Accounts to be scanned in welfare fraud crackdown

Amhran Nua

Interesting article from the Independent on a crackdown on Welfare fraud:

SUSPECTED social-welfare cheats will have their bank accounts scanned under new anti-fraud powers.

Welfare inspectors can also now mount checkpoints without gardai and question car occupants. And they can transfer information to other countries as part of investigations into welfare fraud.

The move to crack down on welfare cheats follows criticism of the amount of taxpayers' money that is being lost to fraudsters.

Social and Family Affairs Minister Mary Hanafin has denied claims that €2bn is being lost in social-welfare fraud every year. Her estimate is that it is just 1pc of the budget -- about €440m.

But the new powers were introduced as part of the legislation, passed through the Dail last Friday, which saw cuts to child benefit and 38 social-welfare payments.

Inspectors from the Department of Social Welfare can finally get details of bank accounts of suspected welfare cheats. But the officers must have reason to believe the individual is engaging in welfare fraud.

The access to bank accounts will allow officials to check if people claiming benefits have alternative sources of income.

But it will also mean being able to check if foreign nationals are largely withdrawing money from outside the state.

This will make it easier for the department to track cases of people living in the North and claiming welfare under false addresses in the Republic. And it also will reduce cases of abuse of welfare payments by non-nationals.

Social-welfare inspectors can also mount checkpoints with customs officers, without the need for a garda presence.

The law also provides that an inspector can question any occupants of a car to check whether they are working while also claiming social welfare payments.

Some fairly heavy duty powers there, I have to say. Where would they mount these checkpoints, outside luxury goods stores or something?

Mr. Presentable

In my experience of welfare cheats, they don't operate bank accounts - cash only - so this will only track the stupid ones.

bridan90

What about the banks, developers and crooked politicians who have defrauded this country out of billions, leaving all of us on the brink of bankrupcy? No crackdown on them oh no but some poor single mother trying to make ends meet and feed her family she will feel the full force of the law cause she got a few hours work and didn't declare it!

No doubt there are professional benefit fraudsters out there but they will be too clever to get caught. It's always the poor and the vulnerable who are made to bear the brunt of the evil deeds of others. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Max Power1

bridan90 wrote: »

What about the banks, developers and crooked politicians who have defrauded this country out of billions, leaving all of us on the brink of bankrupcy? No crackdown on them oh no but some poor single mother trying to make ends meet and feed her family she will feel the full force of the law cause she got a few hours work and didn't declare it!

No doubt there are professional benefit fraudsters out there but they will be too clever to get caught. It's always the poor and the vulnerable who are made to bear the brunt of the evil deeds of others. :mad: :mad: :mad:

The poor and vulnerable?
This is cracking down on FRAUD ffs!!

Amhran Nua

I'm still bemused by the image of people being frisked outside of Marks and Spencers... Although yeah I know its to catch border hoppers.

cee_jay

bridan90 wrote: »

No crackdown on them oh no but some poor single mother trying to make ends meet and feed her family she will feel the full force of the law cause she got a few hours work and didn't declare it!

This is still fraud - no two ways about it unfortunately.
It is still the taxpayers money, and if every single mother in the country was doing this that would be some amount of money paid fraudently.

Ciaran500

If a welfare inspector stops someone on the road what do you have to say to them? Surely you don't even have to give them your name.

cee_jay

A social welfare inspector may, for the purposes of ensuring compliance with this Act, if accompanied by a member of the Garda Síochána in uniform—


(a) stop any vehicle which he or she reasonably suspects is used in the course of employment or self-employment, and


(b) on production of his or her certificate of appointment, where so requested, question and make enquiries of any person in the vehicle or require that person to give to the social welfare inspector any record relating to his or her employment or self-employment which the person has possession of in the vehicle, and examine it.

Got the above from http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0026/sec0250.html
More information on the power of Social Welfare Inspectors can be found at http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/swi_powers.aspx

Amhran Nua

cAr0l wrote: »

if accompanied by a member of the Garda Síochána in uniform

Not any more.

jhegarty

bridan90 wrote: »

but some poor single mother trying to make ends meet and feed her family she will feel the full force of the law cause she got a few hours work and didn't declare it!

If there was less people cheating they would be more money for the honest people claiming correctly.

Perhaps there could cancel the reductions for the blind if they catch enough cheats.

bridan90

It is all fraud and nobody should be free from punishment but the point I was trying to make was that the bigger the fraud is the less likely you are to get punished! Big bonus's, huge payoffs and promotions? Is that fair? Do you really imagine for one second catching a few people at the bottom of the pile for doing the double is going to solve the huge debt this country is in or that it will make the system any fairer for the more deserving?

You cannot expect honesty in others unless you are honest yourself. When governments balls up they always look round for scapegoats and it's always those who can't fight back! "Oh look at all this benefit fraud if we could just catch all these cheats then our economy would be back on its feet in no time!!" ASK YOURSELF WHO BROUGHT THE ECONOMY TO IT'S KNEES IN THE FIRST PLACE? Benefit frauds or incompentent, complancent government, greedy and dishonest banks and developers? I know what one I'm going with! :mad: :mad: :mad:

bridan90

Max Power1 wrote: »

The poor and vulnerable?
This is cracking down on FRAUD ffs!!

It is all fraud and nobody should be free from punishment but the point I was trying to make was that the bigger the fraud is the less likely you are to get punished! Big bonus's, huge payoffs and promotions? Is that fair? Do you really imagine for one second catching a few people at the bottom of the pile for doing the double is going to solve the huge debt this country is in or that it will make the system any fairer for the more deserving?

You cannot expect honesty in others unless you are honest yourself. When governments balls up they always look round for scapegoats and it's always those who can't fight back! "Oh look at all this benefit fraud if we could just catch all these cheats then our economy would be back on its feet in no time!!" ASK YOURSELF WHO BROUGHT THE ECONOMY TO IT'S KNEES IN THE FIRST PLACE? Benefit frauds or incompentent, complacent government, greedy and dishonest banks and developers? I know what one I'm going with! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Thoie

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Some fairly heavy duty powers there, I have to say. Where would they mount these checkpoints, outside luxury goods stores or something?

They already do this, I've seen them a few times. The biggest I saw recently was a big operation on the main road near an office park. The guards, customs and social welfare were all there. They had closed off one lane, were checking tax, insurance, NCT and randomly pulling people over. Some were having their tank dipped, others were having conversations with men with clipboards.

They had a large number of cars (many with yellow plates) already sitting there with no drivers, and there were an awful lot of people out of their cars and gesticulating wildly.

Mr. Presentable

bridan90 wrote: »

but some poor single mother trying to make ends meet and feed her family she will feel the full force of the law cause she got a few hours work and didn't declare it!

Don't you mean "I"?

bridan90

nipplenuts wrote: »

Don't you mean "I"?

No darling

Amhran Nua

bridan90 wrote: »

"Oh look at all this benefit fraud if we could just catch all these cheats then our economy would be back on its feet in no time!!" ASK YOURSELF WHO BROUGHT THE ECONOMY TO IT'S KNEES IN THE FIRST PLACE?

No reason why both problems can't be fixed though. I'd say the days of widespread benefit fraud are coming to an end, which was inevitable as computerised systems come into play and agencies start cooperating with one another more closely.

bridan90

Amhran Nua wrote: »

No reason why both problems can't be fixed though. I'd say the days of widespread benefit fraud are coming to an end, which was inevitable as computerised systems come into play and agencies start cooperating with one another more closely.

Totally agree but lets have balance. Lets have honest, transparent government, lets have a fair society where people don't feel the need to lie and cheat just to get by and where the punishment fits the crime!