My mother and going to mass

sarmer

My mother is a very strict catholic and from about the age of 17 (Im 26 now) I have not been interested in going to mass. When I told my mother this at the time she became hysterical and for 4 years she blackmailed me into going to mass by telling me that she would not pay for my car insurance unless I went - (I was learning to drive on the family car at the time).

At age 21 she finally relented and gave up trying to get me to go but every Christmas she still tries to guilt trip me into going.

Today it all came to a head when I said that I wasn't going to go a) because of the recent child sex abuse scandal, b) because I had arranged to phone a friend who has been seriously ill and c) I really hate being railroaded into things like this anyway.

She came back and is absolutely hysterical. I havent raised my voice to her about it at all, I just explained the above reasons and stated that she can't make me do things like this at the age of 26. It's such a sore point and I don't know what to do.

Am I being unreasonable? What should I do?

star-pants

You're not being unreasonable, you're over 18 and you don't want to go.

You've explained your reasons to her and she doesn't want to listen. Best thing is do as you have, don't raise your voice, don't get sucked into an arguement, you have a right not to go and you have a right not to have her go nuts at you over it.

She's obviously very much into her religion and doesn't want to hear anything else - so unless you try (another time) to sit down and explain to her why you don't like going (and have her listen/understand), it's probably going to remain a sore point between ye.

DamagedTrax

speak to her calmly and tell her that while you have no wish to argue with that she needs to respect your beliefs just as you do hers.

sometimes parents respond well to being spoken to like adults

sarmer

Thanks for the advice. Though I've been trying to speak to her like an adult but she stormed off to her room crying!

When she comes out I know she's going to threaten not to give me my present tomorrow as 'punishment'. It's just ridiculous that she still treats me this way, I'm 26 and she treats me like a child.

I know I really need to move out, but unfortunately like many people I'm unemployed so I'm not in a position to

star-pants

I'm 26 and live at home/unemployed so I understand that part of your situation.
I do get annoyed at having to conform to some of the household rules because I'm too old, but, I live at home, I play by their rules.
But in regards to going to mass, that's pushing it a little. I would try sitting her down and telling her as Damaged said, that you respect her position and you understand her wanting you to go, but that it's not for you. Hopefully she'll calm down soon

muboop1

If it means that much to her would you not just go?

Morals and all that I know... but like...

I get trying to have you independence etc...

But is the hours of hassle, the anger and everything that comes with it really worth it? Mass takes just over half an hour then your free... It's once a year etc...

End of the day, sometimes I honestly believe it's jut not worth it!

I'm assuming you are living at home?

Consider it doing her a favour?

LadyMayBelle

I'm in the same situation as you too, 26 and living at home because of college and no job..my parents are very in church-going and it has caused some serious agro. I am going tomorrow tho because I want to see some friends who only come for christmas (it's a christian church) but weekly it can be an issue. At the end of the day you're 26 and it will get easier when you break that tradition! Here's to you, it;s tough now but it will get easier when she realises your seriously standing on your own two feet x

krudler

is it purely for the religious aspect she wants you to go or is it a family gathering type of affair? I'd be as non church as you can get but if it bothered my parents that much i'd suck it up and go, yeah you can call it being hypocritical if you dont believe and all that but sometimes the easier life is just...easier. Although getting hysterical because you dont have the same beliefs is a bit much, you are an adult who has chosen not to go to church (and with good reason) so she should respect this, if it doesnt matter you dont go at any other time of year then going purely because its christmas day shouldnt make a difference, touch call op, either relent and just daydream through the half hour or stand your ground and put up with more hassle

Ostrom

Just go! An hour of your time to keep the peace (which i will be doing tomorrow) is nothing. I feel the same about it as you do (i'm also mid twenties) but also enjoy the familiarity of the routine, moreso since i live away and dont get home much. Point is find something to enjoy about it and just go if it means that much to them, it sounds as if they have been good to you.

