Josef Schmidt says he's moving to Leinster.

danthefan

Who was it again saying the IRFU would be appointing Bradley?

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/ligue-celtique/2009-2010/schmi dt-3-ans-au-leinster_sto2167001/flashnews.shtml

Midi Olympique l'avait annoncé dès le mois dernier, l'entraîneur des trois-quarts clermontois, Josef Schmidt, a confirmé ce lundi qu'il allait quitter le club auvergnat à la fin de la saison pour rejoindre la province irlandaise du Leinster où il va s'engager pour trois ans.

A 42 ans, le Néo-Zélandais, qui était l'adjoint de Vern Cotter à Clermont depuis 2007, était le premier choix des champions d'Europe pour succéder à Mickaël Cheika.

"L'opportunité était énorme", a précisé l'intéressé. "C'est un nouveau challenge pour moi, et j'espère que je pourrai apporter quelque chose là-bas", a-t-il déclaré.

profitius

As Bradleys no 2.

ScrubsfanChris

Rough translation through google:

Midi Olympique announced last month as the coach of three-quarters Clermont, Josef Schmidt, confirmed Monday that he would leave the club Auvergne at the end of the season to join the Irish province of Leinster, where he will commit to three years.

At 42, the New Zealander, who was the Deputy Vern Cotter at Clermont in 2007, was the first choice of European champions to succeed Mickaël Cheika.

"The opportunity was enormous," said the person. "It'sa new challenge for me, and I hope I can bring something out there," he said.

achtungbarry

From RTE

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2009/1228/schmidtj.html

Clermont backs coach Josef Schmidt is to join Leinster before taking over from Michael Cheika at the end of this season, according to a news agency report.

Cheika has been with Leinster for five years and led them to Heineken Cup glory last season but his time with the province is now nearing an end.

Schmidt, a 42-year-old New Zealander with a reputation for innovative backs coaching, has been deputy coach to compatriot Vern Cotter at Clermont since leaving Super 14 side Auckland Blues in 2007.

News agency AFP, following French sports magazine L'Equipe, has said that Schmidt is the first choice to take over from Cheika at the end of the current season, which will climax in May with the Magners League Grand Final on 29 May and the Heineken Cup final a week earlier. Schmidt is reported to have signed a three-year-deal.

There had been speculation that current Connacht coach Michael Bradley would be brought into the Leinster set-up but that now seems unlikely.

Under Cotter and Schmidt, Clermont have been runners-up in the Top 14 in 2007, 2008 and 2009. The club has never won the Bouclier De Brennus - the top trophy in French rugby - but has been second on 10 occasions.

They are currently fourth in the Top 14 - with the best points difference in the league - and are also primed to emerge from a tough Heineken Cup pool that also involves the Ospreys and Leicester.

Schmidt, who will be taking over as head coach of a professional team for the first team, told AFP: 'It's an enormous opportunity. It's a new challenge for me and I hope that I can bring something to the team.'

Leinster's current group of assistant coaches includes defence coach Kurt McQuilken, backs coach Alan Gaffney, who also works with the Ireland squad, and forwards coach Jonno Gibbes.

Schmidt worked with Gibbes, also a New Zealander, in the Super 14 prior his departure for Europe and they are expected to form a new partnership.

Gaffney's departure after two years has already been flagged and, like Cheika, he will also be leaving Leinster at the end of this season.

Former Leinster and Ireland centre McQuilken's future is less certain. Leinster's defence has been key to their form over the last year but it is understood McQuilken may also move to a new position once the current campaign ends.

danthefan

And it's on the Leinster site now, Schmidt is the new head coach of Leinster.

chupacabra

This guy is going to be great for Leinster. He will get the absolute best out of the backs you have... which worries me :P

profitius

chupacabra wrote: »

This guy is going to be great for Leinster. He will get the absolute best out of the backs you have... which worries me :P

Jonno Gibbs is staying on. I think his role in Leinsters success has been underestimated.

chupacabra

profitius wrote: »

Jonno Gibbs is staying on. I think his role in Leinsters success has been underestimated.

Gibbes is the forwards coach.. what has that got to do with what i sad?

copacetic

danthefan wrote: »

And it's on the Leinster site now, Schmidt is the new head coach of Leinster.

yep, here:
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/4216.php

Leinster Rugby formally confirmed on Monday that Josef Schmidt, Assistant Coach to Clermont Auvergne ASM, will become Head Coach for season 2010/11 and has signed a three year deal...
Schmidt will take over from Michael Cheika, who had previously announced that he would not renew his contract after five highly successful years with the province.

