Connacht Team..If loan system in place for irish only players

liam12989

1)Wilkinson
2)Cronin
3)Andress
4)Donnacha Ryan
5)Toner
6)Best
7)Pollock
8)Wilson
9)Strings
10)Keatley
11)Dave Kearney
12)Downey
13)Barry Murphy
14)Carr
15)Jones

thomond2006

I think a Connacht loan system is a great idea, although on the flip side it means Connacht can't develop a side if it is full of players who are gone within 1/2 seasons.

Why loan Stringer out? The Munster/Irish management know what he offers, would be a great signing for Connacht but I'd say he is happy enough as second choice at Munster tbh. Paul O'Donohoe would have been my choice, although he seems to be 2nd choice scrum half at Leinster at the moment. I'd stick with Murphy for now.

Downey is first choice centre at Northampton, it was a great move for him and he is getting lots of game time. The same with Roger Wilson and Neil Best. They definitely don't need to be loaned out.

Isn't John Andress first choice TH at Harlequins?

David Pollock has been injured, he'll probably get his first team place back soon enough.

Barry Murphy is an interesting choice, poor b@stard is very injury prone though.
I'd prefer to see Macken go there. He's very young but ML and ACC experience would be great for him. It's unlikely he will break into the Leinster set up before the RWC, so a year at Connacht would do wonders for his game.

A loan system should be used for players who are not getting game time like Toner, Kearney Jnr, O'Mahony especially who isn't near the Munster side yet is really talented.

I would like:

Wilkinson
Cronin
Hagan / Archer
D Ryan
Toner
O'Donnell
O'Mahony (JOC is still young also)
Muldoon
Murphy
Keatley
D Kearney
Whitten (seems to have fallen off the radar at Ulster)
Macken
Carr
J Smith / Conway

phog

I'm not sure of how best Connacht Rugby can be served/developed but a loan system wont work, especially with some of the players listed in the OP.

The last thing Connacht needs is a loan of a player that could be called away from them to replace an injured player in their home province. Also, can players swap from one province to another mid-tournament? If not then I cant see the other 3 provinces agreeing to a loan system. Each of them need their full squad to cover resting international players, suspensions and cover injuries.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

I'm not sure of how best Connacht Rugby can be served/developed but a loan system wont work, especially with some of the players listed in the OP.

The last thing Connacht needs is a loan of a player that could be called away from them to replace an injured player in their home province. Also, can players swap from one province to another mid-tournament? If not then I cant see the other 3 provinces agreeing to a loan system. Each of them need their full squad to cover resting international players, suspensions and cover injuries.

Good point.

Amazotheamazing

It's very hard to know how to work any loan system with Connacht. Any ambitious player will always wonder if his "home" province will actually want him back. For example, does anyone really think Carr or Keatley will play for Leinster in the foreseeable future? Or F. Murphy or Matthews for Munster? Probably not. Of all the players currently with Connacht, only Cronin is likely to go "home" and he could as easily be signed by Leinster considering the depth Munster have at hooker. The very top strata of talented young players will always be slow to move to connacht. After that you have to work with who would move and who would be good enough to improve Connacht. Did it do them any good signing the limited Keiran Campbell for example?

I'd like to see a mixture of old heads and hard working youngsters moved to Connacht. Mick O'Driscoll would be a great sort of signing, would give 100%, would help bring through younger players and would provide leadership. Might be hard to sell it to the older players I guess, but there's bound to be a way. In terms of younger players, maybe someone like Dufficy from Clontarf, Deasy and Barnes from Munster etc.

wixfjord

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's very hard to know how to work any loan system with Connacht. Any ambitious player will always wonder if his "home" province will actually want him back. For example, does anyone really think Carr or Keatley will play for Leinster in the foreseeable future? Or F. Murphy or Matthews for Munster? Probably not. Of all the players currently with Connacht, only Cronin is likely to go "home" and he could as easily be signed by Leinster considering the depth Munster have at hooker. The very top strata of talented young players will always be slow to move to connacht. After that you have to work with who would move and who would be good enough to improve Connacht. Did it do them any good signing the limited Keiran Campbell for example?