LegacyUser

My mother used to try that on me. However it never worked as emotional blackmail is a never ending trap. The more she uses hysterical tantrums like this to get her own way and the more you give in then she perceives using hysteria as a successful strategy and will keep doing it to control you.

Ignore her. Especially the tears, its pathetic and selfish of a grown woman to cause upset like this. What she wants is to try to make you look bad but its herself that looks bad. You said your piece leave it at that. If she withholds your present, let her. Let the baby have her bottle.

Let her see that her martyr act, tears and emotional blackmail achieve nothing except her making others uneasy and herself look melodramatic and selfish.

I stopped going to mass at 15 and was very upfront about it. My parents were stricter than strict, but I point blank never entertained their drama about it so there was nothing they could do. You have to stand up strong at the start and then when they accept life is much easier. You have to break eggs to make omelettes.

Its a long range thing, yes you could go tomorrow but then you are just delaying the inevitable.

I could not stomach going into a church. I feel very strongly in the light of what the RC church has done and allowed that no-one should be forced to go there against their will.
I know what they are. To all those saying go for a quiet life, remember the victims who suffered much more so everyone could have a quiet life. Its the good man who stands by and does nothing....etc

Best of luck OP.

mikemac

Can you not just go to Christmas mass? Yes you may not want to but it's only one service a year. One hour out of your life.

I understand you want your mother to respect your position but while you are living at home, her house - her rules.
When you get your own place or rent some place you can do what you want.

bronte

TBH...I'd just explain nicely why you don't want to go and leave it at that.
If she wants to throw a strop, then that's her issue.

kraggy

Why are people suggesting that he should just suck it up?

As another poster said, if it works for her this time, it will work for her on other issues.

OP, hold your ground. Don't even think of going to mass if you don't want to.

Nevyn

If you made your confirmations then you were confirmed as an adult member of the catholic church and your parents and god parents at that point handed over the responsibility for your soul and religious adherence to you.

So the the state of your soul is between you, the christian god and your confessor (priest) and you can tell your mother thank you but it is none of her concern as you made your confirmation.

Denerick

I'm in the same boat as the op, have strictly catholic parents and have had loads of barnies with them about it. But I can never understand this refusal to go to Christmas day mass... What is the big deal, really? The major reason why it matters to your parents is because its sort of like the one big night of the year when families who aren't living together turn up united at mass in front of all your neighbours. Its a vain social thing, more than anything, and it always reflect bad on the family (By other members of this BS social vanity) who are missing a couple of siblings. I don't like it any more than you OP, but I recognise its important to my parents and I honestly think its a bit selfish to refuse to go on Christmas. You are living underneath their roof, aren't you? What else are you going to be doing on Christmas? Watching crap on TV?

Just do what most people do; go to humour their parents and grin and think of the time to come when the Roman Catholic Church will be a distant memory, something to scare your grandkids with.

DamagedTrax

mikemac wrote: »

I understand you want your mother to respect your position but while you are living at home, her house - her rules.

oh come on, while i can agree with other posts saying to go to keep the peace (not what i'd do but i can see the merit) the "her house - her rules" line is madness!!!

this is a 26 yr old adult we're talking about. are you honestly saying that going to mass is a rule that should/can be enforced?

believe or you're out kinda thing?

browndress

Being an adult means making your own decisions and supporting yourself. If you can't manage to live in your own household then you are not an adult. You are a dependant. You do as the head of the household demands. If you were destitute on the streets and you were offered a bed or a meal by a religious order, would you refuse? On principle? Like hell you would. Telling a parent yu are refusing to go to mass is telling that parent that they have ailed as a parent and as a christian. No wonder the parent cries.

homerjay2005

Christmas mass is really special. i dont go to mass the other 51 weeks of the year and aint done so in about 12 years (am 27 now), but christmas mass , on christmas eve, is one of the moments of the year. for god sake, its just one 30-40 minutes out of your life and is once a year. you only have one mother and if keeping her happy is not a trait of yours for this one occasion, then that is a bit sad IMO.

and in my opinion, using the church scandles as an excuse is pathetic. you either dont want to go or not, thats your personal choice, you dont need to blame others.

bronte

Respect works both ways. The mother is being very disrespectful of the OPs wishes and beliefs.

