Boss is not paying what is written in my contract!

Noodles5

Hi Guys,
Im planning to go to the citizens information centre on Monday or the Ombudsman... Just wanted to get some advice first if someone has been in the same position as me..
I started a new job 6 weeks ago and was given the impression that it was going to turn into a permanent position however this wasnt the case...
I was informed during the week that I had one weeks notice on Monday evening by a phone call which was then followed up by an email. Because I had finished work on Monday at the time (the call was after business hours) I really only got 4 days notice. In my contract it states that they have to give me 10 days notice, however nothing in the contract can stop them giving you less notice once it is mutually agreed with me and my employer. I never agreed to a weeks / 4 days notice, I was told thats what I was getting.
Also in my contract it states my salary. However, I have been paid 4 weeks at a figure which is 6k less than what it says in my contract and 2 weeks at the rate in my contract.
Its pretty clear that my boss has money problems and I was only hired to get some accounts in for a few weeks... he couldnt actually afford to pay me.
Not only has he done this but his behaviour is apalling, I have several texts and emails from him that are totally unprofessional. Ive never had to deal with someone like this before, nor have I been treated this way by an employer which is why I will take this further!

Any advice from anyone whos been in a similar position would be great...

Thanks

wmpdd3

To be honest with the short amount of time in question your employer could end your employment. At best you could argue for payment of the 6 days left in you notice and the difference in wages.

Would your employer be in a position to pay this money if a court ordered him to? You will probably be refered to NERA so may as well call them Monday.

Mrs OBumble

What do you want to see happen? Is this about getting the money? Or avenging his unprofessional behaviour (and what would it take)? Or warning other people in your town about him? Or ...

You'e been treated horribly badly, and I do sympathise.

But doing something about it will take a lot of effort, and (if you're not in a union) euros from you for lawyers. You need to think very hard about what you want to achieve, and whether it will be worth it.

Sorry I can't be more positive, but the employee is the "little guy" in many of these situations, and often doesn't come out a winner.

Noodles5

Well he owes me the money from the difference in pay... It's the fact that he's been getting away with treating people the way he has... I'm the first person to stand up to him. I'm pretty sure the ombudsman is cheap but don't know a whole lot about it.. I remember learning some stuff in school years ago!!! I know it will take months but will hopefully stop this man acting the way he does!

Mrs OBumble

Good on you then. And good luck.

(There's one boss in my career who I really wish we'd all stood up to, even though in hingsight it would have been really unpleasant at the time.)

Noodles5

Thanks justmary! I will keep this updated, hopefully might help someone else who may be in a similar position. The ball will start rolling tomorrow!!

Noodles5

Ok so.... I went to the citizens information centre, they rang my boss and queried when he was going to pay up, think it scared him a bit because he is such a crook!
They were really helpful and gave me loads of info and said any problems like this would be directed to the dept of trade, enterprise and employment and also the labour relations commissioner.
He owed me over €1400 so I sent him details of where this figure came from... I gave him a deadline of today to pay it all otherwise I was going straight to the LRC, he has paid almost half of it, along with some abusive texts on his part...
Am going to make the complaint to the LRC now.

Has anyone had any dealings with the LRC, how long does it take etc?
Any info would be great!

Sangre

Its a simple Payment of Wages claim. Very straight forward for a lay person to take.

ScouseMouse

I sympathise, I really do, but is your boss/ex boss in a position to pay it.

Does he have it?

Getting an order to get your money is one thing, but does he actually have it to give you?

If not, no amount of inspectors, courts or lawyers will be able to help you.

Good Luck.

_michelle_

superscouse wrote: »

I sympathise, I really do, but is your boss/ex boss in a position to pay it.

Does he have it?

Getting an order to get your money is one thing, but does he actually have it to give you?

If not, no amount of inspectors, courts or lawyers will be able to help you.

Good Luck.

while i understand what you saying i really think in this day & age you should stand your ground & try all you can to get your money, to many "big guys" are taking the piss with "little guys" who dont stand up to them! best of luck hope you get all that is owed to you!

