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Students Poonion Hellections
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13-12-2009 12:13am#1
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lebowskilite
Thanks for the advice but like all forms of government or organisations the only way to disband said group is to follow its own rules set up to prevent such a move. Plus If I did run and god forbid beat the cool kids to get into their club I fear my absence from events in D2 and my lack of willingness to bag a gullible ents girl might lead to a vote of no confidence in my position as not upholding the traditions of UCDSU.
But I certainly wouldnt mind the all expenses paid trip to Blessington in 2010 to get locked on SU funds.
I would never get elected, those who actually want to help never get elected. I could pull up a list of failed candidates but im not bothered.
PS: you say "accused" you of being a first year like its a bad thing. Do you find it offensive to be a first year, are you a tad elitest?
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That links proves exactly what's wrong with the Students Unions, they no longer have relevance... Norris's entire argument for the union was that it had great relevance in the 60's & 70's and produced political and social icons..
Yeah, I think he wrote his article more out of a sense of obligation rather than anything else. Didn't have much heart in it. The other guy's article hit it on the nail, the SU are utterly useless. I hear he's a bit of a hunk btw...my lack of willingness to bag a gullible ents girl
Ah come on, we wont make you forego all of the perks of "supreme ruler of the SU" if you get voted
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Ginja Ninja wrote: »But your a bigger fool than they are if you just sit in your laurels complaining about something you've no notion of getting involved in.
Why would we get involved in something that we think is utterly useless?
Perfectly acceptable to complain about something that pretends to represent me. Especially when it is a defunct, wasteful, counterproductive, failed organisation.0 -
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lebowskilite
Thanks for the advice but like all forms of government or organisations the only way to disband said group is to follow its own rules set up to prevent such a move. Plus If I did run and god forbid beat the cool kids to get into their club I fear my absence from events in D2 and my lack of willingness to bag a gullible ents girl might lead to a vote of no confidence in my position as not upholding the traditions of UCDSU.
But I certainly wouldnt mind the all expenses paid trip to Blessington in 2010 to get locked on SU funds.
I would never get elected, those who actually want to help never get elected. I could pull up a list of failed candidates but im not bothered.
PS: you say "accused" you of being a first year like its a bad thing. Do you find it offensive to be a first year, are you a tad elitest?
Note the emphasis I put on accused, as I consider it to be irrelevant. In short, no, I am not elitist. But to illustrate what I was getting at I'll take a look at last years' elections thread:I have voted and now I dont care. First years please stop irrititating me as I walk through the arts block-
I am a student
I have voted
I know alot more about your candidate than you
I know alot more about the union than you
I have been here for four years thanks
Also apparently voting on the first day was up 62% on the same time last year.
Jaysus, Grimes, you don't seem to like them first years! I also doubt that "[you] Know alot more about [their] candidate then [them]" in most cases, but that's perhaps just me since I knew all the candidates I canvassed for well in advance of them announcing, and was well aware of their political leanings.
"I have been here for 4 years thanks" <--- That seems elitist. :P I joke, I joke. I'm still up for managing your Presidential campaign (a love-hate relationship developing?). Then again, I suppose its just as elitist as our final years only armani sunglasses policy.
Last year the SU spent €60K on the anti-Fees campaign, which, err, kinda worked. Obviously if you're against that campaign having happened that'll be of no comfort to you. The Union was mandated to do that by class reps, not career-manic evil monster daemon-lords from the Levantine abyss of doom.probably one of your better uses of student money...
Re: D2 and Ents Girls. When I defend the union, you won't find me defending all the tendencies of the Ents crew
. I've never pulled a 1st year (except when I WAS one), and certainly don't intend to now.