Tusky

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Christmas mass is really special. i dont go to mass the other 51 weeks of the year and aint done so in about 12 years (am 27 now), but christmas mass , on christmas eve, is one of the moments of the year. for god sake, its just one 30-40 minutes out of your life and is once a year. you only have one mother and if keeping her happy is not a trait of yours for this one occasion, then that is a bit sad IMO.

and in my opinion, using the church scandles as an excuse is pathetic. you either dont want to go or not, thats your personal choice, you dont need to blame others.

This post annoys me. By attending mass, on Christmas or any other day, you are supporting the institution of the Catholic Church. I dont believe in the teaching of the Catholic church and I dont like them as an institution. I would not attend church to make my mother (she isnt religious so its not an issue) or anyone else happy and neither should the OP.

Moomoo1

bronte wrote: »

Respect works both ways. The mother is being very disrespectful of the OPs wishes and beliefs.

it's all about compromises, and to me for her to go to mass just this one day in a year would have been a great compromise.

star-pants

Moomoo1 wrote: »

it's all about compromises, and to me for her to go to mass just this one day in a year would have been a great compromise.

You could apply that to anything though.
Should a vegetarian eat meat one day a year just because their mother didn't believe in vegetarianism?
Should someone who doesn't like to drink have some one day a year because their mother believes in celebrating with a drink?
What if the OP had converted to another religion and thus going to mass was against their new beliefs? Should they give their belief up one day a year just to please one person?

the OP doesn't want to go to church and shouldn't have to IMO, especially not if someones using emotional blackmail to get them to do it.

dsmythy

You'd swear walking into a church will cause you to come over all religious. You don't have to believe anything being said or give any donations if you don't want. If it makes your mother happy then just go the once a year at least. She won't be here forever you know. Let her enjoy your company in church just this once a year.

Denerick

star-pants wrote: »

You could apply that to anything though.
Should a vegetarian eat meat one day a year just because their mother didn't believe in vegetarianism?
Should someone who doesn't like to drink have some one day a year because their mother believes in celebrating with a drink?
What if the OP had converted to another religion and thus going to mass was against their new beliefs? Should they give their belief up one day a year just to please one person?

the OP doesn't want to go to church and shouldn't have to IMO, especially not if someones using emotional blackmail to get them to do it.

Don't fall into that logical trap; going to mass shouldn't hurt your principles in any way if you're an atheist/agnostic - its a little like saying you'd refuse to go to a friends funeral or wedding, if its held in a church/synagogue/Mosque/temple/whatever. You're going to humour your mother for Christs sake. Have a bit of heart - if she's crying then its obviously hurting her and causing unnecessary drama around Christmas time. Its your mother for **** sake - its the woman who went through unimaginable pain and expense to bring you into this world, fed you, clothed you, loved you, and the OP can't turn off his ears for half on hour on one day of the year??? Get things into perspective people.

This thread genuinely has got me into a bad mood. This is Christmas, its long being a secular holiday based around the family. If you can't humour your mother on this day of all days then you really should be ashamed of yourself.

P.S- What is the big deal anyway? I was in mass last night and the priest came out and said 'none of you would be here if you didn't have faith in God'. At least 10% of the congregation smirked to themselves. Honestly, this thread really does amount to ego ****. Life is full of compromise, and if your living at home at 26 years of age, one day of mass won't ****ing kill you.

star-pants

My point *was* that you shouldn't be forced to do something you really don't want to, and don't believe in.
Yeah it's only mass, yeah it's only an hour or whatever it is, but if it's something you really abhore/ would upset you to go, then you shouldn't have to go.

I love my mother and I'd go to the ends of the earth for her, but if she threw a hissy fit because I didn't do something I really didn't want to, then her actions wouldn't make me more inclined to do it.

