Trying to understand Suicide

ConnachtRanger1

Hi All
I would like to put out a serious question to you. Why are so many young men in this country taking their own lives? More men die by their own hands each year than in road accidents, yet it seems it is something we as a society dont want to know about. I suffer from a chronic medical problem and a few years back I considered suicide. The only thing that deterred me was the effect it would have had on my family. I would just like to hear from people (men and women) what they think some of the causes and/or solutions to this hidden problem are. I am fully aware that many young women commit suicide every year too and I would also welcome some feedback on that.

Silverfish

Moved from PI

mikemac

Very little understanding of the issue, didn't some TD (and possibly a medical doctor) calls people who commit sucide selfish bastards?
I think it it was Jim McDaid from Donegal. And that's from a doctor!

You tell your neighbour you have cancer and they will be concerned for you.
You tell them you have depression and you'll be told to pull yourself together, quit your moaning and look at how others are much worse off then you.
But you didn't choose to have either and both need medical help, through drugs and with support & counseling. Or maybe just one of these but definitly some of sort of help, whatever kind you that works for you

silverharp

if you look at page 10 there is a table for the EU of suicide rate. Ireland seems to be in the middle of the range

http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_determinants/life_style/mental/docs/consensus_depression_en.pdf

mikemac

mikemac wrote: »

Very little understanding of the issue, didn't some TD (and possibly a medical doctor) calls people who commit sucide selfish bastards?

And the truth is, people who commit suicide are usually so sick, that they really believe what they are doing is for the best. The think they are doing their loved ones a favour.

Ickle Magoo

Deleted User wrote: »

And the truth is, people who commit suicide are usually so sick, that they really believe what they are doing is for the best. The think they are doing their loved ones a favour.

So true.

My friend killed herself & I was the last one to speak to her, called the police to kick her door in when she wouldn't answer the door or my calls. She was so depressed and we spent weeks ferrying her to doctors and making sure she took medication and talking all night long - she said that she was a burden & annoying her family and friends and nothing we could say would convince her otherwise.

In her suicide note she did nothing but apologise. She was one of the funniest, cleverest, brilliant people I have ever had the honour of calling my friend and she was so sick, she thought she was a worthless scourge on society.

Depression is a terrible sickness and I think a bit more honesty, de-stigmatisation and empathy would go a long way - and education that being a bit blue and being so chemically impaired that you can't take another step in life are not one and the same thing. :mad:

trench foot

I think some people come to the conclusion in some part of their lives that the world is a selfish heartless place.

mikemac

Suicide: The rational decision of an irrational mind
It seemed right (or the best of possible options) to the person who choose it and they most likely believed they had failed their family and friends and the world would be better off without them.
And this is how people who are successful, intelligent and everything in life going for them do this.

Depression is much like any other issue, it can be treated and resolved.
But there is a stigma. A person with cancer and a person with mental health issues will be viewed very, very differently by many people even if they both are suffering and both need help

Latchy

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

In her suicide note she did nothing but apologise. She was one of the funniest, cleverest, brilliant people I have ever had the honour of calling my friend and she was so sick, she thought she was a worthless scourge on society.
Depression is a terrible sickness and I think a bit more honesty, de-stigmatisation and empathy would go a long way - and education that being a bit blue and being so chemically impaired that you can't take another step in life are not one and the same thing. :mad:

I really think that that ( highlighted ) is the whol'e crux of the problem for many suicides and would be, feeling or being made to feel you are worthless . Can you imagine how many depressed people who may look in on AH and see the daily counteless threads about wasters , unemployed ,scroungers ,etc and come away thinking 'That's me , I fit into those brackets ' which just might as in your friends situation ,influence them in the direction of suicide

Some people may have toyed around with committing sucide long before actually going ahead and doing it .The emotional and sometimes physical pain in their lives must be so strong , the desire for oblivion is so overwhelming .I know of one person who because of the severe illness is in a constant state of pain ,numbed only by taking a daily cocktail of drugs .She has actually told me that she sometimes wish's she didn't wake up .Who could blame her ? She has family but no children , impossible in her condition which she has had since she was a teen ( she's now in her 40s ) . I know if I was in her situation I would feel the same .Her depression is physical mental and emotional.

Ruire

Suicidal people may not actually realise they are suicidal. For them, the act they may attempt to commit would not appear to them as suicide, but rather as astep to ease mental suffering and anguish. Some suicidal people may not actually realise fully that they are actually about to end everything, not just their perceived pain and helplessness.

Our society just doesn't understand this. We automatically assume that there are reasons, when in actual fact the reasoning behind such a decision may not be reasons, or may not even exist at all. As said above, anyone contemplating suicide is almost certainly not of sound mind, I mean you'd hardly trust a suicidal person to write a will.

