Irish Obesity

Bugnug

I am increasingly aware of the amount of over weight people in Ireland in the last 5 to 8 years. This is becoming a serious problem and with the obesity rates soaring this is going to be a huge burden on the health system and tax payers in the next 10,15, 20 years? Why is this becoming such an issue and what can be done to stop it?

seanfromshankil

Problem is easy access to dheap, unhealthy foods.. Like, kids surviving on a diet of McDonalds and that crap you heat up in the oven at home, college students living off koka noodles and whatnot.. Combined with a lack of excercise and an expectation that if you're "a little out of shape" everyone'll be nice about it.
Like when was the last time you heard an obese person having that pointed out to them? It just doesn't seem to happen!

Owen

Get rid of sweet counters in stores. We train children from a young age in Ireland and the UK that sweets are a part of everyday life, and we have counters the size of your average deli section in every small supermarket, right at the checkout, when the temptation to impulse buy is at it's best.

In mainland Europe you don't really get that. In Poland, I see kids snacking on little dried sausages all the time, and juices, rather than mars bars and coke.

Bugnug

I suppose all of that would help but why is the diet so bad in Ireland. We are an Island surrounded by some of the freshest fish waters in the world and we grow and produce some of the best meat and vegetables in the world. I am constantly bewildered by the amount of **** people put into their bodies when there is so much healthy tasty and cheaper produce available. Another thing that would help, if people got of thier arses and went for a walk in the evenings instead of 2 - 3 hours of **** tv.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Bugnug

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Great idea do you know if this system exists in other countries? You also mention smoking and we are all aware of the dangers and side effects of that. I was in hospital recently for a minor procedure and I was stunned at the amount of people out smoking in the shelter. These people are in hospital for treatment and they are continuing to smoke. Is it just me or are these people complete morons?

jam_mac_jam

I think some of it is also cultural in this country, people in other European countries can be more concerned about the way they look, this obviously has its bad points and in the same way you would not see a French woman going out in a tracksuit they generally do not allow them selves to get as fat as we do. Not saying that there are no fat people in France but I am sure the cultural acceptance of it in this country contributes.

I was in a conversation recently about a "bad" and "mean" doctor who had told a girl she was obese, the reaction from everyone was oh my god what a bastard, what a bad doctor, maybe she should have listened but no its acceptable to be fat and not acceptable to say anything as you might hurt somebodies feelings.

Bugnug

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You are right it seems acceptable now to be fat in Ireland but you dare not mention to any fat person about their weight. Both my wife and I have good diets and exercise regularly. It really pisses both of us of when people in the office say things like "oh you lucky so and so you can eat whatever you want and you never put on weight" and your standing their thinking how dare you, I work hard at staying fit and healthy and you can just walk all over with a throw away comment because you constantly stuff your face with **** and then sit on your lazy ass watching tv all evening.
Here is a good example of a guy I work with who is grossly over weight. He often walks up to me in an office full of people an will say "ah there ya are, your some skinny bastard" and everybody will smile as if it is some sort of compliment. What do you think the reaction might be if I answered back " ah how are you keepin you fat bastard"

chocgirl

I agree that access to cheap crap food is part of the problem, fruit and veg cost a fortune compared to starchy processed junk. Don't think that the sweets at the counter are at fault though, it's the parents buying the sweets that need to cop on.

Also as already mentioned there is no longer a stigma attached to being overweight. When I was in primary school there was one overweight girl in a class of 35, nobody danced around the fact she was overweight including teachers or parents. We all thought she was fat because she ate too much and we were right, not nice for children to hear but it's the truth!

Valmont

Bugnug wrote: »

Great idea do you know if this system exists in other countries? You also mention smoking and we are all aware of the dangers and side effects of that. I was in hospital recently for a minor procedure and I was stunned at the amount of people out smoking in the shelter. These people are in hospital for treatment and they are continuing to smoke. Is it just me or are these people complete morons?

