Dole merchants

legal-eagle

For my next theory, why not make long term spongers earn their money i.e. a guy I know 26yo does not want to work, If i offered him a job he wouldn't do it (Has happened). He has no drive what so ever, just a lazy person who likes to get up at 12pm and go to the bookies.

So why not make him peform some public works like clean graffiti or pick up litter etc. Why should a person like this be able to claim our money every week and live in their mammys house and make themselves an expense to the state?

Now i'm talking specifically about people who have been on the dole for 2+ years and have made no effort to seek employment yet are perfectly able to work!!

Atleast we would get some bang for our buck if they were made work even 20 hours a week or else just completely cut off their dole. Discuss

Bandit12

legal-eagle wrote: »

For my next theory, why not make long term spongers earn their money i.e. a guy I know 26yo does not want to work, If i offered him a job he wouldn't do it (Has happened). He has no drive what so ever, just a lazy person who likes to get up at 12pm and go to the bookies.

So why not make him peform some public works like clean graffiti or pick up litter etc. Why should a person like this be able to claim our money every week and live in their mammys house and make themselves an expense to the state?

Now i'm talking specifically about people who have been on the dole for 2+ years and have made no effort to seek employment yet are perfectly able to work!!

Atleast we would get some bang for our buck if they were made work even 20 hours a week or else just completely cut off their dole. Discuss

Yawn

Joey the lips

How do you distinguish without discriminating????? I am on the dole a year and half I want to work but can only get min wage and bad hours.

legal-eagle

You distinguish by saying do 20 hours community service or you're not getting any money simple.

Would you not be prepared to do 20 hours work for you're dole?
If not then why get it all, and again i'm talking about people who are fit to work and have been on the dole for 2+ years.

Joey the lips

legal-eagle wrote: »

You distinguish by saying do 20 hours community service or you're not getting any money simple.

Would you not be prepared to do 20 hours work for you're dole?
If not then why get it all, and again i'm talking about people who are fit to work and have been on the dole for 2+ years.

I did. I done vol work for vincent de paul and welfare told me it was against my terms where i must be available for work at all times.

So the question is.....

How can I be available for work and look for work if I am doing 20 hours of work a wee..... Especially considering most of the 20 hrs would be spread over the 5 days at 4 hours a day.

Chardee MacDennis

Joey the lips wrote: »

How do you distinguish without discriminating????? I am on the dole a year and half I want to work but can only get min wage and bad hours.

so you dont want to work...:rolleyes:

Kirby

To be frank, nearly everyone who is healthy and unemployed can get work. The problem is, the jobs that are readily available are undesirable and minimum wage.

I have a qualification. I have a field. Many people are in the same boat. I'm willing to branch out a little as long as its related to what I want to do but I'm not exactly going to jump for joy at the prospect of minimum wage jobs.

I'd prefer to stay unemployed and wait for an opportunity. I am not currently on the dole. I have savings from when I had steady work because I'm not a moron.

The idea of community service for 2+ years people is a good one. I would welcome it. Doubt it will happen though.

mikemac

legal-eagle wrote: »

So why not make him peform some public works like clean graffiti or pick up litter etc.

And do you think the council staff who currently do this job won't feel threatened that they are being replaced by cheap labour?

Would you like your job to be outsourced to somebody on welfare? Maybe your employer would use it as an excuse to slash your wages as they can replace you. And if you are a solicitor then there are no shortage of candidates who want your job and will work for less;)

Joey the lips

BastardPrince wrote: »

so you dont want to work...:rolleyes:

I never said nor implied that.

Kirby wrote: »

To be frank, nearly everyone who is healthy and unemployed can get work. The problem is, the jobs that are readily available are undesirable and minimum wage.

I have a qualification. I have a field. Many people are in the same boat. I'm willing to branch out a little as long as its related to what I want to do but I'm not exactly going to jump for joy at the prospect of minimum wage jobs.

I'd prefer to stay unemployed and wait for an opportunity. I am not currently on the dole. I have savings from when I had steady work because I'm not a moron.

The idea of community service for 2+ years people is a good one. I would welcome it. Doubt it will happen though.

Your realising what most are.... You have taken so long to progress in your area of skill that your afraid by becoming a shelf packer over night you will undo all your work....

One of the reasons many stay unemployed.

legal-eagle

Okay doesn't have to be those jobs but some type of work for 3 days a week. Are you happy for the guy I mentioned in my OP to get money every week?

