? Doubt it to be honest. Making it look good is hard enough if there will be no commercial units left.

Even Clancy's pulled out from there - who will be next?

Stab*City

sparkysrovers wrote: »

Will the pedestrianisation of the CC improve it? Doubt it to be honest. Making it look good is hard enough if there will be no commercial units left.

Even Clancy's pulled out from there - who will be next?

I agree here i mean who cares if the place is pedestrianised when there is F**KING nothing in there worth going in for!! BT, Debenhams and a million €2 stores do not amount to a shopping mecca as i have said before! Add to that no cinema and rain and cold ill stick to the crescent thanks.. And everyone i know is the same all my family even from the northside shop in the crescent.. and they would know a good shopping place as they are all women.. id say i could count on two hands the amount of times i have left my car while in town the latter half of this year..

I have a question though would it be possible for the crecent to build up rather than out? Also enough with the walkways/outdoor ameneties!! Does anybody realise we dont have the weather for these things 85% of the year..

Mc Love

AFAIK they cant build up, something due to the land/foundations. Found that when the new part was being built way back in 00/01 when working in TESCO

Raiser

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

[SNIP]{Advanced Academic Analysis Academy}[/SNIP] It's up to you, I can't make you drink.

Keep going - you're certainly well on the way to driving me to it!!!

osarusan wrote: »

Thankfully the plucky and independent Irish shop Marks and Spencer will give all its money to defenceless orphaned puppies.

You're arguing that the centre of Limerick is inadequate and unattractive, yet want to allow a shop like M & S into the crescent? How will that help the development of the city centre?

I don't recognise anything in the above in relation to my stated views on this thread?

- You've everything so backwards that at a guess I'd say when you go to the Cinema you sit facing the Projectionist!!!!

zuroph

i like the parkway.

Raiser

zuroph wrote: »

i like the parkway.

Its mainly just yourself and the Staff in attendance in the Parkway Zurpoh!!!

- Although it does make Castletroy SC seem mobbed; I heard recently that they wanted to take a few publicity photos and had to hire in People to be pictured strolling around in there!!!

osarusan

Raiser wrote: »

I don't recognise anything in the above in relation to my stated views on this thread?

- You've everything so backwards that at a guess I'd say when you go to the Cinema you sit facing the Projectionist!!!!

You argue that regeneration of the town centre will just line the pockets of foreign businessmen as the money goes offshore.

Yet you want to bring in M & S to the Crsecent.

I think there is a contradiction in those views.

Amazotheamazing

Raiser wrote: »

Keep going - you're certainly well on the way to driving me to it!!!

I don't mean to be short with you but it's pretty clear you've no real interest in the topic in a larger sense. A city is more than just shops. It's supposedly the focus of the wider community, it should have offices, parks, theatres, apartments, pubs, restaurants, brothels, schools, galleries, colleges and a host of other amenities. Limerick city should be the focal point of the entire midwest.

You don't seem to see this, and as long as you see the world in the context of one shop in a shopping centre, you won't see it. I suggested some easy to read books that might help you see the real nature of economies and cities and you just threw back some answers you felt were smart but just seemed ignorant to me.

phog

Raiser wrote: »

Phog your query on when the People of Limerick expressed a clear and overwhelming preference for the Crescent can be answered by by your other point relating to the traffic levels - What could be a clearer expression of support than shunning Limerick City and frequenting the Crescent by the hundreds of thousands?

To be honest that's just plain silly, how you read traffic volumes into support for a planning application is beyond me. There is even a possibility that people will get fed up waiting to enter or exit the place if the congest it anymore with additional buildings.

irishvamp90

Why not encourage small traders like the english market in cork,we dont need more uk souless chain stores

concussion

I don't care if my supermarket has a soul, or is British (or German, or anything else for that matter). Cheap goods and long opening hours are what I want. The exception to that would be my local butcher, supermarket meat is ridiculously expensive for the quality you get.

panda100

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I don't mean to be short with you but it's pretty clear you've no real interest in the topic in a larger sense. A city is more than just shops. It's supposedly the focus of the wider community, it should have offices, parks, theatres, apartments, pubs, restaurants, brothels, schools, galleries, colleges and a host of other amenities. Limerick city should be the focal point of the entire midwest.

Uh no, brothels add nothing to a city except for the suppresion of female sexuality and the continued oppression and commodification of our bodies. However, I do agree with the sentiment behind your post.

