Governor of Central Bank calls for 9/11-style inquiry into crisis

ednwireland

wtf another tribunal (are the lawyers feeling the pinch with the end of the other ones ?
i think the causes are fairly obvious, cheap credit, gov. driving a property bubble with tax breaks, dodgy planning, partnership process that only seemed to involve throwing money at the public sector.

there you go done who is this f**kwit who wants to throw us down another 10 year tribunal ?


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1216/1224260764432.html

THE GOVERNOR of the Central Bank, Dr Patrick Honohan, has called for an inquiry into the causes of the banking crisis similar to a US congressional hearing into the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the US.

Speaking at his first appearance before an Oireachtas committee since being appointed governor in September, Dr Honohan said new models of inquiry involving not just politicians but experts such as economists and social scientists should be explored to understand how the crisis occurred.

“The crisis is not simply a question of discovering who did what and who knew what,” he told the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Economic Regulatory Affairs.

“Understanding the deep roots of the crisis will require expertise and broad scientific understanding more than merely forensic skills.”

apologies if there is another thread couldnt find it

bamboozle

i dont think messers McCreevey, Ahern, Cowan, Neary, Hurley would be happy if this happened...

smokinp

If it was a real inquiry then it would be a good thing but as OP stated 10 years of waffle and no one found to blame would be the result..

A fudge like the Iraq enquiry in the UK.. Something to shut the average man on the street up..

Sleepy

Dear god no. Please don't throw any more good money after the bad...

jmayo

If the governor wants to find out who caused the whole mess why not start by looking up his predecessor and the former heads (note not just previous head but the guy before him as well) of the central bank offshoot IFSRA.
Go talk to patrick "fundamentals are sound" neary and liam "hear of no overcharging" o'reilly.
Always remember neary only took over 2005 AFAIK so o'reilly shoudln't be absolved of blame.

Maybe Mr Patrick Houlihan can ask the guys fromIFSRA how they knew nothing of Anglo's little loan deals, how they used legal advice from Anglo lawyers rather than their own, how they ignored German finanical regulators warnings about dodgy happening with German bank subsidaries in Dublin ?
Basically ask them why they were complete useless fu**ing twats who spend many luxury dinners with the bankers they were regulating.


Then he can finally go and visit the formerly much lauded and admired banking supremos like seanie "wheres yer loans" fitz, fingers fingelton, eugene "no capital needed" sheedy, brian "only a couple million" goggins, patrick "transfer me house" drumm, etc, etc.

Then he can go look up the brokers over in Davy (brokers for former owners BOI and Anglo) and Goodbodys (Brokers for owners AIB and fond of Caribean islands).

Then after that why not have a chat with a few people at the following address:
65-66 Lower Mount St, Dublin 2
Phone: 01 6761551

One of the biggest culprits for creating the bubble can be contacted at following address, if he isn't trawlling the world giving so called expert opinion speeches or flogging de book.

161 Lower Drumcondra Road, Dublin 9
Phone: 01-8374129

Now another one of the primary culpirts for the bubble can be found at
O'Connor Street, Tullamore, Co. Offaly
Tel: 057-9321976
or sometimes even at place of work :
Department of the Taoiseach, Government Buildings, Dublin 2.
Tel: 353 1 6624888

Another ex minister of finance is off in Brussels.
He can sometimes be contacted at place of work:
European Commissioner for Internal Market and Services
European Commission
B - 1049 Brussels

Now he doesn't read much so better to make it short questions.
Or better still just ask one of his 10 or so cabinet staff, many of whom are Irish (jobs for the boys and girls don't you know).

So now I have pointed him in the right direction why the need for an expensive tribunal.
Also I would recommend he hires the sevices of the viper to extract answers from all of the above, once again saving on the expense of hiring some verbose gentleman like Michael "the cafe" McDowell.

Dirk Gently

Is it inquiry which will lead to criminal charges and those found responsible paying the legal costs?

no? because if not then it's just jobs for the boys.