Joey the lips

legal-eagle wrote: »

Okay doesn't have to be those jobs but some type of work for 3 days a week. Are you happy for the guy I mentioned in my OP to get money every week?

No i am not... I actually agree with you and understand you perfectly. My point is its a loop hole thats hard to close.... Another thing I am actually a carer so stricty speaking I cannot work full time but the dole conditions still apply... ie I cannot volenteer but I cannot get work. Its sh1te....

I am going insane.

But how do you apply the check. How do you determine a waster from a genuine fcuk up in life or an unlucky swine from a total white collar ****e.

Kirby

legal-eagle wrote: »

Okay doesn't have to be those jobs but some type of work for 3 days a week. Are you happy for the guy I mentioned in my OP to get money every week?

Happy? Perhaps not. But I'm not a begrudger. He isn't you. Your reaction to him is very much coming accross as sour grapes. That he is getting "free" money and you have to work for yours. Its a common reaction among the currently employed. It's a somewhat justifiable one too. Nobody likes getting up in the morning while their neighbours are nice and toasty.

But its still petty.

legal-eagle

How do you determine? Like I already said, it's simple...If make them do 20 hours a week and if they don't do it cut their dole.

Its such a simple way of weeding out the spongers!

Joey the lips

legal-eagle wrote: »

How do you determine? Like I already said, it's simple...If make them do 20 hours a week and if they don't do it cut their dole.

Its such a simple way of weeding out the spongers!

With all due respects your still missing the point. Then all they have to do is claim that they could not find work cause you kept them busy...

By the way fyi your thoughts and notions actually border on socialism which most of boards seems to object to.

legal-eagle

Kirby wrote: »

Happy? Perhaps not. But I'm not a begrudger. He isn't you. Your reaction to him is very much coming accross as sour grapes. That he is getting "free" money and you have to work for yours. Its a common reaction among the currently employed. It's a somewhat justifiable one too. Nobody likes getting up in the morning while their neighbours are nice and toasty.

But its still petty.

Eh sour grapes? Not at all, I want to be successful in my life and I have lots of drive to work, so you're way way off the mark. What bothers me is I pay for him to sit nice and toasty obviously it doesn't bother you at all. Do you work BTW?

mikemac

legal-eagle wrote: »

How do you determine? Like I already said, it's simple...If make them do 20 hours a week and if they don't do it cut their dole.

A condition of it is they are jobseeking.
If they are registered to work one Thursday are you going to employ a supervisor to make sure they show up, have the neccesary manual handling and Health & Safety training and if then have to leave for an interview who is to going to do the roster? If someone lives in a rural village and you assign to work in a town are they getting taxi vouchers? As there certainly aren't any buses

Any idea how much this is going to cost to administer in every town in Ireland?

I've heard of this reactive idea for years and it can work but nobody thinks it through bar a few lines in a post

legal-eagle

Joey the lips wrote: »

With all due respects your still missing the point. Then all they have to do is claim that they could not find work cause you kept them busy...

By the way fyi your thoughts and notions actually border on socialism which most of boards seems to object to.

No, you're missing the point because atleast they would contribute their 20hours service for their money or get nothing. Also it would be 2/3 days so they would have plenty of time to look for a job.

legal-eagle

mikemac wrote: »

A condition of it is they are jobseeking.
If they are registered to work one Thursday are you going to employ a supervisor to make sure they show up, have the neccesary manual handling and Health & Safety training and if then have to leave for an interview who to going to do the roster. If someone lives in a rural village and you assign to work in a town are they getting taxi vouchers? As there certainly aren't any buses

Any idea how much this is going to cost to administer in every town in Ireland?

I'd say it would be worth it to set-up the administartion in the long run, because lazy people would have their dole cut. And the supervisor roles would create employment. All the drug dealers who claim dole money would be off the books for starters;)

mikemac

Taxi vouchers to the nearest town may cost more then the weekly Job Seekers payment

No buses in rural Ireland

AARRRGH

legal-eagle wrote: »

Now i'm talking specifically about people who have been on the dole for 2+ years and have made no effort to seek employment yet are perfectly able to work!!

I know a lot of "artists" and "musicians". I'm using quotes because they are in fact untalented tossers.

They all work part-time (some of them full-time) yet are long term dole scammers.

