Women Drivers in some countries

BlancheSparks

I would like to know if women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia for religious or cultural reason. If the former, could someone tell me about this law. Thanks

fatal

Would women driving in the majority of "muslim" countries not sort of answer your question as to whether it is a religious or cultural thing in Saudi?

mmalaka

cultural reason

donaghs

The Saudis will tell you its an Islamic thing. So I suppose its down to interpretation?

There's a lot of stuff on the web which gives good reasons, within the confines of Islam, for women not to drive cars. Here's one example:
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/45880

On the other hand, motor cars were only invented in the late 19th c., and I (personally) think all the reasons listed in the above link are at best silly.

dvpower

donaghs wrote: »

On the other hand, motor cars were only invented in the late 19th c., and I (personally) think all the reasons listed in the above link are at best silly.

Silly? Comedic, I'd say.

When women drive it leads to overcrowding in the streets, or it deprives some young men of the opportunity to drive cars when they are more deserving of that.

It also leads to women going out of the house a great deal, but their homes are better for them – as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said – because those who love to drive enjoy it very much, hence you see them driving around in their cars here and there for no purpose, except to enjoy driving.

You may find a divorced woman going where she wants, whenever she wants and however she wants, for whatever purpose she wants, because she is alone in her car, at any time she wants of the day or night

It is a means of women rebelling against their families and husbands; at the least provocation they may go out of the house and drive in the car to wherever they think they can get some peace, as happens in the case of some young men, who are able to put up with more than women.

Overature

Its because in Islamic countries women are not seen as being part of the human race and therefore are not aloud drive or work of anything

mmalaka

Overature wrote: »

Its because in Islamic countries women are not seen as being part of the human race and therefore are not aloud drive or work of anything

this is comedic

How did you know that??

it is totally wrong....

The Recliner

Overature wrote: »

Its because in Islamic countries women are not seen as being part of the human race and therefore are not aloud drive or work of anything

Now even though I am Mod of this forum I know very little about Islam (I am just here to help out) although I am learning but even I know this is plainly not true

Now either back up your statements with some facts or make sure you next contribution to this forum is a useful one or your stay wont be a long one

irishconvert

Overature wrote: »

Its because in Islamic countries women are not seen as being part of the human race and therefore are not aloud drive or work of anything

Banned for breaking charter.

irishconvert

donaghs wrote: »

There's a lot of stuff on the web which gives good reasons, within the confines of Islam, for women not to drive cars. Here's one example:
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/45880

None of these are good reasons. I don't see anything in any of the verses quoted from the Qur'an that can be remotely used to justify banning women from driving. Some of the verses are taken out of context, e.g. al-Ahzaab 33:33. I would be very wary of the informaton on this site.

fatal

Overature wrote: »

Its because in Islamic countries women are not seen as being part of the human race and therefore are not aloud drive or work of anything

So what Islamic countries are you referring to again?

love for all

BlancheSparks wrote: »

I would like to know if women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia for religious or cultural reason. If the former, could someone tell me about this law. Thanks

in islam there is not any objection for driving as woman. but in saudi, that is there law not because of religion.

mmalaka

In Saudi it is not like this is written in the Law. I think outside big cities the women can drive.

It is just a cultural thing

BlancheSparks

Thanks every one. It seems to be how I thought. An outdated attitude probably similar to the one that prevailed here until very recently, although it didn't get carried to such extremes.
I can remember, when I was young (way back in the 60's:o ), and learning to drive, there was a widespread belief, based only on predudice, that 'women drivers' were an anathama (hope that's spelled right)
It does make me angry, but I am trying to be objective and find out more, before I make judgements based on predudice.

imported_guy

BlancheSparks wrote: »

Thanks every one. It seems to be how I thought. An outdated attitude probably similar to the one that prevailed here until very recently, although it didn't get carried to such extremes.
I can remember, when I was young (way back in the 60's:o ), and learning to drive, there was a widespread belief, based only on predudice, that 'women drivers' were an anathama (hope that's spelled right)
It does make me angry, but I am trying to be objective and find out more, before I make judgements based on predudice.

how is it different over here now?, its a good thing that women dont drive in saudi arabia, or else they would be getting the same abuse they do from male drivers over here (yes even today), a woman makes one mistake and people go mental with the honking LOL, even male learners dont get this sort of abuse....:rolleyes:

BlancheSparks

I Just managed to get to the website mentioned above.
I agree with the comments about the reasons being the height of silliness except that it has such serious results in the restriction of human rights. As usual, unreasonable and predujiced people have managed to hijack a religion or political system and bring it into disrepute.
I suppose that any religion or political party is wide open to this. Unfortunately, in some cases, these people gain the power to inflict their ideas on others.
I hope that the above is not against the rules of this website. I am not attacking islam specifically and realise such silliness and worse can arise in any system that will allow it.

Filan

That mentioned link seems very austere in it's judgments, have looked at it previously in relation to issues such as women and right to travel alone....and forbids it....appears very harsh to my ears.

Zaynzma

Filan wrote: »

That mentioned link seems very austere in it's judgments, have looked at it previously in relation to issues such as women and right to travel alone....and forbids it....appears very harsh to my ears.