Josef Schmidt, aged 44, has been backs coach in Clermont in combination with fellow New Zealander Vern Cotter and during his spell with the French outfit the club has reached three successive French Championship finals.

He previously coached the Auckland Blues in the Super 14 and Bay of Plenty to win the prized Ranfurly Shield. A former Assistant Coach to the New Zealand Schools team for four seasons, Josef is also a former School Headmaster.

In addition, Schmidt spent a year in Ireland as a player in the early 1990's when he assisted the Mullingar Club in Leinster.

*Leinster will announce the remainder of the new coaching team in the coming months.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

Who was it again saying the IRFU would be appointing Bradley?

It must really have got to you that someone dreamt up the idea that Bradley might get the top spot in Leinster, I think it was being said a bit of a joke.

I wonder will he get a No2 spot there though

PhatPiggins

The assistant coach at a club who cant win anything despite having the second biggest budget in the league and a ridiculous player pool to pick from. Similar story at with the Auckland Blues.

He does get the backs running nice plays but I'll hold of on judging his credentials as a head coach.

funky penguin

So long as he surrounds himself with the right staff I'll be happy.

anonymous_joe

I've no massive opinions on this, other than that if we can't keep Kurt we need a bleedin deadly defence coach.

shawpower

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I've no massive opinions on this, other than that if we can't keep Kurt we need a bleedin deadly defence coach.

Totally agree. While Gibbs might have been underestimated, I think Kurt is a huge part of our success. If he goes, it'll be a massive blow.

As for Schmidt, I'll wait and see. Interesting point about him not winning at Clermont with a big budget, but then again, he's not the head coach.

PhatPiggins

shawpower wrote: »

Totally agree. While Gibbs might have been underestimated, I think Kurt is a huge part of our success. If he goes, it'll be a massive blow.

As for Schmidt, I'll wait and see. Interesting point about him not winning at Clermont with a big budget, but then again, he's not the head coach.

And has no experience as a head coach so why take the risk?

Its taken Leinster a decade to shake off the cinderella tag and there are plenty of excellent head coachs out there that would jump at the chance.

anonymous_joe

shawpower wrote: »

Totally agree. While Gibbs might have been underestimated, I think Kurt is a huge part of our success. If he goes, it'll be a massive blow.

As for Schmidt, I'll wait and see. Interesting point about him not winning at Clermont with a big budget, but then again, he's not the head coach.

Well Jonno's staying isn't he? And he worked with Schmidt at the Blues too afaik.

PhatPiggins wrote: »

And has no experience as a head coach so why take the risk?

Its taken Leinster a decade to shake off the cinderella tag and there are plenty of excellent head coachs out there that would jump at the chance.

Cheika wasn't exactly experienced though, was he?

Amazotheamazing

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well Jonno's staying isn't he? And he worked with Schmidt at the Blues too afaik.


Cheika wasn't exactly experienced though, was he?

Cheikia wasn't all that successful either for his first few years, considering the squad Leinster have and their buying power. Indeed, iirc, it was gibbes and kurt coming on board that made a big difference (and I used to rate Brewer as a coach).

OldJay

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well Jonno's staying isn't he? And he worked with Schmidt at the Blues too afaik

Jonno Gibbes is a Waikato fella. Only coaching I'm aware of that he was involved in was when he went to Wales. If there was Kiwi coach he worked with, I'd say it would have been John Mitchell.

Bugnug

PhatPiggins wrote: »

The assistant coach at a club who cant win anything despite having the second biggest budget in the league and a ridiculous player pool to pick from. Similar story at with the Auckland Blues.

He does get the backs running nice plays but I'll hold of on judging his credentials as a head coach.

They have been to 3 successive French championship finals all the same. No mean feat considering the quality of the French league. Kurt McQuillan has mad all the difference with his defensive work on the backs. They are almost impenetrable. Is McQuillan staying? Would like to see Bradley get some role. The guy has huge potential but needs better material than connaught to work with.

anonymous_joe

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Cheikia wasn't all that successful either for his first few years, considering the squad Leinster have and their buying power. Indeed, iirc, it was gibbes and kurt coming on board that made a big difference (and I used to rate Brewer as a coach).