That said I do enjoy going to clubs that r full of my mates, even if they wouldn't be my preferred location of drink usually. I even ventured into Coppers recently. :eek:
Someone else spoke about getting first years involved and how they should go about it. Imo the union should aim to get first years involved from the off. If there were more involved, or even just aware of the daily goings-on, I'm sure you all agree the union would better serve its members that way (kinda like eurosceptics believing Lisbon to be a good treaty even though they're against the EU in general?). Just one of many issues it might be an idea to raise with a candidate. 0 -
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I cannot believe you actually quoted an old post in a new thread. Sigh you take this too seriously and that alone proves my point but ill have some fun with you anyway.lebowskilite wrote: »Note the emphasis I put on accused, as I consider it to be irrelevant. In short, no, I am not elitist. But to illustrate what I was getting at I'll take a look at last years' elections thread:
It was a joke, your complete lack of the ability to grasp humor makes me think your possible a member of labour youth? *another joke quoteboy*lebowskilite wrote: »Jaysus, Grimes, you don't seem to like them first years! I also doubt that "[you] Know alot more about [their] candidate then [them]" in most cases, but that's perhaps just me since I knew all the candidates I canvassed for well in advance of them announcing, and was well aware of their political leanings.
One thing that gets me more than the idiots who run is the idiots who canvas for them. Tell me did your lad get elected and change the world for the better?lebowskilite wrote: »"I have been here for 4 years thanks" <--- That seems elitist. :P I joke, I joke. I'm still up for managing your Presidential campaign (a love-hate relationship developing?). Then again, I suppose its just as elitist as our final years only armani sunglasses policy.
Im certainly not running for president if only to completly rewrite the constitution so that the union will act as a union and not a self appointed governing bodylebowskilite wrote: »Last year the SU spent €60K on the anti-Fees campaign, which, err, kinda worked. Obviously if you're against that campaign having happened that'll be of no comfort to you. The Union was mandated to do that by class reps, not career-manic evil monster daemon-lords from the Levantine abyss of doom.
Yeah and the Green's ass saving program for government had nothing to do with it. Oh and that reminds me how much is the reg fee going up by next year, and the postgrad fees. Yeah fight the man there!lebowskilite wrote: »Re: D2 and Ents Girls. When I defend the union, you won't find me defending all the tendencies of the Ents crew. I've never pulled a 1st year (except when I WAS one), and certainly don't intend to now.
Perhaps your ugly but good to know you recognise what union girls are like. Represents the great and noble tradition of minority representation there. Can you see that people outside the union see what their money goes on?lebowskilite wrote: »That said I do enjoy going to clubs that r full of my mates, even if they wouldn't be my preferred location of drink usually. I even ventured into Coppers recently. :eek:
Off topic?lebowskilite wrote: »Someone else spoke about getting first years involved and how they should go about it. Imo the union should aim to get first years involved from the off. If there were more involved, or even just aware of the daily goings-on, I'm sure you all agree the union would better serve its members that way (kinda like eurosceptics believing Lisbon to be a good treaty even though they're against the EU in general?). Just one of many issues it might be an idea to raise with a candidate.
Are you such an idealist that you dont see that first year class reps are routinely bullied by some of the more established figures of the union. An example I like to use is when a first year class rep came to me and said that when he approached the ents office looking for help organising an event he was pshysically pushed out of the office but also told to remember which way to vote in council if he wants further assistance from the SU.
The biggest waste of money in the entire university is the SU so I find it rich that they complain about anything. Pehaps thats why no one listens to them or gives a **** about their elections.0 -
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I cannot believe you actually quoted an old post in a new thread. Sigh you take this too seriously and that alone proves my point but ill have some fun with you anyway.
It was a joke, your complete lack of the ability to grasp humor makes me think your possible a member of labour youth? *another joke quoteboy*
Woah there Grimey! I didn't go trawling through, I simply remembered that post cos - and im not gonna lie just to keep the peace - of the absolute arrogance of it. It was a joke putting it up, I wasn't reacting properly (prediction, your next post will counter-counter accuse me of having no sense of humour)! **** sake man if I'd have wanted to I'd have torn you apart
that's right, that be fightin' talk.One thing that gets me more than the idiots who run is the idiots who canvas for them. Tell me did your lad get elected and change the world for the better?