I'd like to see a mixture of old heads and hard working youngsters moved to Connacht. Mick O'Driscoll would be a great sort of signing, would give 100%, would help bring through younger players and would provide leadership. Might be hard to sell it to the older players I guess, but there's bound to be a way. In terms of younger players, maybe someone like Dufficy from Clontarf, Deasy and Barnes from Munster etc.

Hopefully Carr will return to Leinster at some stage, would love to see what he could do with a better back line. Keatly could also return when Berne leaves, would be a good deputy for Sexton, but he could go to England if he has opportunities.

I dont really agree with the loan system, too many flaws imo, and doesnt really develop Connacht rugby.

Amazotheamazing

wixfjord wrote: »

Hopefully Carr will return to Leinster at some stage, would love to see what he could do with a better back line. Keatly could also return when Berne leaves, would be a good deputy for Sexton, but he could go to England if he has opportunities.

I dont really agree with the loan system, too many flaws imo, and doesnt really develop Connacht rugby.

If Keatley returns, it means both McKinley and Madigan have failed to come through to any level with Leinster, one of them will make it, imo, probably McKinley. Keatley is too close in age to Sexton to return and sit on the bench, course the age argument could be used to say both McKinley and Madigan should leave Leinster. Like i've said here before, I'd love to (and expect to) see Keatley move to Munster.

There's no space for Carr at leinster. Even if leinster were to stop producing backs in the morning, they'd still have Fitz, Kearney, Horgan, Dave Kearney, Keating, Macken, and a few others who I can't remember coming through. He might move to the GP, can't see much space for him in any of the other provinces either.

In reality, top tier players will not move to Connacht unless their immediate competiton is slightly older and ahead of them at home ie, Keatley v. Sexton, Cronin v. Fogarty. I think there's talent in the AIL that is good enough to play for Connacht, Dufficy in Clontarf for example.

liam12989

It would work if you had only irish players playing for connacht
try and get some of players in premiership back to ireland.
cause connacht isnt wokring at min so it needs a change big time

anonymous_joe

liam12989 wrote: »

1)Wilkinson
2)Cronin
3)Andress
4)Donnacha Ryan
5)Toner
6)Best
7)Pollock
8)Wilson
9)Strings
10)Keatley
11)Dave Kearney
12)Downey
13)Barry Murphy
14)Carr
15)Jones

Why would Downey Best and Wilson leave Saints?

The problem with that team is that it's a first team. A lot of those players would never be allowed leave their club, because you need a squad.

Stronger, Ryan, Pollock, Toner and possibly Murphy would all be too important as back ups to be allowed leave their provincial sides.

Amazotheamazing

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Why would Downey Best and Wilson leave Saints?

The problem with that team is that it's a first team. A lot of those players would never be allowed leave their club, because you need a squad.

Stronger, Ryan, Pollock, Toner and possibly Murphy would all be too important as back ups to be allowed leave their provincial sides.

Pollock is too serious a talent for Ulster to lose anyway, best young 7 in Ireland, imo.

Ryan is a strange one, guys like Foley and Nagle are coming through in Munster and Ryan is the wrong age to overtake POC and DOC. Stringer would be a great old pro for Connacht but won't be allowed go until Duncan Williams has shown he can stay fit or Murray gets a bit more experience. Even then, stringer would probably only go if it was some sort of "backs coach cum player" deal.

Very hard to see anyone who's regularly getting games in either the ML or GP going to Connacht.

anonymous_joe

Exactly. They're not an attractive team to play for.

Amazotheamazing

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Exactly. They're not an attractive team to play for.

Depends who you are. If you're an amateur in the AIL, or a young guy about to be let go from one of the bigger provinces, then they are a pretty attractive team, imo. However, there needs to be more logic in the players they sign. Connacht would be much better off looking for guys like MOD and Dowling then signing rejects from the Southern Hemisphere.