They are all doing very well financially.

What bothers me the most about them is that it is so obvious they are scamming the dole (many of them recently bought houses) yet somehow they get away with it.

Makes me sick really.

Joey the lips

legal-eagle wrote: »

No, you're missing the point because atleast they would contribute their 20hours service for their money or get nothing. Also it would be 2/3 days so they would have plenty of time to look for a job.

I dont agree and if your having trouble making an open mind understand imagine the trouble you will have with closed minds

Best of luck I am off to me leaba.

SLUSK

legal-eagle wrote: »

For my next theory, why not make long term spongers earn their money i.e. a guy I know 26yo does not want to work, If i offered him a job he wouldn't do it (Has happened). He has no drive what so ever, just a lazy person who likes to get up at 12pm and go to the bookies.

So why not make him peform some public works like clean graffiti or pick up litter etc. Why should a person like this be able to claim our money every week and live in their mammys house and make themselves an expense to the state?

Now i'm talking specifically about people who have been on the dole for 2+ years and have made no effort to seek employment yet are perfectly able to work!!

Atleast we would get some bang for our buck if they were made work even 20 hours a week or else just completely cut off their dole. Discuss

Here is a radical sollution, abolish the dole. I have never been on it and I do fine. I am voluntarily unemployed and got my own savings.

kev9100

SLUSK wrote: »

Here is a radical sollution, abolish the dole. I have never been on it and I do fine. I am voluntarily unemployed and got my own savings.

Well thats super for you, but unfortunately not all the unemployed have a cushy bank account to fall back on and since there are no jobs at the moment, the Dole is the only option for alot of people.

Clown Shoes

AARRRGH wrote: »

I know a lot of "artists" and "musicians". I'm using quotes because they are in fact untalented tossers.

They all work part-time (some of them full-time) yet are long term dole scammers.

They are all doing very well financially.

What bothers me the most about them is that it is so obvious they are scamming the dole (many of them recently bought houses) yet somehow they get away with it.

Makes me sick really.

One of the few industries doing well out of the recession is the black economy. No point in working in the PAYE system for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, as a public servant, I have to hand it over. Musicians might claim the dole and do a gig in the back room of a pub every week. I can´t say I blame them, no real incentive to work as an employee in Ireland.

FlutterinBantam

Joey the lips wrote: »

How do you distinguish without discriminating????? I am on the dole a year and half I want to work but can only get min wage and bad hours.

What are bad hours??

Hours that don't suit your particular lifestyle?

Seriously you should be obliged to take a job on offer unless there is a very good reason for not, otherwise the dole should be cut off.

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

No i am not... I actually agree with you and understand you perfectly. My point is its a loop hole thats hard to close.... Another thing I am actually a carer so stricty speaking I cannot work full time but the dole conditions still apply... ie I cannot volenteer but I cannot get work. Its sh1te....

I am going insane.

But how do you apply the check. How do you determine a waster from a genuine fcuk up in life or an unlucky swine from a total white collar ****e.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

What are bad hours??

Hours that don't suit your particular lifestyle?

Seriously you should be obliged to take a job on offer unless there is a very good reason for not, otherwise the dole should be cut off.

If you read the whole 2 pages of the thread you would be a bit more enlightened.... I have highlighted and underlined the bit you missed...

Again if you follow my discussion with the op. You would see I agree with the principle but am equally showing that there will be always an element of people unemployed. This is and always will be the nature of the market.

Now have you a specific question to ask me or are you just on the attack???

Terrontress

Joey the lips wrote: »

If you read the whole 2 pages of the thread you would be a bit more enlightened.... I have highlighted and underlined the bit you missed...

Again if you follow my discussion with the op. You would see I agree with the principle but am equally showing that there will be always an element of people unemployed. This is and always will be the nature of the market.

Now have you a specific question to ask me or are you just on the attack???

If I were you, I'd take the minimum wage job rather than exist on handouts. As someone who has worked his entire adult life and who did a series of part time jobs throughout school and college, I can assure you that there is a great dignity and joy in a job that money can't buy.