Well... Leinster were in a shambles when he arrived. Some nothing little coach had left them in a bit of a state.

Shows how much things can change.

Justind wrote: »

Jonno Gibbes is a Waikato fella. Only coaching I'm aware of that he was involved in was when he went to Wales. If there was Kiwi coach he worked with, I'd say it would have been John Mitchell.

Ah fair enough.

PhatPiggins

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well Jonno's staying isn't he? And he worked with Schmidt at the Blues too afaik.


Cheika wasn't exactly experienced though, was he?

Neither was Gary Ella!

My point is that Leinster are a top club and can pick and chose a lot more.

danthefan

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Neither was Gary Ella!

My point is that Leinster are a top club and can pick and chose a lot more.

Who could/should they have gone for? All the best coaches are in jobs already.

PhatPiggins

danthefan wrote: »

Who could/should they have gone for? All the best coaches are in jobs already.

Jake White and Ian McGeehan would be top of my list but I would have gone for the likes of Matt Williams or Eddie Jones before appointing an unknown.

danthefan

Irish Times article on our unknown new coach:

Article in the IT today:

LEINSTER NEW HEAD COACH: ' MR RUGBY” is a fairly heavy monicker for Josef Schmidt to be carrying into Leinster pre-season this summer.

Isa Nacewa is responsible for that comment, but Leinster’s own Mr Versatile is hardly of the loose-lipped variety. No, Nacewa firmly believes the development of his remarkable skills set is largely down to the influence of Schmidt (known simply as Joe).

Three seasons as Auckland Blues assistant coach to Peter Sloane, and then David Nucifora, led to a reunion with Vern Cotter – Starsky, to his Hutch – in central France. But after losing the last three Top-14 finals, Cotter and Schmidt will be happy enough to part company, for the second time, with the Bouclier de Brennus finally residing in the Clermont Auvergne trophy cabinet.

For all the excellent attacking rugby on display – granted, they have been in a few groups of death – European progress has stalled at the group stages.

But physically assaulting Paul O’Connell in Thomond Park is hardly the best way to progress now, is it? Clermont and Munster. The new Leinster coach will be familiar with the main rivals.

The promotion of Schmidt to his first head-coaching role, even of this magnitude, comes as no surprise to those who have worked with or even against him these past 10 years.

There are shades of Declan Kidney in his progress from school master and Napier Boys 1st XV coach, after life as a first-class winger with Manawatu (he was also a talented hoops player), to the Bay of Plenty 2004 campaign which brought the Cotter/Schmidt partnership to national prominence in the country where rugby means everything to so many people.

Bay of Plenty’s remarkable capture of the Ranfurly Shield saw the NZRFU quickly separate the natural talents of the pair, dropping them into the backrooms of Auckland and Canterbury.

Schmidt became the Blues’ backs coach, Cotter an assistant with the Crusaders. Switching to the Auckland Blues in 2004 meant coaching the likes of Nacewa, Munster’s adopted sons Doug Howlett and Rua Tipoki, along with Luke McAlister, Joe Rokocoko and even briefly the great Rupeni Caucaunibuca. Several more current All Blacks were guided by his hand as national schools coach or at the Blues.

And you can add Aurelin Rougerie, Julien Malzieu and Napolini Nalaga, among others, to that list of glittering strike-runners.

“He is the Mr Rugby, in my mind,” was Nacewa’s comment last October. “He taught me most of the stuff that I know about a backline in the three years I was with him at the Blues. He had a young mind into the game, and he really knows the game of rugby, the reasons why you do moves.”

Now 44, it is envisaged by Mick Dawson and the Leinster Branch that Schmidt will attain his peak as a coach over the coming three seasons.

He has significant shoes to fill.

Unless there is a dramatic collapse in the coming weeks, Michael Cheika’s five-year term in Dublin 4 will be deemed a resounding success. True, there was one particularly forgettable season, but in 2009 he shifted the balance of power from Thomond Park to the RDS Showgrounds, an unthinkable achievement after Munster swatted Leinster aside at Lansdowne Road en route to their first European crown in Cheika’s first year.

Speaking to people this week about the genial Joe Schmidt – who even sparked a decent Towns Cup run in Mullingar while on a typically nomadic Kiwi adventure during the 1990s – the consensus is Leinster have hired a man who can simplify this seemingly complex game.