I also find this website very harsh. I prefer Islamonline:

http://www.islamonline.co.uk/

There's a fatwa bank for checking rulings on various things, although I didn't manage to find one about women driving (there is no prohibition in Islam on women driving, and Allah knows best).

Filan

Yes just read a very tolerant, very enlightened section in Islam on Line and other religions. Has helped develop faith in the humanity of Muslims.

The forementioned link appears cruel towards women and demonstrates that Islam can be a force of censorship towards women when interpreted in a certain light, relatively liberating when interpreted differently. Clearly there is no universal interpretation...all are influenced by culture and personal feelings...

BlancheSparks

We (and I, as a woman), can pick and choose which website we look at, in this country, and what interpretation we choose. The trouble is that in countries where these things are put into law, human rights (of women in this case of driving) are contravened by them being put into law.
So to say that it seems a bit harsh or cruel does not fully recognise the implications of these otherwise ridiculous judgements. As I said before, it is a pity that people can hijack religion and politics in this way and it is up to the people of these religions to not allow it to happen..... oh except that the power has been taken away from them!!!!!!!!!!

colrow

Was it Karl Marx who said "Religion is the Opium of the People" .

That applies to all religons as far as I can see.

Zaynzma

BlancheSparks wrote: »

We (and I, as a woman), can pick and choose which website we look at, in this country, and what interpretation we choose. The trouble is that in countries where these things are put into law, human rights (of women in this case of driving) are contravened by them being put into law.
So to say that it seems a bit harsh or cruel does not fully recognise the implications of these otherwise ridiculous judgements. As I said before, it is a pity that people can hijack religion and politics in this way and it is up to the people of these religions to not allow it to happen..... oh except that the power has been taken away from them!!!!!!!!!!

Alhamdulillah the correct information is out there, so that the pretentions of some states to adhere to Islamic law (Saudi Arabia in this case) are exposed as false.

I don't get too aerated about these things any more - I would argue heatedly with anyone who tried to say women driving violated some Islamic law, but I've become really cynical in my middle age. My 'human right' to drive in this country doesn't do me much good as I can't afford it anyway, the powers that be have made it too cripplingly expensive. I would have loved to go to uni but again, it was not possible for financial reasons. My teeth are really bad because of not being able to afford private dental treatment. Don't I have a 'right' to an affordable dentist?

Rights are tricky things. What's the point in having 'rights' that may be there in theory but in practice are useless? Another example - my 5 year old doesn't go to school because there are no places in the local schools. He's on waiting lists. So much for his right to an education!

Anyway, going off topic now. Women shouldn't be prevented by law from driving, agreed. There is no Islamic justification for it whatsoever.

Filan

have recently read a book on western female reverts to Islam and can see both sides from the female perspective. Islam can be, but doesn't have to be a force of oppression for women. It depends on the mind of the woman herself, her morals and goals, also on the intreptation of the Sharia, which can vary substantially.

BlancheSparks

It wouldn't matter if the woman had a mind of her own... she wouldn't be allowed to drive if some control freak who interpreted Islam in that way, had his way and made it the law..... that's the point!!!!! the only people that can make up their own minds under these circumstances, are male and in a position of power.
Lets face it... you dont have to be clever or good to be male, it's just luck or otherwise, depending how you look at it. That is why sexism is wrong.
I am not talking about islam in general or even arguing that this is what it preaches... just pointing out that women not being allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia is not based on any sensible precept

littlesteps

mmalaka wrote: »

In Saudi it is not like this is written in the Law. I think outside big cities the women can drive.

It is just a cultural thing

I dont think we can logically and honestly say that something is "just" cultural, when it denies 50% of its population, a fundemental mode of transport. We will respect eachothers intelligence and call this what it is, a way for male dominence to prevail in a Patriarchial society. No more, no less. If one examines deeply what this law (laid down by men), deprives women, it goes much deeper than running out hte door when she is annoyed or upset. lets just call it what it is "controll" and the fear of loosing it. I have studied Islam a lot, think there are many beautiful things within it and this is nothing more than good old male suppression of women. Its basis is "FEAR" and has no place in Gods name. God is always just, it is only humans who are hippocritical in their falsehoods, God knows the hearts and minds of all men.

BlancheSparks

Thanks littlesteps, you put it in a nutshell.
It is the law that women are not allowed to drive in Saudi arabia. If anyone would like to see the 'reasons' given for this, a website was posted on page 1 of this thread.
The chopping off of hands, stoning and beheading in public must brutalize and desensitise people. Perhaps that is why some people seem to be converted to fundamentilism and horrific acts of murder in the name of islam.
The whole country's ethos seems to be medieval, as someone earlier put it and that combined with 'religious' thinking leads to all these suppressions of human rights, because the men are harshly treated too. It is all about power and keeping it.

imported_guy

BlancheSparks wrote: »

Thanks littlesteps, you put it in a nutshell.
It is the law that women are not allowed to drive in Saudi arabia. If anyone would like to see the 'reasons' given for this, a website was posted on page 1 of this thread.
The chopping off of hands, stoning and beheading in public must brutalize and desensitise people. Perhaps that is why some people seem to be converted to fundamentilism and horrific acts of murder in the name of islam.
The whole country's ethos seems to be medieval, as someone earlier put it and that combined with 'religious' thinking leads to all these suppressions of human rights, because the men are harshly treated too. It is all about power and keeping it.

this isnt to do anything with religion at all, alot of your mum's werent probably allowed to vote. just sayin'

BlancheSparks

think you need to read the whole thread imported guy

Zaynzma

BlancheSparks wrote: »

The chopping off of hands, stoning and beheading in public must brutalize and desensitise people. Perhaps that is why some people seem to be converted to fundamentilism and horrific acts of murder in the name of islam.