It's just you. Yes, their terrible habit is not a great idea but to label them 'morons' is fairly intolerant.

whatdoicare

The bad eating habits are a huge factor- parents don't really take the time (or don't know themselves how) to teach their kids proper cooking skills.
Another thing I've noticed is what I'll call the "Mrs Doyle attitude" where people literally force you to eat. I have noticed my mother sends me up cakes, biscuits and huge dinners to take home if I visit, forces me to eat huge amounts of food while I'm there and friends make me buy whatever crap their eating so they dont feel so bad eating it too.
I didn't notice any of this until I was on a strict eating plan when on medication and couldn't eat sugary or starchy foods. My ghod, even when I told them this they still insisted!! My dad made a joke of it once at my aunts house when she rattled off a huge list of foods (mostly bread and sugar related) to see would I eat them and he started pulling random items out of the press like tins of beans and flour as a joke! I laughed at the time but later realised if I wasn't on the medication and just on a regular diet, I would have eventually cracked and eaten something. These people I see on a nearly daily basis- I put a quick stop to that!

belge boy

Someone said in other European countries this doesn't happen but I can tell you here in Belgium there is a lot of fat kids and we have the same americanised crap that you do.

Laziness tbh.

johnnyskeleton

Bugnug wrote: »

Why is this becoming such an issue and what can be done to stop it?

Personal responsibility. Nothing else.

southsiderosie

belge boy wrote: »

Someone said in other European countries this doesn't happen but I can tell you here in Belgium there is a lot of fat kids and we have the same americanised crap that you do.

In Spain there is a growing problem of obesity, but it is mainly limited to children and the elderly. Spanish 20-35 year olds are generally not overweight, and the women in particular are small-framed. It's frankly pretty startling when I go back to the US...we are HUGE.

There is some interesting recent research that suggests the main factor in the rise in obesity is diet rather than lack of exercise. Children in particular drink a staggering amount of soda. But even if you think you are buying "healthy" food, more likely than not there is some kind of processed sweetener in it (like corn syrup). It's in EVERYTHING from yogurt to whole wheat bread to pasta sauce. One year for Lent I gave up eating anything with added processed sugar in it, and I lost a dress size, since I basically had to make everything myself (fresh veg and tomatoes not prepared pasta sauce) or only eat food in its original form (oats, not bread).

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

miec

I think the increase in obesisty is down to the crap food and sedentary lifestyle. Most processed food is high in sugar, wheat and salt, which means that we grow up with the need for more sugar and wheat. Also we rarely use our bodies properly, how many people walk more than 30 minutes a day and in my mind that is not a lot of exercise. Our lives were a lot more physical in the past, heck we don't even have to wash the dishes by hand anymore, everything is done by machines. I used to a postwoman in the UK and I could eat anything because I burned up so much energy so exercise makes a huge difference. If we became more active and ate better then obesisty would be reduced. Another factor I believe is that sometimes people mistake thirst for hunger, they eat instead of having a drink of water. However, whilst it is deeply worrying about the rise in obesisty, I think attacking people who are obese is not on in the same way that slim people should not be slagged off either.

Petrosky

seanfromshankil wrote: »

Problem is easy access to dheap, unhealthy foods.. Like, kids surviving on a diet of McDonalds and that crap you heat up in the oven at home, college students living off koka noodles and whatnot.. Combined with a lack of excercise and an expectation that if you're "a little out of shape" everyone'll be nice about it.
Like when was the last time you heard an obese person having that pointed out to them? It just doesn't seem to happen!

No, it's not always down to McDonalds. I eat the most perfect diet imaginable..salmon, salads, low fat everything, fruit and vegetables. I am 5ft8", 13st10lbs, have a belly like a pregnant camel and CANNOT lose weight. I also don't drink or smoke and eat an almost minimal amount of foods..sometimes skipping a meal. I have to keep buying larger sizes in everything. I have now given up and resigned myself to it as, despite GPs,Herbalists, Dieticians nothing works for me. I think I would be fat in a concentration camp. I can eat McD's crap or Salads..it's all the same so to hell with it.