Denerick

star-pants wrote: »

My point *was* that you shouldn't be forced to do something you really don't want to, and don't believe in.
Yeah it's only mass, yeah it's only an hour or whatever it is, but if it's something you really abhore/ would upset you to go, then you shouldn't have to go.

I love my mother and I'd go to the ends of the earth for her, but if she threw a hissy fit because I didn't do something I really didn't want to, then her actions wouldn't make me more inclined to do it.

Considering the woman endured (No doubt) a teared vagina, months of agony and distress, along with years of financial pain and emotional effort to bring you into this world, I think she's entitled to throw as many hissy fits as she bloody well wants to.

star-pants

Denerick wrote: »

Considering the woman endured (No doubt) a teared vagina, months of agony and distress, along with years of financial pain and emotional effort to bring you into this world, I think she's entitled to throw as many hissy fits as she bloody well wants to.

I'm sorry but you can't play the 'I gave birth to you and brought you up least you could do is go to mass for me' card.
yes love your mother, have respect for her, do what you can for her - but she too should have respect for you.
The OP has said that she blackmailed them for 4 years to go to mass, and at the age of 21 stopped going, every year she tries to guilt trip and it doesn't work. So clearly she's realised that her child does not want to go, why would a mother FORCE her child to do something they really really really don't want to do. If it meant that much to her, and she really wanted them there, then she'd sit down and explain how much it would mean to her, she wouldn't throw a hissy fit.

oh and not all women tear when they give birth.

Denerick

star-pants wrote: »

I'm sorry but you can't play the 'I gave birth to you and brought you up least you could do is go to mass for me' card.
yes love your mother, have respect for her, do what you can for her - but she too should have respect for you.
The OP has said that she blackmailed them for 4 years to go to mass, and at the age of 21 stopped going, every year she tries to guilt trip and it doesn't work. So clearly she's realised that her child does not want to go, why would a mother FORCE her child to do something they really really really don't want to do. If it meant that much to her, and she really wanted them there, then she'd sit down and explain how much it would mean to her, she wouldn't throw a hissy fit.

Tough luck. We all have to do things we really really really don't want to do. I don't want to help my dad chop sticks but I'll do because he asked me, and he's my dad. I don't want to clean up the worktop, but I do it because my Mum asked me, and she's my mum. We all do things we don't like, its one of the principal qualities of adulthood. Principles which involve upsetting your mother is one I could do without, to be honest.

star-pants

Denerick wrote: »

Tough luck. We all have to do things we really really really don't want to do. I don't want to help my dad chop sticks but I'll do because he asked me, and he's my dad. I don't want to clean up the worktop, but I do it because my Mum asked me, and she's my mum. We all do things we don't like, its one of the principal qualities of adulthood. Principles which involve upsetting your mother is one I could do without, to be honest.

I'm aware of having to do things we don't like to do for people that we love. But if they're people that we love, if we say no, they shouldn't go nuts over it is my point.
I do stuff that I'm asked to do even if I don't really want to do it. But I know that if I said no (on occasions I have) they'll go 'ok' and understand.

It's not the fact that it's only an hour of mass, it's the fact their mother puts this pressure on them every year, knowing they don't want to and won't go, but puts them through the stress of it. The OP has sat down (like an adult) and calmly stated their case, the mother has acted like a child and had a fit.

Ickle Magoo

OP,

You've stated your case and now your mother just has to learn to accept it.

If someone came on here and said their mother was wailing and gnashing their teeth because they stated they wouldn't be voting for their mothers favourite political party we would all think the mother a fruit-loop. I don't know why someone's personal faith gives them the right to demand others think likewise or should even pretend to think likewise. Giving in to a tantrum is a dangerous presendent to set, whether the thrower be 3 or 43. Best of luck.

krudler

Denerick wrote: »

Tough luck. We all have to do things we really really really don't want to do. I don't want to help my dad chop sticks but I'll do because he asked me, and he's my dad. I don't want to clean up the worktop, but I do it because my Mum asked me, and she's my mum. We all do things we don't like, its one of the principal qualities of adulthood. Principles which involve upsetting your mother is one I could do without, to be honest.