In general, Irish people just don't seem to deal well with mental illness. We really don't know how to deal with it properly.

Breaktown

mikemac wrote: »

You tell your neighbour you have cancer and they will be concerned for you.
You tell them you have depression and you'll be told to pull yourself together, quit your moaning and look at how others are much worse off then you.

That always used to drive me mad when I was in one of my depression phases. Being told to pull yourself together or "smile because it might never happen" does nothing to help. On the anniversary of my friends death (which was the initial catalyst for me) I never went to school because I was too depressed and couldn't handle it, so my Mum would write me a sick note. But my Dad always gave out to me and told me I wasn't sick. Depression is an illness and wish people would see it as one.

Mr Yellow

we as a nation of Irish frown / ignore /are unable to deal with those who suffer this sickness unfortunately & it disgusts me. Issues do not get resolved by blocking them out, sadly..

Causes - to some degree, i believe its a chemical imbalance - Permanent Negative outlook leads to such imbalance. I also believe that everyone suffers depression at some stage in their life, just like we all catch a cold at some stage. However the severity of it differs accordingly.

Solutions - talking helps. People stall here though, as judgements are formed & the usual, 'sure you have everything, why are you down?' bull... A campaign of significence needs introduction, & not a campaign where the person is so put off by what they see that they continue to suffer in silence

irish_bob

Ruire wrote: »

Suicidal people may not actually realise they are suicidal. For them, the act they may attempt to commit would not appear to them as suicide, but rather as astep to ease mental suffering and anguish. Some suicidal people may not actually realise fully that they are actually about to end everything, not just their perceived pain and helplessness.

Our society just doesn't understand this. We automatically assume that there are reasons, when in actual fact the reasoning behind such a decision may not be reasons, or may not even exist at all. As said above, anyone contemplating suicide is almost certainly not of sound mind, I mean you'd hardly trust a suicidal person to write a will.

In general, Irish people just don't seem to deal well with mental illness. We really don't know how to deal with it properly.

i dont believe the vast majority of people commit sucide commit suicide for no reason , i also dont belive people suffer from depression unless their is a reason , some event or someone in thier lives caused it , i also dont believe in this chemical imbalance arguement

Monkey61

Well, I have suffered from severe depression for most of my life. I have attempted suicide properly twice in the past and come very close a few other times.

For me, suicide seemed like the only thing that would take the pain away. It hurt so much everyday and all I wanted to do was make it stop. I was on medication, in therapy, I had a girlfriend and lots of people who loved me - but that wasn't enough. It was constant mental agony without any hope.

I'm alright enough at the moment; but the idea is always going to be there simmering beneath the surface. When everything is going right for me; then of course I want to be alive. But as soon as the slightest thing happens it tends to be the first thought that pops into my mind. To be honest I would rather be dead then spend any time suffering like I used to again. Selfish perhaps. I know my family and friends would be upset - but to be honest, when I am depressed, my own happiness matters more to me than that of others.Because I am aware of this, when I am feeling well, I do everything I can to make sure that I would never have the means to act impulsively. I don't keep razorblades or any medication in the house that could be overdosed on. Despite the fact that I love guns and shooting, I would never, ever have a rifle or a shotgun or anything like that within easy access because I know that I couldn't trust myself around it.

When there is absolutely no hope in life, when you can see absolutely no way in which you could ever be happy again, when fighting the darkness has battered you into submission - where else is there to go? I think the idea of suicide appeals because it can end the agony immediately and it can give you back control over your own fate. When one is suffering horribly from depression there is nothing else that can provide an instant relief. Medication can take months to kick in - you still have to go to work, deal with your life circumstances and be confronted with your torment every day of the week. Compared to that, death seems like an easy option.

God that all sounds terribly grim... but to summarise. I think once anybody has seriously considered the idea of suicide and has made their peace with it, in a way - it will always be something that seems vaguely okay in their mind. I don't know anyone who has attempted suicide just once - everyone I know that has done it, has tried a couple of times and probably will again at some point - and a few who have succeeded on one of those attempts.

A lot of people's lives are just never going to be what they want them to be and some people just aren't great at handling trauma and disappointment.

Ickle Magoo

irish_bob wrote: »

i dont believe the vast majority of people commit sucide commit suicide for no reason , i also dont belive people suffer from depression unless their is a reason , some event or someone in thier lives caused it , i also dont believe in this chemical imbalance arguement

I got awful post natal depression. I was happily married, delighted to have a wee baby and we were living a fairly worry-free life. Something in my brain just shut down until I could barely function, I knew it was happening and was powerless to stop it - no outside influence involved. Ever since, I have been convinced that there is a link between serious depression and chemicals influencing brain functionality/mood.