1967

Petrosky wrote: »

No, it's not always down to McDonalds. I eat the most perfect diet imaginable..salmon, salads, low fat everything, fruit and vegetables. I am 5ft8", 13st10lbs, have a belly like a pregnant camel and CANNOT lose weight. I also don't drink or smoke and eat an almost minimal amount of foods..sometimes skipping a meal. I have to keep buying larger sizes in everything. I have now given up and resigned myself to it as, despite GPs,Herbalists, Dieticians nothing works for me. I think I would be fat in a concentration camp. I can eat McD's crap or Salads..it's all the same so to hell with it.

Do you drink a lot of soft drinks as these are full of sugar there is the equivalent of 42 spoons of sugar in a two litre bottle of coke/7up etc also do you exercise as it helps to keep weight down,please dont think i am having a dig at you i am not as i am one of the people who ate all the crap and junk drank gallons of soft drinks and gallons of cider and ballooned to over twenty one stone and two years ago developed diabetes.

Petrosky

1967 wrote: »

Do you drink a lot of soft drinks as these are full of sugar there is the equivalent of 42 spoons of sugar in a two litre bottle of coke/7up etc also do you exercise as it helps to keep weight down,please dont think i am having a dig at you i am not as i am one of the people who ate all the crap and junk drank gallons of soft drinks and gallons of cider and ballooned to over twenty one stone and two years ago developed diabetes.

No, soft drinks never pass my lips.. hate coke as a matter of fact. I do NOT, however, exercise as I have an aversion to it because there is a catch 22 operating here, I carry so much excess weight that even 5 minutes walking exhausts me and Gyms are anathema to me. Incidentally, I have not Diabetes or Thyroid problems.. usually the cause of inability to lose weight..... so, where do I go ?

silverharp

Agricultural subsidies are part of the problem for sure.


from the World Health Orgaisation

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/.../en/index.html

Therefore CAP, while established on the basis of sound public health principles, may now have become a hazard to public health throughout the EU and may be promoting inequalities in health through the types of food consumed. This might controversially be described as “a system designed to kill Europeans through CHD”.15

congress3

Bugnug wrote: »

You are right it seems acceptable now to be fat in Ireland but you dare not mention to any fat person about their weight. Both my wife and I have good diets and exercise regularly. It really pisses both of us of when people in the office say things like "oh you lucky so and so you can eat whatever you want and you never put on weight" and your standing their thinking how dare you, I work hard at staying fit and healthy and you can just walk all over with a throw away comment because you constantly stuff your face with **** and then sit on your lazy ass watching tv all evening.
Here is a good example of a guy I work with who is grossly over weight. He often walks up to me in an office full of people an will say "ah there ya are, your some skinny bastard" and everybody will smile as if it is some sort of compliment. What do you think the reaction might be if I answered back " ah how are you keepin you fat bastard"

I know exactly what you mean. I can just see myself exploding one of these days when some of these fat arses make's an excuse for me being in shape or for themselves being overweight.
But then again I probably won't as its not pc.

1967

Petrosky wrote: »

No, soft drinks never pass my lips.. hate coke as a matter of fact. I do NOT, however, exercise as I have an aversion to it because there is a catch 22 operating here, I carry so much excess weight that even 5 minutes walking exhausts me and Gyms are anathema to me. Incidentally, I have not Diabetes or Thyroid problems.. usually the cause of inability to lose weight..... so, where do I go ?

Well for the sake of your health i would recommend walking you can start gradual and just keep building it up as time goes on,any form of exercise is far better than none.As i said i was over 21st and a total slob but when u wake up in intensive care after a few days to be told that you are diabetic and that u had died twice you quickly re-evaluate things,when i left hospital after a fortnight i started walking nothing too great but i built it up every day just going that bit further,i lost 9stone in six months i now go to the gym a few times a week and have done for the last year although i have put on a bit of weight its muscle as my body fat has decreased and muscle is heavier than fat.I hope u reconsider the walking because weight wise there is no comparison between what i was and what u are and even now i am less then a stone lighter although i would be taller at 6'4'' you really can do it its just a matter of making time.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I'm in second year nutrition at the moment. I don't think its much down to a change in food. Just people are far less active than they used to be.