Noodles5

Thanks guys,
superscouse - yes he certainly does have the money! He's just a cowboy, he set up businesses and waits till they get struck off the register instead of filing returns.. Then opens another company to do the same job! The more I think about it the more i can see the gaps in what he has done! Would love to get him audited!;)
_michelle_ - yup, he is exactly as you have described, he thinks he's a big shot even though he has a string of failed business, talks down to people and he has insulted me several times.. This is all because I'm standing up for myself?! Thankfully I have more respect for myself and haven't stooped to his level but I have all the abuse and insults saved if it gets to court!

He keeps saying he didn't agree to the contract.. But he sent it to me via email... If he didn't agree why would he write it up and mail it to me??!! The man hasn't got a clue!!

ScouseMouse

Noodles5 wrote: »

Thanks guys,
superscouse - yes he certainly does have the money! He's just a cowboy, he set up businesses and waits till they get struck off the register instead of filing returns.. Then opens another company to do the same job! The more I think about it the more i can see the gaps in what he has done! Would love to get him audited!;)
_michelle_ - yup, he is exactly as you have described, he thinks he's a big shot even though he has a string of failed business, talks down to people and he has insulted me several times.. This is all because I'm standing up for myself?! Thankfully I have more respect for myself and haven't stooped to his level but I have all the abuse and insults saved if it gets to court!

He keeps saying he didn't agree to the contract.. But he sent it to me via email... If he didn't agree why would he write it up and mail it to me??!! The man hasn't got a clue!!

Go get 'im !

Noodles5

Noodles5 wrote: »

Ok so.... I went to the citizens information centre, they rang my boss and queried when he was going to pay up, think it scared him a bit because he is such a crook!
They were really helpful and gave me loads of info and said any problems like this would be directed to the dept of trade, enterprise and employment and also the labour relations commissioner.
He owed me over €1400 so I sent him details of where this figure came from... I gave him a deadline of today to pay it all otherwise I was going straight to the LRC, he has paid almost half of it, along with some abusive texts on his part...
Am going to make the complaint to the LRC now.

Has anyone had any dealings with the LRC, how long does it take etc?
Any info would be great!

He just told me he didn't pay what he said he did on friday, he wants me to agree on the amount worked at the lower rate for him to pay me at all....
How can this man not see it's illegal to withold pay??
Application going straight to the lrc in the morning! :cool:

Noodles5

Bit of an update...
The issue went all the way to the Labour Court at the end of April, things went well, I was almost fully prepared (I just had to fax off p45 & payslips to the rights comissioner later that day!)
My boss didnt show up he sent his brother to the hearing instead who turned up 40 mins late!!! :mad: He had nothing with him except for his phone!!
Just waiting on a decision, I was told 6 weeks and its just over 6 weeks now, does anyone know how long its supposed to take? I think I will ring them on Monday anyway.

wmpdd3

Wow i'm impressed, I didn't think your case would come up so soon, or that a period of employment as short as that would merit a case in the LRC. Great to know.

How did the case go, were you put on the stand? were you challenged at all by the judge?

Noodles5

Yeah they reckon about 6 weeks to get a date and then 6 weeks until the date of the hearing.
It was in a room in the labour court, just myself, my boyfriend (for moral support), the rights comissioner and my employers brother there. The comissioner introduced herself and let me give my version of events, I printed put all emails, texts, the contract etc and had 3 copies of everything. Then my employers brother was asked to give his version... He read through a text or two... And then the comissioner had a good few questions for us.
The nerves went out the window when I started reading through my version of events!
The decision will be posted out, hopefully I'll get it soon!

watna

Thanks for keeping us informed. I remember reading this thread originally and it's great when posters come back to let us know what happened. It really is invaluable.

the bolt

Noodles5 wrote: »

Thanks guys,
superscouse - yes he certainly does have the money! He's just a cowboy, he set up businesses and waits till they get struck off the register instead of filing returns.. Then opens another company to do the same job! The more I think about it the more i can see the gaps in what he has done! Would love to get him audited!;)
_michelle_ - yup, he is exactly as you have described, he thinks he's a big shot even though he has a string of failed business, talks down to people and he has insulted me several times.. This is all because I'm standing up for myself?! Thankfully I have more respect for myself and haven't stooped to his level but I have all the abuse and insults saved if it gets to court!