It makes sense to me that since biochemical and hormone changes can be responsible for giving some women menstrual mood swings, the baby blues and post-partum depression - and artificial replacements re anti-depressants can counter act depression, it's not outlandish to suggest that some kind of biochemical imbalance may be responsible for some forms of chronic medical depression.

sheep-go-baa

irish_bob wrote: »

i dont believe the vast majority of people commit sucide commit suicide for no reason , i also dont belive people suffer from depression unless their is a reason , some event or someone in thier lives caused it , i also dont believe in this chemical imbalance arguement

I think that it's this kind of attitude that makes people feel they can't tell people how low they are feeling. What if nothing in particular had happened? They have all they need physically but mentally there is still a problem. Then of course there are people who have been depressed since they can remember. I can't remember a point in my childhood that i wasn't depressed, there was never an initial trigger for me. But of course you are entitled to your opinion.

deadhead13

irish_bob wrote: »

i dont believe the vast majority of people commit sucide commit suicide for no reason , i also dont belive people suffer from depression unless their is a reason , some event or someone in thier lives caused it , i also dont believe in this chemical imbalance arguement

While traumatic events can cause depression, extensive research suggests it is by no means the only cause...

Heredity - Certain types of depression run in some families.

Difficult life events - Financial problems, breakup of relationship, death of loved one...etc

Personality - People with certain personality traits like negative thinking, pessimism, low self-esteem...etc

Medical conditions - Depression is more likely to occur with certain medical conditions. Such as heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer and hormonal disorders.

Medications - certain medications used over a long period can cause or make existing depression worse.

Substance abuse.

http://www.depression.com/causes_of_depression.html

Darlughda

It is very easy to imagine that folk who suicide do so because it is a result of a chemical imbalance in the brain. Maybe this is true in some cases, even many cases, however the despair that is felt by people can not be narrowly prescribed into the neat little compartments that say - where if they only sought help all would have been ok.

We live in a culture that assumes there is some kind of help and treatment to suit you if you just got with the programme that is there to help you. But we are not a one size fits all society.

There are a myriad of 'reasons' why people suicide. Unfortunately a blanket diagnosis of depression or being irrational due to a chemical imbalance in the brain is insufficient to really address this problem.

OP, You have pointed out quite rightly the young male suicide statistics, they are devastating. Nonetheless, please don't forget the amount of elderly people, women and all the others who do not make the most highlighted statistics.

hinault

ConnachtRanger1 wrote: »

Hi All
I would like to put out a serious question to you. Why are so many young men in this country taking their own lives? More men die by their own hands each year than in road accidents, yet it seems it is something we as a society dont want to know about. I suffer from a chronic medical problem and a few years back I considered suicide. The only thing that deterred me was the effect it would have had on my family. I would just like to hear from people (men and women) what they think some of the causes and/or solutions to this hidden problem are. I am fully aware that many young women commit suicide every year too and I would also welcome some feedback on that.

Indeed the statistic for people - especially young men - taking their own lives is truly frightening.

Like many people, I know two people who took their own lives : both young men too.

I cannot begin to understand what drives someone to take their own life.
The only conclusion which I can derive is that for the victims, suicide is the only way in which they can deal with the torment that they find themselves in.
That is the only possible explanation which I can offer.
Whatever darkness they're expriencing cannot be dispelled - except by taking their own lives.

Of course, the taking of ones own life, leaves the persons family/friends/colleagues desolate with loss.
The parents and family of the two people I know who took their own lives,
were and are devastated.
Their grief and loss is a source of torture because they don't know why their loved one decided to do, what they did.

hinault

Monkey61 wrote: »

Well, I have suffered from severe depression for most of my life. I have attempted suicide properly twice in the past and come very close a few other times.

For me, suicide seemed like the only thing that would take the pain away. It hurt so much everyday and all I wanted to do was make it stop. I was on medication, in therapy, I had a girlfriend and lots of people who loved me - but that wasn't enough. It was constant mental agony without any hope.

I'm alright enough at the moment; but the idea is always going to be there simmering beneath the surface. When everything is going right for me; then of course I want to be alive. But as soon as the slightest thing happens it tends to be the first thought that pops into my mind. To be honest I would rather be dead then spend any time suffering like I used to again. Selfish perhaps. I know my family and friends would be upset - but to be honest, when I am depressed, my own happiness matters more to me than that of others.Because I am aware of this, when I am feeling well, I do everything I can to make sure that I would never have the means to act impulsively. I don't keep razorblades or any medication in the house that could be overdosed on. Despite the fact that I love guns and shooting, I would never, ever have a rifle or a shotgun or anything like that within easy access because I know that I couldn't trust myself around it.