You name it - petrol station, cafe, McDonalds, pub. I've done the lot and for very little money but with the satisfaction of a job well done!

nice_guy80

they have those back-to-work programs in the USA. (or the 'accept this job or else we're slashing your benefits')

usually it means doing a job you hate, for very little money just to keep the child support or housing that you have.

it also means cheap labour for the business that hires (gets) the new employee

************
and i've done the lot too in secondary school and college. petrol station, garden centre, meat slaughterhouse, supermacs, pubs, washing dishes, supermarkets, retail stores. i didn't mind what it was as long as i was working and earning some money
i was on the dole for 6 months once, but got so fed up i just had to find any job to get me going again. though i was living quite well on the dole and rent allowance etc

Bugnug

mikemac wrote: »

A condition of it is they are jobseeking.
If they are registered to work one Thursday are you going to employ a supervisor to make sure they show up, have the neccesary manual handling and Health & Safety training and if then have to leave for an interview who is to going to do the roster? If someone lives in a rural village and you assign to work in a town are they getting taxi vouchers? As there certainly aren't any buses

Any idea how much this is going to cost to administer in every town in Ireland?

I've heard of this reactive idea for years and it can work but nobody thinks it through bar a few lines in a post

It would cost a hell of a lot less than forking out for people to be "nice and toasty" while the rest of us keep the economy going. I totally agree with legal eagle. I am from a small country town and I know several people who are perfectly capable of going out and getting jobs but its to easy to stay unemployed in Ireland and live off those who work hard and pay taxes so they dony bother.

And the minimum wage argument does not stack up. We have the highest minimun wage in Europe and the cost of living has dropped by 20% in the last two years. Its the same old story people who dont want to work will find every excuse not to.

Terrontress

A large issue is with the social being too easy to exist on. They need to slash benefits to the level where minimum wage is an attractive option to those on them. They would also do well to pay benefits in tokens, redeemable at supermarkets but not on alcohol to prevent the entire benefit cheque going straight down the pub.

An able bodied person being on the dole for a year and a half just shows that the dole is far too comfortable. We all want to earn €100k a year but I'm not going to sit at home until such a job comes along.

Daithinski

Kirby wrote: »

To be frank, nearly everyone who is healthy and unemployed can get work.

You must know something everybody else doesn't. Tell us where these 300,000 jobs are hiding.

Kirby wrote: »

The idea of community service for 2+ years people is a good one. I would welcome it. Doubt it will happen though.

You get community service for committing a crime.

As far as I am aware, being on the dole for 2+ years is not a criminal offense.

Bugnug

Daithinski wrote: »

You must know something everybody else doesn't. Tell us where these 300,000 jobs are hiding.



You get community service for committing a crime.

As far as I am aware, being on the dole for 2+ years is not a criminal offense.

Do you know what that doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Joey the lips

Terrontress wrote: »

If I were you, I'd take the minimum wage job rather than exist on handouts. As someone who has worked his entire adult life and who did a series of part time jobs throughout school and college, I can assure you that there is a great dignity and joy in a job that money can't buy.

You name it - petrol station, cafe, McDonalds, pub. I've done the lot and for very little money but with the satisfaction of a job well done!

If you were me you would do anything but if you were me you would also realise that although your working for min wage you are actually compeating with a lot of perspective people.

Additionally what is the crak with doing interview after interview and being told if you dont hear back you did not get the job....

I have actually offered to work on a commission basis but guess what that is classed as being self employed and you then loose a lot more.

I seem to have to defend myself here and no one knows anything about me.

I simply made a comment that you cannot take the waster like the op discusses and apply the rule to everyone.


For example. A married man with 4 kids(Had his family long ago in the good times) would be wasteing his time driving 20 miles to work for min wage of 4 hours.

Its not as simple as you perceive.

nice_guy80

Joey the lips wrote: »

I have actually offered to work on a commission basis but guess what that is classed as being self employed and you then loose a lot more.

its spelt lose. why do you think that? self employed people pay a lot less tax

Terrontress

Joey the lips wrote: »

If you were me you would do anything but if you were me you would also realise that although your working for min wage you are actually compeating with a lot of perspective people.

Additionally what is the crak with doing interview after interview and being told if you dont hear back you did not get the job....

I have actually offered to work on a commission basis but guess what that is classed as being self employed and you then loose a lot more.

I seem to have to defend myself here and no one knows anything about me.

I simply made a comment that you cannot take the waster like the op discusses and apply the rule to everyone.


For example. A married man with 4 kids(Had his family long ago in the good times) would be wasteing his time driving 20 miles to work for min wage of 4 hours.

Its not as simple as you perceive.