View

ednwireland wrote: »

wtf another tribunal (are the lawyers feeling the pinch with the end of the other ones ?

A lot of lawyers are suffering as the property crash has resulted in a major drop off in business for the profession.

You wouldn't begrudge them an oul' FAS scheme - Oops, I mean tribunal to investigate the issue, would you?

imme

ednwireland wrote: »

wtf another tribunal (are the lawyers feeling the pinch with the end of the other ones ?
i think the causes are fairly obvious, cheap credit, gov. driving a property bubble with tax breaks, dodgy planning, partnership process that only seemed to involve throwing money at the public sector.

there you go done who is this f**kwit who wants to throw us down another 10 year tribunal ?


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1216/1224260764432.html



apologies if there is another thread couldnt find it

The Governor of the Central Bank called for an inquiry into the BANKING CRISIS not the economic collapse op.
He called for a 9/11 style Congressional inquiry, he didn't ask for a Moriarty/Mahon style tribunal. I think it's a timely call, at a time when NAMA is about to be established. The inquiry might answer the call as to why we had to invest €7bn in AIB & BOI. It might explain why the Governor thinks the state might have to take a 50% stake in AIB & BOI. It might explain why the Governor thinks 80% ownsership by the state of AIB & BOI (effective nationalisation) might not be too far off the mark.

It might explain why we'll have to spend €25bn over the next 10-years managing NAMA.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-was-crazy-to-reveal-836425bn-cost-of-nama-team-1938491.html

Slightly off topic: I think it says a lot about Boards that this thread has received so little attention.
When I looked at it it said it had 97 views. Maybe because it doesn't involve PS bashing I guess.:rolleyes:
This is the Economy & Thread section of Boards after all.

nesf

imme wrote: »

Slightly off topic: I think it says a lot about Boards that this thread has received so little attention.
When I looked at it it said it had 97 views. Maybe because it doesn't involve PS bashing I guess.:rolleyes:
This is the Economy & Thread section of Boards after all.

Don't throw digs at the forum population. It'll just derail otherwise good threads and cause more of what you dislike to appear on here.

nesf

I'm bemused really.

The new Governor of the Central Bank, who is a widely respected neutral for all intents and purposes, proposes an investigation into how exactly our banking crisis came about so that we can avoid such mistakes in future and yet people are deriding it as jobs for the boys and useless because of popular beliefs as to who is responsible? Blind populism is one of the factors that got us into this mess, haven't you people learned anything?

gandalf

If as someone says above this will lead to people serving time for wrong doing them I am all in favour of it. If on the other hand its a talking shop that allows a small number of lawyers and solicitors earn outrageous fortunes then no we don't need another of those.

It would have to encompass the politicians who failed to legislate, the regulators who failed to regulate and the bankers who failed to follow good business practice and were involved in dodgy account practices with each other like the transfer of monies between banks to make the balances look kosher.

The tax payer needs to see justice being done especially as they are now burdened with a potential millstone that is NAMA.

gandalf

nesf wrote: »

I'm bemused really.

I don't see why. Based on tribunals in the country no one really has been called to account. The latest to appear to get away scot free is a certain resident of Dublin 9.

I suppose people have just gotten ultra cynical.

imme

nesf wrote: »

Don't throw digs at the forum population. It'll just derail otherwise good threads and cause more of what you dislike to appear on here.

I am a member of the forum population as you call it, as well. I don't know that I was throwing digs, but if you believe I was:rolleyes:.
The thread was going nowhere, was not getting the importance of which I think it's worthy, in comparison to other threads dealing with less important matters, imo.

imme

nesf wrote: »

I'm bemused really.

The new Governor of the Central Bank, who is a widely respected neutral for all intents and purposes, proposes an investigation into how exactly our banking crisis came about so that we can avoid such mistakes in future and yet people are deriding it as jobs for the boys and useless because of popular beliefs as to who is responsible? Blind populism is one of the factors that got us into this mess, haven't you people learned anything?

so does that mean you think we need to go with Honohan's 9/11 style inquiry.

nesf

imme wrote: »

so does that mean you think we need to go with Honohan's 9/11 style inquiry.

