Why can't they grit the Roads

NickDrake

Why can't they grit the roads in this country?? Laziness? The need for double pay, overtime etc? or just plain stupidity?

They have failed the grit the main roads all week. Shambles. In any other country in Europe, council workers are up early or at night constantly salting and griting the roads.

We really do live in a shambles of a country. Guess thats what happens when idiots vote Fianna Fail in for a decade

Berty

The answer is plain and simple.

Trade Unions!

G-Money

I live near you in Dublin and I thought the roads there were ok? At least they were when I left on Wednesday...

BeardyGit

Gritting and covering the associated costs is a matter for local councils, which are comprised of representatives from all parties. Go moan at the local representative you voted for....

PeakOutput

most of the roads i was on outside of housing estates seemed gritted to me

NickDrake

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Gritting and covering the associated costs is a matter for local councils, which are comprised of representatives from all parties. Go moan at the local representative you voted for....

Typical Irish attitude there. I didn't vote. I am guessing you voted Fianna Fail last election??

In Cork at the moment . Its very dangerous down here. Not a bit of grit in sight. Absolute shambles

SpannerMonkey

i live in clare and all the main roads were well gritted , granted some back roads and houseing estates werent done but its crazy to think that they could be IMO

peasant

The other thing is, there is only so much grit can do. Below -5 or so even gritted roads freeze again and once there is an existing coating of ice even grit won't dissolve it.

Ireland has one of the largest networks of roads per capita (think of all the countless boreens), there is only so much a handful of gritters can reasonably do.

And then there is the question ...how many millions are you prepared to spend on equipment and trained personell for what is effectively a few days per year?

SpannerMonkey

peasant wrote: »

The other thing is, there is only so much grit can do. Below -5 or so even gritted roads freeze again and once there is an existing coating of ice even grit won't dissolve it.

Ireland has one of the largest networks of roads per capita (think of all the countless boreens), there is only so much a handful of gritters can reasonably do.

And then there is the question ...how many millions are you prepared to spend on equipment and trained personell for what is effectively a few days per year?

+1

NickDrake

peasant wrote: »

The other thing is, there is only so much grit can do. Below -5 or so even gritted roads freeze again and once there is an existing coating of ice even grit won't dissolve it.

Ireland has one of the largest networks of roads per capita (think of all the countless boreens), there is only so much a handful of gritters can reasonably do.

And then there is the question ...how many millions are you prepared to spend on equipment and trained personell for what is effectively a few days per year?

Few days??? This has been going on for 2 weeks. And more to come over the next 2

SpannerMonkey

:rolleyes: get real man this hasnt happend in years its totally unreasonable to spend millions for something that happens once a decade , these are the lowest temperatures i have ever experienced

peasant

NickDrake wrote: »

Few days. This has been going on for 2 weeks. And more to come over the next 2

Yeah ...and where are all the necessary gritters and drivers supposed to come from? Santa didn't bring any
These are fairly exceptional circumstances ...anybody remember that many ice days in a row in recent winters? I don't.

georgem25

I am in Shannon, Co Clare and they gritted the main roads late last night and again around lunch time today

TheNog

peasant wrote: »

Ireland has one of the largest networks of roads per capita (think of all the countless boreens), there is only so much a handful of gritters can reasonably do.

I remember reading several years ago there is estimated 90,000kms of road in Ireland.

Toto Wolfcastle

peasant wrote: »

The other thing is, there is only so much grit can do. Below -5 or so even gritted roads freeze again and once there is an existing coating of ice even grit won't dissolve it.

+1

The residents committee in my parents' estate organised for the roads to be gritted on Christmas Eve. It rained overnight and the temperatures plummeted again resulting in the estate becoming an ice rink. The gritting only helped for so long.

Tech3

At the very least National and regional roads should be gritted.

dsane1

Am i right in thinking that most county councils are now controlled by FG and labour due to FF wipeout in local elections ?