Chopping sticks and cleaning is helping out, its not doing something you're morally against purely to placate a hissy fit throwing mother, if the op wrote she was throwing a tantrum (and thats what this is) over her mother not wanting to do something SHE was opposed to, nobody here would be siding with her, also the "they brought you into the world" argument means nothing, nobody asks to be born, pain, monetary problems and stress go with having kids, if you dont want those aspects, dont have kids, simple as

browndress

browndress wrote: »

Being an adult means making your own decisions and supporting yourself. If you can't manage to live in your own household then you are not an adult. You are a dependant. You do as the head of the household demands. If you were destitute on the streets and you were offered a bed or a meal by a religious order, would you refuse? On principle? Like hell you would. Telling a parent yu are refusing to go to mass is telling that parent that they have ailed as a parent and as a christian. No wonder the parent cries.

I pretty much agree with this. If you are expecting a parent to pay for your car insurance (not even essential) and put a roof over your head when you're an adult, I think you do have an obligation to just go. I don't live at home and haven't for years, but if it meant that much to my mam, I'd probably go at Christmas, even though I agree with you about the Catholic Church. I spent one Christmas with an OH's parents and I went to mass with them, as they really wanted me to go and I felt that refusing would be disrespectful, as would going with a sour face on me and making it clear I didn't want to be there. My OH is an atheist and he will go to mass the odd time if his parents ask him to, as it means so much to them. Sometimes we need to put other people ahead of ourselves, that's what adults do. You don't seem very mature, IMO. If you feel so strongly that you won't even accompany your mother to mass once a year, you should move out and fend for yourself. My parents wouldn't have tolerated your attitude past the age of 16.

krudler

People arent seeing the bigger picture here imo, going just to placate the mother is enabling controlling behaviour, and this attitude of "sure its only once a year" is all the catholic church needs to show people do still care about them regardless of how many child abuse allegations are around. Put it this way, if you joined a social club that was as responsible for as much child abuse, misogyny, homophobia, corruption, fear and basically keeping a nation in the dark ages for decades, would people be ok with it? but because mass is so ingrained into the Irish society we're supposed to look past all this and keep quiet, well sorry but keeping quiet is what got the church where it is in the first place, nobody spoke up for the thousands of abused children throughout the past century until now with the Murphy report as the priests had such a position of unchallenged power in towns, those days are long gone and the more people who refuse to attend mass because of this the better, OP let us know what happened

Moomoo1

star-pants wrote: »

You could apply that to anything though.
Should a vegetarian eat meat one day a year just because their mother didn't believe in vegetarianism?
Should someone who doesn't like to drink have some one day a year because their mother believes in celebrating with a drink?
What if the OP had converted to another religion and thus going to mass was against their new beliefs? Should they give their belief up one day a year just to please one person?

the OP doesn't want to go to church and shouldn't have to IMO, especially not if someones using emotional blackmail to get them to do it.

no, you cannot apply this to anything. It makes no difference to someone what someone else eats and/or drinks. It does make a difference when someone close to you won't go to you to an event that's one of the highlights of Christmas for you.

star-pants

Moomoo1 wrote: »

no, you cannot apply this to anything. It makes no difference to someone what someone else eats and/or drinks. It does make a difference when someone close to you won't go to you to an event that's one of the highlights of Christmas for you.

I'm not going to continue arguing on this thread, I've made my opinion clear and everyone is entitled to that.
Most people who are pushing for the OP to go to mass are focused on what the mother wants, not what the OP wants or the emotional pressure the mothers putting them under. They've not gone for years, the mother should either stop pressuring them, or sit them down and explain how much it would mean to them - the answer is not to throw a hissy fit.

bronte

Why are the op's beliefs and ideals less important than the mothers?
It's more than a matter of turning up at a Church and putting in an appearance.
It's the principle.
The mother has behaved horribly immaturely and has thrown strops to attempt to get her way.
I'm vegetarian 16 years and would be horrified if my mother expected me to eat meat today
I don't know why people get all soft because of someone's religion.
If she loves her child, she'll find a way to respect their difference in beliefs.

krudler

Moomoo1 wrote: »

no, you cannot apply this to anything. It makes no difference to someone what someone else eats and/or drinks. It does make a difference when someone close to you won't go to you to an event that's one of the highlights of Christmas for you.