It means I think a technical examination of the subject would be a good idea, especially if said examination had the powers to force information from parties. But this would only work if specialists not lawyers were doing it, a Mahon style tribunal would be a horrendous waste of public money.

imme

nesf wrote: »

It means I think a technical examination of the subject would be a good idea, especially if said examination had the powers to force information from parties. But this would only work if specialists not lawyers were doing it, a Mahon style tribunal would be a horrendous waste of public money.

US style congressional inquiries have to power to compel witnesses to attend, sometimes you run into the '5th amendment....', Irish Oireachtas don't have the right to compel witnesses to attend. I'm sure the DIRT inquiry will be set up as an example for those wishing to see an inquiry.
I don't think anyone political or non political would advocate a Mahon/Moriarty style tribunal.
Not trying to be smart with you there Nesf btw.

starbelgrade

A 9/11 style enquiry? Does this mean that we can blame the crisis on a foreign country & invade them in the search for something that doesn't exist?

Cool.

bamboozle

jmayo wrote: »

If the governor wants to find out who caused the whole mess why not start by looking up his predecessor and the former heads (note not just previous head but the guy before him as well) of the central bank offshoot IFSRA.
Go talk to patrick "fundamentals are sound" neary and liam "hear of no overcharging" o'reilly.
Always remember neary only took over 2005 AFAIK so o'reilly shoudln't be absolved of blame.

Maybe Mr Patrick Houlihan can ask the guys fromIFSRA how they knew nothing of Anglo's little loan deals, how they used legal advice from Anglo lawyers rather than their own, how they ignored German finanical regulators warnings about dodgy happening with German bank subsidaries in Dublin ?
Basically ask them why they were complete useless fu**ing twats who spend many luxury dinners with the bankers they were regulating.


Then he can finally go and visit the formerly much lauded and admired banking supremos like seanie "wheres yer loans" fitz, fingers fingelton, eugene "no capital needed" sheedy, brian "only a couple million" goggins, patrick "transfer me house" drumm, etc, etc.

Then he can go look up the brokers over in Davy (brokers for former owners BOI and Anglo) and Goodbodys (Brokers for owners AIB and fond of Caribean islands).

Then after that why not have a chat with a few people at the following address:
65-66 Lower Mount St, Dublin 2
Phone: 01 6761551

One of the biggest culprits for creating the bubble can be contacted at following address, if he isn't trawlling the world giving so called expert opinion speeches or flogging de book.

161 Lower Drumcondra Road, Dublin 9
Phone: 01-8374129

Now another one of the primary culpirts for the bubble can be found at
O'Connor Street, Tullamore, Co. Offaly
Tel: 057-9321976
or sometimes even at place of work :
Department of the Taoiseach, Government Buildings, Dublin 2.
Tel: 353 1 6624888

Another ex minister of finance is off in Brussels.
He can sometimes be contacted at place of work:
European Commissioner for Internal Market and Services
European Commission
B - 1049 Brussels

Now he doesn't read much so better to make it short questions.
Or better still just ask one of his 10 or so cabinet staff, many of whom are Irish (jobs for the boys and girls don't you know).

So now I have pointed him in the right direction why the need for an expensive tribunal.
Also I would recommend he hires the sevices of the viper to extract answers from all of the above, once again saving on the expense of hiring some verbose gentleman like Michael "the cafe" McDowell.

excellent post

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

I'm bemused really.

The new Governor of the Central Bank, who is a widely respected neutral for all intents and purposes, proposes an investigation into how exactly our banking crisis came about so that we can avoid such mistakes in future and yet people are deriding it as jobs for the boys and useless because of popular beliefs as to who is responsible? Blind populism is one of the factors that got us into this mess, haven't you people learned anything?