Neither candidate put "change the world for the better" in their manifesto. I'm well aware of the constraints of office, heck its only the SU ffs, but the one that did get elected did a genuinely good job in my opinion.Im certainly not running for president if only to completly rewrite the constitution so that the union will act as a union and not a self appointed governing body
Self appointed, elected, governing body, kinda like, um, any form of government, anywhere. *Waves the Anarchist Flag*Yeah and the Green's ass saving program for government had nothing to do with it. Oh and that reminds me how much is the reg fee going up by next year, and the postgrad fees. Yeah fight the man there!
Ah now here, I thought we were going to make this a challenging exchange of wit! terribly predictable response. My equally predictable response: The latter half of the campaign was solely aimed at the Greens once we found out Batt O'Keeffe wasn't running for re-election to DE (that said, I'm not sure if he's actually retiring or if it was a filthy rumour spread by communists).
Also the reg. fee isn't going up, as far as I'm aware (i may be wrong).Perhaps your ugly
Now now, it's called standards. Also I note you assume I'm male (and str8, but that would be a fair assumption given the odds). *queue accusation of misogyny*good to know you recognise what union girls are like.
That misogyny card gets closer to the top of the deck... :PRepresents the great and noble tradition of minority representation there.
Damn... the misogyny card trumped by a reference to a noble ideal. Very good point.
Though, in its defence, the union has an LGBT, Women's, Disability Rights and International Students position. Yes yes yes these might often be used as springboards but if someone wants a sabbatical job they tend to do a good job on the springboard, which ain't a bad thing if the minority involved gets a good rep!! But yep, the lack of non-straight, or non-white, or non-men on the sabbatical team is getting embarrassing. Problem is, typically, women don't vote for women on a scale that men do.Can you see that people outside the union see what their money goes on?
Tis my money too, and I feel equally horrified if/when it is misspent. That's an incentive for better governance, but not necessarily disbanding.Off topic?
Sorry Mother *Dry Alan Rickman Voice*Are you such an idealist that you dont see that first year class reps are routinely bullied by some of the more established figures of the union.
Fuzzle that shizzle. I've had attempts made at securing my loyalty/obeyance over the years, and I've shoved them back. Coming to college is about individualism, and I definitely won't be voting against my conscience because someone "higher up" says so. The truth is that the only ppl higher than you are your constituents anyway. The constitution gives allows classes to mandate their reps, and that needs to be put into action, with the reps themselves encouraging it.
It's all politics, though. If you feel you have no influence as a floating representative, get visibly allied with a persona or group that you most agree with. That isn't unique to an SU obviously, it's an inherent part of any democratic organisation. Also it works two ways. Around about this time there'll be officers looking to run for election, and you can milk them for everything in that period. The odd bit o food + drink was always my fave.
Ok, I'll admit. part of that WAS an outburst. But most of this post is light-hearted or at-least low blood-pressured.An example I like to use is when a first year class rep came to me and said that when he approached the ents office looking for help organising an event he was pshysically pushed out of the office but also told to remember which way to vote in council if he wants further assistance from the SU.
In which case the class rep should've brought it up at council. If it was last year they'd have received a lot of support from the crazy lefties. If it was in years gone before that, other sabbats would've rallied around them. There's also the college papers, telling you class, etc. As for the repercussions, forgive me if I don't quake in my boots at the prospect of an ents officer having a grudge against me.
Yes, Grimes, I am an idealist, in that I seek ideals. I am, however, not naive. I'm well aware of how power structures operate. You said you wanted to re-write the constitution to make the Su "act as Union not a self-appointed governing body" but tell me, what would you actually put in the constitution?The biggest waste of money in the entire university is the SU so I find it rich that they complain about anything. Pehaps thats why no one listens to them or gives a **** about their elections.
"That's like, your opinion, man." -The Dude
Also, highest turnout in any Irish student election last year( ~6000). So a big raspberry to you, sir! :P
Donal Hanratty made a good point last year when he said that the amount of students actually on-campus during those two days likely doesn't exceed 10'000-12'000.