Dowling is an good example of the type of player I'm talking about. Didn't make Leinster underage teams, moved to UL and forced his way into a Munster contract due to his work in the AIL. Same with Johne Murphy in Leicester, couldn't make the underage grade in Leinster but got a chance in Leicester and worked massively hard to get a contract. Connacht should hire a coach who knows the AIL inside out and give chances to guys like Murphy and Dowling, guys who want to succeed no matter what.

siltirocker

Amazo i must say i strongly disagree with your estimations of Fionn Carr and Sean Cronin. And i am truly shocked that you believe Denis Fogarty a better player (even if it is atm) to Cronin when you suggested the scenario atm of him returning to Munster, he is the no.1, albeit available hooker in the country without doubt!

Doubt i have the time atm to give a fair post on the subject tbh.

Some great posts but i do question the OP's knowledge of the Connacht team, why sign Toner if you have Browne (both developing fine with their respective provinces), why take Andress when Hagan is there, no John Muldoon?, etc.

anonymous_joe

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Depends who you are. If you're an amateur in the AIL, or a young guy about to be let go from one of the bigger provinces, then they are a pretty attractive team, imo. However, there needs to be more logic in the players they sign. Connacht would be much better off looking for guys like MOD and Dowling then signing rejects from the Southern Hemisphere.

Dowling is an good example of the type of player I'm talking about. Didn't make Leinster underage teams, moved to UL and forced his way into a Munster contract due to his work in the AIL. Same with Johne Murphy in Leicester, couldn't make the underage grade in Leinster but got a chance in Leicester and worked massively hard to get a contract. Connacht should hire a coach who knows the AIL inside out and give chances to guys like Murphy and Dowling, guys who want to succeed no matter what.

Ah I know what you mean about signing AIL boys, etc. I was more talking of established pros. Certainly they'd do well to sign lads up from AIL teams.

Amazotheamazing

siltirocker wrote: »

Amazo i must say i strongly disagree with your estimations of Fionn Carr and Sean Cronin. And i am truly shocked that you believe Denis Fogarty a better player (even if it is atm) to Cronin when you suggested the scenario atm of him returning to Munster, he is the no.1, albeit available hooker in the country without doubt!

Doubt i have the time atm to give a fair post on the subject tbh.

Some great posts but i do question the OP's knowledge of the Connacht team, why sign Toner if you have Browne (both developing fine with their respective provinces), why take Andress when Hagan is there, no John Muldoon?, etc.

I agree about Cronin, but I can see why he moved, rightly or wrongly Munster were giving games to Fogs ahead of him. I was saying he moved because the guy ahead of him was getting games and close enough in age to be around for a while. Supposedly Cronin is pretty keen to move back to Munster, let's hope it happens. There is simply no excuse for Fogs to still be a weak thrower.

Course, if Cronin did move home, Varley would be a good signing for Connacht. It's a pity he didn't decide to go pro earlier in his career (he was class for Garryowen and then headed off around the world iirc) because he's a seriously talented guy.

Goodluck2me

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

If Keatley returns, it means both McKinley and Madigan have failed to come through to any level with Leinster, one of them will make it, imo, probably McKinley. Keatley is too close in age to Sexton to return and sit on the bench, course the age argument could be used to say both McKinley and Madigan should leave Leinster. Like i've said here before, I'd love to (and expect to) see Keatley move to Munster.

There's no space for Carr at leinster. Even if leinster were to stop producing backs in the morning, they'd still have Fitz, Kearney, Horgan, Dave Kearney, Keating, Macken, and a few others who I can't remember coming through. He might move to the GP, can't see much space for him in any of the other provinces either.

In reality, top tier players will not move to Connacht unless their immediate competiton is slightly older and ahead of them at home ie, Keatley v. Sexton, Cronin v. Fogarty. I think there's talent in the AIL that is good enough to play for Connacht, Dufficy in Clontarf for example.

Horgan is getting older and wont be around forever, Carr will have 2 years ML experience at the end of this year, so why wouldnt you take him over inexperienced D Kearney, Keating Macken etc? Dempsey sure to retire soon as well. Be better for the aforementioned younger player to do what Carr did and go to Connacht and gain some experience first then come back.

Dave Joyce

Some great posts but i do question the OP's knowledge of the Connacht team

Agree.