I'm not sure how we got from banning women drivers to criminal justice in Saudia and terrorism. However since we have, let me remind you all that people of every religion have committed horrific acts, sometimes in the name of their religion (heck, the bible mentions a few massacres, apparently carried out at the behest of "Jehovah").

We don't exactly live in a wonderful violence-free society here do we? Every day in the papers and on our streets - even in some of our homes - violent acts are committed. There are cases of children being horribly tortured and killed by their own family members - who then get a few years in prison and a new identity on their release 'for their safety'. So what has 'brutalised' and desensitised' those killers?

In case you want to make a distinction between murderers who kill just one or two people and those who bomb or shoot a crowd of people, let me tell you that Western armed forces quite calmly and calculatedly bomb people to bits in their 'wars', and that is every bit as murderously violent as a terrorist atrocity. I don't see any difference between blowing up a plane full of innocent (western) people and dropping bombs on a city full of innocent (middle-eastern) people. The west has done quite a lot of the latter in the last few years so don't try and tell me Middle Eastern countries or people are inherently more violent than western ones.

Anyway, I think the question posed in the first post has already been answered and I'm not sure why this thread has veered so off-topic.

imported_guy

BlancheSparks wrote: »

think you need to read the whole thread imported guy

read the 15th reply last one on 1st page. im subbed to this thread tbh i think youre the one who needs to read it argument has gone from women drivers in some countries to why religions are being interpeted the way they are

oh btw last time i checked son of god and servant of god in aramaic are the same phrases for those who unaware.

littlesteps

BlancheSparks wrote: »

Thanks littlesteps, you put it in a nutshell.
It is the law that women are not allowed to drive in Saudi arabia. If anyone would like to see the 'reasons' given for this, a website was posted on page 1 of this thread.
The chopping off of hands, stoning and beheading in public must brutalize and desensitise people. Perhaps that is why some people seem to be converted to fundamentilism and horrific acts of murder in the name of islam.
The whole country's ethos seems to be medieval, as someone earlier put it and that combined with 'religious' thinking leads to all these suppressions of human rights, because the men are harshly treated too. It is all about power and keeping it.

Thanks BlanchSparks, I dont feel in a position to judge another country, when our own is hardly a Utopia of Family life, where women are respected and the old are cherished and cared for. Yes, Saudi exercises strict Sharia laws. While I may not agree with the brutality of these laws, I have to say that we are the other end of the spectrum e.g. elderly people abused and asaulted in their own homes. As for womens rights and equality, the EU dragged this country kicking and screaming towards equality interms of women. Our grandmothers could not vote, our mothers where forced to leave work after marriage, men owned the family homes. Women through time everywhere have always struggled for equality. Actually, if you think for a moment I suspect that many Saudi men wish their wives could drive. Imagine having to do all the family driving, hospital visits, all responsibility falling on them. it cuts both ways. All the best to the sisters and brothers in saudi. It makes sense to mobilise 50% of the population, so as not to overly burden the other 50%. This is a call for saudi womem. Perhaps they are happy as they are!

imported_guy

littlesteps wrote: »

I suspect that many Saudi men wish their wives could drive. Imagine having to do all the family driving, hospital visits, all responsibility falling on them. it cuts both ways.

tbh alot of women actully probably wont drive because simply they "didnt want to" i know my mom doesnt, my dad got her sevral different cars now she has one with an automatic transmission and still cant pass the driving test after she has been driving for over 15 years some women just prefer to be chauffeured especially eastern women.

BlancheSparks

I am just testing!

BlancheSparks

Not being allowed to drive is not a trivial restriction. I don't know how you would carry on a normal life in the modern world without being allowed to drive. It is generally thought a severe penalty to have your driving licence taken away if you break the law!
I refered to the medieval mindset because it seemed a good comparison, bearing in mind the way our forbears carried on (and still do in some cases) in those times, in the name of religion. Hopefully we have moved on.
My father never drove a car in his whole life. It was his choice. If he wanted to go somewhere he did so by public transport or my mother drove him. He could go out whenever he wanted to, wearing whatever he wanted to, wherever he wanted to go. Very few people choose this way of life voluntarily. I do not imagine that 50% of the population of saudi arabia have voluntarily chosen this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/3618333/My-life-inside-the-Saudi-kingdom.html

irishconvert

Ok, this thread is just descending into a political discussion. The OP's question has been answered so I am closing it now.