Sometimes I wonder about you

There is no need for big fancy enquiry, at most all that is needed is what was proposed in the Seanad, a DIRT style enquiry.
The people I would put on it are Shane Ross, George Lee and Pat Rabitte.
No need for anyone else, definetly no need for any FFers like that spanner frank fahey.

In the meantime I will send a copy of Shane Ross's book over to Hounihan to get him started.

You are bleating on about blind populism, but this has shag all to do with blind populism, well apart from the new governor appearing to be doing something by proposing a big enquiry.
Lo and behold before you know it Dublin Castle is full of hired suits like McDowell strutting his stuff and we have races to the high court every other day by seanie fitz and patprick neary. :rolleyes:

The seeds for all the mess was sown in the very organisation the governor nows heads, it's offshoot and retirement home (IFSRA) together with the dept of finance.
If these entities had been in control then we would not have had the mess.

Compare us to Spain and how they had massive construction bubble like us, yet their banks are not in such sh**e.

Yes the above were run by a government chasing popularity and looking after no.1 themsleves and no.2 their supporters, but did they ever challenege the bankers ?
Everytime I hear at the end of finanical product advert that they are regulated by the Financial Regulator I grimace. :mad:
Regulation?
They never knew the meaning of the word.

In all their history, and the history of the parent organisation Central Bank, only one banker has been fined, Fingers jnr last year.

That would be a history where we had:

• dodgy bank set up by mr Chelsea Ken Bates.
• dodgy bank setup by Mr PMPA Moore, that dragged down PMPA and resulted in insurance buyer paying a levy for twenty odd years to cover bailout cost
• DIRT non resident accounts
• Ansbacher
• Goodbody's dealing in AIB shares in Nevis
• AIB directors tax free offshore funds
• overcharging in NIB
• overcharging in AIB
• Anglo loans to buy Anglo shares (normally in contravention of companies acts)
• Anglo & IN moving Director loans (mislead the markets)
• Anglo & IL&P lend us a deposit (mislead the markets part deux)

Now please tell me why we need big enquiry or why we are populist if we can plainly see where a huge chunk of the blame lies for the banking messes ?

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

Now please tell me why we need big enquiry or why we are populist if we can plainly see where a huge chunk of the blame lies for the banking messes ?

Because the above is not good enough! We need to see exactly how our regulatory structure failed here. Where the perverse incentives were, where the moral hazard was and how it could be prevented in the future. Yes a lot of the blame lies at the feet of the banks but in what ways weren't they restrained that led to this? Was there active encouragement or "benign" negligence (i.e. did the regulators and politicians encourage the banks or did they simply ignore the problem?).

Flamed Diving

ednwireland wrote: »

there you go done who is this f**kwit who wants to throw us down another 10 year tribunal ?

Wow, you must be quite the intelligent and successful boy to be looking down on this man. Let's see, I shall list some of this mans achievements, and then we will list yours, eh?

2009 - Central Bank Governor.

2007- Trinity College Dublin
Professor of International Financial Economics and Development, Department of Economics and
Institute for International Integration Studies. Professorial Fellow since 2008.

1987-1990 and 1998-2007: The World Bank, Washington DC.
Senior Advisor, Financial Sector Policy 2002-7. Lead Economist in the Development Research
Group 1998-2002 and Advisor, Financial Policy and Strategy Department 2001-2. Senior
Economist, 1987-90.

1990-1998: Economic and Social Research Institute, Dublin
Research Professor and Director of the Institute's Banking Research Centre.

1980s: Economic Advisor to the Taoiseach (Irish Prime Minister)
Economic Advisor to Dr. Garret Fitz Gerald (1981-82 and 1984-86).