This forum makes me wonder sometimes as guys from outside Connacht occasionaly speculate about us doing better and how could things be improved and yet in this thread, they are hoping some of our better players shag off back to their original (full strenght squads!) province. I wonder how sincere their wishing Connacht success really is.

I think the more telling question is why the Connacht Branch won't look into bringing some of the more promising local talent into the Academy, developing them instead of continually signing foreign journeymen.

chupacabra

thomond2006 wrote: »

Wilkinson
Cronin
Hagan / Archer
D Ryan
Toner
O'Donnell
O'Mahony (JOC is still young also)
Muldoon
Murphy
Keatley
D Kearney
Whitten (seems to have fallen off the radar at Ulster)
Macken
Carr
J Smith / Conway

Whitten fallen off the radar? He is playing week in week out at Magners and Heineken level for Ulster, far from fallen off the radar.

irishbucsfan

chupacabra wrote: »

Whitten fallen off the radar? He is playing week in week out at Magners and Heineken level for Ulster, far from fallen off the radar.

Agreed, I thought he's been doing very well. For me he's a better prospect than Cave at the moment but I don't think he'll ever be a great 12

GymJim

thomond2006 wrote: »

Whitten (seems to have fallen off the radar at Ulster)

How so? Been playing almost every week in the ML and is at least on the bench in all HEC games. Hardly fallen off the radar at 22 to be fair.

thomond2006

GymJim wrote: »

How so? Been playing almost every week in the ML and is at least on the bench in all HEC games. Hardly fallen off the radar at 22 to be fair.

Has he?

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/8734.php?player=62921&includeref=dynamic

You're right.

chupacabra

Yeah, one of the biggest prospects at center in the country imo, better than Cave and Trimble in his position. He is a better 13 than a 12 tho, i would love to see him play alongside Wallace a few times.

Amazotheamazing

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Agree.

This forum makes me wonder sometimes as guys from outside Connacht occasionaly speculate about us doing better and how could things be improved and yet in this thread, they are hoping some of our better players shag off back to their original (full strenght squads!) province. I wonder how sincere their wishing Connacht success really is.

Only natural to want to see the best players at the province you support. i want Connacht to be successful, but I'm not willing to trade Munster's success for that to happen. I'm happy to see players loaned and move there if there's a surplus but I wouldn't want Connacht coming in and bidding for players that are vital parts of Munster's squad. Unfortunately for a Connacht fan, an ambitious player will always want to move to a more established club. You think Keatley will spend a decade playing in the Sportsground if a real top club comes after him? Not likely.

Dave Joyce

You think Keatley will spend a decade playing in the Sportsground if a real top club comes after him? Not likely.

No AND I wouldn't expect him too. I delighted (like a lot of Connacht fans) to see for example Paul Warwick having such a successful time in Munster after been here. Of course I'm disappointed that we couldn't keep him here but how are we to compete with what Munster can offer him.

Besides you're kinda missing my point, apart from the fact that Connacht are a looonnnng way off been able to BID for a successful Munster player. I'm sick to the teeth of posters offering us success and "the loan" of their not quite up to it at the moment players but if they show a bit of potential, feck off and get him back here so he sit on the bench in case we need him. Its not all that long ago Connacht would give ANY of the other provinces a go during Interpro's and we've been left to be "grateful" for even having a squad ffs!!!

bamboozle

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Pollock is too serious a talent for Ulster to lose anyway, best young 7 in Ireland, imo.

Ryan is a strange one, guys like Foley and Nagle are coming through in Munster and Ryan is the wrong age to overtake POC and DOC. Stringer would be a great old pro for Connacht but won't be allowed go until Duncan Williams has shown he can stay fit or Murray gets a bit more experience. Even then, stringer would probably only go if it was some sort of "backs coach cum player" deal.

Very hard to see anyone who's regularly getting games in either the ML or GP going to Connacht.

Ryan seems to be groomed as a 6 at Munster, he's fast and agressive enough, who are those lads Foley and Nagle?

would Fionn Carr do a job at Munster i wonder?

bamboozle

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I agree about Cronin, but I can see why he moved, rightly or wrongly Munster were giving games to Fogs ahead of him. I was saying he moved because the guy ahead of him was getting games and close enough in age to be around for a while. Supposedly Cronin is pretty keen to move back to Munster, let's hope it happens. There is simply no excuse for Fogs to still be a weak thrower.