Wait, what? so if my girlfriend was a vegetarian and i told her it would mean a lot to me if she ate a steak once a year, she should just do it to keep me happy? thats bs to be honest, and since most supposed catholics in this country are complete hypocrites and wouldnt dream of setting foot in a church the other 364 days of the year its refreshing that someone stands by their beliefs

Moomoo1

star-pants wrote: »

I'm not going to continue arguing on this thread, I've made my opinion clear and everyone is entitled to that.
Most people who are pushing for the OP to go to mass are focused on what the mother wants, not what the OP wants or the emotional pressure the mothers putting them under. They've not gone for years, the mother should either stop pressuring them, or sit them down and explain how much it would mean to them - the answer is not to throw a hissy fit.

the problem imho is, that normal human relations have become over-analysed and over-theorised. It should be really easy: A makes what is a clearly reasonable request, and B, being a relative of A, and it being a holiday, agrees to it. Then on another occasion maybe the roles can be reversed.

But people just insist on making those things unnecessarily complicated for no reason.

Moomoo1

krudler wrote: »

Wait, what? so if my girlfriend was a vegetarian and i told her it would mean a lot to me if she ate a steak once a year, she should just do it to keep me happy? thats bs to be honest, and since most supposed catholics in this country are complete hypocrites and wouldnt dream of setting foot in a church the other 364 days of the year its refreshing that someone stands by their beliefs

you didn't read my post. I said that it's not reasonable to make people eat things, since it makes little real difference to you what someone else eats. Yet with this being Christmas, and the mother wanting to make a family occasion out of going to church, it clearly makes a whole lot of difference to her. That makes her request reasonable.

iguana

Moomoo1 wrote: »

A makes what is a clearly reasonable request,

How is it reasonable to expect somebody to worship a being they don't believe in, while paying lip service to a criminal organisation?

Denerick

iguana wrote: »

How is it reasonable to expect somebody to worship a being they don't believe in, while paying lip service to a criminal organisation?

:rolleyes:

Anyway...

People are losing sight of the issue. The issue is that its Christmas and the OP has made his mother upset by refusing to go to mass. The real issue is where you draw the line on what is reasonable and what is not. Personally, a half hour in a cold building with closed ears isn't breaking any principles, and its nothing to get oh-so-dramatic (*Whataboutmyhumanrights!!!!!*) about. But whatever. I don't blame people for not giving a **** about making their parents upset on Christmas, its all part of this disgusting selfish 'mé fein' Celtic Ireland society we created.

iguana

Denerick wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Anyway...

What, so the organisation didn't systematically cover up child abuse for decades? They didn't move known child abusers into positions where they were able to continue with abuse? They didn't lock up women and sell their children while working the women for profit?

Those are all criminal acts. Not only criminal acts but horrific, disgusting, inhumane acts. Not committed by individuals but by the organisation as a whole.

Kimia

This makes me so mad.

So I'm Jewish and I want my mother to go to synagogue with me once a year as dictated by me, and if she doesn't want to go (because she's very clearly non-Jewish), I should throw a FIT and become hysterical and emotionally blackmail her into it?

My god how selfish. I thought that the point of Christianity was to respect and love thy neighbour, not force them into something that will make them uncomfortable at best and downright hostile at worst, just because you said so?

How is that being a good Catholic? Is that not extremely selfish and contrary to what the church teaches?

As said before, if the mother had respect and love for her child, she would not use emotional blackmail to force her into something she's clearly morally uncomfortable with.

