VEC Secondary Teaching Qualifications Needed?

1Elainey1

Hi guys,
quick question, I am currently on a maternity cover for the year teaching English and History. I have a Hons. Degree and an Hons. Masters in English and History, but I have no PGDE/HDip yet. I am currently being paid the unqualified rate. I heard you don’t need the PGDE to be qualified at VEC level. So could I apply for my subjects to be recognised to get paid the qualified rate by the teaching council, and if so what form would I pick to fill out?
Thanks a mill,

slickmcvic

1Elainey1 wrote: »

Hi guys,
quick question, I am currently on a maternity cover for the year teaching English and History. I have a Hons. Degree and an Hons. Masters in English and History, but I have no PGDE/HDip yet. I am currently being paid the unqualified rate. I heard you don’t need the PGDE to be qualified at VEC level. So could I apply for my subjects to be recognised to get paid the qualified rate by the teaching council, and if so what form would I pick to fill out?
Thanks a mill,

...your more likely to get the unqualified rate in a VEC as they have a office of administrators checking whose qualified and whose not....secondary schools have more autonomy and would probably let you away with it...wouldnt say tooo much anyways,theres alot 'round here that arent too keen on lads without their pgde/dip!!

Powerhouse

There's also plenty around here that are very keen on unqualified teachers getting on so I wouldn't worry about that - any dissenters will be stopped in their tracks by one of the mods who gets very worked up on this particular issue for some undisclosed, but inferrable reason.

To answer your question, if we are to believe what we consistently read here - that the H Dip is not a required qualification for the VEC - then lack of same should not prevent you getting the qualified rate (they cannot have it both ways) as by definition one must be automatically qualified if there is no barrier to entry in terms of an educational (as distinct from an non-education academic qualification) qualification.

TheDriver

Its an interesting one as HDip is not needed to get a permanent job in a VEC school yet it is mooted to change soon. Aside from the whole argument about having a Dip, you are subbing and seem to have the appropriate qualifications so get onto the VEC payroll office regarding it.
The only other thing I can think of is if you are not a member of the teaching council and that may be why they write you down as unqual?
P.S. It doesn't matter if you have a degree in shovelling grit on roads but only if the TC recognise it then its not considered a teaching suitable qualification

ulysses32

TheDriver wrote: »

P.S. It doesn't matter if you have a degree in shovelling grit on roads but only if the TC recognise it then its not considered a teaching suitable qualification

I wish somebody had a degree in shovelling grit! Obviously those with that degree have not been employed over the Christmas period. that's the case in Cork anyway.

Apologies for the divergence.

Back to the point, of course teachers should have a HDip, otherwise we are devaluing the profession as a profession. It needs to be regulated through the Teaching Council otherwise we're in a right mess. If someone really wants to be a teacher then they should have to do the HDip and fulfil the appropriate criteria. If someone wants to be a doctor then they nedd their qualifications and fitness to practice verified by a regulatory body, as do engineers, as do nurses, as do vets, as do accountants, as do solicitors, as do any other profession I can think of.....

Miss Lockhart

Putting aside the rights or wrongs of the situation - to answer your question OP, you do not need a HDIP/PGDE to be considered fully qualified in the VEC sector.

You will be paid the qualified rate by the VEC if your degree is recognised by the Teaching Council. If your degree is recognised you can register with the TC for teaching in the VEC sector.

If your degree is not on the TC's list of automatically recognised degrees then you can apply to them yourself to have it recognised. You will need to do this anyway if you intend to do the PGDE.

1Elainey1

Thanks for your help everyone
Well my degree is a standard N.U.I.G Bachelor Arts, and is on the PGDE handbook as recognised, so Im going to apply to Teaching Council for qualified status, to hell and see what happens, worst case I loose 90 euro, best case - I make more than back the 90 Euro. Will keep ye posted, as its an intersting case !

07472161

1Elainey1 I'm how did you get on? Did you get paid the qualified rate? Im currently in that position now!

babybaby2014

Bump de Bump... A quick query re the above post. For incremental credit, back in the 1990's did you have to have the HDIP to be classed as a qualified teacher in a VEC? For the purposes of getting an increment? Thanks in advance.

TheDriver

Not that I am aware of. You could get PWT status without a HDip or equivalent.

jessaj

I was under the impression that you couldn't teach at all in second level schools unless you had a hdip/pme, is this not the case?

spurious

H. Dip/PME is not the only way to become a teacher. There are also specialist teaching degrees, the holders of which would have neither a H.Dip. nor a PME.

jessaj

I'm more interested in the possibility of teaching without a teaching qualification. I have a degree and masters in the relevant subject, like the OP, and have been teaching at third level for a few years, but I need to pick up a few more hours or leave and get a job in industry. I thought that the new rules meant you could not teach with a VEC or a Community School unless you had a specific teaching qualification, if this is not the case it opens up a lot of possibilities for me.