Course, if Cronin did move home, Varley would be a good signing for Connacht. It's a pity he didn't decide to go pro earlier in his career (he was class for Garryowen and then headed off around the world iirc) because he's a seriously talented guy.

I'd be very suprised if Cronin didnt move back to Munster this summer, agree that Varley is an excellent hooker, i'd start him anyday ahead of younger Fogarty any day cause Fogarty's lineout is hopeless, he makes Jackman's throwing seem adequate! in saying that there's no denying Fogarty is excellent around the park.

thomond2006

I'm pretty sure both Carr and Keatley are out of contract at the end of season, they both signed one year deals last year. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

If Leinster got rid of Berne and Keatley went back and became second choice behind Sexton, it would be a good move for him.

If Carr went back to Leinster, he wouldn't get near the team.

I don't how long Cronin is contracted to Connacht for, but I don't think he would move back to Munster yet anyway. Flannery has a few years left and Fogarty and Varley are decent hookers.

CowboyTed

I would as a general rule have only Irish players in Connaght. I don't mind an experienced foreigner coming in specialist position when there is no real alternative in the Irish camp.

I think the identity Connaght could look to is a kind of Academy where few old pros mix with younger players. Winning should not be the be all and end all (but it is a great help). All Irish fans could look at Connaght in much the way you look at the churchhill cup. If they could grab that 10 of these guys could be on the Irish team in 5-6 years time it could be great for Connaght rugby.

Interest in the team could could go up as kind of my second favorite team scenario. Like watching the reserves for another team..

And yes the swap arrangement should be both ways at occasions. I would think that Munster wouldn't mind having Muldoon while Leamy is injured(Swap for Strings). It was great to see MacFadden and Jones do so well in the Churchill but there was feeling would these guys have been this good for Connaght for couple seasons before this.

Coaching in Connaght would also have to be second to none. It quite good at the moment but players would have to feel they are on a special path when moving to Connaght rather than the feeling of being in a forgotten waste land.

Can this be done? Hard to know. With the compulsory resting of players(a good thing, IMHO), suspensions and injuries the Munsters of this world want a a massive highly skilled panel to call on.

In the end Connaght could be very good to Irish rugby if they can get it right.

Diom

Whoever piped up with the sentiment of having a AIL knowledgeable coach at Connacht is spot on. As for the OPs original post it is nonsense. We certainly do not need younger Kearney, Toner or Pollock.

I'd rather that Connacht received extra funding to provide a proper full size academy. It's not an accident that Connacht are as good as the rest of the Irish provinces at underage level (albeit a smaller player pool). With the correct resources we could bring those players on.
Leinster have an abundance of player resources namely because of their excellent academy setup, and Munster and Ulster are playing catch up. Connacht barely have the funding to run their one main team, nevermind trying to compete in player development outside of that as well.

thomond2006

CowboyTed wrote: »

I would as a general rule have only Irish players in Connaght. I don't mind an experienced foreigner coming in specialist position when there is no real alternative in the Irish camp.

Completely agree.

thehighground

Diom wrote: »

Leinster have an abundance of player resources namely because of their excellent academy setup, and Munster and Ulster are playing catch up. Connacht barely have the funding to run their one main team, nevermind trying to compete in player development outside of that as well.

Surely that has something to do with the population of Leinster (2.25 million) being double that of Munster (1.2 million) or more than 4 times of Connacht at 0.5 million?

From what I hear, both Munster & Ulster have excellent academies (Ulster seem to be churning them out at the moment just as much as Leinster). It can be difficult though, to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!


Otherwise, it is worth bearing in mind that players like Mal, Girvan Dempsey etc. may not fancy moving west for a year or two, particularly if they have young families, school, wives/partners with jobs etc. to think of.

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

Surely that has something to do with the population of Leinster (2.25 million) being double that of Munster (1.2 million) or more than 4 times of Connacht at 0.5 million?

