Towing a trailer - Licence issue

oldyouth

Hopefully I'm in the right area with this question.

A friend of mine moved to Ireland 15 years ago and converted his licence for an Irish one. It was renewed again on the 10 year mark, nothing unusual there.

The other day a Garda stopped him at a checkpoint and asked to see his licence, which he handed over. The Garda then pointed out to him that his licence didn't have class E+ B for trailers and that he was going to summons him for no Licence, which in turn would mean that he had no insurance and he was going to do him for that too as well as threatening to impound his vehicle

Obviously, when converting the licence, my friend didn't tick the box for trailers because everyone else I know got it automatically when they passed the ordinary test. Is there an actual test to tow a normal mid size trailer and has anyone experienced this before? Any advice appreciated

Seth Brundle

oldyouth wrote: »

Hopefully I'm in the right area with this question.

A friend of mine moved to Ireland 15 years ago and converted his licence for an Irish one. It was renewed again on the 10 year mark, nothing unusual there.

The other day a Garda stopped him at a checkpoint and asked to see his licence, which he handed over. The Garda then pointed out to him that his licence didn't have class E+ B for trailers and that he was going to summons him for no Licence, which in turn would mean that he had no insurance and he was going to do him for that too as well as threatening to impound his vehicle

Obviously, when converting the licence, my friend didn't tick the box for trailers because everyone else I know got it automatically when they passed the ordinary test. Is there an actual test to tow a normal mid size trailer and has anyone experienced this before? Any advice appreciated

There is a test for each licence category!
As for "your friend", the garda is completely correct!

hobochris

I thought the law was that your may tow up to 750kg on a B license and anything over you need an E+B.

Quoted from RSA FAQ:

Q. May I tow a trailer on my full B license?
A. Yes, provided
(1) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the combination does not exceed 3500kg or
(2) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750kg If you wish to tow a heavier trailer you will have to apply for a category EB license.


http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/Licensing/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf

Fiesta

You can tow a maximum of 750kgs with with a class B (car) driving licence, without having category B+E.

What size trailer was he towing?

Was he taken to a weighbridge?

Seth Brundle

Thats correct Chris - 750kg is the loaded weight of the trailer which isn't much - I presume the OPs 'friend' was towing a heavier weight than this.

oldyouth

Fiesta wrote: »

You can tow a maximum of 750kgs with with a class B (car) driving licence, without having category B+E.

What size trailer was he towing?

Was he taken to a weighbridge?

No he wasn't taken to a weighbridge. It was a 1 ton (capacity) trailer but I don't know if he had anything in it at the time

oldyouth

BTW, I do appreciate the advice and it is for a friend, not myself

Seth Brundle

How heavy would the trailer have been do you think?

BrianD3

This issue always causes confusion. If the design gross weight of the combination (towcar + trailer) is less than 3500 kg and the design gross weight of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the towcar, then a B licence is sufficient.

You say that the trailer was a 1000 kg trailer, presumably this is the design gross weight. Whether your friend was legal or not will depend on what vehicle he was towing it with and what its design gross weight and unladen weight are.

The actual weight of the trailer at time of towing is irrelevant from a licence pov. An empty double horsebox may weigh less than 500 kg but have a design gross weight of 2500 kg. It's the latter figure that counts.

oldyouth

BrianD3 wrote: »

This issue always causes confusion. If the design gross weight of the combination (towcar + trailer) is less than 3500 kg and the design gross weight of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the towcar, then a B licence is sufficient.

You say that the trailer was a 1000 kg trailer, presumably this is the design gross weight. Whether your friend was legal or not will depend on what vehicle he was towing it with and what its design gross weight and unladen weight are.

The actual weight of the trailer at time of towing is irrelevant from a licence pov. An empty double horsebox may weigh less than 500 kg but have a design gross weight of 2500 kg. It's the latter figure that counts.

I just rang my mate and it is not good (I think). The vehicle was not brought to the weighbridge but the trailer he was using was actually larger than his normal one and it has a plate on it with a design weight of 2,750 kg. His vehicle is a Toyota HiLux twin cab

Out Of Order

Sounds harsh!
I regularly tow a horsebox.
I enquired about taking a test but was basically told that there was no need.

What about 16 year olds drawing silage on country roads? They have no driving experience, they're taking up the width of the road, and they're going as fast as they can from morning to night. I'd be far more concerned about that!

BrianD3

oldyouth wrote: »

I just rang my mate and it is not good (I think). The vehicle was not brought to the weighbridge but the trailer he was using was actually larger than his normal one and it has a plate on it with a design weight of 2,750 kg. His vehicle is a Toyota HiLux twin cab

He definitely needed an EB licence in that case. He will have been in breach of both the 3500 kg rule and the unladen towcar weight vs design gross trailer weight rule.

A Hilux probably has a unladen weight of around 1800 kg and a gross weight of around 2500-2800 kg.

The only possible defence I can think of is if he already had EB (AFAIK it used to be awarded automatically) on his licence but when converting it lost it by not ticking a box on a form. Basically an admin error. Might be treated leniently if he can prove that he did originally have EB.

macplaxton

BrianD3 wrote: »

This issue always causes confusion. If the design gross weight of the combination (towcar + trailer) is less than 3500 kg and the design gross weight of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the towcar, then a B licence is sufficient.

Agreed.
e.g. a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle.

MAM = maximum authorised mass = design gross weight.

oldyouth

BrianD3 wrote: »

The only possible defence I can think of is if he already had EB (AFAIK it used to be awarded automatically) on his licence but when converting it lost it by not ticking a box on a form. Basically an admin error. Might be treated leniently if he can prove that he did originally have EB.

I think that's where we are at as a possible solution. When he told me, I got out my licence to examine it. I have the trailer cover and I can't reverse the damn things whereas he can put one on a sispence, I have full motorcycle cover, though I've never sat on one in my life and I also have tractor cover (enough said)

When I passed my test, I got one of the old papar book licences and when it was converted over, I ticked every category on the form and got most of them. I even got truck cover for 10 years but they asked me to do a medical if I wanted to renew it last time, which I declined.

deegs2

Which brainless halfwit pen pushing public sector official brought this stupid health & safety issue forward....was it HOGAN again ?? ****

Hal Decks

Which brainless halfwit internet troll dragged up a three year old topic?



(Great to see Hogan being blamed for this, too. Kinda shows the mentality of the critic, doesn't it?)

deegs2

Hal Decks wrote: »

Which brainless halfwit internet troll dragged up a three year old topic?



(Great to see Hogan being blamed for this, too. Kinda shows the mentality of the critic, doesn't it?)

well I blame Hogan for everything thats wrong with this country, Leo is the man here