Dawson and the Leinster “think tank” are certainly not concerned about taking a punt on an untested head coach considering the experience he has gained these past six years in the Super 14 and Top 14. It turns out the Auckland Blues head job was on the table last season, but family issues precluded a move home.

Still, the Schmidt/Cotter partnership is when most of the success has been garnered in his coaching career.

“Obviously, Vern was the driving force behind Joe coming over to Clermont,” says Clermont manager and Scot Neil McIlroy. “When Vern first came to us, Joe was unavailable, but Vern always wanted to bring his tried-and- trusted assistant over with him.

“So, when Joe came in here it was very much a good cop, bad cop sort of thing. Vern being the hard-nosed forwards coach, and farmer, etc, and Joe being the good cop backs coach. Obviously, he is an intelligent guy, school teacher by trade, and spends a lot of time on the analytical side of things and tactics; working on what we’re doing wrong and what the opposition are doing wrong.

“He is a good friend of mine and I’ll be sorry to see him go. They are a nice, well-balanced family that have settled well into Clermont life.”

The transition to Dublin life shouldn’t be too difficult for his wife, Kelly, and four children, especially considering the foundations already put in place by people like the Whitakers.

Outside of the unquestioned expertise on the training paddock with the three-quarters, man-management seems to be Schmidt’s strongest coaching trait, as McIlroy confirms.

“He has a very good reputation one-on-one with the players. He will often take a player to one side and have a chat with him. Or sit down with the video to show him what he is doing wrong.

“And remember, our squad has 10 different nationalities,” adds the former Borders prop. “Joe has been managing seasoned internationals, so the challenge of working with some of the high-profile players Leinster have got shouldn’t be a problem. He also manages to get his point across in French and English.”

The next conundrum for Leinster is the make-up of the backroom. Irish rugby has been guilty of foisting a coaching team onto a coach in the past. The English national team are still at it, and just look at their plight. Even those with a passing interest in the sport recognised the detrimental tension created by the Eddie O’Sullivan/Declan Kidney ticket in the national set-up and how the union almost lost Kidney to Wales with the offer of an undefined office job.

In less professional times Michael Bradley’s departure from Connacht could be neatly accommodated on the Schmidt coaching ticket.

But the Leinster chief executive is not going to put any barriers in front of the new appointment.

“In the next month we will be announcing a backroom team,” said Dawson, who added: “We will allow Joe to build up his own backroom team.”

Cheika is leaving, obviously, perhaps rugby for good; but he will surely reappear, maybe at the new Australian Super 15 franchise or even a French outfit. There must be plenty of offers.

Alan Gaffney let the cat out of the bag about this appointment in a recent TV3 interview a few weeks back, saying “Joe’s a backs coach in his own right” when he confirmed his own expertise would not be required next season. Gaffney’s future role with Ireland is still being discussed.

Kurt McQuilkin’s stock as a defensive coach has risen significantly after the brick walls Leinster erected at The Stoop and Croke Park. The former Lansdowne centre may be an Irish international and married to an Irish woman, but Kings County in New Zealand is home and may be his next port of call.

The future of forwards coach Jonno Gibbs looks the most interesting. Both New Zealand rugby men of high repute, Schmidt and Gibbs know each other so it would suit to keep on the former Waikato captain for continuity purposes at least.

Gibbs’ coaching reputation has also skyrocketed after last season, so contract negotiations continue.

So, the scene is set for the new Leinster era to maintain current standards after a successful recruitment process.

“Considering his technical and tactical knowledge, he is in his mid-forties and has worked at the top with European and New Zealand teams, it’s a good move for Leinster,” added McIlroy. “There is certainly no risk element in taking Joe.”

“There is always a leap of faith,” to quote a senior Leinster source, when opting for a new, young, foreign coach, but Cheika came with significantly less exposure to elite rugby in either hemisphere.

And that has worked out alright. The Leinster decision-makers have earned the public’s trust for the appointment of Mr Schmidt.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

Irish Times article on our unknown new coach:

Decent article, in one way I hope he is successful in another (Munster) I hope he isn't, but as in last year if Munster are out then I hope another Irish province can win either of the two tournaments.

padser

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Cheikia wasn't all that successful either for his first few years, considering the squad Leinster have and their buying power. Indeed, iirc, it was gibbes and kurt coming on board that made a big difference (and I used to rate Brewer as a coach).