PCPhoto

OP.... where in Cork are you - I'm on the northside of the city and theres no problems with the roads -havent seen any gritters but roads are good to go so guessing they have been out and about.

temps and conditions are worse in Cork than in Dublin .... so less need for gritters in Dublin.

Ps.Blame politicians .... thats the answer ..... the Council are in charge of gritting the roads...and are limited in their budget - I'm sure theres something much more "important" (to them) that the money was spent on during the year.

BeardyGit

NickDrake wrote: »

Typical Irish attitude there. I didn't vote. I am guessing you voted Fianna Fail last election??

In Cork at the moment . Its very dangerous down here. Not a bit of grit in sight. Absolute shambles

Typical Irish attitude? Typical bloody complaining from someone who didn't bother their arse voting in the first place....

Gritting is a waste of my taxes for the most part - The machinery is expensive and there's not enough demand annually to get the return on the investment - The overtime bill wouldn't be that much of a concern to be quite honest, which you'd already know if you'd bothered to look into it.

I'd rather my local government spent my taxes more effectively on road improvements etc., rather than dumping it onto the roads to wash away in the next rain....

.

pvt.joker

i had to drive the M1 the last few nights to get to / from work. its in a shocking state, with ice and frost all over the road. the gritter goes up and down it maybe once a day, which is nowhere near enough. I had to drive at 60kmph the whole way down the M1 to dundalk due to it. No grit anywhere. A bloody disgrace

teednab-el

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Typical Irish attitude? Typical bloody complaining from someone who didn't bother their arse voting in the first place....

Gritting is a waste of my taxes for the most part - The machinery is expensive and there's not enough demand annually to get the return on the investment -
.

Well im sorry but it isnt a waste of yours or anyones taxes if it saves someone's life or prevents an accident from happening.

peasant

teednab-el wrote: »

Well im sorry but it isnt a waste of yours or anyones taxes if it saves someone's life or prevents an accident from happening.

So show us your winter tyres then

BeardyGit

teednab-el wrote: »

Well im sorry but it isnt a waste of yours or anyones taxes if it saves someone's life or prevents an accident from happening.

There's a cost vs benefit balance to be struck....and here in Ireland the balance is towards not gritting heavily. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities, but ignoring that fact offends my practicalities. You might as well argue that we should reduce the speed limits everywhere to 60Kph, on the basis it's bound to save a life somewhere during the course of the motoring year - Well, it's just as ridiculous an argument to make....

ardmacha

i had to drive the M1 the last few nights to get to / from work. its in a shocking state, with ice and frost all over the road. the gritter goes up and down it maybe once a day, which is nowhere near enough. I had to drive at 60kmph the whole way down the M1 to dundalk due to it. No grit anywhere

The larger part of the M1 is privatised, so you cannot blame the "council" for that one. I drove on the M1 on Xmas eve and Xmas and it was gritted. That said there may have been problems during the night.

worded

peasant wrote: »

So show us your winter tyres then

GF laughs and says that as soon as we get a bit of bad wather the country skids to a halt.

How do ppl in Canada etc manage with a few feet of snow?

AugustusMaximus

My personal belief is that considering only a fraction of my motor tax each year is actually spent on the roads, then the very least they could do for us is to grit our roads to allow us to drive on them.

Maybe if they were to reduce motor tax/VRT then we could afford to buy a set of winter tyres.

Hell, winter tyres have 21.5% VAT on them. Not much of an incentive to buy them.

Sofiztikated

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Hell, winter tyres have 21.5% VAT on them. Not much of an incentive to buy them.

Honestly? Thats bunkum. The few quid you'd save if the VAT was less is minimal. Your incentive to buy them is safer motoring for you and your loved ones.

I don't have "winter tyres" because I have nowhere to store them when its not winter. I know I should get some, but having had a set of wheels nicked from the back of the house before, I'm not inclined to invite that again.

AugustusMaximus

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Honestly? Thats bunkum. The few quid you'd save if the VAT was less is minimal. Your incentive to buy them is safer motoring for you and your loved ones.

