The 'Private' Sector?

Cufflink

Some preliminaries:

1] the mass employment of the Celtic Tiger had little or nothing to do with 'the private sector' (by which I mean our indiginous business people); almost all of those jobs were created by real business people in the multi-nationals.

2] being in business is not analagous to being in the French Foreign Legion, the whinging of the old sodiers in IBEC and ISME notwithstanding: it is not 'march or die', regardless of garbage business people come out with about incompetance leading to failure, 'unlike the cosseted public sector'. It does not - it leads to bankruptcy, which is a protection extended by the state, one which the state itself cannot avail of, and one which is routinely used as a trading tool by the private sector. Business representative organizations are essentially support groups for serial bankrupts. You don't go to jail if you fail in business; you still can if you default on HP payments.

3] if you fail in business, you brush your hands, declare bankruptcy and walk away from your debts. The state cannot do this. Moreover, the legal principle of corporate identity means that when Joe Bloggs ltd runs up debts of ten million, it is the company that owes the money, not Joe Bloggs. Joe might have paid himself ten million out of the company bank account before declaring bankruptcy, but that's his money (because Joe is merely an employee, you understand), not the company's and the creditors can whistle.

4] all those people in the private sector who are singing 'nobody knows the troubles I've seen' and whining about how they'd love to have the security of the public sector could have had those jobs a few years ago. They wouldn't take them because they didn't think the jobs were good enough for them. That's why our nurses are from the Phillipines and our bus drivers are from Nigeria.

If an when there is ever a recovery in this country, it will come from the public sector and the foreign multinationals. Our native private sector will merely do what they did during the boom - come along for the ride.

brenchman

my cats name is mittens.

stevoman

people please please please change the bloody record!

NikkiXxX

brenchman wrote: »

my cats name is mittens.

Brenchman you legend!

BlaasForRafa

more public sector whinging FTW!

gandalf

Oh look a single post user on spouting very union like mantra. I shall name thee ideological shill :P

NikkiXxX

I have a radio in my car!

big syke

This crap is getting so boring i cant read a paper, talk to friends, listen to the radio etc etc without hearing this shiit. So So So So boring. I think im best off walking around with my fingers in my ears and singin loud to keep my sanity

stevoman

Cufflink wrote: »

Some preliminaries:

1] the mass employment of the Celtic Tiger had little or nothing to do with 'the private sector' (by which I mean our indiginous business people); almost all of those jobs were created by real business people in the multi-nationals.

2] being in business is not analagous to being in the French Foreign Legion, the whinging of the old sodiers in IBEC and ISME notwithstanding: it is not 'march or die', regardless of garbage business people come out with about incompetance leading to failure, 'unlike the cosseted public sector'. It does not - it leads to bankruptcy, which is a protection extended by the state, one which the state itself cannot avail of, and one which is routinely used as a trading tool by the private sector. Business representative organizations are essentially support groups for serial bankrupts. You don't go to jail if you fail in business; you still can if you default on HP payments.

3] if you fail in business, you brush your hands, declare bankruptcy and walk away from your debts. The state cannot do this. Moreover, the legal principle of corporate identity means that when Joe Bloggs ltd runs up debts of ten million, it is the company that owes the money, not Joe Bloggs. Joe might have paid himself ten million out of the company bank account before declaring bankruptcy, but that's his money (because Joe is merely an employee, you understand), not the company's and the creditors can whistle.

4] all those people in the private sector who are singing 'nobody knows the troubles I've seen' and whining about how they'd love to have the security of the public sector could have had those jobs a few years ago. They wouldn't take them because they didn't think the jobs were good enough for them. That's why our nurses are from the Phillipines and our bus drivers are from Nigeria.

If an when there is ever a recovery in this country, it will come from the public sector and the foreign multinationals. Our native private sector will merely do what they did during the boom - come along for the ride.

Look, i'l level with you. im a civil servant myself and i have gotten the paycuts. Trust me, iv tried argueing my points over the internet and its pointless and the ame roundabouts points keep coming up again from both parties.

All i do know is if anyone asks what i do for a living i tell them im a civil servant. they naturally ask about the paycuts, and then i just smile and tell them its no biggy im making plenty of money anyways. It shuts people up and annoys the bedgrudgers. i get a kick out of it.