If you have kids you should really get them to go to a sports club. They'll be more likely to join sports teams in college and after etc then.

I'm worried its jsut goign to get worse, its increasingly socially acceptable to be fat. Some people seem to think its on the same level as racism sectarianism to frown upon overweight people.

Petrosky

1967 wrote: »

Well for the sake of your health i would recommend walking you can start gradual and just keep building it up as time goes on,any form of exercise is far better than none.As i said i was over 21st and a total slob but when u wake up in intensive care after a few days to be told that you are diabetic and that u had died twice you quickly re-evaluate things,when i left hospital after a fortnight i started walking nothing too great but i built it up every day just going that bit further,i lost 9stone in six months i now go to the gym a few times a week and have done for the last year although i have put on a bit of weight its muscle as my body fat has decreased and muscle is heavier than fat.I hope u reconsider the walking because weight wise there is no comparison between what i was and what u are and even now i am less then a stone lighter although i would be taller at 6'4'' you really can do it its just a matter of making time.

Yes, quite see everything you are saying. Starting to-day with a 15 minute walk, mixing medium pace with brisk pace, and increasing it by 5 minutes every day. I have also FREE access to a Staff gym and once I get over the awkwardness of working out beside super-fit young things I should be well on the way to recovery. Thanks for telling me what I probably realised all along.

icescreamqueen

As a primary school teacher, there are no overweight children in my school but then I teach in a Junior School. Younger children tend to be more active and burn up more energy. I've noticed that around the age 8 mark is a critical age for becoming overweight. Children need to be active and learn good habits from an early age. It's so important for every part of a child's development to take part in some kind of sport or physical activity. Children need a break from their addictive games consoles but then if they weren't given them in the first place, they wouldn't be addicted. I also think that (some) of the parents of Ireland have a lot to answer for. They need to be good role models for their children. Poor eating habits and being underactive, lazy reflects badly on your child. I've noticed that obsese parent generally means obsese child. In my school, there is a healthy eating policy whereby sweets, fizzy drinks, crisps etc are strictly banned. There are always the parents who bend the rules and put fizzy drinks into beakers, trying to disguise it as orange juice etc. I also think that people need to be educated to read food labels properly and eat within their RDA. I was in a well known supermarket a few weeks ago and I always check the food labels in this shop as I know how bad they are for drowning the food in salt and sugar! I picked up a packet of sausage rolls and each roll had 20% of your RDA of fat! Bear in mind, these sausage rolls were barely bigger than a postage stamp! I find it shocking that supermarkets and food producers are allowed to put so much crap into food and get away with it!

Petrosky

I agree. My energy output is zilch and no matter how good my diet it is of no avail. I also agree about Supermarkets. The salt cellar is banned from my house because I have slightly elevated BP but you cannot avoid it along with fat and sugar if you go shopping. The only way is to eat completely natural...greens etc. but I find this kind of stuff indigestible so it is back to label checking. I diversify so in the end it is about sensible and frugal eating combined with regular activity. This is the way I must go.

1967

Petrosky wrote: »

Yes, quite see everything you are saying. Starting to-day with a 15 minute walk, mixing medium pace with brisk pace, and increasing it by 5 minutes every day. I have also FREE access to a Staff gym and once I get over the awkwardness of working out beside super-fit young things I should be well on the way to recovery. Thanks for telling me what I probably realised all along.

Best of luck with it just remember rome wasn't built in a day and everyones metabolism is different so just go at your own pace any amount of exercise is better than sitting at home watching tv, as regards the gym i also did not go near one for 12 months but now i go three four times a week.As i said very best of luck with it there will be days you wont want to go out bad weather and such but persevere.

Macha

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

He also mentions a very interesting theory on obesity in his book "In Defense of Food".

