UNCERTIFIED DIAMOND in an engagement ring

Unwilling

Hello

I am looking for a consensus, from both general people and those in the industry - please state which you are.

Would you pay good money for a very good diamond if it was not certified by an independant body but purchased however from a very reputable jewelers?

I've done my research - IF this gem is of the quality and calibre the jewelers say it is, then I am getting a good deal. I certainly looks the part, but what do I know. But I'm hesitant without this all important GIA cert.

Also, if I do go ahead, and buy it, and then independantly get it valued and it turns out NOT to be as good as they cliam - have I any recourse?


THANK YOU to any and all who respond.

seamus

Any idea why it was not certified?

I'm not a professional, but afaik without certification, no valuer will give you a valuation, and without valuation you won't get insurance for it.

You can post it to the GIA in New York to get it certified, but I don't see why you should have to. Maybe ask your Jeweller to do it for you? If it's between 1 and 2 carats in weight, you shouldn't expect to pay more than $200 for the certification.

Yoda08

all sounds a bit vague..depends in the size of the diamond. If the diamond is less than 0.5 carat, most jewellers don't certify it. If it's larger than 1 carat and it doesn't have a cert, I would be suspicous as to it's source/veracity. But that's just me!
Doubt you would have a comeback if it's not as described, as it's simply verbal and nothing written/contractual about it....

antiskeptic

Unwilling wrote: »

Hello

I am looking for a consensus, from both general people and those in the industry - please state which you are.

Would you pay good money for a very good diamond if it was not certified by an independant body but purchased however from a very reputable jewelers?

I've done my research - IF this gem is of the quality and calibre the jewelers say it is, then I am getting a good deal. I certainly looks the part, but what do I know. But I'm hesitant without this all important GIA cert.

Also, if I do go ahead, and buy it, and then independantly get it valued and it turns out NOT to be as good as they cliam - have I any recourse?

1) I'm not in the industry

2) You're never going to sell the ring so the certification adds nothing to the ring in that sense. If you can't tell the difference between this gem and an equivilent certified one then what does it matter?

3) If you did sell the ring you'd only get a tiny fraction of what you paid for it, certified or no. So you won't sell the ring for that reason also.

4) If you pay x for y item of jewelery and have a reputable companies receipt for it then your insurance company should pay for it in the case it's lost/stolen/destroyed (assuming such things are covered by your policy). Check with them first though. And save yourself spending on a, for all practical purposes, worthless piece of paper.

Intothesea

Am not in the industry but would just like to add that an oval stone isn't cut-grade certifiable by any lab. Only things such as polish and symmetry are gaugeable and a few basic angles. The best way to gauge it is with your own eyes if there's absolutely no way to have an independent assessment done before purchasing. Key issues to look out for with an oval stone are the length to width ratio (this is personal preference) and the presence of a 'bow-tie' -- an area around the middle of an oval stone that is prone to leakage (i.e. looks 'dead'). The smaller the bow-tie, the better the cut of stone. Examples are given here:

http://www.diamondmadeeasy.com/bow-tie_effect.htm

HTH

seamus

antiskeptic wrote: »

4) If you pay x for y item of jewelery and have a reputable companies receipt for it then your insurance company should pay for it in the case it's lost/stolen/destroyed (assuming such things are covered by your policy). Check with them first though. And save yourself spending on a, for all practical purposes, worthless piece of paper.

However, many insurance companies (any I've spoken to anyway) insist on a valuation for jewellery over a certain price range, and the valuer shouldn't value the ring without a cert - otherwise they cannot verify the quality of the diamond.

So if the ring is lost or stolen, the insurance company won't pay out the replacement value of it. Insurance companies won't accept the receipt as proof of value of the ring.

I could be wrong though.

Turbulent Bill

seamus wrote: »

However, many insurance companies (any I've spoken to anyway) insist on a valuation for jewellery over a certain price range, and the valuer shouldn't value the ring without a cert - otherwise they cannot verify the quality of the diamond.

So if the ring is lost or stolen, the insurance company won't pay out the replacement value of it. Insurance companies won't accept the receipt as proof of value of the ring.

I could be wrong though.

I think a valuation by any reputable jeweller (preferably a third-party one rather than the seller) would be accepted by an insurer, but you should check with them. Any decent jeweller should be able to grade diamonds, maybe not in as much detail as the GIA but enough to get a valuation.

No professional background, just a recent ring buyer. OP, there's an excellent sticky at the top of the forum on engagement rings, certification etc., well worth a read.

newtoboards

A valuation is all that is required for insuring a diamond ring or any jewellery for that matter. Some mainstream jewellers really inflate the price for certified diamonds but consider the likes of www.diamondsandgoldireland.com and www.diamant.ie who have certified diamonds. Independent valuations can be carried out easily if you don't believe the valuation. There's a woman in the hibernian way in Dublin who'll do a valuation while you wait. The diamond cut carat etc will be estimated but that is all an insurer requires

FrancisF

Hi this is my first post on the forum. I feel well able to answer your question though as I have spent 20 years in the jewellery industry in London before moving home to Ireland.

Buying a diamond ring should be a pleasurable experience and if you feel that you have to ask questions about the diamond or jeweller that you are dealing with, you should walk away. It is a good idea to take a long term view of your jeweller, as you will need their services over the life of your diamond ring.