NinjaTruncs

if we don't have a private sector how do we pay for the public sector?

Baird

Which multinational company built a 90k houses in ireland in 2006?

Rujib1

big syke wrote: »

This crap is getting so boring i cant read a paper, talk to friends, listen to the radio etc etc without hearing this shiit. So So So So boring. I think im best off walking around with my fingers in my ears and singin loud to keep my sanity

You need an iPod, FFS

stevoman

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

if we don't have a private sector how do we pay for the public sector?

by using reverse vampires and saucer people. Who cares anymore!!!

lets talk about something different.

so how about that lenihans hairdo?

Zynks

Cufflink wrote: »

1] the mass employment of the Celtic Tiger had little or nothing to do with 'the private sector' (by which I mean our indiginous business people); almost all of those jobs were created by real business people in the multi-nationals.
...
If an when there is ever a recovery in this country, it will come from the public sector and the foreign multinationals. Our native private sector will merely do what they did during the boom - come along for the ride.

I mostly agree there. The issue here in my view being that we have an educational system totally driven towards creating good employees, but not necessarily good entrepreneurs. Add that to a government policy focused on job creation and very little on truly pushing for the creation of Irish enterprise and Irish wealth, and you have our reality....however, I can't possibly see how our hopes for recovery should be based on the public sector - the ps has its merits in my view, but that is not one of them.

Cufflink wrote: »

2] Business representative organizations are essentially support groups for serial bankrupts. You don't go to jail if you fail in business; you still can if you default on HP payments.

These representative bodies also have some merits. If they didn't exist, we would be even less competitive than we already are.

Cufflink wrote: »

3] if you fail in business, you brush your hands, declare bankruptcy and walk away from your debts. The state cannot do this. Moreover, the legal principle of corporate identity means that when Joe Bloggs ltd runs up debts of ten million, it is the company that owes the money, not Joe Bloggs. Joe might have paid himself ten million out of the company bank account before declaring bankruptcy, but that's his money (because Joe is merely an employee, you understand), not the company's and the creditors can whistle.

I doubt anyone goes into bankruptcy as a hobby. I would agree there was lack of vision (or even stupidity) and greed in many cases. The cases you refer to are fraudulent and a good few will hopefully be caught. Let's put some faith in our courts. Forget not that many ex-wealthy are in personal trouble also. Bernard McNamara being the first one that comes to mind.

Cufflink wrote: »

4] all those people in the private sector who are singing 'nobody knows the troubles I've seen' and whining about how they'd love to have the security of the public sector could have had those jobs a few years ago. They wouldn't take them because they didn't think the jobs were good enough for them. That's why our nurses are from the Phillipines and our bus drivers are from Nigeria.

You have a point there, but overall, there is a limit to how much tax payers who decide to remain in the private sector should be forced to put up in terms of subsidising unrealistic terms for the public service.

Overall, the bubble and illusion of wealth fooled most of us. Going back to reality hurts like hell. What we need is to avoid being fooled by the Brians latest mind game, which is making private sector believe that it is all public sector's fault, and vice-versa. Most of us are guilty AND victims at the same time.

fat__tony

How controversial. :rolleyes:

gandalf

stevoman wrote: »

so how about that lenihans hairdo?

He is definitely putting hair dye in I reckon...

NinjaTruncs

stevoman wrote: »

by using reverse vampires and saucer people. Who cares anymore!!!

lets talk about something different.

so how about that lenihans hairdo?

Agreed, nice to see it sunny outside today also.

NikkiXxX

stevoman wrote: »

by using reverse vampires and saucer people. Who cares anymore!!!

lets talk about something different.

so how about that lenihans hairdo?

Personally I think its a tupay he wears:D

frman

stevoman wrote: »

so how about that lenihans hairdo?

post of the year imo.

quad_red

stevoman wrote: »

so how about that lenihans hairdo?

He's definitely doing something new.

I'd say, along with the hair, he's hired consultants to ensure his images imbues the appropriate sense of gravitas and capability.

stevoman

gandalf wrote: »

He is definitely putting hair dye in I reckon...

