Priest: 'Shoplifting sometimes better option

Cookie_Monster

So its OK to cover up child abuse and now its OK to steal, WTF is wrong with these people:eek:

IT IS certainly against the laws of Ireland and, most Christians would say, against the laws of God as well.

But according to one Church of England vicar, shoplifting is acceptable - as long as you steal from chain stores.

Father Tim Jones, parish priest of St Lawrence and St Hilda in York, broke off from the traditional Nativity story to say that sometimes shoplifting was the only option for poor families and certainly better than "prostitution, mugging or burglary" as a way of making money.

Mr Jones, who previously worked as a prison chaplain, told his congregation: "My advice, as a Christian priest, is to shoplift. I do not offer such advice because I think that stealing is a good thing, or because I think it is harmless, for it is neither.

I would ask that they do not steal from small, family businesses, but from large national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices. I would ask them not to take any more than they need, for any longer than they need."

He said he offered the advice "with a heavy heart", and wished society would recognise that bureaucratic ineptitude and systemic delay had created an "invitation and incentive to crime for people struggling to cope".

Mr Jones cited an example of an ex-prisoner who had received less than £100, (€112) including a crisis loan, in the six weeks since his release.

He said his advice did not contradict the Bible's eighth commandment, not to steal, saying God's love for the poor and despised outweighed the property rights of the rich.

He added: "Let my words not be misrepresented as a simplistic call for people to shoplift. "The observation that shoplifting is the best option that some people are left with is a grim indictment of who we are.

"Rather, this is a call for our society no longer to treat its most vulnerable people with indifference and contempt."

He said that providing "inadequate or clumsy social support" was "monumental, catastrophic folly".

But the Venerable Richard Seed, Archdeacon of York said shoplifting could never be seen as a last resort.

He said: "The Church of England does not advise anyone to shoplift, or break the law in any way.

"Father Tim Jones is raising important issues about the difficulties people face when benefits are not forthcoming, but shoplifting is not the way to overcome these difficulties. There are many organisations and charities working with people in need, and the Citizens' Advice Bureau is a good first place to call."

Sunday's incident is not the first time the priest has courted controversy. Last year Mr Jones became so incensed at the sight of Playboy stationery aimed at children for sale, he swept the items off the shelf of his local Stationery Box store and stormed out of the shop with his seven-year-old daughter.

And in 2007 he called a halt to children's yoga classes which were being held in his church hall, claiming the form of exercise has its roots in Hinduism and was a "sham".

SV

I think, when taken into context, he's completely right.

Cookie_Monster

SV wrote: »

I think, when taking into context, he's completely right.

How, one law for some, a different one for others?

What does it matter who owns the property. Stealing is stealing regardless

Sleepy

"shoplifters of the world: unite and take over!!"

markok84

crafty protestants.

GavRedKing

God has no place in orgainsed crime

AnonoBoy

And that's why Sainsbury's ran their famous 'Vicars Out' campaign of '97.

Duggy747

Hmm, after reading this and going out on a shoplifting bonanza I've ended up with 7 dead people on my hands.

What's the church's stance on this?

Fratton Fred

I think what he was saying is that it is better to shoplift from a massive retailer than it is to mug people or prostitute yourself to earn a few quid.

Sadly, I think this is more a reflection on the times than it is a reflection on his Christian values.

As for his other acts, I completely agree with him about playboy stuff marketed at children, not so sure about the Yoga classes though.

extra-ordinary_

Sunday's incident is not the first time the priest has courted controversy. Last year Mr Jones became so incensed at the sight of Playboy stationery aimed at children for sale, he swept the items off the shelf of his local Stationery Box store and stormed out of the shop with his seven-year-old daughter.

+1

Cookie_Monster

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

+1

You stormed out with his 7 year old daughter too?
I'm ringing the fuzz on you mate

Cookie_Monster

betafrog wrote: »

I love the way it opens with



And then continues

sure have to put something else up, everyone is sick of hear of how 3cm of snow has stopped the whole country dead

neilthefunkeone

Cant afford an Astin Martin...