1976-84: Central Bank of Ireland, Research and International Relations Departments
Senior Economist, 1980-84; Economist, 1976-80

1971-73: International Monetary Fund, Secretary's Department

Shorter appointments:

International Monetary Fund (Visiting Scholar, Research Department, 1996)
Australian National University (Visiting Fellow, Department of Statistics, 1987)
University College Dublin (College Lecturer, Department of Political Economy, 1986-87)
University of California, San Diego (Visiting Assistant Professor, Dept. of Economics, 1982-83)
London School of Economics (Temporary Lecturer in Economics, 1974)

Education
University College Dublin: BA Economics & Mathematics (1st Class Honours), 1971
MA Economics (by thesis) (1st Class Honours), 1973
London School of Economics: MSc Econometrics & Mathematical Economics, 1974
PhD Economics, 1978
PhD Dissertation: "Uncertainty, Portfolio Choice and Economic
Fluctuations" (Supervisor: Michio Morishima)
Selected other professional activities
Royal Irish Academy: Elected to Membership in 2002; Member of the Audit Committee 2005-6
Irish Economic Association: President (1998-2000) and Council Member (1993-2002)
Centre for Economic Policy Research (CEPR), London: Research Fellow (since 1992).
Economic and Social Research Institute, Ireland: Council Member since 2006; Member of the Audit
Committee since 2007.
Foundation for Fiscal Studies, Ireland: Council Member since 2004.
National Economic and Social Council, Ireland: Member (1995-98)
Statistical and Social Inquiry Society of Ireland: Council Member since 2007.

Referee for American Economic Review, Econometrica, European Economic Review, Journal of Political Economy, Journal of International Economics, Journal of International Money and Finance, Journal of Banking and Finance, Journal of Financial Intermediation, Journal of International Taxation and Public Finance, Journal of Comparative Economics, Journal of Policy Reform, Journal of Applied Economics, International Finance, Review of Financial Economics, Quarterly Review of Economics and Finance, Fiscal Studies, World Development, World Bank Economic Review etc.; Cambridge University Press etc. (i.e. he is a referee for the worlds most prestigious economic journals).

and more.

Wow, quite an impressive CV. Yours must be way better, I bet it is..., sure if he is a f**kwit, what does that make you, by comparison? Looking forward to hearing about your magnificent achievements up in Donegal.

Go!

“Understanding the deep roots of the crisis will require expertise and broad scientific understanding more than merely forensic skills.”

Wow, what a stupid idea. Sure every armchair economist knows the answer to this, and knows how to solve this crisis and how to prevent it in future. It's just their armchair is sooo comfy and the X-Factor is keeping them busy.

D'oh...

Flamed Diving

nesf wrote: »

Because the above is not good enough! We need to see exactly how our regulatory structure failed here. Where the perverse incentives were, where the moral hazard was and how it could be prevented in the future. Yes a lot of the blame lies at the feet of the banks but in what ways weren't they restrained that led to this? Was there active encouragement or "benign" negligence (i.e. did the regulators and politicians encourage the banks or did they simply ignore the problem?).

Nesf, this problem lies with the idea that if you simply view the crisis in retrospect and point the finger are the wrongdoers, we will guarantee that it will never happen again. Many, many people seem to believe this, or they hold the notion that no style of regulation or policy will make any difference, nor will any party elected. Good old negative Irish thinking.

What we have at the moment is a chance to make major operational changes in our banking and economic system, and if Honohan was to be listened to, we could have our best academic minds working on it, not these econojournalists that people in this forum mistake for economists. And as he stated, not just economists, but other social scientists too.

But no, people. Let's throw this chance away to turn this country in a new direction. Driven not by knowledge, but winks, handshakes and a hefty measure of begrudgery. If we keep things the way they are, they will return us from whence we came. That is a fact. But I bet the usual suspects will be in here, saying that the economists "didn't see it coming" with a style of wilful ignorance that only a true Irish begrudger can muster.

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

Because the above is not good enough! We need to see exactly how our regulatory structure failed here. Where the perverse incentives were, where the moral hazard was and how it could be prevented in the future. Yes a lot of the blame lies at the feet of the banks but in what ways weren't they restrained that led to this? Was there active encouragement or "benign" negligence (i.e. did the regulators and politicians encourage the banks or did they simply ignore the problem?).