One scientist has posited that today's food is far less nutritionally dense than it was, say, 50 years ago. For example, we would need to eat 5 slices of bread to get the same level of vitamins as eating 1 slice of bread in the 1950s. As a result, we need to eat more food to take in the same amount of vitamins. Essentially, he argues that obesity is the body's attempt to get these nutrients by ingesting larger and larger quantities of calorie-rich, nutrient-poor food.

I'm not sure I buy the theory but it's definitely food for thought (ahem).

syklops

belge boy wrote: »

Someone said in other European countries this doesn't happen but I can tell you here in Belgium there is a lot of fat kids and we have the same americanised crap that you do.

The other person said Eastern Europe, and its true. In the Czech republic, the only fat people you see are expats and tourists. We have McDonalds here aswell, but for a city half the size of dublin there is only about 7-8 restaraunts, and no Burger King, compared to dublin which has about 30 McDonalds.

That said its not McDonalds fault. When it comes to Adult Obesity the problem is exercise, and the age when it falls apart is 18. Before eighteen, teenagers have to take part in sport at school. At 18 they are no longer required to do sport, and at the same time they start drinking. Swapping spending 2 hours in the sports gym of an evening to spending 3 hours in the pub, and guess what happens.

Most people end up working in offices of some form now a days, which is 8 hours of sitting, add in a 2 hour commute(there and back), and by the time the evening comes most people are too knackered to do anything and end up ordering Dominos Pizza and watching CSI:Finglas.

To tackle obesity, we dont have to find a way to get people to exercise, we need to find a way to prevent people from stopping exercise when they are 18.

Macha

syklops wrote: »

To tackle obesity, we dont have to find a way to get people to exercise, we need to find a way to prevent people from stopping exercise when they are 18.

While I agree that reduced exercise is a significant factor in obesity, I believe that diet is the key to a healthy weight. Recent research studies show that increasing exercise levels without tackling diet has little or no effect on weight loss. From Precision Nutrition:

One, done at the University of Texas, showed that with 6 hours of strength + cardio exercise per week for 3 straight months, participants only lost 1lb of fat vs. their completely sedentary counterparts.

Another, done at the University of Oklahoma, showed that with 5 hours of strength + cardio exercise per week for 2.5 months, participants only lose 1.5lbs of fat vs. their sedentary counterparts.

What does work was a calorie-controlled diet with reduced amounts of refined carbohydrates/sugar and feck-loads of vegetables.

And exercise may have other knock-on effects like increased interest in health and healthy eating but exercise is not going to solve the obesity problem without tackling the national diet first.

Bottle_of_Smoke

taconnol wrote: »

He also mentions a very interesting theory on obesity in his book "In Defense of Food".

One scientist has posited that today's food is far less nutritionally dense than it was, say, 50 years ago. For example, we would need to eat 5 slices of bread to get the same level of vitamins as eating 1 slice of bread in the 1950s. As a result, we need to eat more food to take in the same amount of vitamins. Essentially, he argues that obesity is the body's attempt to get these nutrients by ingesting larger and larger quantities of calorie-rich, nutrient-poor food.

I'm not sure I buy the theory but it's definitely food for thought (ahem).

I'd be sceptical of that. Had to do a study for class. Myself and two other lads measured our food intake for four days. Had to literally weigh everything we ate and take note.

All three of us had above the RNI (reference nutrient intake - the amount of the nutrient sufficient to meed the body's needs in 97.5% of the population) for Vit C, Vit B12, vit A, Calcium, Iron, folate, naiacin, riboflavin. In many cases over twice or three times the RNI amount. Only one of the guys was above normal BMI and none of us had particularly good diets. Admittedly a small sample of course

skyclops wrote:

To tackle obesity, we dont have to find a way to get people to exercise, we need to find a way to prevent people from stopping exercise when they are 18.

Agreed, I think one possible idea would be free health insurance for those who can show they regularly excersise at a gym or play sports for a team. Perhaps a refund for gym fees if someone goes to it an average of twice a week too.

Bottle_of_Smoke

One, done at the University of Texas, showed that with 6 hours of strength + cardio exercise per week for 3 straight months, participants only lost 1lb of fat vs. their completely sedentary counterparts.