"But you Honor, God said it was cool"

The Saint

The Catholic church isn't the Anglican church. Not aware of the Anglican church covering up child abuse.

ScumLord

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

How, one law for some, a different one for others?

He wasn't saying that, he seemed to be highlighting the fact stealing is survival for some people and if your going to steal, steal from people that can afford it.

Saadyst

I don't see anything wrong with what he said. If you were in the situation where your children were crying due to the hunger pangs of only having one or two meals a day - are you saying you would rather let them go hungry than steal a loaf or whatever?

I would rate survival above man-made laws any day of the week. Or when you're starving half to death, perhaps you should pause to consider the impact on the economy and crime rate this will have if you were to steal, not to mention the effect on the bottom line of Dunnes/Tesco.

:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

The Saint wrote: »

The Catholic church isn't the Anglican church. Not aware of the Anglican church covering up child abuse.

It happened sure enough http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1566826/C-of-E-child-abuse-was-ignored-for-decades.html

The CofE eventually handled it well though, but it took some time.

Cookie_Monster

The Saint wrote: »

The Catholic church isn't the Anglican church. Not aware of the Anglican church covering up child abuse.

they're all essentially the same

ejmaztec

Steal his collection box to pay for the goods, then everybody's happy.

greensman

So can we take from his collection plate?.....

jhegarty

betafrog wrote: »

I love the way it opens with



And then continues



What have the laws of Ireland got to do with a Church of England Vicar from York?

He didn't say anything about.

Someone changed the article before posting :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/priest-thou-shalt-steal-from-large-businesses-1847220.html

The Saint

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It happened sure enough http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1566826/C-of-E-child-abuse-was-ignored-for-decades.html

The CofE eventually handled it well though, but it took some time.

There you go. You learn something new everyday.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they're all essentially the same

Tell that to Henry VIII, the pope and Ian Paisley.

Cookie_Monster

The Saint wrote: »

Tell that to Henry VIII, the pope and Ian Paisley.

:rolleyes:
it's all Christianity

Cookie_Monster

jhegarty wrote: »

He didn't say anything about.

Someone changed the article before posting :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/priest-thou-shalt-steal-from-large-businesses-1847220.html

I took it from the Irish Indo, they must have changed it themselves

faceman

Can't say I disagree with the vicar. Makes sense what he is saying.

NothingMan

If you were in the situation where your children were crying due to the hunger pangs of only having one or two meals a day - are you saying you would rather let them go hungry than steal a loaf or whatever?

So what if my family didn't like bread? Say they liked cigarettes. And say instead of giving them the cigarettes I sold them to them for a price that was practically giving them away?

Cookie_Monster

NothingMan wrote: »

So what if my family didn't like bread? Say they liked cigarettes. And say instead of giving them the cigarettes I sold them to them for a price that was practically giving them away?

Thats fine that is

Prof.Badass

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So its OK to cover up child abuse and now its OK to steal, WTF is wrong with these people:eek:

The trolls are emerging from their caves as we speak :pac:.

Buceph

Just like Rowan Williams with the Sharia Law business, a priest makes a perfectly sensible statement, then everyone takes it out of context, makes kneejerk reactions and woe betides the thinking world.


As for all of you saying stealing is stealing, what about the 100's that were locked up in Ireland's history by the British for stealing for the very same reasons that vicar is highlighting.

Fratton Fred

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they're all essentially the same

except that Anglican clergy marry and have sex, which means they don't walk around dragging their testicles and going slowly insane.

ever wondered why Nuns are so ****ing miserable. everyone needs a good seeing to everynow and then to get the happy hormones going.

Buceph

Fratton Fred wrote: »

ever wondered why Nuns are so ****ing miserable. everyone needs a good seeing to everynow and then to get the happy hormones going.