Ok if you want to see why our system failed take a look at fact that the regulation system is carried out by people who have been insiders all their lives as in Liam O'Reilly and POatrick Neary.
Historically upto appointment of Honohan the head of central bank has been ex civil servant from Dept of Finance, so thus an insider of the system.
Subsequently most ex governonrs have been apointed to the board of one of the big banks.
So there you can immediately see incentives to not rock the boat of a possible future employer.
Do we need a tribunal to arrive at that logic ?

AFAIK Irish central bankers and regulators are often taken out for fancy lunches by our big banks, something I believe never happens in the UK.
What other little gifts are passed their ways that we don't hear about ?

We can have a tribunal to look into the minutae of what went on but unless the primary players are willing to tell the truth we are going round in circles for years.

How it can be prevented in future is by having non insiders running the show, where the regulators can not be rewarded by plush directorships with any of the banks subsequently.
Banks need to be fined, and heavily, for their misdemeanours.
Also the existing corporate laws on dodgy deals need to be strengthened if necessary but definetly enforced and white collar criminals need to go to jail.

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Nesf, this problem lies with the idea that if you simply view the crisis in retrospect and point the finger are the wrongdoers, we will guarantee that it will never happen again. Many, many people seem to believe this, or they hold the notion that no style of regulation or policy will make any difference, nor will any party elected. Good old negative Irish thinking.

What we have at the moment is a chance to make major operational changes in our banking and economic system, and if Honohan was to be listened to, we could have our best academic minds working on it, not these econojournalists that people in this forum mistake for economists. And as he stated, not just economists, but other social scientists too.

But no, people. Let's throw this chance away to turn this country in a new direction. Driven not by knowledge, but winks, handshakes and a hefty measure of begrudgery. If we keep things the way they are, they will return us from whence we came. That is a fact. But I bet the usual suspects will be in here, saying that the economists "didn't see it coming" with a style of wilful ignorance that only a true Irish begrudger can muster.

We need to overhual the system and strengthen it, but is is no use bringing in stricter laws, rules and guidelines if we get muppets like o'reilly and neary to run the show.

So what is your expert opinion on my suggestion of Shane Ross to chair any enquiry that would be set up ?
He is one of your awful econojournalists that you appear to disadain.
God forbid he might even appeal to the masses who see him as one of the few people who sheds light on the dodgy world of Irish economics and business ?

You appear to want academics to overhual the system.
It isn't just economists or academics we need, but ethical people of good moral fibre who can call a spade a spade.
It is people of good character, people with a backbone who won't be bullied or bought that we need firstly to oversee a transformation and secondly to bloody run the show in the future.
No bloody insiders would be a good start.

View

Personally, I'd say we need some actual prosecutions for corporate mis-behaviour first and foremost.

There is enough evidence out there that, at least, in the case of Anglo-Irish, the accounts presented to the public did not present a true picture of the company's finances as a result of the short term loans they were in receipt of from FNBS. Based on these inaccurate accounts an awful lot of people invested money with Anglo-Irish and lost most, if not all, of it. As such, this was not a "victimless" action.

Likewise, Anglo's false accounts would have put pressure on their peers to be more agressive in their lending practices to try and match Anglo's "growth" (i.e. if Anglo grows by 10% a year and you grow by 3% a year, you are going to be under pressure to perform as well as Anglo). This in turn led to the other banks beheaving recklessly with their shareholder's equity.

Given the massive destruction of shareholder's equity by the management of the banks, there is no way anyone can maintain that the Boards of Managent of these companies are competent, yet how many of them will face the prospect of being "struck off" by the ODCE?

And this shouldn't surprise anyone - remember the Fyffe's case where then DCC chairman, Jim Flavin, was judged by the Supreme Court to have engaged in insider trading? What happened? Why his board expressed full confidence in him a few days later (in effect saying they saw nothing wrong with insider trading). And who was on the board? Why, members of the boards of AIB and BoI, who a year or so later both needed bailouts after coming to the brink of bankruptcy. Why should we be surprised that they ended up in trouble also?