Playing number wise Ulster are ahead of Leinster so that doesn't make sense.

irishbucsfan

Size=everything wrote: »

Playing number wise Ulster are ahead of Leinster so that doesn't make sense.

It does make sense when you look at the fact that the two highest populated provinces (in terms of rugby-playing) are the two most succesful academies at the moment.

For example, if Ulster had all of the players they'd produced recently they could be the best team in the country at the moment:

1. Best/Court
2. Best
3. Botha
4. O'Donoghue
5. Caldwell
6. Best
7. Pollock/Wilson/Faloon
8. Henry/Wilson
9. Boss
10. Humphries
11. Danielli
12. Wallace
13. Trimble
14. Bowe
15. Schif/Smith

I'm not an Ulster fan, or from Ulster so that might even be missing a few players, I don't know.

It would be a highly competitive team, you'd have to imagine they'd be able to spend a bit of money on a 2nd row as well (their one real weakness). Ulster have been let down by poor management over the past few seasons and have wasted some incredible talent.

If you look at the academies, Leinster and Ulster show the strongest prospective teams all the time, followed by Munster and then Connacht (who it seems find it hard just to fill the academy).

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

Surely that has something to do with the population of Leinster (2.25 million) being double that of Munster (1.2 million) or more than 4 times of Connacht at 0.5 million?

From what I hear, both Munster & Ulster have excellent academies (Ulster seem to be churning them out at the moment just as much as Leinster). It can be difficult though, to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!


Otherwise, it is worth bearing in mind that players like Mal, Girvan Dempsey etc. may not fancy moving west for a year or two, particularly if they have young families, school, wives/partners with jobs etc. to think of.

You've got it in one.

The only time you'll ever see an area produce more talent than it should is when it's noticeably richer than an average area and invests a lot into sports. Ireland, Holland, Norway, etc, i.e. rich Western European countries are the best example of this. Even if Connacht and Leinster spend the same amount on youth, Leinster's will be better.

Size=everything wrote: »

Playing number wise Ulster are ahead of Leinster so that doesn't make sense.

Yeah, but like, there's about 100 players more in Ulster out of however many thousand afaik. They're pretty much identical size wise.

Zzippy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Completely agree.

Ah yes. Its ok for Munster to sign expensive imports that will keep Irish players on the bench, but not for Connacht. Yet Connacht can't get their hands on young Irish players because Munster etc are hanging on to them but not giving them regular gametime - just keeping them on the books in case of injuries. :rolleyes:

Make up your mind, which is it? Cos Connacht are stuck between a rock and a hard place the way things are now...

thomond2006

Zzippy wrote: »

Ah yes. Its ok for Munster to sign expensive imports that will keep Irish players on the bench, but not for Connacht. Yet Connacht can't get their hands on young Irish players because Munster etc are hanging on to them but not giving them regular gametime - just keeping them on the books in case of injuries. :rolleyes:

Make up your mind, which is it? Cos Connacht are stuck between a rock and a hard place the way things are now...

Munster's imports: Howlett, Warwick, De Villiers, Mafi, Williams

Connacht's imports: Morris, Upton, Naoupu, Nikora, Nathan, Ta'auso

Munster's imports have improved the squad.

Only Upton or Morris are good enough to start for Connacht.

I have no problem with Connacht signing foreigners if Connacht's results improve and the young Irish players learn from them. e.g. Keith Earls would have learned a lot from a player like Rua Tipoki. Tipoki was also a great player for Munster.

Do you seriously think a lad like O'Halloran is going to learn anything useful from Troy Nathan? O'Halloran should be starting ahead of him ffs.

I agree that Connacht are between a rock and a hard place, but signing journeyman like Nikora or Nathan benefits nobody. The reponsibility for these signings lies with Michael Bradley and the Connacht Branch.

If Connacht reach the Heineken Cup (through another Irish province winning it the previous season), I guarantee many young players will flock to Connacht.

Zzippy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster's imports: Howlett, Warwick, De Villiers, Mafi, Williams

Connacht's imports: Morris, Upton, Naoupu, Nikora, Nathan, Ta'auso

Munster's imports have improved the squad.

