big 4 conditions - could they get any worse

DJM PMan

HI all,
Just wondering if any/all of you feel that conditions in the Big 4 could gte any worse - just started as a trainee recently and all I hear on the audit is people giving out non stop, while the seniors continue to look for jobs in industry when their contracts are up - I know things aren't well at all, but it's a little disheartening.....pay has already been cut, people just complain (and rightly so0, seemingly all the time...the firms certainly seem to be burning their bridges as far as the best graduates/accountants are concerned...I know i'm out in 3 years.
thanks

suckslikeafox

DJM PMan wrote: »

HI all,
Just wondering if any/all of you feel that conditions in the Big 4 could gte any worse - just started as a trainee recently and all I hear on the audit is people giving out non stop, while the seniors continue to look for jobs in industry when their contracts are up - I know things aren't well at all, but it's a little disheartening.....pay has already been cut, people just complain (and rightly so0, seemingly all the time...the firms certainly seem to be burning their bridges as far as the best graduates/accountants are concerned...I know i'm out in 3 years.
thanks

Wait for Jan mate, everything turns to **** then. Up until now we've all had xmas to look forward too, nothing left after that except busy season.

Big4 blows, been there a over a year now. Brochures were lies, people were lies, they still lie to you. The blame culture is horrendous as well.

Coldplayer

Are things really that bad?? I turned down a Big 4 for Industry for my training and to be honest for a while there I was thinking I was missing out

suckslikeafox

Coldplayer wrote: »

Are things really that bad?? I turned down a Big 4 for Industry for my training and to be honest for a while there I was thinking I was missing out

If it was a couple of years ago you probably missed out cash-wise but they're near enough parity now. Conditions and morale are through the floor, not to mention the quality of the work.

Industry gives you proper knowledge of accounting and business, audit is a sham industry. No contest IMO.

mickbyrne

For a good accounting and audit training you should try to get experience in small practice. If you have aspirations for a top job in industry then you could get post qualification with the big four which open the doors into plc's in years to come. With this type of background yuou will climb the ladder quickly

Cookie_Monster

I went Industry rather than big 4 and am glad I did. No stupid hours, much much more money. More responsibility in a shorter space of time, rather than being a grad on the ladder for ages.

Would not go near them, ever

The Big Red Button

I just started in Audit in a big four firm a few months ago. I'm actually pretty happy so far, and so are most of the trainees I started with. Ask me again after busy season though!

The money isn't great, but then again the majority of my college class are on the dole, so I'm lucky enough really.

The training we're getting is really excellent, and that's a huge advantage. And the extra study leave and exam support counts for a lot.

From what I hear though, it does depend on the firm.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what you mean by "conditions" though ... and the "blame culture"?

KlausFlouride

Would suspect most places are the same at the moment. Had to take an 8% pay cut on top of pay freeze from last year. Same percentage by the by as management, some of whom earn 10 times what I make. Training non-existent blah blah. Big 4 on the CV will be worth it when you go to get next job. In 3 years time things will swung the way of employees and people with solid experience will be able to name their price.

MrMatisse

chatterpillar wrote: »

I just started in Audit in a big four firm a few months ago. I'm actually pretty happy so far, and so are most of the trainees I started with. Ask me again after busy season though!

The money isn't great, but then again the majority of my college class are on the dole, so I'm lucky enough really.

The training we're getting is really excellent, and that's a huge advantage. And the extra study leave and exam support counts for a lot.

From what I hear though, it does depend on the firm.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what you mean by "conditions" though ... and the "blame culture"?

Give it another 4 months and you will know what the op is on about.

They have so much power now the way the economy is, expect conditions to deteriorate further. You get study leave as you cant study during the year like a normal job as your working such long hours. If you think the training is 'really excellent' i.e so far you have probably totted up financial statements, rang for confims, done fixed assets you really have low expectations.

The Big Red Button

Really-Stressed wrote: »

Give it another 4 months and you will know what the op is on about.

They have so much power now the way the economy is, expect conditions to deteriorate further. You get study leave as you cant study during the year like a normal job as your working such long hours. If you think the training is 'really excellent' i.e so far you have probably totted up financial statements, rang for confims, done fixed assets you really have low expectations.

Well no, obviously I've done all that and a lot more! I'm on about the technical off-the-job training that they bring in external experts to do. That you probably wouldn't get in smaller firms.

Onearmedbandit

suckslikeafox wrote: »

If it was a couple of years ago you probably missed out cash-wise but they're near enough parity now. Conditions and morale are through the floor, not to mention the quality of the work.

Industry gives you proper knowledge of accounting and business, audit is a sham industry. No contest IMO.

I disagree, Industry gives you an insight into that particular sector and that only unless you move jobs. In audit I have worked in media, construction, finance, retail, pharma and recycling each of which have unique properties when it comes to accounting and business.

Yeah its a tough job but its great to have a job right now and hopefully all goes well I will have either a) a chance of promotion through the ranks or b) the network of contacts to get into another challenging job.

Things in the Big4 are hard at the moment but not as hard as those in companies going under.

Audit is not a sham industry, I see people everyday in "industry" accounting for things incorrectly to the point of negligence in some cases, industry may be the easier option but in my opinion you get a well rounded career if you are working in audit.

Pisco Sour

Onearmedbandit wrote: »

Audit is not a sham industry, I see people everyday in "industry" accounting for things incorrectly to the point of negligence in some cases, industry may be the easier option but in my opinion you get a well rounded career if you are working in audit.