The jewellery firm that I worked for was not interested in the rings that they didn't sell. Yes they charged a little bit more than some but they offered services to their customers, which had to be paid for from somewhere.

Any diamond of over .50 carats is sold on the international market with a certificate. The best of which are the HRD or the GIA. If you are looking at one without I would be highly suspect. as to where it came from.

luckylocket

Hi I got engaged a few months back and have searched since then throughout Dublin for my perfect engagement ring. We originally thought of going to Antwerp but decided against it in the end.
I got exactly what I wanted from a very reputable jewellers in Dublin and it is absolutly stunning - Marquise Cut 0.72ct.
It only came with a personal cert/valuation form from the jeweller and not as detailed as a GIA but to be honest I am totally fine with that as it probably one of the nicest cut diamonds I have seen.
I had many consultations with the jewellers and viewed alot of diamonds before they finally got this diamond and made my ring.
I definitely think it depends on the jeweller you go with and if you trust them. The jewellers we chose is very well known and very reputable and he advised me to have it valued elsewhere and if I was not happy to go back to him.
Thankfully the ring is in fact top spec and another jeweller actually valued it a little more than what we paid for it so good all round.
I have the ring 2 weeks now, it's insured and we could not be happier...

mariebeth

To be honest, the only thing I would be worried about would be to know exactly which country and what diamond mine the diamond came from. Once I knew that I wouldn't care about whether it's certified or not.

FrancisF

If you are buying a diamond that is over half a carat .50 cts and at
or above a "j" colour you should get a certificate. And not one from
the jeweller selling it but from an independent body namely the GIA or
the HRD others are not worth the paper that they are written on. This
is the only guarantee that what you are getting is what they say you
are getting. I saw so many diamonds in my time that were simply not
what was sold to the customer. Worse I saw diamonds that were
specially treated, the customers were told that they were treated but
were not told the signifcance of that. Those who do not understand the
significance of this, should be careful when buying great "deals"
abroad.

If you are buying a diamond buy from someone that you
trust, preferably someone local (you can go back to them in case of
problems). Be very careful of valuers that charge for valuing a ring
by the value given. I used to work with a jeweller who wanted us to
value pieces for the absolute maximum that we could get away with
because then he could charge more for the service. He used to also say
that the work should be done at least once a year so that he could
overcharge again! (I didn't stay long there as he was as they say here
in Dublin a chancer).

Please note getting something overvalued just means more expense for you. First you have to pay extra
to have it valued then you have to pay extra
to have it insured. Insurance companies will only pay out in the case
of a claim for the ammount that it will cost to replace an item, not
for the ammount that it is insured for so ther will be absolutely no
gain.

All in all, you get what you pay for. If you want to buy abroad be prepare to take the risk that it involves.

If you want to buy in Antwrep buy in Antwerp, but don't think that you are
buying the way that an experienced diamond buyer does, for a start he
doesn't buy from the people that are seling to the public.

memomy

Yoda08 wrote: »

all sounds a bit vague..depends in the size of the diamond. If the diamond is less than 0.5 carat, most jewellers don't certify it. If it's larger than 1 carat and it doesn't have a cert, I would be suspicous as to it's source/veracity. But that's just me!
Doubt you would have a comeback if it's not as described, as it's simply verbal and nothing written/contractual about it....

Is there any particular reason why they won't certify diamonds under .5 carat? I had spotted a ring for sale in a well known Dublin jeweler that I liked the look of so I emailed them for specific details and was informed that due to the size of the center diamond (.25crt) it was not certified. He stated that they only certify diamonds of .5 or more as you claimed. When a diamond is this small is it still important that the center diamond be certified?

Cheers.

Milly33

I wouldn't do it this is coming from a buyer or from someone who would buy it. I do not see why they would not certify it

Gatica

My diamond engagement ring didn't come with any cert. It was from a mostly antique jewellery store. They issued their own valuation with the ring and diamond details and picture.
Our insurer required a valuation for jewellery over a certain value. That cert was fine for insurance purposes. However, for our own peace of mind, I got it valued at an independent valuer's in Dublin (http://www.dublinjewelleryvaluations.ie/). She charged a flat rate. (as FrancisF, I also think that valuers who charge a %-age of value cannot be trusted as much, since the work to value a cheap or an expensive diamond can't be hugely different IMO, but by charging a %, it's in their interest to push up the price and I can't see how that can be trusted) I was really happy with her detailed valuation and I was able to get it done on the day without posting it away somewhere.
I think that certs can only be issues for new rings and new diamonds, unless I suppose a seller of vintage items decides to send them away and pay for paper valuations.
If you're buying an old diamond it's unlikely that it would already have a cert IMO.

seamus wrote: »

I'm not a professional, but afaik without certification, no valuer will give you a valuation, and without valuation you won't get insurance for it.

This is partially true. People who call themselves "valuers" often don't have profession training to perform such a task, and therefore rely on someone else's cert to give them the information required for them to complete a data-copy to issue you a valuation. A professional gemologist on the other hand, is able to figure out what it is he's looking at and value it accordingly.

I didn't have to tell Carol Clarke what the jewellery I was bringing her was made from or what I paid for it. She had all the kit. She correctly identified gold and platinum, their carat/purity, quality and era of the diamonds, and estimated the diamond carats etc... I must admit I was impressed.

I am not in the industry, I've only gathered my opinions on this from trying to get our own valuations done.