Only Upton or Morris are good enough to start for Connacht.

I have no problem with Connacht signing foreigners if Connacht's results improve and the young Irish players learn from them. e.g. Keith Earls would have learned a lot from a player like Rua Tipoki. Tipoki was also a great player for Munster.

Do you seriously think a lad like O'Halloran is going to learn anything useful from Troy Nathan? O'Halloran should be starting ahead of him ffs.

I agree that Connacht are between a rock and a hard place, but signing journeyman like Nikora or Nathan benefits nobody. The reponsibility for these signings lies with Michael Bradley and the Connacht Branch.

If Connacht reach the Heineken Cup (through another Irish province winning it the previous season), I guarantee many young players will flock to Connacht.

I think you'll find Warwick was a Connacht import! Ye just poached him!

De Villiers has kept Keith Earls from playing 13 a few times already this season, thats not ideal for his development.

I'll reserve judgement on Naoupu, he had one bad game in Thomond after 2 excellent games vs Worcester.
I agree with you on the others. And don't forget Brett Wilkinson, now Irish qualified, was a Connacht import too. Also Mike McCarthy, definitely good enough to play for Connacht.

My point is you can't expect to limit Connacht to Irish signings only if your province won't allow us to sign any of your young players. And we can't sign quality foreign players because we don't have the budget. So we get a few journeymen, and a couple of lemons amongst them. That is Bradley's fault alright, but thankfully he's off soon, and hopefully Elwood has learned a few lessons about signings...

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

So we get a few journeymen, and a couple of lemons amongst them. That is Bradley's fault alright, but thankfully he's off soon, and hopefully Elwood has learned a few lessons about signings...

I think it's really a pot luck thing. Every coach signs poor players at some stage...

For every Nacewa there's a Knoop. for every Tipoki there's a Williams. for every Botha there's a (dunno an Ulster failure off the top of my head...) For every Wilkinson there's a Nathan. For every Ronaldo theres a Forlan, for every Torres there's an Insua, for every Drogba there's a Del Horno, and so on...

Connacht have done well considering they don't have nearly the same pulling power of the other provinces.



On that topic, how is Ofisa getting on? I was really impressed with what I saw of him this season... and now he's on the bench...

siltirocker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think it's really a pot luck thing. Every coach signs poor players at some stage...

For every Nacewa there's a Knoop. for every Tipoki there's a Williams. for every Botha there's a (dunno an Ulster failure off the top of my head...) For every Wilkinson there's a Nathan. For every Ronaldo theres a Forlan, for every Torres there's an Insua, for every Drogba there's a Del Horno, and so on...

Connacht have done well considering they don't have nearly the same pulling power of the other provinces.



On that topic, how is Ofisa getting on? I was really impressed with what I saw of him this season... and now he's on the bench...

Ah Ray is always solid as a rock. That's more getting JOC and the new dude needing some more game time methinks.

irishbucsfan

siltirocker wrote: »

Ah Ray is always solid as a rock. That's more getting JOC and the new dude needing some more game time methinks.

Thats good to hear, to me he's put in some of the best performances by any player in a provincial 7 jersey this season. As long as he's not getting homesick or anything.

In that case you can put him down as another succesful foreign signing.

On the original topic on the loan system and Connacht, initially I wouldn't have been for it but now I feel its probably the best option available to all parties as long as it is in some way constrained.

For example I think 2/3 should be the maximum number who could be loaned and that it would be a one season arrangement, pending review half was through the season where the player could return if desired by the side loaning him and obviously what he'd think himself. I'd hope this would be a short term situation and if players get some experience of playing pro rugby and see the benefits they might move west on longer deals and that it might snowball a bit from there.

A partnership with the colleges in this case might be fruitful in trying to link up perhaps the work of a talented player with their college work in Dublin if that was the case.Really its up to the Connacht Branch to put together an attractive package and bring that to the players.

For example take O'Malley in Leinster who is a very talented player but who is a bit off the radar, but with a few injuries and international breaks etc. may come into contention.He'd be a serious addition to the Connacht backline. Connacht could pay the 80/90% of the wages and he could be excluded from paying against Leinster.