Another, done at the University of Oklahoma, showed that with 5 hours of strength + cardio exercise per week for 2.5 months, participants only lose 1.5lbs of fat vs. their sedentary counterparts.

Find that quite surprising. 6 hours is a hell of a lot per week. Do you know what the study was called? might be useful in my exam on friday:pac:

metrovelvet

taconnol wrote: »

He also mentions a very interesting theory on obesity in his book "In Defense of Food".

One scientist has posited that today's food is far less nutritionally dense than it was, say, 50 years ago. For example, we would need to eat 5 slices of bread to get the same level of vitamins as eating 1 slice of bread in the 1950s. As a result, we need to eat more food to take in the same amount of vitamins. Essentially, he argues that obesity is the body's attempt to get these nutrients by ingesting larger and larger quantities of calorie-rich, nutrient-poor food.

I'm not sure I buy the theory but it's definitely food for thought (ahem).

That is American produce, which I well believe. Look into montsanto and what they do. I think Irish produce is still pretty good.

Macha

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Find that quite surprising. 6 hours is a hell of a lot per week. Do you know what the study was called? might be useful in my exam on friday:pac:

Afraid I don't but here is John Berardi talking about it (Point 2 or 3) in a video:

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/6-tips-for-a-fitter-2010

Petrosky

What is surprising is this thread has produced some inane postings by people who just like to blabber on about anything. Not one posting seems to give an answer as to how one can lose weight in simple language. To me it seems that just eating less and exercising more is the answer.

Petrosky

You have said it. That, virtually, is the story of most obese people's lives. What most do not realise is that weight creeps up imperceptibly. You say that biscuit or cake will not make much difference. Have it every day and calories accumulate. The same with not exercising. Too tired or it is too cold to take that 30 minute walk.. o'kay one day but let a week go by and you have a deposit in your Fat Account that will take some spending.

Handsome Bob

Bugnug wrote: »

Why is this becoming such an issue and what can be done to stop it?

What can be done to stop it? In regards to adults, nothing other than personal realisation and will power.

In regards to kids, it's more complicated unfortunately. Education from as early as possible is one solution. However, for that to work there would have to be a genuine effort from a number of groups. Schools, parents and the government will have to collaborate but I can't see that happening. The government is the main problem in my opinion because any initiative they introduce will only be designed to provide lip service to the interest groups that have leaned on them. They wouldn't introduce a serious and comprehensive initiative to fight obesity because I imagine they make quite a lot of money from people's eating habits.

Excaptain

chocgirl wrote: »

I agree that access to cheap crap food is part of the problem, fruit and veg cost a fortune compared to starchy processed junk.


Is this a myth though used by lazy people? For example you can buy a bag of apples in Aldi for .49c and they are pretty nice too. Its all personal choice and people have to be responsible for their actions. Guaranteed you could whip up a good nutritious meal for two for the same price as a large McDonalds meal.
If you eat crap and don't exercise your gonna put on weight. I hate this genetics argument thrown about too, nonsense.

thebaldsoprano

Petrosky wrote: »

What is surprising is this thread has produced some inane postings by people who just like to blabber on about anything. Not one posting seems to give an answer as to how one can lose weight in simple language. To me it seems that just eating less and exercising more is the answer.

I'm not being smart here, but try training for and running a marathon. The problem switches from losing weight to keeping it a lot quicker than you'd think!

Wibbs

We're "designed" by nature to store fat reserves just in case. Some have a higher fat storage tendency. Now thats fine but we're not supposed to store such fat as an ongoing thing.

Then look at the current average western diet. Forget fats IMHO. Sugar intake is the biggy. In the wild we simply would not get sugar to the degree we have it in our daily lives. That spoonful of sugar in your tea? Not in the wild. And thats just the obvious sugars. Yes we had access to starchy foods(complex ones too) and made use of them but sugar was very very rare. Honey a couple of times a year tops.