DISCLAIMER - aimed at Grimes - I DO have a sense of humour, it's routed in deep sarcasm and occasional satire. Hence, it's completely bloody useless on the internet because it doesn't get communicated well.
*End on standard Your Ma Joke*
**Delayed Response to Labour Youth thing, much grumbling, etc., bloody socialists, ruined Eastern Europe blah blah, how dare you, im a good honest FGer etc. etc. etc.**0 -
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1,2,3,4 I declare a quote war.
lebowskilite I do very much enjoy our exchanges. Its makes a change when I say things to peoples faces and get told im just a hater!
Im just going to make some points rather than go quotehappy.- You made the point that candidates have done a good job however Its pretty obvious the Union has been quite on all fronts this year. Considering that the current welfare and education officers have hardly made a sustained appearance at the exams this year leaving the SU stand to be maintained entirely by the Campaigns and Comms officer.
- Speaking of campaigns and comms we all know what happend recently backfired on the SU. An attempt to oust the addmittedly crap postgrad officer from her position was frustrated by the removal of support by the C&C officer for the motion. In a moment of freakish timing a sabat officer who shall remain nameless sent an anon email to the observer with false information regarding R.Ryan's eligibility to be elected in the firstplace. Is this how the sabats do business, it certainly appears that way to the outsider. Very political, pitty it failed miserably.
- The reg fee is going up, by quite a hefty whack. Its all quiet at the moment but the postgrads have started a movement about it. The union are calling the fee thing a vistory when next year you may aswell be paying fees. You can quote this in 12 months
- Regarding the depiction of union chicks (entsgurlz) if stating the blatant truth is mysogony than BAM, a mysogonist I am.
- Your arguement regarding the Su being a political system of alliances is true but that is not what the Su is supposed to be. There in lies the issue. The politics MUST be removed for the union in order for it to function effectively. Im not going to out and out blame the KBC for this but the lefties have had their hand in it also. I would also BAN donations from clubs ect to sabats. I think thats a disgrace.
Im well aware the union wont get dismantled and the constitution rewritten. There are too many people who have made a nice little profitable home there. I dont even care that much and chose to ignore it but when it pops up here and elsewhere I will say all of this. But I have to say it cannot be ignored that the organisation is sick to the core and is a breeding ground for the future criminal politicians of Ireland and for that reason alone should be whiped out.doorknob_opener wrote: »That's an interesting point Ginja Ninja, but how exactly would you, or anybody else who may know for that matter, suggest getting involved if you are not a class rep? (this is coming from a naive first year who believes the best in everything and has hopes to change things).
I worked for the union, I know people involved and Im mates with a current sabat (who I asked to read this thread haha). Keep educated and dont be bullied. As long as your not interested in impressing the UCD celebs or care about going to D2 you can do much more than by being one of their backbenchers. You can change things in UCD by setting up your own group you dont have to go through the Union.
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I worked for the union, I know people involved and Im mates with a current sabat (who I asked to read this thread haha). Keep educated and dont be bullied. As long as your not interested in impressing the UCD celebs or care about going to D2 you can do much more than by being one of their backbenchers. You can change things in UCD by setting up your own group you dont have to go through the Union.
UCD celebs? I'm afraid I don't know who they are, but nope, no particular interest in them anyway. As for D2, I have ventured there many atime...don't hold it against me.
I don't understand how a group can be started that will somehow be more influential than the Union? If you wanted to make a change (I've tried to rephrase this but it manages to sound corny every time), wouldn't getting involved with the Union and changing it be the way to go?
Also, in terms of getting involved, wouldn't waltzing into their hallway and trying just to talk make the waltzer out to be a complete tool? (I'm just asking, because I'm in 1st year and don't really know how things work!) Or do people actually do that? I've talked to one of the Sabbat guys and he seemed nice enough but it wasn't union talk and it wasn't even in UCD (to be honest I was only told who he was a few hours later, though he had looked familiar!)and another one of the famous five managed to hook up with my friend so, arkward much there!0 -
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lebowskilite wrote: »Could an alternative organisation avoid engaging in internal politics, and yet be democratic?