I have to agree - Cheikia has an unbelievable squad at his disposal:

Of the 7 players nominated for world player of the year - he has two of them in what is essentially a club side - and bear in mind that last year when he won the HC most people would argue that Heaslip wasn't even the best back row forward on the team!

At the beginning of this year he couldn't find space in his team to accomodate Kearney (Lions full back and undoutably in the top 2 or 3 full backs in the world)

Also had a host of other Lions players (was it 7 in total - or half his team!!!!)

In Sexton, O Brien and Healy he has 3 of the 4 most exciting young Irish prospects (Earls being the fourth)

The strength in depth is just insane - Ross was on the premiership XV of the season last season - moves to Leinster and becomes the THIRD choice tighthead.

That squad as it currently is unbelievably strong when competeting in what are essentially club competitions (English and French submit club teams)

As it stands at the moment it would be difficult for a coach with any ability not to put out a very very strong team.

So the question is - were these players going to be that good anyway (some definitely were - e.g. BOD was pretty magical long before Cheikia arrived) or has Cheikia being there turned them into world class players. I would argue that if its the former, then the job Cheikia has done is average (1 HC and 1 magners league) or slightly below average given his resouces. If on the other hand it's the latter, well then it's not fair judge Cheikia based on the calibre of players he has and he has done an outstanding job and should also receive some credit for Ireland's grand slam etc.

Personally I think most of the players Cheikia manages were going to be excellent anyway -his coaching set up obviously has had some impact but overall he should have won more trophies given the resouces at his disposal.

danthefan

The reason Cheika has an unbelievable squad at his disposal is because he's built it himself. Leinster were a shambles when he took over and there are only a handful of players still there who were there when he took over (BOD, D'Arcy, Horgan, Dempsey, MOK, Heaslip?, Jackman?, can't think of any others though I'm sure I've forgotten someone). He has to get massive credit for building the current squad.

padser

danthefan wrote: »

The reason Cheika has an unbelievable squad at his disposal is because he's built it himself. Leinster were a shambles when he took over and there are only a handful of players still there who were there when he took over (BOD, D'Arcy, Horgan, Dempsey, MOK, Heaslip?, Jackman?, can't think of any others though I'm sure I've forgotten someone). He has to get massive credit for building the current squad.

Fair enough I guess - it all depends on whether or not you believe that Cheika should get credit for players who come through the acedemy (Fitz, Sexton, Kearney, Healy, O Brien etc). If you believe these guys are the players they are today due to Cheika - then the guy has done an incredible job and Leinster should move heaven and earth to make him stay. If however you believe that these players would have been excellent players anyway then its not fair to say that Cheika has 'built the squad himself' - he has been incredibly fortunate to inherit an academy that churned out an incredible amount of top class players.

PhatPiggins

padser wrote: »

Fair enough I guess - it all depends on whether or not you believe that Cheika should get credit for players who come through the acedemy (Fitz, Sexton, Kearney, Healy, O Brien etc). If you believe these guys are the players they are today due to Cheika - then the guy has done an incredible job and Leinster should move heaven and earth to make him stay. If however you believe that these players would have been excellent players anyway then its not fair to say that Cheika has 'built the squad himself' - he has been incredibly fortunate to inherit an academy that churned out an incredible amount of top class players.

If Leinster win nothing this season how will people judge Cheika's tenure?

Personally I'd say good but could have done better.

Podge_irl

padser wrote: »

Fair enough I guess - it all depends on whether or not you believe that Cheika should get credit for players who come through the acedemy (Fitz, Sexton, Kearney, Healy, O Brien etc). If you believe these guys are the players they are today due to Cheika - then the guy has done an incredible job and Leinster should move heaven and earth to make him stay. If however you believe that these players would have been excellent players anyway then its not fair to say that Cheika has 'built the squad himself' - he has been incredibly fortunate to inherit an academy that churned out an incredible amount of top class players.

What nonsense. You may as well say no coach has any impact on his team if the players are any good - which is obviously wrong. Only 8 players remain from when Cheika took over I believe - of course he built the current squad. And of course he's had an impact on the likes of Kearney and Fitz, to think otherwise beggars belief.