This may sound like serious hyperbole, but IMHO sugar is as big a health issue as tobacco. If you look at very long lived individuals, studies have shown among other advantages, their insulin response is very good out of the box. Look at the studies into longevity and calorie restriction(the only way known currently to extend healthy life) and again insulin is a big factor in it.

Again IMH if you banned sugar as an item in the diet, heart disease, PCOS, obesity, type 2 diabetes and a host of other illnesses would become very rare within a generation, maybe two.

I recall reading about a study in the US in the early 70's when Nixon was calling for a war on cancer. This study was about the impact added and refined sugar had on longevity(not particularly cancer) and it showed a very strong correlation. Apparently the sugar industry went troppo and kept it pretty quiet or at least kept it in academia.

You want to drop weight? I would say reduce then cut out sucrose and fructose. Its in everything now as its cheaper to produce and a lot less tastes a lot sweeter. Add in exercise with a purpose. I think the purpose is needed. I wouls say that walking a mile on a beach is worth more than walking a mile on a treadmill. Sounds daft? Well one study where they got one group to imagine exercising, another group to actually exercise and a third to do nothing, the ones that just imagined exercising had measurable improvemnets over the non exercising control group and werent that far off those who actually exercised. The mind has a huge impact on this.

Wibbs

Excaptain wrote: »

I hate this genetics argument thrown about too, nonsense.

I agree. It has some part to play, but mostly its BS. We're fatter now than our great grandparents were. Very much so. Same genes.

metrovelvet

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree. It has some part to play, but mostly its BS. We're fatter now than our great grandparents were. Very much so. Same genes.

We are also more sedentary. When I see my son and his friend in front of the television, the two of them hypnotised by it, I think of how sickened my late father would be if he saw two vital bright young boys staring at a tv. Hed probably throw it out the window. But now with 500 tv channels, nintendo, dvds, computers, there is a lot more sitting.

Zamboni

Bugnug wrote: »

I am increasingly aware of the amount of over weight people in Ireland in the last 5 to 8 years. This is becoming a serious problem and with the obesity rates soaring this is going to be a huge burden on the health system and tax payers in the next 10,15, 20 years? Why is this becoming such an issue and what can be done to stop it?

As was said earlier it is all down to personal responsibility.
There are a tiny percentage of the population who have genuine medical issues in relation to weight but for the vast majority of us it ultimately comes down to what you choose to eat and (to a lesser extent) how much you choose to get off your arse.

Macha

Zamboni wrote: »

As was said earlier it is all down to personal responsibility.
There are a tiny percentage of the population who have genuine medical issues in relation to weight but for the vast majority of us it ultimately comes down to what you choose to eat and (to a lesser extent) how much you choose to get off your arse.

At what point do we limit the companies involved in, as Pollan puts it, "pushing our evolutionary buttons" for profit?

Why do people have a problem with government intervening on our behalf but see no issue with giving corporations full rein?

Zamboni

taconnol wrote: »

At what point do we limit the companies involved in, as Pollan puts it, "pushing our evolutionary buttons" for profit?

Why do people have a problem with government intervening on our behalf but see no issue with giving corporations full rein?

I certainly accept that companies will do everything they can to exploit our evolutionary biology in order to produce appealing products but is it not still an individuals responsibility to educate themselves about what they (and their children) consume?

miec

I believe the responsibility comes entirely down to ourselves, yes it is a sad fact that manufacturers, the government etc are responsbile for the deploring quality of food but the choice comes down to us.

Wibbs what you said about sugar makes sense to me as sugar has been increased in foodstuffs and it is highly addictive, I know I am currently addicted to sugar and I am really struggling to give it up (feck I quit the fags and alcohol easier) but the chocolate, sweet cakes and biscuits I find it so hard and I have no one to blame but myself. I think that sugar is the real cause of the rocketing obsesity rates in this country, and in its trail is fatty food such as chips, burgers, etc. Also the likes of baguettes and other deli foods are extremely high in calories. I think it comes down to making your own food from scratch or eating raw foods as much as possible. If anyone has any tips on weaning off sugar, I would be really grateful cos I have a stone or two to lose.