He keeps saying he didn't agree to the contract.. But he sent it to me via email... If he didn't agree why would he write it up and mail it to me??!! The man hasn't got a clue!!

just a quick question for you ,if this mans such a cowboy why did you go to work for him?

wmpdd3

Thanks OP, I really didn't think you could get the LRC in for such an amount so it's great to know exactly what happens.

Good luck with the outcome.

Noodles5

watna wrote: »

Thanks for keeping us informed. I remember reading this thread originally and it's great when posters come back to let us know what happened. It really is invaluable.

No probs.... hopefully it might help someone in a similar position at some stage!!

Noodles5

the bolt wrote: »

just a quick question for you ,if this mans such a cowboy why did you go to work for him?

Umm.. if I knew what I know now about him I wouldnt have taken the job in the first place....! All of the revelations about his previous companies came after I was given my notice and didnt get paid!

Noodles5

So.....
I got the decision from the rights commissioner today! All went in my favour and he has been ordered to pay me the full amount owed!
He has 6 weeks to appeal and if I dont receive the payment by the 6 weeks I have been advised to bring the case to the circuit court where they will issue a court order... hope it doesnt get that far but at least its almost over now!!

LegacyUser

So how did you get on? Did you former employer pay up with the six weeks or will you have to get the decision enforced in the Circuit Court?

Mervin J Minky

So any more news? Did your employer pay up or will you have to get a court order?

Clauric

Just came across this thread now. Very glad to see OP is got what she needed, assuming that the boss pays up. I would think that it is unlikely based upon the previous posts.

As an additional method of reinforcing your determination to stand up to your exboss, I would speak to the Director of Corporate Enforcement. If the person is a cowboy, as you say, the Director would be perfectly positioned to deal with this situation.

eejoynt

dont get mad get even
send a copy of the recommendation to the

Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement mentioning previous companies

and the
Special Enquiries Branch of the Revenue Commissioners at the headquarter address

Mervin J Minky

How exactly would the Director of Corporate Enforcement be able to help in a situation like this?

Clauric

If a company director is running a company, there are certain onuses and expectations on him/her. A company that deliberately closes down and reopens, in order to avoid creditors, is acting in an illegal manner (1963 Companies Act).

In this situation, if the director closes the company in order to avoid a creditor/liability eg court order, the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement can conduct a review of the director, and the company. If they find that the company and or its directors have acted in an illegal or dishonest manner, they can be fined, restricted or barred from company ownership or directorship.

Mervin J Minky

Ah I see what you mean, I thought you meant that he could help enforce the decision of the Rights Commissioner and maybe slap the MD with a fine for acting like an idiot.

Just out of curiosity could someone make an anonymous claim to the Director of Corporate Enforcement in regards to a small Irish business that has been shafting people for years (staff and suppliers) and more then likely has some dodgy tax returns/books, etc?

Clauric

Purely theoretically (and without prejudice), the best place to go for dodgy tax books is Revenue. Generally speaking, they take pleasure in catching employers and companies evading tax. ODCE would prosecute directors of companies, and almost certainly win, with it was able to prove that the books of account (record books) were falsely maintained (under all Companies Acts in Ireland, that is normally the first crime mentioned). As for anonymous reporting, Revenue, from what I understand, have no real qualms about taking anonymous reports. ODCE would, more than likely, be informed by Revenue.

If the company is "shafting" employees, your first port of call should be NERA. They are best positioned to advise you on your legal rights.

Noodles5

Mervin J Minky wrote: »

So any more news? Did your employer pay up or will you have to get a court order?

So the 6 weeks he had to pay were up today... Luckily enough I had a half day in work so I rang the circuit court and they advised me about what to do next. I had to go into them and fill out a few forms, I then had to go to a solicitor and get her to sign the affidavit I filled out. I then had to go back to the circuit court where they took the forms ad they send it off. The lady there was very helpful and said if I don't receive anything in a few weeks to call them back.
So my ex boss will receive an execution order and my affidavit hopefully on Tuesday morning!!