When there is absolutely no hope in life, when you can see absolutely no way in which you could ever be happy again, when fighting the darkness has battered you into submission - where else is there to go? I think the idea of suicide appeals because it can end the agony immediately and it can give you back control over your own fate. When one is suffering horribly from depression there is nothing else that can provide an instant relief. Medication can take months to kick in - you still have to go to work, deal with your life circumstances and be confronted with your torment every day of the week. Compared to that, death seems like an easy option.

God that all sounds terribly grim... but to summarise. I think once anybody has seriously considered the idea of suicide and has made their peace with it, in a way - it will always be something that seems vaguely okay in their mind. I don't know anyone who has attempted suicide just once - everyone I know that has done it, has tried a couple of times and probably will again at some point - and a few who have succeeded on one of those attempts.

A lot of people's lives are just never going to be what they want them to be and some people just aren't great at handling trauma and disappointment.

This is a very brave and honest post.

It is very hard for those of us who do not suffer from depression to realise just how encompassing it can be.

I wish you well and hope that you remain positive going forward.

irish_bob

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I got awful post natal depression. I was happily married, delighted to have a wee baby and we were living a fairly worry-free life. Something in my brain just shut down until I could barely function, I knew it was happening and was powerless to stop it - no outside influence involved. Ever since, I have been convinced that there is a link between serious depression and chemicals influencing brain functionality/mood.

It makes sense to me that since biochemical and hormone changes can be responsible for giving some women menstrual mood swings, the baby blues and post-partum depression - and artificial replacements re anti-depressants can counter act depression, it's not outlandish to suggest that some kind of biochemical imbalance may be responsible for some forms of chronic medical depression.

im sorry , i meant to mention post natal depression in my post , i realise that this is very common amongst women and i realise this need not have anything to do with any event in the womans life apart from having given birth of course

sorry again magoo

irish_bob

deadhead13 wrote: »

While traumatic events can cause depression, extensive research suggests it is by no means the only cause...

Heredity - Certain types of depression run in some families.

Difficult life events - Financial problems, breakup of relationship, death of loved one...etc

Personality - People with certain personality traits like negative thinking, pessimism, low self-esteem...etc

Medical conditions - Depression is more likely to occur with certain medical conditions. Such as heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer and hormonal disorders.

Medications - certain medications used over a long period can cause or make existing depression worse.

Substance abuse.

http://www.depression.com/causes_of_depression.html

i myself suffered badly from depression for a period in 1999 and it was caused by a traumatic event and a particular individual , i think its pretty obvious that people who had an unhappy childhood are more likely to suffer from depression in life , people who were the victims of a serious personal invasion are also more likely to suffer from depression , you mentioned that people with low self esteem are more likely to suffer , surely you realise that people with low self esteem do so because someone in thier life caused this , most likely one or both of thier parents , all of the points you make are in keeping with my point about events or individuals having caused the person to contact depression in the 1st place

Ickle Magoo

irish_bob wrote: »

im sorry , i meant to mention post natal depression in my post , i realise that this is very common amongst women and i realise this need not have anything to do with any event in the womans life apart from having given birth of course

sorry again magoo

No need to apologise, I was just explaining my theory.

deadhead13

irish_bob wrote: »

i myself suffered badly from depression for a period in 1999 and it was caused by a traumatic event and a particular individual , i think its pretty obvious that people who had an unhappy childhood are more likely to suffer from depression in life , people who were the victims of a serious personal invasion are also more likely to suffer from depression , you mentioned that people with low self esteem are more likely to suffer , surely you realise that people with low self esteem do so because someone in thier life caused this , most likely one or both of thier parents , all of the points you make are in keeping with my point about events or individuals having caused the person to contact depression in the 1st place

They are not really my points, if you google "causes of depression" you will find numerous different sites with a similar list. I'm not disagreeing with the above, I was just pointing out there can be other causes as well.

Ickle Magoo

irish_bob wrote: »

i myself suffered badly from depression for a period in 1999 and it was caused by a traumatic event and a particular individual , i think its pretty obvious that people who had an unhappy childhood are more likely to suffer from depression in life , people who were the victims of a serious personal invasion are also more likely to suffer from depression , you mentioned that people with low self esteem are more likely to suffer , surely you realise that people with low self esteem do so because someone in thier life caused this , most likely one or both of thier parents , all of the points you make are in keeping with my point about events or individuals having caused the person to contact depression in the 1st place

Of course, all those events have happened to people who go on to suffer from depression and they statistically increase the odds but it doesn't really explain why some people have horrendous things happen to them and yet don't suffer depression...or those that have not been exposed to any risk factors who do. I think there must be many triggers; some physical, some psychological & some neurological - and of course there are differing levels of severity of depression.