In relation to foreign signings its a fair point that all sides get their bad % and Connacht are usually trying to get players for next to nothing which is always going to be difficult but there is no doubt Connacht have had far more bad foreign signings than other teams.

I don't understand that if we are going to shop foreign that we don't look towards players playing in Europe where its possible to see the player in action first hand.There is no doubt Connacht have been sold down the river by the agents collection of highlights for a number of sh players. Also there have been some foreign signings for Connacht recently who are costing us the going rate but who are nowhere near good enough.

Diom

thehighground wrote: »

Surely that has something to do with the population of Leinster (2.25 million) being double that of Munster (1.2 million) or more than 4 times of Connacht at 0.5 million?

From what I hear, both Munster & Ulster have excellent academies (Ulster seem to be churning them out at the moment just as much as Leinster). It can be difficult though, to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!


Otherwise, it is worth bearing in mind that players like Mal, Girvan Dempsey etc. may not fancy moving west for a year or two, particularly if they have young families, school, wives/partners with jobs etc. to think of.

Of course there will always be an advantage in having larger playing numbers, but that really should be secondary. Look at Ireland v England at national level. The reason we are beating them recently is because of our player management and care. They are both richer and have a larger player base than us.
The point I made was that Connacht are very competitive in under-age level. IF you want to improve Connacht rugby then more investment is needed to bolster Connacht's academy. I'm not saying that this should come at the expense of Leinster academy or Ulster or Munster academies, but it is definitely the next logical step. The hard work being done at schools and clubs in Connacht is being wasted because there is not enough room in the Connacht academies for more than a handful of players.

Four-Percent

Diom wrote: »

I'd rather that Connacht received extra funding to provide a proper full size academy. It's not an accident that Connacht are as good as the rest of the Irish provinces at underage level (albeit a smaller player pool). With the correct resources we could bring those players on.

Exactly, why should money be poured into developing a loan system when it would be better spent creating a proper quality youth system?

CowboyTed

Connaght needs an identiy first reall. What is it?
4th Province fighting on half the budget
A province to nurture new talend

What are the targets for Connaght? Is it Heineken or bust? Is it to develop the Irish side for 5-6 years in advance using Old pro back boned with some of the best underage talent.

Was it better for the likes of MacFadden to stay in Dublin learning of BOD or was it better to give him more game time against BOD...

siltirocker

One thing that gets to me, is that the game time isn't being given to young players i.e Griffen, O'Halloran, Wynne, Nolan and maybe not so much but also Andrew Browne.
So Connacht end up getting rid of these players at the age of 23/24/25 because they didn't fulfill their potiential (i.e Gannon, Riordan, Bracken (man was playing amateur in Galway, then snapped up by Dragons).
Christ Riordan, is on a short term development contract with Munster with loads of 18/19/20 year olds. The man was in (albeit extended) 6 nations squads about 2/3 years back for f*ck's sake!!!

I think management of post-school talent in Connacht, is appaling and i think this loan idea will put the nail in Connacht Rugby, not the team itself mind you that will remain as the Leinster/Munster mens' tryout team.

f1dan

Sorry to hijack this thread a bit but what happened to John O'Sullivan after he went to Munster from Connacht? He was one of Connacht's better players at the time and he seemed to just disappear.

thomond2006

f1dan wrote: »

Sorry to hijack this thread a bit but what happened to John O'Sullivan after he went to Munster from Connacht? He was one of Connacht's better players at the time and he seemed to just disappear.

He's playing Division 2 rugby with Agen in France at the moment.

Broke into the Munster HEC side at the beginning of last season, he played 7 away to Sale Sharks. Got injured and fell off the radar. Nick Williams was signed at that time too.

Released by Munster as he was surplus to requirements as Nick Williams and James Coughlan were ahead of him and Munster have many young backrowers around too (Tommy O'Donnell and Peter O'Mahony for example).

He was a solid player for Munster.

I would have thought a middle table GP or Top14 club would have picked him up though. Agen do have a good chance at promotion as far as I know so we may see him in Top14 next season.