I know men aren't allowed "spill their seed" but it's hardly like an ovary drops out of a woman every time she has a fiddle with herself. So are nuns allowed indulge in self pleasuration?

Mossy Monk

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So its OK to cover up child abuse

The Church of England are at it too?

Fratton Fred

Buceph wrote: »

I know men aren't allowed "spill their seed" but it's hardly like an ovary drops out of a woman every time she has a fiddle with herself. So are nuns allowed indulge in self pleasuration?

They are married to the lord, so it would be adultery. Although I'm sure the lord doesn't mind watching two nuns, a rabbit and some whipped cream:D

Dartz

I tried shoplifting once.

It was so heavy it broke the bloody crane.

InReality

I'm delighted that this is getting a bit of publicity.
He's dead right but it hasn't stopped the retailers trying to mis represent what he said and leaving out its context.
I'd be a bit embarrased to be the retailers spokesperson !

Its good food for thought too.

ScumLord

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They are married to the lord, so it would be adultery. Although I'm sure the lord doesn't mind watching two nuns, a rabbit and some whipped cream:D

Since when is masterbation adultry?!! :eek:

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they're all essentially the same

No. one worships statues, prays to dead bodies and has an ordinary man dressed up in a religious costume substituting Christ on earth.

Mike 1972

shoplifting ...certainly better than prostitution.....

Why ?

NothingMan

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Why ?

What about shoplifting a prostitute from a brothel?

sold

SV wrote: »

I think, when taking into context, he's completely right.

Correct. People too often read the headline and not the articule. Theoretically there is nothing wrong with stealing food to survive.However it todays society with social welfare and charity help these is an alternative to stealing.

Run_to_da_hills

sold wrote: »

However it todays society with social welfare and charity help these is an alternative to stealing.

With the recent savage attacks on social welfare payments we could possibly see a surge in shoplifting.

Mike 1972

More than likely yes (along with crime in general)

SV

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Why ?

One is stealing goods, the other is selling your body..

If you can't see the difference then sorry, can't help ya

Mike 1972

SV wrote: »

One is stealing goods, the other is selling renting your body..

One is hurting someone by depriving them of their property the other is providing a service.

And I didnt saw there wasnt a difference I asked WHY Prostitution is considered worse than stealing from shops DO pay attention.......

SV

Mike 1972 wrote: »

One is hurting someone by depriving them of their property the other is providing a service.

And I didnt saw there wasnt a difference I asked WHY Prostitution is considered worse than stealing from shops DO pay attention.......

If you want to use two completely different (and biased) descriptions for them to support your argument then there's no point in even talking to you.

Mike 1972

First off you suggest I said there was no difference between prostitution and theft when I didnt say anything of the kind,

Now you reckon I used.......

SV wrote: »

two completely different (and biased) descriptions for them to support your argument.

?

oppenheimer1

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

No. one worships statues, prays to dead bodies and has an ordinary man dressed up in a religious costume substituting Christ on earth.

Savage attacks, 9 euro hardly constitutes a savage attack.

SV

Mike 1972 wrote: »

First off you suggest I said there was no difference between prostitution and theft when I didnt say anything of the kind,

Now you reckon I used.......



?

lol, calling prostitution 'providing a service' and calling shoplifting 'hurting someone by depriving them of their property ' isn't biased no?
:rolleyes:
It's quite apparent from that you view prostitution as a better way of surviving than shoplifting and you've started the biased descriptions of both early on.

walshb

Nothing has or ever will surprise me about religious people in general. For the most part, they are not living in the world that I am.

Mike 1972

SV wrote: »

lol, calling prostitution 'providing a service' and calling shoplifting 'hurting someone by depriving them of their property ' isn't biased no? .

More like stating facts

SV wrote: »

lolIt's quite apparent from that you view prostitution as a better way of surviving than shoplifting

Apparently I do.

And apparently you disagree but have yet to advance any kind of reasonable line of argument stating why.

Kold

I'm cool with people stealing from millionaires.