Leinster are a much, much better team now then when Cheika arrived. Whether or not they win anything this year that won't change.

smurphy29

Guys, it is madness to say that Cheika has not been outstanding for Leinster. You must remember that we are being spoilt in these current times, and suddenly only one Heineken Cup is deemed mediocre. Call me a pessimist, but I never dreamed Leinster would win a Heineken Cup until last season. It is an incredibly tough competition to win, so to do it even once is a fantastic achievement. Sure, Leinster had their share of disappointments in the years before the win, but we had our good days too.

Cheika has to be given credit for:

1. The emergence of a brilliant crop of players. He gave Heaslip, Kearney, Sexton, Healy and Fitzy their chances, and has groomed them into outstanding players. They are undoubtedly talented, but it doesn't happen without good coaching and givign them the right environment. The next crop (O'Brien, McLaughlin as well as several academy players) are on their way
2. The brilliant rugby Leinster played in the early days of his tenure. It was Cheiks who put Contepomi centre stage and built the team around his spellbinding, if mercurial, talents
3. Changing the team's mentality. Nobody could argue that Leinster are a spineless team any more. Cheika has brought leadership to a previously rudderless pack. Look at the eight that played Munster in '06 and look at it now. Bringing in the likes of Cullen, Jennings, Rocky and Hines have given us a steel that we never had before.
4. Brining the best out of our footsoldiers. Nobody had heard of Stan Wright when he arrived, now he's a cult hero. Dempsey was a man transformed under Cheika. Jackman was a journeyman reserve hooker, but ended up adding a couple of caps for Ireland during his best year at Leinster

Size=everything

PhatPiggins wrote: »

If Leinster win nothing this season how will people judge Cheika's tenure?

Personally I'd say good but could have done better.

Well put it this way.

Kidney in a 4 year tenure won the HC twice with (at the time) 10 of 15 Irish regular internationals.

Cheika in a 4 year tenure won the HC and the ML with for most of the time only 6 (contepomi for Argentina) regular internationals on the team.

It is only in the last 2 years you've had the likes of Heaslip, Kearney and Fitzgerald turning into international regulars. For a lot of Cheikas tenure he had only 6 international standard players to Munsters 10. Big Difference yet accomplishments very close to that of Kidneys.

anonymous_joe

PhatPiggins wrote: »

If Leinster win nothing this season how will people judge Cheika's tenure?

Personally I'd say good but could have done better.

Eh?

You need to divide Cheika's tenure into two phases - when he took over we were an utter shambles. That first phase was all about rebuilding our team, not about winning things. We actually overachieved in that period I reckon. That 06 run to the HC semi was astonishing given the mess we were.

After that, a ML one season, followed by a HC, that's successful. Very successful. If we get to the semis of both the ML and HC this year I'd be satisfied. The higher up you go, the tighter rugby gets after all.

wixfjord

PhatPiggins wrote: »

If Leinster win nothing this season how will people judge Cheika's tenure?

Personally I'd say good but could have done better.

I think people are missing what mr piggins said here. If (god forbid :P) Leinster win nothing this year then they could have done better.

However, he will still go down as Leinsters best and most successfull manager, for all the reasons posted above.

Im of the opinion that Cheika has without doubt learned an awful lot from mistakes over his tenure. The decision to persist with conters at oh for so long was wrong imo. However, he has been proven to be a shrewd and good manager and a proud Leinsterman who understands our rivalry, something some of his predecessors were lacking. Also from his interviews, he is not done yet!

I will always remember him after the H Cup. When the team were celebrating he was going around clapping the fans.

thomond2006

Is Cheika a cert for the Melbourne Rebels head coach position?

danthefan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Cheika a cert for the Melbourne Rebels head coach position?

He's saying he hasn't been in contact with them over the job.


Edit - and if Leinster don't win something this year then Cheika's tenure could be summed up by "good but could have done better", Leinster are clearly good enough to win silverware this season.

PhatPiggins

danthefan wrote: »

He's saying he hasn't been in contact with them over the job.


Edit - and if Leinster don't win something this year then Cheika's tenure could be summed up by "good but could have done better", Leinster are clearly good enough to win silverware this season.

There was a bit in the Irish Times today about whether or not it was happening, cant find a link but the jist of it was that The Rebels(:o) were originally supposed to be private owned but its fallen through and ARFU are going to run it instead.

thehighground

I think Cheika did very well eventually - but he got plenty of support + an open chequebook. Joe, to say he inherited a shambles is a bit dramatic - take a look at the team that lost to Leicester in the Heineken Cup Quarter Finals in the 04-05 season (a lot of familiar names - including Contepomi playing at 12 which every other coach he has had seems to think is his best position) - but not Cheika! Getting a team that Toulouse had put 50+ on would be inheritating a shambles!