One thing I've really noticed about Limerick is the lack of late night comfy coffee shops in the city centre. One of the main reasons I go into Dublin city when Im up there is to read a good book,relax or meet freinds wth a nce mug of Hot chocolate. Since Java's has gone there is no where nice to sit and have a coffee. This mean that for me Limerick is know soley about retail shopping and pubs,it seems to have completely lost its soul.

Amazotheamazing

panda100 wrote: »

Uh no, brothels add nothing to a city except for the suppresion of female sexuality and the continued oppression and commodification of our bodies. However, I do agree with the sentiment behind your post.

One thing I've really noticed about Limerick is the lack of late night comfy coffee shops in the city centre. One of the main reasons I go into Dublin city when Im up there is to read a good book,relax or meet freinds wth a nce mug of Hot chocolate. Since Java's has gone there is no where nice to sit and have a coffee. This mean that for me Limerick is know soley about retail shopping and pubs,it seems to have completely lost its soul.

I was sure you would have known I was joking about the brothels. My point is a city is more than just shops.

If one was to rebuild Limerick city centre it would be very different. I'd love to knock Todds and give Limerick a proper city centre square with cafes, pubs and restaurants facing it. Relocate Brown Thomas to somewhere else.

Amazotheamazing

irishvamp90 wrote: »

Why not encourage small traders like the english market in cork,we dont need more uk souless chain stores

The Milk Market is undergoing development that will hopefully make it something similar to the English market in Cork.

RonMexico

Not everybody can/wants to drive across the city to the CSS. If you don't drive and live at the other side of the city then it is a pain in the hole to shop in the Crescent.

Also not every retailer is rolling in cash and driving a 7 series like some people in this thread are suggesting. Some of the notions people have about business owners are ludicrous and just indicate the bitter small town mentality that blights this country. The amount of people who assume that just because you have a business that you are automatically a millionaire sitting at home wiping your ass with wads of cash is baffling. FYI lots of business owners are in severe financial difficulty, with a lot of them just about breaking even and some even operating at a loss. Every penny that goes into the till does not automatically transfer to their pocket like some idiots seem to think. Most business owners have crippling overheads - wages, rent, rates, electricity, refuse etc. It is no coincidence that the city council have yet to receive all the rates this year - businesses can't afford to pay them!

On the rates issue did you know that they use the same method to calculate a businesses rates in the city centre as they do for a business on the outskirts. There is no allowance for the fact that the business on the outskirts is not exposed to the same passing traffic/footfall as the business on O'Connell Street. Also do you think it is fair that a small independent Irish business has their rates calculated in the same way as an English Chain Store like Boots or Next?

The council need to radically revise the rates system as at the moment it is grossly unfair to small independent Irish businesses. Which is why they are closing left, right and center.

keane2097

Raiser wrote: »

The Crescent is like a Travellers Utopia, its a Mecca for anyone with a horn for their Cousin and a silk waistcoat with slip on shoes!!! Not really many Limerick Scumbags there though, especially when you compare it to Limerick City where daylight robbery is more than just a throwaway expression.

Raiser wrote: »

- Should I for some reason be delighted and relieved that Limerick City or Ennis or Nenagh is packed with People out shopping for iPods and Ugg Boots?

Raiser wrote: »

Well while I do appreciate and recognise the fact that you happen to have a certain elevated viewpoint based on a bibliography that almost matches Amazons product catalogue I really wouldn't give you any credit for such a cop out.

Raiser wrote: »

Keep going - you're certainly well on the way to driving me to it!!!

…

- You've everything so backwards that at a guess I'd say when you go to the Cinema you sit facing the Projectionist!!!!

Raiser, while I'm sure you're a lovely person, the more posts I read from you the more ignorant, embittered and just generally unpleasant you appear to be.

I find myself hoping against my better nature that your shopping experiences become even more dissatisfying.

Probably because I'd nearly wager it would have the opposite effect on most peoples'.

D-A-V-E

Look at the size of Limerick city, small, and yet we have more retail and shopping centres than any other city of its size..probably in europe!

this was in the irish times, this sums up Limerick perfectly

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/1130/1224259710208.html

concussion

I'm quite saddened to see the Irish Times use the phrase "recession-tastic".

Mc Love

its better than stab city

grenache

phog wrote: »

Like any other Irish city really. BTW, the tracksuits can be seen in the Crescent too :eek:

Way more lowlifes in the city centre, way way more. Sure there's a few visible in the Crescent too but they're generally vastly outnumbered by normal folk. I'd shop in the Crescent any day over the City. There's feck all decent shops in the city centre anwway.