And my god it makes me sick when people play the 'she brought you into the world and went through pain & torture and misery when you were born and was broke all the time so can you not do whatever she says to somehow appease her for the burden of motherhood F*CK OFF - what a ridiculous argument. So if I have kids I can pretty much get them to do whatever I want by whatever means necessary when they're older just because I went through childbirth?

Childbirth breeds children not slaves.

The Sweeper

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Christmas mass is really special. i dont go to mass the other 51 weeks of the year and aint done so in about 12 years (am 27 now), but christmas mass , on christmas eve, is one of the moments of the year. for god sake, its just one 30-40 minutes out of your life and is once a year. you only have one mother and if keeping her happy is not a trait of yours for this one occasion, then that is a bit sad IMO.

and in my opinion, using the church scandles as an excuse is pathetic. you either dont want to go or not, thats your personal choice, you dont need to blame others.

I'm not religious. I have a lot of respect for people who have found space in their lives for faith. I try to respect their religions, their belief systems and their rituals of worship.

Subsequently, I wouldn't go to a mosque and go through the motions of a call to prayer; I wouldn't go to a synagogue and go through the motions of their assembly, and I don't to go christian churches and go through the motions of sunday service or mass.

Whatever about being a witness at an event in a holy place, I find something deeply offensive about people going to a place of worship and mouthing words they don't believe, about things they pour scorn on.

And as for people who go to mass once a year and go up and take holy communion, with no intention of returning to their faith, but just for the look of it in front of the neighbours? Just because you're comfortable disrespecting a religion because you were once raised in it, that doesn't make it any less disrespectful.

Johnny Giles

You are 100% right. I feel the burning of the Cathedral in Longford may have been in relation to the abuse. These priests are child abusers and should be taken out and hanged by their genitalia. They are a disgrace and the fact that some covered it up is even worse. Not all priests are like this though.

Don't feel guilty about it. The church has lost a lot of respect and you are not the only one repulsed by their disgusting touchings of youngsters in this country.

Denerick

Kimia wrote: »

This makes me so mad.

So I'm Jewish and I want my mother to go to synagogue with me once a year as dictated by me, and if she doesn't want to go (because she's very clearly non-Jewish), I should throw a FIT and become hysterical and emotionally blackmail her into it?

My god how selfish. I thought that the point of Christianity was to respect and love thy neighbour, not force them into something that will make them uncomfortable at best and downright hostile at worst, just because you said so?

How is that being a good Catholic? Is that not extremely selfish and contrary to what the church teaches?

As said before, if the mother had respect and love for her child, she would not use emotional blackmail to force her into something she's clearly morally uncomfortable with.

And my god it makes me sick when people play the 'she brought you into the world and went through pain & torture and misery when you were born and was broke all the time so can you not do whatever she says to somehow appease her for the burden of motherhood F*CK OFF - what a ridiculous argument. So if I have kids I can pretty much get them to do whatever I want by whatever means necessary when they're older just because I went through childbirth?

Childbirth breeds children not slaves.

My point was that its Christmas day and its very clearly a one time a year thing with his mum. Don't do the whole religious thing with me, I'm agnostic and have no time for the church. The fact of the matter is that its ONE ****ING DAY OF THE YEAR. Your mother asks you to do it this one time, its obviously very important to her, and not very important to you. Whats the big deal? The world is full of hypocrites and adult life is basically one long descent into hypocrisy, going to mass one day a year to humour your mother will not kill you, and its very clearly not an endorsement of the church. And besides, he's 26 and still living at home. The least he can do is humour her one day of the year. Its selfish.

And as for the whole 'the church is criminal' lark, I'm not even going to bother. Every single charity in this country owes at least some of its origins to the Catholic church. There are thousands of kind and decent priests around the country - and of course many corrupt and disgusting perverts. The only reason I'm in any way partial to the church is because one priest went out of his way to help my family a number of years ago after a tragic ordeal, so I always get sick when people try to paste the whole priesthood as disgusting because of these scandals continuously coming out. There is bad and good in every organisation.