And size=everything - off the top of my head - you forgetting that Reggie Corrigan, Victor Costelloe, Emmet Byrne, Keith Gleeson, Guy Easterby, Will Green, Eric Miller ..... all of those played for Leinster in the '00s and had international caps.

thomond2006

Cheika for Connacht then. :pac:

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Cheika a cert for the Melbourne Rebels head coach position?

Apperantly the franchise isnt even going ahead,so I dont know where people get the opinion he is going to take it.

In fact I read an article that said even if it does go ahead he wants to stay in europe or leave rugby forever.He is an incredibly wealthy man,he has businesses all over the world (mainly hong kong-fashion) and doesnt need the money.

Maybe he will buy the super 14 franchise up for grabs?

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

I think Cheika did very well eventually - but he got plenty of support + an open chequebook. Joe, to say he inherited a shambles is a bit dramatic - take a look at the team that lost to Leicester in the Heineken Cup Quarter Finals in the 04-05 season (a lot of familiar names - including Contepomi playing at 12 which every other coach he has had seems to think is his best position) - but not Cheika! Getting a team that Toulouse had put 50+ on would be inheritating a shambles!

And size=everything - off the top of my head - you forgetting that Reggie Corrigan, Victor Costelloe, Emmet Byrne, Keith Gleeson, Guy Easterby, Will Green, Eric Miller ..... all of those played for Leinster in the '00s and had international caps.

Yeah, but BOD was thinking of leaving, the team was meant to be full of dissent, etc, and guys like Jennings, Cullen, Casey, etc had all flown the coop and not really been properly replaced.

There was the potential for an astonishingly good team tehre, but I don't think it ever really materialised...

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Yeah, but BOD was thinking of leaving, the team was meant to be full of dissent, etc, and guys like Jennings, Cullen, Casey, etc had all flown the coop and not really been properly replaced.

There was the potential for an astonishingly good team there, but I don't think it ever really materialised...

Bob Casey had left a good few years before that - presumably because he wasn't going to get ahead of Mal/Brennan/Cullen. Jennings was leaving because he couldn't get ahead of Keith Gleeson (and when he came back he still was behind him in the pecking order). BOD was negotating a new contract with the IRFU :rolleyes: Even DOC had a look at Stade Francais & Gloucester when he was negotiating his contract

Cullen (maybe Holwell as well) is probably the only one that left that Leinster would have liked to hold onto.

Leinster had the personnel there. Kidney had as many changes after winning the '06 Heineken Cup as Cheika had - compare the H Cup '06 final to the '08 final - quite a few changes there.

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

Bob Casey had left a good few years before that - presumably because he wasn't going to get ahead of Mal/Brennan/Cullen. Jennings was leaving because he couldn't get ahead of Keith Gleeson (and when he came back he still was behind him in the pecking order). BOD was negotating a new contract with the IRFU :rolleyes: Even DOC had a look at Stade Francais & Gloucester when he was negotiating his contract

Cullen (maybe Holwell as well) is probably the only one that left that Leinster would have liked to hold onto.

Leinster had the personnel there. Kidney had as many changes after winning the '06 Heineken Cup as Cheika had - compare the H Cup '06 final to the '08 final - quite a few changes there.

In fairness, Leinster had a good team, but weren't really doing anything with it. Similar to the likes of the Ospreys or Cardiff now in the ML.

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

Kidney had as many changes after winning the '06 Heineken Cup as Cheika had - compare the H Cup '06 final to the '08 final - quite a few changes there.

There are only 8 players left from the entire squad, never mind starting XV, that Cheika inherited - and of that at least one of them (Dempsey) doesn't really play anymore. In fact, the only mainstays from the team Cheika inherited are Horgan, D'Arcy and O'Driscoll and even Horgan isn't guaranteed his place when Fitz is around.