Lapsed Catholic

grenache wrote: »

Way more lowlifes in the city centre, way way more. Sure there's a few visible in the Crescent too but they're generally vastly outnumbered by normal folk. I'd shop in the Crescent any day over the City. There's feck all decent shops in the city centre anwway.

What do you consider a decent shop?

dellas1979

Limerick city is sad looking and no doubt could do with a serious face lift.

If I remember correctly one of the reasons city council turned down marks and sparks in the crescent is that it wanted it in the city centre on bedford row (unit where they found that old church), among other problems of building onto the crescent and traffic issues.

For what ever reason, M&S would not take that city centre space.

Parking in the city is terrible -absolutely terrible and at an extortionate price. I find it very hard to justify going to the city centre now.

I am really really looking forward to the renovation on the milk market. I only hope when it is done that it is not neglected and advertised appropriately. I find limerick terrible for advertising things. No signs. No enticing. Parking around there is impossible also so may detract from customers.

Henry street I think is a great success.

We need cobbled streets too up near the top of o connell street. I think little features like this with the new buildings would be fabulous.

Mc Love

That space is nowhere near big enough for M&S! Plus they would need car park next to it.

I love the facelift of the Bank of Ireland though!

Mc Love

That space is nowhere near big enough for M&S! Plus they would need car park next to it.

I love the facelift of the Bank of Ireland though!

Aidric

dellas1979 wrote: »

If I remember correctly one of the reasons city council turned down marks and sparks in the crescent is that it wanted it in the city centre on bedford row (unit where they found that old church), among other problems of building onto the crescent and traffic issues.

For what ever reason, M&S would not take that city centre space.

I don't think this is true. As far as I'm aware M&S were to be tenants in the new Opera centre.

macca 1

Although it's not referred to in this thread much, I feel people are intimidated by the sheer number of scumbags hanging round the city, particularly at the weekend. I'm by no means a shrinking violet, 6'2" & 14 stone, but I was in town over christmas & was constantly checking behind me while walking up cruises st. I go out in town frequently on weekend nights, never had any hassle & never feel threatened, but if these daytime animals came at you en masse you might take 2 or 3 down only to fall victim to the rest of 'em. A bit 'off topic' I know but it's certainly relevant since a lot of people I talk to say the same. A more obvious Garda prescence would undoubtedly make a difference, people won't go somewhere where they don't feel safe. Incidentally I live in Clare, & drive through the city to shop in the crescent every week.

grenache

Lapsed Catholic wrote: »

What do you consider a decent shop?

A decent mens clothes shop like Next! I also like shopping in Shaws if i want some budget clothes that won't shrink after one wash, unlike the stuff Pennys in town sell.

Raiser

keane2097 wrote: »

Raiser, while I'm sure you're a lovely person, the more posts I read from you the more ignorant, embittered and just generally unpleasant you appear to be.

I find myself hoping against my better nature that your shopping experiences become even more dissatisfying.

Probably because I'd nearly wager it would have the opposite effect on most peoples'.

Keane I'm far from being a lovely Person - am just developing my enemies list

- From all the quotes you've provided explaining your disapproval of me am I to conclude that you are an Ugg boot-wearing, iPhone using Traveller who is head over heels for Kranks Korner and da cuzzin?!?!?!?

P.S. Fixed your size problem for you.....

macca 1 wrote: »

Although it's not referred to in this thread much, I feel people are intimidated by the sheer number of scumbags hanging round the city, particularly at the weekend. I'm by no means a shrinking violet, 6'2" & 14 stone, but I was in town over christmas & was constantly checking behind me while walking up cruises st. I go out in town frequently on weekend nights, never had any hassle & never feel threatened, but if these daytime animals came at you en masse you might take 2 or 3 down only to fall victim to the rest of 'em. A bit 'off topic' I know but it's certainly relevant since a lot of people I talk to say the same. A more obvious Garda prescence would undoubtedly make a difference, people won't go somewhere where they don't feel safe. Incidentally I live in Clare, & drive through the city to shop in the crescent every week.

Let me give this as an example - No Limerick Garda could in all sincerity, decency or honesty turn to a Family Member and say that his 18 year old Nephew Joe Bloggs is in any way safe while out in Limerick City between the hours of say 8pm and 3am.

- Although I will add that seeing as most Limerick Gardaí have never seen Limerick City Centre after dark then it might confuse the issue for them......

Its a lawless survival of the fittest on those streets - If I had an 18 year old Son out on that Town I wouldn't sleep until I heard the front door close after them and thats based on almost 20 years of observation first hand.