I don't have "winter tyres" because I have nowhere to store them when its not winter. I know I should get some, but having had a set of wheels nicked from the back of the house before, I'm not inclined to invite that again.

The VAT on a set of wheels costing 250 Euros would be 44 Euros.


If this winter snap lasts much longer I might well buy a set of winter tyres. However, like yourself I have nowhere to store them.

Winter tyres or not, I'd still expect the roads to be gritted.

Anyone at a guess know how much a tyre yard would cost for changing the tyres on a car without purchasing them ?

KC JONES

janeybabe wrote: »

+1

The residents committee in my parents' estate organised for the roads to be gritted on Christmas Eve. It rained overnight and the temperatures plummeted again resulting in the estate becoming an ice rink. The gritting only helped for so long.

What would happen if someone had an accident after the residents gritting? Would the be responsible/sued?

I heard that in rural areas farmers do not want to grit their own areas cos if there was an accident they could be sued wheras the council would be insured. IO do not know if this is true.

It occurred to me that in estates if everyone did the path outside their house people could walk but would the person then be responsible if some one fell?

Sofiztikated

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

The VAT on a set of wheels costing 250 Euros would be 44 Euros.


If this winter snap lasts much longer I might well buy a set of winter tyres. However, like yourself I have nowhere to store them.

Winter tyres or not, I'd still expect the roads to be gritted.

Anyone at a guess know how much a tyre yard would cost for changing the tyres on a car without purchasing them ?

But there would still be VAT charged on the tyres, so say 13.5%, so the saving would be €15, no so much of a saving. And shop around a bit for your tyres, and you'll save that anyway.

Oh, trust me, I expect the roads to be gritted as well, but as already stated, grit won't do much on existing ice/sub -5 temps.

My local tyre place charged me €10 a tyre fitted and balanced the last time I got them done, so ~€15 should be expected. (Including waste tyre disposal)

i71jskz5xu42pb

NickDrake wrote: »

Typical Irish attitude there. I didn't vote. I am guessing you voted Fianna Fail last election??

I'd say your attitude is more typical. Whinge and whine about something but yet not be prepared to do even the smallest thing about it. If you don't like the way things are being done by your local council either :

• Pick up the phone and call your local councillors. It does not matter if you voted or voted for the opposition, your councillors are there to represent your regardless.
• Vote next time, it really ain't difficult,

Coming on here for a moan is impotence in the extreme.

But I'd agree with the other posters, it's impractical for Ireland to grit every road. The main roads, from what I saw (Dublin to Limerick) were gritted.

AugustusMaximus

Sofiztikated wrote: »

But there would still be VAT charged on the tyres, so say 13.5%, so the saving would be €15, no so much of a saving. And shop around a bit for your tyres, and you'll save that anyway.

Oh, trust me, I expect the roads to be gritted as well, but as already stated, grit won't do much on existing ice/sub -5 temps.

My local tyre place charged me €10 a tyre fitted and balanced the last time I got them done, so ~€15 should be expected. (Including waste tyre disposal)

They could always declare winter tyres to be 0% or exempt from VAT if they wanted to.


€10 per tyres change wouldn't be bad. Would ad up to €80 per year.

I'm guessing you could get several years worth of driving out of a set or winter tyres. Better yet, only get new summer tyres when you are planning on changing between summer/winter tyres to save a bit of cash.

corktina

PCPhoto wrote: »

OP.... where in Cork are you - I'm on the northside of the city and theres no problems with the roads -havent seen any gritters but roads are good to go so guessing they have been out and about.

temps and conditions are worse in Cork than in Dublin .... so less need for gritters in Dublin.