In relation to child obesisty, it purely comes down to the parents, but I will add one cavaet, children's food espicially cereals are laden with sugar, (recently I was really narked to see that even ready brek is sucumbing to the chocolate flavoured one, the original ready brek has hardly any sugar) which is addictive and changes behaviour so the kid goes hyper for more sugary food and demands more of it and a lot of parents cave in because they believe it is easier. They do their children a massive diservice, it is hard to be on the child's case in relation to food but they depend on us parents to give them quality food. If we don't buy the crap food, eventually manufacturers will cotton on and change the food accordingly, it is time we stop being manipulated and take proper responsbility.

Macha

Zamboni wrote: »

I certainly accept that companies will do everything they can to exploit our evolutionary biology in order to produce appealing products but is it not still an individuals responsibility to educate themselves about what they (and their children) consume?

Well, if we start with the premise that humans are not pefect - we have biases and built-in cravings for salt, fat and sugar. Add to that the incredible amount of misinformation about nutrition and exercise out there, including:
-saturated fat is bad for you
-large amounts of carbs should make up the bulk of your diet
-large amounts of fruit are good for you
-slow jogging is the best form of exercise

And what education do our kids really get? My parents swallowed the above and fed it onto me. I had to educate myself about nutrition but then I come from a well-off background and can afford to mope around on the internet researching and buying books on the topic.

Add in very sneaky practices by food companies, such as using miserly "serving sizes" in the nutritional label, blatantly targeting children and the insane amounts of money that go into marketing/advertising/promoting junk food vs healthy food (when was the last time you saw an ad for a carrot?) and I think it's fair to say the scales are tipped in favour of one side.

And even if you still believe in personal responsibility, I think better regulation and education makes sense from an economic point of view. We spend massive amounts of money every year on dietary-related preventable illnesses: diabetes, obesity, heart disease, dental decay, etc.

These diseases are appearing in younger and younger age-brackets and while in an ideal world parents would take the reins and educate their children, I think much of this is tantamount to child abuse/neglect and the onus is on the state to intervene as it already does in other cases of neglect. Obese toddlers? They don't even stand a chance.

miec

Hi Taconnol

I think you give a very compelling arguement and I would concur with all you have said and I have learned a thing or two from you but I still believe that a child's weight problem does come down to the parent, I agree that there is an issue with manufacturer's but we all know that eating more veg is healthier for us and that sweets, chocolate, chips, burgers etc are unhealthy and make you fatter. Most obese children are fed the wrong foods and most parents know this but feel unable to control their children's eating habits. I think support and parenting classes that include nutrition are a way forward but still the ultimate responsibility has to come down to the parent.

Macha

miec wrote: »

I think support and parenting classes that include nutrition are a way forward but still the ultimate responsibility has to come down to the parent.

I, too, like the idea of personal responsibility and in an ideal world these things would be left up to the parents.

But the reality is that many children are not being given the basic tools for leading a healthy life, including cooking and healthy eating. I can't ignore reality, just because I would like all parents to be responsible.

I recommend watching Jamie Oliver's TED talk on this topic:

http://www.ted.com/talks/jamie_oliver.html

irishh_bob

Bugnug wrote: »

You are right it seems acceptable now to be fat in Ireland but you dare not mention to any fat person about their weight. Both my wife and I have good diets and exercise regularly. It really pisses both of us of when people in the office say things like "oh you lucky so and so you can eat whatever you want and you never put on weight" and your standing their thinking how dare you, I work hard at staying fit and healthy and you can just walk all over with a throw away comment because you constantly stuff your face with **** and then sit on your lazy ass watching tv all evening.
Here is a good example of a guy I work with who is grossly over weight. He often walks up to me in an office full of people an will say "ah there ya are, your some skinny bastard" and everybody will smile as if it is some sort of compliment. What do you think the reaction might be if I answered back " ah how are you keepin you fat bastard"

thier is a hierarchy of victimhood , jews are above christians , muslims are above jews , tinkers are above settled people , women are above men and overweight people are above skinny people