Hilarious! No you dont! You do Debtors, Creditors, Stock, Revenue, Cost of Sales etc on each and every job you are on, and the testing is the exact same regardless of how different the client is. I've been on a variety of clients and the work is the exact same, and the working conditions are the exact same (stuffed in a tiny room with truckloads of paper, sometimes with no windows).

The only way you get variety in audit is if you can get experience in BOTH regular audit and financial services audit, in which case there will be a small bit of variety.

ma.long25

Onearmedbandit wrote: »

I disagree, Industry gives you an insight into that particular sector and that only unless you move jobs. In audit I have worked in media, construction, finance, retail, pharma and recycling each of which have unique properties when it comes to accounting and business.

Yeah its a tough job but its great to have a job right now and hopefully all goes well I will have either a) a chance of promotion through the ranks or b) the network of contacts to get into another challenging job.

Things in the Big4 are hard at the moment but not as hard as those in companies going under.

Audit is not a sham industry, I see people everyday in "industry" accounting for things incorrectly to the point of negligence in some cases, industry may be the easier option but in my opinion you get a well rounded career if you are working in audit.

I think One arm bandit it proberely on the HR team of the big four or something.

You sell it so well... exactly like in the graduate recruitment programmes, from my intake about 70% dont like it 15 think its ok and about 15% like it.

You my friend are the tiny minority and fiar play to you.

Onearmedbandit

04072511 wrote: »

Hilarious! No you dont! You do Debtors, Creditors, Stock, Revenue, Cost of Sales etc on each and every job you are on, and the testing is the exact same regardless of how different the client is.

You don't just do the above sections, you sometimes have to deal with pensions, acquisitions and disposals of companies, liquidation, examinership, consolidations, deconsolidations, fraud and going concern issues, i could go on. I have seen all of these in the past year and in a number of different forms.

Not to mention that you have the other side of work such as mentoring, training, secondments and CSR.

04072511 wrote: »

The only way you get variety in audit is if you can get experience in BOTH regular audit and financial services audit, in which case there will be a small bit of variety.

Ha variety in FS where all you do all day is funds, insurance companies and banks? Id stick with what I have thanks.

ma.long25 wrote: »

I think One arm bandit it proberely on the HR team of the big four or something.

You sell it so well... exactly like in the graduate recruitment programmes, from my intake about 70% dont like it 15 think its ok and about 15% like it.

You my friend are the tiny minority and fiar play to you.

I never said I liked it, its a hard job and sometimes the bad days outweigh the good days but Im just happy to have a job at the moment.

Onearmedbandit

Onearmedbandit wrote: »

You don't just do the above sections, you sometimes have to deal with pensions, acquisitions and disposals of companies, liquidation, examinership, consolidations, deconsolidations, fraud and going concern issues, i could go on. I have seen all of these in the past year and in a number of different forms.

I'm doing all the above and all this at the moment too. The joys of being an accountant in a failed multinational.

m19

Hi, sorry to write in about a topic not intended for this thread but need some advice,
i'm filling in my cao very soon and considered doing a BA(HONS) in accounting,
athough i took business for my leaving instead, do you think this will make the course more difficult? also what is the course like in general?
all advice immensely appreciated.

Pisco Sour

m19 wrote: »

Hi, sorry to write in about a topic not intended for this thread but need some advice,
i'm filling in my cao very soon and considered doing a BA(HONS) in accounting,
athough i took business for my leaving instead, do you think this will make the course more difficult? also what is the course like in general?
all advice immensely appreciated.

Here's an idea: Why not start a new thread about this rather than taking this one off topic?! :rolleyes:

ma.long25

m19 wrote: »

Hi, sorry to write in about a topic not intended for this thread but need some advice,
i'm filling in my cao very soon and considered doing a BA(HONS) in accounting,
athough i took business for my leaving instead, do you think this will make the course more difficult? also what is the course like in general?
all advice immensely appreciated.

Yeah you will be at a major disadvantage if you didnt do leaving cert accounting.

However if you work really hard in first year to master the basics ull find it ok....

LightningBolt

You won't be at a disadvantage. I didn't do accounting at LC neither did the the top 3 students in my course. Go figure.

If it's a pure accounting course the only module where you'll be behind is in Financial Accounting. A couple of months doing all the work suggested by your prof and you'll be ahead of the majority of the class (incl those who did LC accounting)

ma.long25

LightningBolt wrote: »

You won't be at a disadvantage. I didn't do accounting at LC neither did the the top 3 students in my course. Go figure.

If it's a pure accounting course the only module where you'll be behind is in Financial Accounting. A couple of months doing all the work suggested by your prof and you'll be ahead of the majority of the class (incl those who did LC accounting)

Thats what i said , while most people wont go to lectures and will be drinking and stuff, ull ahve to spedn a lot mroe time to catch up its fact.

If you dont get baisics right u will be ina world of hurt later on!!!

KlausFlouride

If you sat down over the summer and went through LC Accountancy you'd pick it up in a week or two, (I'm assuming you did it for the Junior Cert or understand the basics). Unless it's changed radically since the 90's, it was essentially the same few questions and adjustments, it looked much more daunting than it actually was. It's an inticing prospect I know....

KenHy

You might be a bit behind, but realisticly you should catch up easily.

m19

Hi, thanks for your advice i downloaded
the leaving cert accountancy paper and found
it fine. also financial accounting is only one module
so it seems fine thanks