Ps.Blame politicians .... thats the answer ..... the Council are in charge of gritting the roads...and are limited in their budget - I'm sure theres something much more "important" (to them) that the money was spent on during the year.

i drove from North Cork to the Airport this morning (80 miles+) and didnt meet a single metre of treated road...black ice wall to wall...i made it as I am an experianced driver, had it been a normal-traffic day, there would have been grid-lock

BTW reportedly the local council depot here in Kanturk has run out of salt and has little chance of getting more short term Id guess....stay home if you dont need to travel....

snowman707

teednab-el wrote: »

Well im sorry but it isnt a waste of yours or anyones taxes if it saves someone's life or prevents an accident from happening.

a lot less accidents would occur if people learned how to drive on ice and slowed down, kept their distance etc,

every time we get a couple of snowflakes in this country, we have a crowd whinging about the roads not been gritted, most of them are too lazy to sweep the snow from their front door steps, suppose they want the council to do that too.

I have a cousin living in the mountains of Vermont USA, he often got snowed in for weeks on end and never once complains.

The weather forecasters gave nearly a weeks advance warning of this cold spell and people had ample time to prepare

Sofiztikated

snowman707 wrote: »

a lot less accidents would occur if people learned how to drive on ice and slowed down, kept their distance etc,

every time we get a couple of snowflakes in this country, we have a crowd whinging about the roads not been gritted, most of them are too lazy to sweep the snow from their front door steps, suppose they want the council to do that too.

I have a cousin living in the mountains of Vermont USA, he often got snowed in for weeks on end and never once complains.

The weather forecasters gave nearly a weeks advance warning of this cold spell and people had ample time to prepare

+1

Was driving from Clones, Co Monaghan to Cavan today. Had someone tailgate me, on a road that was obviously icy, I was doing 40mph, wasn't safer to go any faster, and then he decided to whip out past me. As he went past, I could see him on his phone, and kids in the back climbing over the seats!

I mean, it was icy, very very icy, car sawing over the road with any little movement. Came upon a lorry in the ditch, just after happening, a car in the ditch, had been there a while because was frozen over, another car in a ditch that was more recent, and he still decides to be a 'tard when it came to driving.

Rumours are that Monaghan Coco are out of grit as well, and Cavan Coco aren't gritting roads after hours due to a pay issue.

worded

KC JONES wrote: »

What would happen if someone had an accident after the residents gritting? Would the be responsible/sued?

I heard that in rural areas farmers do not want to grit their own areas cos if there was an accident they could be sued wheras the council would be insured. IO do not know if this is true.

It occurred to me that in estates if everyone did the path outside their house people could walk but would the person then be responsible if some one fell?

I heard the same, they could be leaving them selves open to a claim.

Wonder if they missed a bit? What estate did he say they gritted?

worded

Could we spray Bob Geldof on the roads? He is "a true Brit, with true Grit" re Margret Thacher. Maybe include her in the mix as well.

JHMEG

Owing to a liberal planning system that allows more one-off housing to be built than in any other country in Europe, we have ended up with more road per capita than any other country in Europe.

If you live up a boreen, grit it yourself, and don't be waiting on another subsidy from central government.

corktina

i dont think the N20 is a Boreen...well except for the bit south of Buttevant...

Absurdum

snowman707 wrote: »

a lot less accidents would occur if people learned how to drive on ice and slowed down, kept their distance etc,

every time we get a couple of snowflakes in this country, we have a crowd whinging about the roads not been gritted, most of them are too lazy to sweep the snow from their front door steps, suppose they want the council to do that too.

nail on the head there buddy....a little bit of responsibilty from everyone would go a long way!

ninty9er

My mother left the house at 6am yesterday morning for work and the roads in Limerick City, out through the county on the N7 and into Newport from Finnegans going into Tipperary NR Co. Co at points were all gritted at that point. She left work at 10am and had to crawl home (and to the car after falling)

There's no level of gritting that can account for that.

THEY ARE GRITTING THE ROADS

ninty9er

corktina wrote: »

i dont think the N20 is a Boreen...well except for the bit south of Buttevant...

That bit south of Buttevant is slippy in dry weather, you'd really want to be an idiot to try driving any faster than 50 km/h on that in the type of ice that has been on it the last week.

bog master

JHMEG wrote: »

Owing to a liberal planning system that allows more one-off housing to be built than in any other country in Europe, we have ended up with more road per capita than any other country in Europe.