Moomoo1

iguana wrote: »

How is it reasonable to expect somebody to worship a being they don't believe in, while paying lip service to a criminal organisation?

going to mass does not require you to worship anything. Nor does it equate giving 'lip service'.

Moomoo1

iguana wrote: »

What, so the organisation didn't systematically cover up child abuse for decades? They didn't move known child abusers into positions where they were able to continue with abuse? They didn't lock up women and sell their children while working the women for profit?

Those are all criminal acts. Not only criminal acts but horrific, disgusting, inhumane acts. Not committed by individuals but by the organisation as a whole.

the way to fight this is in the media, in the courts, by public denonciation and by going on the streets. Not by upsetting your loved ones.

iguana

Denerick wrote: »

And as for the whole 'the church is criminal' lark, I'm not even going to bother. Every single charity in this country owes at least some of its origins to the Catholic church.

I have in my life worked for Oxfam, Barnardos, Amnesty International and the Red Ribbon Project. Not one of them has links in anyway at all to the Catholic church. Barnardos is a charity with foundations in Christianity but Thomas Barnardo was a member of the Plymouth Brethern and off-shoot of the Church of England.

A few other secular charities operating in Ireland are; Rehab, MSF (Doctors Without Borders), The Samaritans (don't let the name fool you, they were a nameless organisation which was described as Good Samaritans in a press article and the name stuck) and Age Concern. You obviously haven't the slightest clue about the claims you are making.

As for the idea that some Catholics being involved in charities somehow canceling out the atrocities carried out and allowed to carried out by the Catholic church. Well under Hitler the German economy improved enormously, public services were greatly improved, the Autobahn was built, the trains ran on time. He promoted an environment which promoted scientific experimentation and invention - much of modern technology would not exist today if it wasn't for Hitler, his promotion of science and his expansionist policies which led to WW2. And the fact of the matter is that there were thousands of Nazi's who were good parents/spouses/neighbours, many probably helped old ladies cross the street. So I think bearing in mind all of the pretty good things Hitler has done we should all say no more about the holocaust.

Denerick

Denerick wrote: »

My point was that its Christmas day and its very clearly a one time a year thing with his mum. Don't do the whole religious thing with me, I'm agnostic and have no time for the church. The fact of the matter is that its ONE ****ING DAY OF THE YEAR. Your mother asks you to do it this one time, its obviously very important to her, and not very important to you. Whats the big deal? The world is full of hypocrites and adult life is basically one long descent into hypocrisy, going to mass one day a year to humour your mother will not kill you, and its very clearly not an endorsement of the church. And besides, he's 26 and still living at home. The least he can do is humour her one day of the year. Its selfish.

No, it's not selfish. You (by which I mean everyone arguing your side) are trying to guilt him into going by playing the "OMG SHE SUFFERED A RIPPED VAGINA FOR YOU, YOU OWE HER" card.

Why should he humour his mother? Does he really owe her some kind of favour because he lives at home? No, I don't think so; his parents never did him a favour by bringing him up and giving him a home, they volunteered to have children and to rear him. They knew what it would involve, and they knew that one day he would become an individual with independent thought. He owes them absolutely nothing. I don't tolerate emotional, pissy carry-on from my mother when I feel she is wrong and neither should anybody.

Swarles Barkley

It seems that the posts so far fall in to two main camps:

1. Keep the peace - Suck it up and go to mass.
2. Stand your ground - If you give in on this what will be next.

To be fair I can see the logic behind both arguments but if I was the OP I would be opting for the second one.

I have been in much the same position myself, thankfully my mother didn't launch into the waterworks but there was definitely guilt tripping a plenty. I think to put an end to this you need to remain definite on the no attending at Christmas time. If you flip flop and sometimes go and sometimes don't, then every Christmas will become a battle of wits with your Mother. It shouldn't be a game that she may or may not win, rather it is a lifestyle choice that you have made.

She'll accept it eventually.