TheBody

jessaj wrote: »

I'm more interested in the possibility of teaching without a teaching qualification. I have a degree and masters in the relevant subject, like the OP, and have been teaching at third level for a few years, but I need to pick up a few more hours or leave and get a job in industry. I thought that the new rules meant you could not teach with a VEC or a Community School unless you had a specific teaching qualification, if this is not the case it opens up a lot of possibilities for me.

You will need to do the PME. I think what spurious is referring to are degrees like the B.Ed in Science. In degrees like this, you do your teaching modules at the same same as your sublect modules.

jessaj

That's what I thought, I just got a bit excited when I saw the OP's qualifications. It's very frustrating, I'm good at this, and I have a fair amount of experience with different groups, but I don't think I want to teach long term (just for a few more years), so it doesn't make sense for me to put the time and money into the education qualifications. I'd strongly consider a one year program, but two just isn't justifiable.

rainbowtrout

jessaj wrote: »

That's what I thought, I just got a bit excited when I saw the OP's qualifications. It's very frustrating, I'm good at this, and I have a fair amount of experience with different groups, but I don't think I want to teach long term (just for a few more years), so it doesn't make sense for me to put the time and money into the education qualifications. I'd strongly consider a one year program, but two just isn't justifiable.

Maybe you are, but why does that mean you should be allowed to teach without a qualification?

jessaj

I just find it frustrating that I cannot substitute relevant experience for a qualification - you can in many jobs, as long as you demonstrate that you are able to do the work. I have been working with students from disadvantaged backgrounds for a number of year, I would argue that that may make me better equipped than some newly qualified teachers to work in community schools and VECs, however I cannot be considered. I have no issue with being rejected because someone just not think my skills are good enough to do a job, but it is frustrating when it comes down to whether or not you have the particular piece of paper as opposed to whether you can do the job.

rainbowtrout

jessaj wrote: »

I just find it frustrating that I cannot substitute relevant experience for a qualification - you can in many jobs, as long as you demonstrate that you are able to do the work. I have been working with students from disadvantaged backgrounds for a number of year, I would argue that that may make me better equipped than some newly qualified teachers to work in community schools and VECs, however I cannot be considered. I have no issue with being rejected because someone just not think my skills are good enough to do a job, but it is frustrating when it comes down to whether or not you have the particular piece of paper as opposed to whether you can do the job.

Teaching at second level is a whole different ball game to teaching at third level.

Would you be happy to go to a doctor who wasn't qualified in a specific area just because they reckoned they were good at it?

Plenty of people out there can't get teaching work who can do the job AND have the piece of paper.

PaulieBoy

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Teaching at second level is a whole different ball game to teaching at third level.

Would you be happy to go to a doctor who wasn't qualified in a specific area just because they reckoned they were good at it?

Plenty of people out there can't get teaching work who can do the job AND have the piece of paper.

I was thought by a lot of people who had "the piece of paper", they were useless as teachers. The OP has experience and while lacks " the piece of paper" is most likely a far better teacher than many so called teachers. They have invaluable experience that is being lost, replaced by a new generation of clueless "qualified" teachers. They lack industry experience, something that the further education sector is supposed to offer, but will find that near impossible as time goes on. As an example DIT are having problems getting quality chefs. How many chefs do you know that run top class restaurants and have teaching qualifications? Exactly, none! So DIT are having to hire people who have "the piece of paper" but who would not have a clue about the business they are "teaching".

A piece of paper does not make you a teacher. Lots of hard done by students can attest to that.

rainbowtrout

PaulieBoy wrote: »

I was thought by a lot of people who had "the piece of paper", they were useless as teachers. The OP has experience and while lacks " the piece of paper" is most likely a far better teacher than many so called teachers. They have invaluable experience that is being lost, replaced by a new generation of clueless "qualified" teachers. They lack industry experience, something that the further education sector is supposed to offer, but will find that near impossible as time goes on. As an example DIT are having problems getting quality chefs. How many chefs do you know that run top class restaurants and have teaching qualifications? Exactly, none! So DIT are having to hire people who have "the piece of paper" but who would not have a clue about the business they are "teaching".

A piece of paper does not make you a teacher. Lots of hard done by students can attest to that.

Did you even read the OP? She wants to teach in a secondary school