If you live up a boreen, grit it yourself, and don't be waiting on another subsidy from central government.

What a load of B*******! Most of these roads and boreens have existed for many many years. And yes, I dont expect anyone to grit the boreen I live down, but I do expect a bit of gritting on the major, to us anyway, roads into the town nearest us.

And as to comparisons with America, I lived in upstate NY for 10 years. Often one snowfall in one day would equal what we got here in a whole winter. Snow is easy enough to drive on, you learn quickly, but "black ice" is almost unkown in America, you have snow, or bitterly cold temperatures but with a low humidity, dry roads even at -30 plus.

mooman

corktina wrote: »

BTW reportedly the local council depot here in Kanturk has run out of salt and has little chance of getting more short term Id guess....stay home if you dont need to travel....

Apparently there isn't a grain of salt left between Cork and Kerry Councils and there's no sign of anymore to come anytime soon.

KamiKazi

Jaysus lads I'd hate to see your reactions if we ever got any proper winter weather :rolleyes:

There's only so much gritting a county council can realistically do, do you think they can just pull gritting elves out of their asses when we get a bit of ice? A few nights ago we got an hour of rain followed by heavy frost which turn the water into a solid sheet of ice, What would gritting do against conditions like that? How many people have taken any advanced driving courses to make them better able to cope with a bit of frost or ice?

And for the record, I don't even have a car, I'm on a motorbike. Would love to see any of the whingers on here take a bike out in this weather learn to drive in the conditions, and I'm sure you'll all be better off for it

AugustusMaximus

KamiKazi wrote: »

Jaysus lads I'd hate to see your reactions if we ever got any proper winter weather :rolleyes:

There's only so much gritting a county council can realistically do, do you think they can just pull gritting elves out of their asses when we get a bit of ice? A few nights ago we got an hour of rain followed by heavy frost which turn the water into a solid sheet of ice, What would gritting do against conditions like that? How many people have taken any advanced driving courses to make them better able to cope with a bit of frost or ice?

And for the record, I don't even have a car, I'm on a motorbike. Would love to see any of the whingers on here take a bike out in this weather learn to drive in the conditions, and I'm sure you'll all be better off for it

No driving course in the world could prepare you for driving on solid sheets of ice. What good would driving course do when your car won't steer at even 10 mph.

The only solution there would be to fit studded tyres to your car and I seriously doubt anyone in this country would do that.

KamiKazi

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

No driving course in the world could prepare you for driving on solid sheets of ice. What good would driving course do when your car won't steer at even 10 mph.

The only solution there would be to fit studded tyres to your car and I seriously doubt anyone in this country would do that.

Stay at home then, that skirt you're wearing will only end up giving you pneumonia anyway

peasant

I know why they don't grit ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-qUh3a3Fpc

...they stopped making the Beetle

AugustusMaximus

Been posted in another thread, but its a good example of how no driving course can really prepare you for very bad ice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBZXyxHWFoY

JHMEG

bog master wrote: »

Most of these roads and boreens have existed for many many years.

In other countries these would be closed to vehicular traffic in time and removed from the local authority's list of roads for maintenance. The fact is plain and simple, and the numbers support it: we have too many roads.

AugustusMaximus

JHMEG wrote: »

In other countries these would be closed to vehicular traffic in time and removed from the local authority's list of roads for maintenance. The fact is plain and simple, and the numbers support it: we have too many roads.

That has more to do than just poor planning.

1. We have a low population to land area ratio
2. We have very little mountainous land. The majority of the land in this country is suitable to farming and of course, building one off housing.

Because of this, we could well have the highest amount of tarmaced roads per person in the world.

Aside from leading to gritting problems, it also means it would cost this country more per person to service these roads properly. Due to the wide geographical spread of our population it also means the risk of having an accident is great as more people have to drive on regional and local roads here in Ireland in comparison to other countries.

In essance, this is an inherent problem in Ireland which proper planning will do little to correct.