I don't have an issue with you. I have an issue with the system which allows you to exist paid for by the toil of others.

Your posts are full of points stating that you don't see it worth your while coming off the dole because you would only get minimum wage or that working as self employed would make you worse off than minimum wage etc.

I think that surviving on the dole is the worst of all. And the dole allowing people to sit and not do a single productive day's work for 18 months yet live in warmth and eat well and drink pints is sickening.

You can't blame the people who do it. It is such an easy thing to do. People convince themselves that a future employer would look more kindly on them sitting on their ar5es for 18 months than doing a cleaning job. They see certain jobs as beneath them but not waiting for a dole cheque to arrive.

The whole system stinks and then recent reforms in the last budget should have gone much, much further.

KC JONES

Terrontress wrote: »

not on alcohol to prevent the entire benefit cheque going straight down the pub.

Anyone who would give their dole to a pub would be some idiot

freelancerTax

nice_guy80 wrote: »

its spelt lose. why do you think that? self employed people pay a lot less tax

What are you talking about - you've obviously never been self employed

Terrontress

KC JONES wrote: »

Anyone who would give their dole to a pub would be some idiot

doesn't stop them doing so, in exchange for fifty pints of Guinness.

ei.sdraob

Joey the lips wrote: »

How do you distinguish without discriminating????? I am on the dole a year and half I want to work but can only get min wage and bad hours.

let me guess

the min wage job will pay almost same as sitting at home on dole?

you just highlighted a huge issue with the welfare system

Joey the lips

nice_guy80 wrote: »

its spelt lose. why do you think that? self employed people pay a lot less tax

A self employed person is classed differently in the tax system so you cannot claim carers benefit which I am currently on because I am a carer so for me the rule would be you get nothing tax or otherwise.

Terrontress wrote: »

I don't have an issue with you. I have an issue with the system which allows you to exist paid for by the toil of others.

Your posts are full of points stating that you don't see it worth your while coming off the dole because you would only get minimum wage or that working as self employed would make you worse off than minimum wage etc.

I think that surviving on the dole is the worst of all. And the dole allowing people to sit and not do a single productive day's work for 18 months yet live in warmth and eat well and drink pints is sickening.

You can't blame the people who do it. It is such an easy thing to do. People convince themselves that a future employer would look more kindly on them sitting on their ar5es for 18 months than doing a cleaning job. They see certain jobs as beneath them but not waiting for a dole cheque to arrive.

The whole system stinks and then recent reforms in the last budget should have gone much, much further.

I was trying to show that the system is not as transparent as right and wrong.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

let me guess

the min wage job will pay almost same as sitting at home on dole?

you just highlighted a huge issue with the welfare system

Please read the whole thread with all my comments and then ask me this question. I already answered this.

KC JONES

Terrontress wrote: »

doesn't stop them doing so, in exchange for fifty pints of Guinness.

Well I'm sure when they are alcoholic being dried out that Guinnes will send reps to the hospital to ask if they are hungry. I know of a guy who drank 35K of redundancy in one pub and when all gone they would not give him a drink when he was short 50 pence, was in punt times.

FlutterinBantam

heh heh dead right, they know a tosser and a loser when they see one.


I'd do the same myself.

KC JONES

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

heh heh dead right, they know a tosser and a loser when they see one.


I'd do the same myself.

anyone giving their dole to a publican is a loser too

Joey the lips

KC JONES wrote: »

anyone giving their dole to a publican is a loser too

Thats what he was saying was it not?

Terrontress

Joey the lips wrote: »

A self employed person is classed differently in the tax system so you cannot claim carers benefit which I am currently on because I am a carer so for me the rule would be you get nothing tax or otherwise.

You would get the dignity of having a decent day's work and the knowledge and pride that you have contributed to society.

Does that count for nothing?

deadhead13

Kirby wrote: »

To be frank, nearly everyone who is healthy and unemployed can get work. The problem is, the jobs that are readily available are undesirable and minimum wage.

.

I doubt there are 423,400 "undesirable and minimum wage" jobs out there, given that only around 4.5% of all jobs in the economy are minimum wage. And the fact that unemployment is expected to continue to rise in 2010.

Terrontress

KC JONES wrote: »

Well I'm sure when they are alcoholic being dried out that Guinnes will send reps to the hospital to ask if they are hungry. I know of a guy who drank 35K of redundancy in one pub and when all gone they would not give him a drink when he was short 50 pence, was in punt times.

