A Christmas Message from Santa George ....

PaulBrewer

http://blog.mixonline.com/mixblog/2009/10/14/massenburg-on-mp3-and-its-effect-on-music/

Wise words from George Massenburg

(Ironic too that the quality of this is shyt !)


Thanks to Engineer Philip Begley for the link.

studiorat

This was in response to Johnny Greenwood (who plays with yer man Radiohead) who said quality didn't really matter as everybody was listening to MP3.

I tried this myself, what Massenberg did was play the difference between the two systems Mp3 and PCM format. The thing is that when the whole MP3 is playing you cannot hear the distortion that's heard in his experiment, because it's masked, it's there but we can't hear it. So I'm not really sure of the point of what he's doing here.

So although what's left sounds horrible it when it's in the Mp3 as a whole you won't hear it. However what it does do is point out the differences or non-differences between different compression systems.

Aridstarling

I'm sorry but this sounds for the most part like an old man ranting about the state of modern music. I totally agree with most of what he's saying as far as the importance of workflow, methodology and performance are concerned but to say that modern bands don't live up to the bands of the 60's and 70's is just wrong and insulting. He's disregarding so many great acts out there right now. He asks where the next "great act" is going to come from, well, they've probably been playing to small enough venues all around the world for years, they just don't fit the description for a Kings of Leon/Snow Patrol/Coldplay style world takeover. Its sad that a man of his undoubted talent would be so close-minded. To take Britney Spears as representative of modern music is a sign the man is well out of touch.

Like I said, I 100% concur with his opinions on MP3 encoding, the importance of capturing a bands performance naturally and all that, its just this old man nostalgia bull**** that wrecks my head.

PaulBrewer

Aridstarling wrote: »

but to say that modern bands don't live up to the bands of the 60's and 70's is just wrong and insulting..

Based on what Arid ? Have you worked with any bands from the 60s and 70s ?
He has, and the 80s, 90s and dare I say 'noughties' ... so his opinions are built on experience, not conjecture.

As well as being a renowned producer engineer he's also credited with 'inventing' parametric eq and has designed and built some of the finest audio equipment ever.

That in itself doesn't mean he's correct - but one would hope that given his position within the industry his ideas would be examined in depth to try to fully understand his, very educated, opinion.

His core point seemed to me to be saying that the circumstances within the music industry aren't conducive to great bands coming through - and the MP3 thing was indicative of that, which seems like a reasonable point.

For YOU to go on a youngman rant might be the silly thing ...

Aridstarling

Worked with them? No. But I have listened to records from the period quite a bit. I think its wrong to say that music from that time, clearly Mr. Massenburg's preferred era, is objectively better than modern music.

I agree with his points about MP3 compression and how it represents some modern musical trends. But to tar the entire modern musical era with the same brush is very narrow minded. Its viewpoints like this, among respected professionals, that do so much damage to popular opinion. If you're constantly being told, by people you admire or respect, that there is no good modern music out there, you're not going to make an effort to find any. This is the root of the problem. By defining modern music by its lowest common denominator Massenburg is doing to music what he is lambasting people for doing with encoding. I have a lot of respect for the man himself, for all he has achieved in this industry, but he is disregarding so much great art in what he is saying there. There have been too many great records to name in the last 15 years that contradict what he's saying here.

studiorat

The thing is, vinyl and tape sounded crap in their early days. Digital sounded crap in it's early days too.

He is kind of right though in saying that record copmanies just aren't supporting the development of rock musicians anymore. There was a time where they would pay for the development of acts where you might be signed for two years before you would record an album. You would get to work with experienced producers along the way and if you were good enough the record company would then pay for an album for you, and support it's release. Back then recording an album on your own was seen as vanity publishing, and for the most, it was.

And musicians on the whole are not playing regularly enough, pop and rock musicians are suffering because of this. Trad, classical and Jazzers are playing a couple of times a week in public. Rock musicians might do two or three practices a week where they might play a set of twelve songs, these guys are usually paying to play their own music somewhere instead of being paid to play covers of someone elses music. And ironically enough most would look down their noses at the guy who plays covers.

Ask any of the regular producers or engineers here and they will tell you that they nearly always tweek a track in regards to timing and tuning. I really couldn't say for sure because I don't work with enough young bands, but I have a feeling that the level of musicianship is declining in general. Perhaps not for certain genres where musicianship has always been important like certain types of Heavy Metal, but for the indie thing, it sounds to me like the playing has gotten worse. Maybe it's just the current playing style maybe it's not...

Aridstarling

I would agree to an extent that musical ability is in decline, certainly in popular music. There are many of the worlds biggest modern pop bands that can barely string four chords together. Its the ultimate result of the combination of the regressive interpretation of punk attitude where ability isn't that important and modern recording techniques being used to fix timing and tuning. There's no real role models for mainstream pop musicianship anymore. The bassist from Kaiser Chiefs is hardly up to the standard of James Jamerson for instance. If someone starting out writing songs is emulating what they hear on the radio, they won't get much beyond three chords and verse/chorus/verse. I'm not knocking simple songs, I'm far from a virtuoso myself and the same goes for many of my favourite bands, but there's a level of craft that is missing from the modern pop song.

Your point about not playing in public enough is very true, many bands in the Dublin area, the easiest one to have a gig in, might play once a month, if that. It stems from undiscerning promoters, lazy bands, lack of decent affordable venues, and indeed, lack of an audience at the end of it all. It makes it very difficult and expensive to maintain any worthwhile gigging effort in this country.

PaulBrewer

studiorat wrote: »

.

He is kind of right though in saying that record copmanies just aren't supporting the development of rock musicians anymore.

The above was what I got out of George's Vid.