Personally I think modern democracy is flawed and corrupt and built around centuries of corruption but yes. Perhaps a small committee of equals (non of this vice-president for stuff) acting as a UNION for students rather than a system based on the national government and promoting internal politics.
Perhaps Ill go for campaigns and communications officer? What you think Lebowskilite? 0 -
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haha. Woah. Now we're reforming modern democracy. Replacing VPs with a council of equals? I like it... Where can I get what you're on, it sounds gas!
I'd support you only on the basis that you were going to get rid of Belfield FM I'm sure you'd obviously prefer that to be gone anyways, waster of student funds, elite clique, self appointed somethings... 0 -
lebowskilite wrote: »haha. Woah. Now we're reforming modern democracy. Replacing VPs with a council of equals? I like it... Where can I get what you're on, it sounds gas!
I'd support you only on the basis that you were going to get rid of Belfield FM I'm sure you'd obviously prefer that to be gone anyways, waster of student funds, elite clique, self appointed somethings...
Ha ha yeah it is a piss waste of students money, so .. your arguement is that modern systems of representation are so corrupt and flawed therefore its okay for the SU to model itself on the same but also to model itself on a system of government when it is no such thing like a government but seems to give the impression it is? Are we still all confused about the definition of "union" However Belfield FM never appointed its own staff, they were interviewed by a panel most of whom have experience and are employees of the college.It is a paid position so its too important to be left to the likes of student politics to decide who gets it. Self appointed nothings! It has recently become a joke and a massive waste of money and extremely cliquey. Ive nothing to do with it anymore so my hands are clean!
Regarding "what im on" I was pulling an idea for a better system of student representation out of my ass at last second so dont take my musings on that as gospel. However Im not a politician and think that running of the country and people's lives should be removed from the snakelike world of politics and the SU which has nothing to do with the running of anything, no one listens to it and it has virtually no power other than to hand out a few free sub standard johnies a few times a year should not fund the mini snake's political fantasies.
I also recently learned that your name should be in the OP's post! And best of luck to you, I really mean it. But I certainly dont see you agreeing with me on any points of the above, not with an election coming up and a chached google history 0 -
Ha ha yeah it is a piss waste of students money, so .. your arguement is that modern systems of representation are so corrupt and flawed therefore its okay for the SU to model itself on the same but also to model itself on a system of government when it is no such thing like a government but seems to give the impression it is? Are we still all confused about the definition of "union" However Belfield FM never appointed its own staff, they were interviewed by a panel most of whom have experience and are employees of the college.It is a paid position so its too important to be left to the likes of student politics to decide who gets it. Self appointed nothings! It has recently become a joke and a massive waste of money and extremely cliquey. Ive nothing to do with it anymore so my hands are clean!
Regarding "what im on" I was pulling an idea for a better system of student representation out of my ass at last second so dont take my musings on that as gospel. However Im not a politician and think that running of the country and people's lives should be removed from the snakelike world of politics and the SU which has nothing to do with the running of anything, no one listens to it and it has virtually no power other than to hand out a few free sub standard johnies a few times a year should not fund the mini snake's political fantasies.
I also recently learned that your name should be in the OP's post! And best of luck to you, I really mean it. But I certainly dont see you agreeing with me on any points of the above, not with an election coming up and a chached google history
my name is in the OP, but I can tell you now the OP is wrong.
The point i was going to make is that a union has to be governed. in that way, all unions have a form of government. What I'm trying to get you to admit is that, while the form of government may be flawed, the students' union as a body needs to be retained. Obviously the same goes for Befield FM, the University Observer, etc. Good ideas, and we need to concentrate on making/keeping them good.
Also, y'know, pulling 1st years. that needs to stop.
And perhaps give out real condoms, not chocolate ones.0
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