Noodles5

eejoynt wrote: »

dont get mad get even
send a copy of the recommendation to the

Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement mentioning previous companies

and the
Special Enquiries Branch of the Revenue Commissioners at the headquarter address

The recommendation doesn't say anything about his previous companies although they are on the c.r.o online.. Which I can print off!
what would I have to do... Just send a letter or...?

InReality

op - fair play for doing all this. yer man might treat people better in the future !

Noodles5

InReality wrote: »

op - fair play for doing all this. yer man might treat people better in the future !

Thanks!

To be honest I don't think he will change, the other people that work for him just keep their mouths closed....
There was no way I was letting him away with talking to me or treat me like that!!
I'm pretty sure he thought I would have given up by now!

spinandscribble

its great to see someone chasing someone like this. People like your boss rely on others to be too tired/weak/nervous to stand their ground.

Mervin J Minky

PM sent!

Jo King

Noodles5 wrote: »

So my ex boss will receive an execution order and my affidavit hopefully on Tuesday morning!!

Your boss will not receive an execution order on Tuesday morning!. the case will have to be listed before a judge and your boss will be entitled to put in a replying affidavit. The order has to be made by a judge in open court. After that it is signed.

Noodles5

Jo King wrote: »

Your boss will not receive an execution order on Tuesday morning!. the case will have to be listed before a judge and your boss will be entitled to put in a replying affidavit. The order has to be made by a judge in open court. After that it is signed.

I rang them today they said there was a back log in sending out execution orders so it will be sent in the next two weeks.

Because its a payment of wages claim it doesnt have to be made by a judge in open court. It was signed the day I handed it in. Any other type of claim has to be made in an open court just not the payment of wages!

Mervin J Minky

Jo King wrote: »

Your boss will not receive an execution order on Tuesday morning!. the case will have to be listed before a judge and your boss will be entitled to put in a replying affidavit. The order has to be made by a judge in open court. After that it is signed.

That's completely untrue. Under the Payment of Wages act you can proceed to get Judgement in the Circuit Civil Court Office without an application to the court.

Jo King

Section 8 of Payment of wages Act. No mention of Circuit Court office.

8.—(1) A decision of a rights commissioner, or a determination of the Tribunal, made in proceedings under this Act may be enforced as if it were an order of the Circuit Court made in civil proceedings by the judge of the Circuit Court for the place wherein the person in whose favour the decision or determination was made ordinarily resides.


( 2 ) ( a ) A decision of a rights commissioner, and a determination of the Tribunal, in proceedings under this Act may provide that the decision or determination shall be carried out before a specified date.


( b ) Where a decision of a rights commissioner or a determination of the Tribunal does not so provide, it shall be deemed, for the purposes of this section, to provide that it shall be carried out within 6 weeks from the date on which it is communicated to the parties concerned.

Circuit Court Rules. Order 64B

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/6cc6644045a5c09a80256db700399505/42e61d44803cd9618025768e005a5706?OpenDocument

Noodles5

Jo King wrote: »

Section 8 of Payment of wages Act. No mention of Circuit Court office.

8.—(1) A decision of a rights commissioner, or a determination of the Tribunal, made in proceedings under this Act may be enforced as if it were an order of the Circuit Court made in civil proceedings by the judge of the Circuit Court for the place wherein the person in whose favour the decision or determination was made ordinarily resides.


( 2 ) ( a ) A decision of a rights commissioner, and a determination of the Tribunal, in proceedings under this Act may provide that the decision or determination shall be carried out before a specified date.


( b ) Where a decision of a rights commissioner or a determination of the Tribunal does not so provide, it shall be deemed, for the purposes of this section, to provide that it shall be carried out within 6 weeks from the date on which it is communicated to the parties concerned.

Circuit Court Rules. Order 64B

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/6cc6644045a5c09a80256db700399505/42e61d44803cd9618025768e005a5706?OpenDocument

Yes but I have went through all of that.. recieved the decision from the lrc which took 6 weeks. My ex employer had another 6 weeks to pay which he didnt so as a result you HAVE to go to the circuit court to get the decision enforced, they enforce it by sending out an execution order. Which is what I did 3 weeks ago.