He's set up a great system in Leinster. Schmidt will be coming in with more experience than Cheiks had and with Leinster in much healthier condition. It's a risk, but not a ridiculous one.

bamboozle

i think Cheika came to Ireland with a poor opinion of the standard of players over here, he initially signed a fair few plodders from the southern hemisphere (mostly from Randwick) Adam Byrnes and Shaun Byrne's brother sring to mind.
He soon realised that in general the quality of player in Ireland was very good and he built a good squad around a core group of Leinster raised players.

my only gripe with him has been that over the years he wasnt overly supportive of the club sides unlike Magahan and Kidney who seemed quite willing to release players to play in the AIL.

wixfjord

bamboozle wrote: »

i think Cheika came to Ireland with a poor opinion of the standard of players over here, he initially signed a fair few plodders from the southern hemisphere (mostly from Randwick) Adam Byrnes and Shaun Byrne's brother sring to mind.
He soon realised that in general the quality of player in Ireland was very good and he built a good squad around a core group of Leinster raised players.

my only gripe with him has been that over the years he wasnt overly supportive of the club sides unlike Magahan and Kidney who seemed quite willing to release players to play in the AIL.

Michael Berne wasnt a bad back up at all. But Cheika has made some poor signings, I raise you Owen Finnigan!

PhatPiggins

wixfjord wrote: »

Michael Berne wasnt a bad back up at all. But Cheika has made some poor signings, I raise you Owen Finnigan!

I see your Owen finnigan and reraise you with the rarest of all creatures, the non scrummaging Argentinian : Juan Gomez

danthefan

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I see your Owen finnigan and reraise you with the rarest of all creatures, the non scrummaging Argentinian : Juan Gomez

Do you honestly want to go down this road? I could name a load of absolutely shocking signings made by Munster and Ulster too, it's not something exclusive to Cheika. At least with Gomez he didn't persist with him and showed him the door.

wixfjord

Very touchy arent we Dan! This has nothing to do with Munster or Ulster, Cheika has made some poor signings, but that doesnt make him a bad coach by anyones estimation.
Shows how much he has learned since the start aswell, Rocky Nacewa Simon Keogh Fogarty Reddan etc have been very good signings and strenghtened the team hugely.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

There are only 8 players left from the entire squad, never mind starting XV, that Cheika inherited - and of that at least one of them (Dempsey) doesn't really play anymore. In fact, the only mainstays from the team Cheika inherited are Horgan, D'Arcy and O'Driscoll and even Horgan isn't guaranteed his place when Fitz is around.

He's set up a great system in Leinster. Schmidt will be coming in with more experience than Cheiks had and with Leinster in much healthier condition. It's a risk, but not a ridiculous one.

We are talking about the players that Cheika inherited - there weren't that many changes to the team that beat Toulouse in Toulouse the following season (Green, Jowitt, Bryce Williams) - the rest were in the squad or thereabouts the previous season.

As for your point about Fitz (you trying to tell me that Fitz would start before O'Driscoll now if BOD was fit and not being rested?). I seem to remember D'Arcy was the Player of the 6Ns around then. And Horgan made the Lions in 2005.

I think Matt Williams has a big claim on turning Leinster into a professional outfit - and I don't think Schmidt has more experience than Cheika - Schmidt has never been head coach at a club before and the club he is at, despite all its talent and money, seem unable to get over the final hurdle. There is a good chance that Leinster might be the making of Schmidt rather than the other way around.

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

We are talking about the players that Cheika inherited - there weren't that many changes to the team that beat Toulouse in Toulouse the following season (Green, Jowitt, Bryce Williams) - the rest were in the squad or thereabouts the previous season.

As for your point about Fitz (you trying to tell me that Fitz would start before O'Driscoll now if BOD was fit and not being rested?). I seem to remember D'Arcy was the Player of the 6Ns around then. And Horgan made the Lions in 2005.

I misunderstood you point. I meant the team now is very different to the one he inherited. The team in 2006 was similar enough, but that was pretty much the problem. In hindsight the pack and defence simply weren't good enough. The win in Toulouse was impressive but the signs were there that a well structured and well drilled team would have the better of Leinster, much as always at that point. If anything he did much better than anyone was expecting that season.

Again my point about Fitz was that currently himself and Nacewa would probably start ahead of Horgan, I dunno where you think I'm saying he'd start over BOD, but obviously back then he would have been nowhere. Just a misunderstanding.

I think Matt Williams has a big claim on turning Leinster into a professional outfit

He certainly put them on the right track, but the team is unrecognisable in its approach now from when Cheika inherited it. You rarely ever see the disinterested and dispirited performances that were almost a hallmark of Leinster years back.