What I was trying to get across that it is very easy to socialise at the pub while existing solely on the current welfare system. I think that the dole should cover enough to get by only. If someone can afford a night at the pub or even a Chinese takeaway while on the dole then they are being paid too much.

The dole should ensure that a nutritious meal can be provided 3 times per day, comfortable clothes and shoes and not much besides!

Joey the lips

Terrontress wrote: »

You would get the dignity of having a decent day's work and the knowledge and pride that you have contributed to society.

Does that count for nothing?

There is a multitude of thoughts going through my mind about you at the moment. you clearly do not understand what it means to be a carer or are to stubborn to understand why a carer cannot go self employed.

Belive it or not a carer is taken by the goverment as providing more benefit to society than is reconised. Contact the carers association if you do not believe me.There is 18,500 of carers in this country and if they stoped their work for one hour the person they are careing for would have to be brought to a hospital. That simple action would cripple the health service so much that while its only an hour it would take the health service a week to recover from. This is statasical fact.

So please do not feed me bull about providing a service to society.

But I would rather you accept that I am not unemployed by choice I am unemployed because i can only work 15 hours a week. I have met with govt officails and explained the HOLE that carers are caught in. That the govt accepts there contrabution to society but will not support them in there attempts to work.

http://www.carersireland.com/index.php

Link for more information.

Additionally I have been working on a vol basis for the SVP the last while. I have been advised that if I am fit to do this I am fit to work full stop. In otherwords I am either am or are not available for work.I cannot see any employer allowing me leave work when I need to can you.???? Up to 8 times a day??? i have raised this stupidity with my local TD and it is currently in line for a dail question

Now back to the arguement my orig comment to the op was how do you distinguish a person who deserves dole from one who does not. Like wise I am sure when you worked in a factory with 10 lads was it fair that they all got the same wage even though jack the lad stood in the corner most of the day and was a waste of speace

sceptre

Rather than have thoughts (singly or in a multitude) going through heads about fellow posters (as explicitly stated), how's about we take a few drops from the "calm down and stop personalising the discussion like the forum charter clearly says" bottle...

/mod

Terrontress

Joey the lips wrote: »

There is a multitude of thoughts going through my mind about you at the moment. you clearly do not understand what it means to be a carer or are to stubborn to understand why a carer cannot go self employed.

Belive it or not a carer is taken by the goverment as providing more benefit to society than is reconised. Contact the carers association if you do not believe me.There is 18,500 of carers in this country and if they stoped their work for one hour the person they are careing for would have to be brought to a hospital. That simple action would cripple the health service so much that while its only an hour it would take the health service a week to recover from. This is statasical fact.

So please do not feed me bull about providing a service to society.

But I would rather you accept that I am not unemployed by choice I am unemployed because i can only work 15 hours a week. I have met with govt officails and explained the HOLE that carers are caught in. That the govt accepts there contrabution to society but will not support them in there attempts to work.

http://www.carersireland.com/index.php

Link for more information.

Additionally I have been working on a vol basis for the SVP the last while. I have been advised that if I am fit to do this I am fit to work full stop. In otherwords I am either am or are not available for work.I cannot see any employer allowing me leave work when I need to can you.???? Up to 8 times a day??? i have raised this stupidity with my local TD and it is currently in line for a dail question

Now back to the arguement my orig comment to the op was how do you distinguish a person who deserves dole from one who does not. Like wise I am sure when you worked in a factory with 10 lads was it fair that they all got the same wage even though jack the lad stood in the corner most of the day and was a waste of speace

In your first post on this thread, you have stated that you are on the dole 18 months, not carer's allowance. You also stated that the minimum wage and irregular hours are what is stopping you from working, not caring for someone. I have said that I am not referring to you, rather the system which can allow someone to do exactly what you said you do in your initial posts.

Joey the lips

sceptre wrote: »

Rather than have thoughts (singly or in a multitude) going through heads about fellow posters (as explicitly stated), how's about we take a few drops from the "calm down and stop personalising the discussion like the forum charter clearly says" bottle...

/mod

My apologies. To you all. Its annoying and I am more annoying and going no where by my words. i am not the person i am being made out to be. I am happy to work but the system which i have to deal with is unforgiving.

My head is done in not working and be branded does not help.