Jo King

Noodles5 wrote: »

Yes but I have went through all of that.. recieved the decision from the lrc which took 6 weeks. My ex employer had another 6 weeks to pay which he didnt so as a result you HAVE to go to the circuit court to get the decision enforced, they enforce it by sending out an execution order. Which is what I did 3 weeks ago.

Have you read the Circuit Court rules? There has to be an oral hearing when the court considers your affidavit. I have been in the Circuit Court on oral hearings.

Noodles5

Jo King wrote: »

Have you read the Circuit Court rules? There has to be an oral hearing when the court considers your affidavit. I have been in the Circuit Court on oral hearings.

Im going by what they told me themselves and that was that for a payment of wages claim there does not have to be a hearing. Payment of wages enforcement is treated differently.

Mervin J Minky

Jo King wrote: »

Have you read the Circuit Court rules? There has to be an oral hearing when the court considers your affidavit. I have been in the Circuit Court on oral hearings.

An oral hearing for what??? A Rights Commissioner has already heard the case and reached a decision so the next step is to get the Rights Commissioners decision enforced through the Circuit Court Office. Like I said already in my last post, it doesn't even have to go to court because the Circuit Court Office has the authority to receive an Affidavit, then endorse and submit an execution order without the need for the actual Circuit Court (ie: a judge) to get involved at all.

Jo King

Mervin J Minky wrote: »

An oral hearing for what??? A Rights Commissioner has already heard the case and reached a decision so the next step is to get the Rights Commissioners decision enforced through the Circuit Court Office. Like I said already in my last post, it doesn't even have to go to court because the Circuit Court Office has the authority to receive an Affidavit, then endorse and submit an execution order without the need for the actual Circuit Court (ie: a judge) to get involved at all.

You also said this was provided for in the Payment of Wages Act. Where?
Considering an affidavit is a judicial act. A civil servant cannot do it. The o/p will find this out shortly.

Mervin J Minky

Hey, any more updates on this situation? I've been waiting 2 weeks now and have heard nothing so far.

Noodles5

Hey Mervin J Minky,
im actually on hols for the past week and a half, will be home early next week so fingers crossed there will be something in the post, if not I will be straight onto the circuit court. They told me to call back anyway!! Id say itll be a couple more weeks before you will hear anything though.
Ill post an update when I get home and am talking to the circuit court and let you know!

Mervin J Minky

Thanks Noodles5, enjoy the rest of your holiday and hopefully you will have a nice surprise waiting for you when you come back.

Noodles5

Jo King wrote: »

You also said this was provided for in the Payment of Wages Act. Where?
Considering an affidavit is a judicial act. A civil servant cannot do it. The o/p will find this out shortly.

So I rang the Circuit Court today and they told me that I have to ring the Sherriff now to get things sorted out because my execution order has been ignored. I will call them first thing in the morning and update then.

Noodles5

Noodles5 wrote: »

So I rang the Circuit Court today and they told me that I have to ring the Sherriff now to get things sorted out because my execution order has been ignored. I will call them first thing in the morning and update then.

Been given the run around with the Ciruit Court... not finding the people there too helpful!

Rang the Sherriff... no record of the execution order... they told me to check eith the CC if it was sent out....

Rang the CC and they told me they were up to 29th July... I went in on the 30th. The guy said it would be done shortly, it would get signed and sent out to the Sherriff within the next week.

Rang the Sherriff back told them what the CC said and asked what happens next? The woman told me that as soon as they receive it the send a letter to my ex employer giving him 7 days to pay up. If he doesnt pay up then the assigned Sherriff calls out to the business... :cool:

She told me I could ring anytime to check the status of it or if I wanted to talk to the actual Sherriff myself. She was very helpful I must say!

It will take roughly 3 more weeks and should be all sorted then.... its taken a while but ill get there!!!!

dirtyghettokid

I can't believe it's even gone this far! Back ten years ago, I had a very similar situation. I too, went through the LRC & he did not show up on the day. Of course, they found he was guilty and was ordered to pay up. Luckily for me he did before the deadline! I can't believe you have not got this sorted out yet. Fair play for keeping the fight moving though! Don't let these creeps win!