Look at the overall picture on corporate governance:

i) If you engage in insider trading, that's okay - you are not going to jail like you would in most other countries.
ii) If you vote confidence in someone judged to have engaged in insider trading, no one even asks questions about how well you are governing the other companies you are a director of.
iii) If you present false accounts, like Anglo, that's okay - we seem to have no problem with this as it doesn't look like any action will be taken about this.
iv) If you manage to run your company so badly that the tax-payer has to bail you out, that's okay. There is no sign you'll be struck off or asked to repay the bonuses you personally got for your "great performance" when you were managing the company so "well".
v) Not only that, but you'll probably be left in place so that when the company returns to profitability in the future, you'll be able to collect additional bonuses for your brilliant management.

Now, tell me - apart from personal integrity - why should anyone seek to run a bank/company in Ireland in an honest fashion? You'll get to keep all the profits for bad behaviour and in the worst case you might have to suffer the embarassement of your name in the paper for a couple of days.

Flamed Diving

jmayo wrote: »

the dodgy world of Irish economics

Care to elaborate on this?

jmayo wrote: »

It isn't just economists or academics we need, but ethical people of good moral fibre who can call a spade a spade.
It is people of good character, people with a backbone who won't be bullied or bought that we need firstly to oversee a transformation and secondly to bloody run the show in the future.

Because academics and economists have no "good moral fibre" and can "call a spade a spade"? Tell me, who are the top five academic economists in this country, and why?

SkepticOne

Flamed Diving wrote: »

and if Honohan was to be listened to, we could have our best academic minds working on it

I can't wait.

Flamed Diving

SkepticOne wrote: »

I can't wait.

Not gonna happen, though.

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

Ok if you want to see why our system failed take a look at fact that the regulation system is carried out by people who have been insiders all their lives as in Liam O'Reilly and POatrick Neary.
Historically upto appointment of Honohan the head of central bank has been ex civil servant from Dept of Finance, so thus an insider of the system.
Subsequently most ex governonrs have been apointed to the board of one of the big banks.
So there you can immediately see incentives to not rock the boat of a possible future employer.
Do we need a tribunal to arrive at that logic ?

AFAIK Irish central bankers and regulators are often taken out for fancy lunches by our big banks, something I believe never happens in the UK.
What other little gifts are passed their ways that we don't hear about ?

We can have a tribunal to look into the minutae of what went on but unless the primary players are willing to tell the truth we are going round in circles for years.

How it can be prevented in future is by having non insiders running the show, where the regulators can not be rewarded by plush directorships with any of the banks subsequently.
Banks need to be fined, and heavily, for their misdemeanours.
Also the existing corporate laws on dodgy deals need to be strengthened if necessary but definetly enforced and white collar criminals need to go to jail.

Just because you assume it is that simple doesn't mean it was that simple.

recedite

View wrote: »

Personally, I'd say we need some actual prosecutions for corporate mis-behaviour first and foremost.

True; and I think you'll find that (a) witnesses cannot be compelled to attend the tribunal and (b) evidence they do decide to submit cannot be used against them in a later prosecution, therefore a tribunal guarantees that there will be no prosecution.

jmayo wrote: »

There is no need for big fancy enquiry, at most all that is needed is what was proposed in the Seanad, a DIRT style enquiry.
The people I would put on it are Shane Ross, George Lee and Pat Rabitte.
No need for anyone else

Excellent idea and I would go further; replace the Seanad with a permanent small investigative committee of 3-5 members (offer the job to these 3 to start with) whose job is to ensure the taxpayer gets value and honesty. Let them investigate wherever they see fit.

I suspect Dr. Honohan already knows the answers to the questions his tribunal would ask. This is really a call for back-up.
Who better than The Three Amigos?