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Agreed, nice to see it sunny outside today also.

NikkiXxX wrote: »

Personally I think its a tupay he wears:D

frman wrote: »

post of the year imo.

quad_red wrote: »

He's definitely doing something new.

I'd say, along with the hair, he's hired consultants to ensure his images imbues the appropriate sense of gravitas and capability.

i think such a topic deserves a poll in AH.... Im off there now!

dyl10

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

if we don't have a private sector how do we pay for the public sector?

It's called communism

gandalf

quad_red wrote: »

He's definitely doing something new.

I'd say, along with the hair, he's hired consultants to ensure his images imbues the appropriate sense of gravitas and capability.

Well they should tell him to tuck his shirt in!!!!

glaston

gandalf wrote: »

He is definitely putting hair dye in I reckon...

Lenihans hair:eek:
I dont even know what happened in the budget, I tuned in all attentive and the likes and there it was! That big mound of gruaige, glistening away at me. I half expected it to start talking or something. Its like a badger living on his head!

Bad idea going with the black dye, looks awfully obvious dont ya think?
Shoe polish job!

Rujib1

glaston wrote: »

Lenihans hair:eek:
I dont even know what happened in the budget, I tuned in all attentive and the likes and there it was! That big mound of gruaige, glistening away at me. I half expected it to start talking or something. Its like a badger living on his head!

Bad idea going with the black dye, looks awfully obvious dont ya think?
Shoe polish job!

The shine on the gruaige, is from McWilliams dog licking it :P
The general healthy aura is the cumulative effect of four whole bulbs of garlic per day since he became Finance minister. Note whole bulbs not mere mortals cloves:cool:

wilson10

Cufflink wrote: »

Some preliminaries:

1] the mass employment of the Celtic Tiger had little or nothing to do with 'the private sector' (by which I mean our indiginous business people); almost all of those jobs were created by real business people in the multi-nationals.

2] being in business is not analagous to being in the French Foreign Legion, the whinging of the old sodiers in IBEC and ISME notwithstanding: it is not 'march or die', regardless of garbage business people come out with about incompetance leading to failure, 'unlike the cosseted public sector'. It does not - it leads to bankruptcy, which is a protection extended by the state, one which the state itself cannot avail of, and one which is routinely used as a trading tool by the private sector. Business representative organizations are essentially support groups for serial bankrupts. You don't go to jail if you fail in business; you still can if you default on HP payments.

3] if you fail in business, you brush your hands, declare bankruptcy and walk away from your debts. The state cannot do this. Moreover, the legal principle of corporate identity means that when Joe Bloggs ltd runs up debts of ten million, it is the company that owes the money, not Joe Bloggs. Joe might have paid himself ten million out of the company bank account before declaring bankruptcy, but that's his money (because Joe is merely an employee, you understand), not the company's and the creditors can whistle.

4] all those people in the private sector who are singing 'nobody knows the troubles I've seen' and whining about how they'd love to have the security of the public sector could have had those jobs a few years ago. They wouldn't take them because they didn't think the jobs were good enough for them. That's why our nurses are from the Phillipines and our bus drivers are from Nigeria.

If an when there is ever a recovery in this country, it will come from the public sector and the foreign multinationals. Our native private sector will merely do what they did during the boom - come along for the ride.

Yeah right.

alastair

Cufflink wrote: »

it is not 'march or die', regardless of garbage business people come out with about incompetance leading to failure, 'unlike the cosseted public sector'. It does not - it leads to bankruptcy, which is a protection extended by the state, one which the state itself cannot avail of, and one which is routinely used as a trading tool by the private sector.

This must be welcome news for the 180,000 odd people who mistakenly went on the live register in the last year. They'd thought there was some sort of failure at play - silly billys!

frman

And so back to his hair..

does he use Pantene or Head & Shoulders ?


I think he is a Pantene guy, so sleek looking.

gandalf

frman wrote: »

And so back to his hair..

does he use Pantene or Head & Shoulders ?


I think he is a Pantene guy, so sleek looking.

Well at least he now has job options as a shampoo model when he gets turfed out at the next election....I wonder what Biffos options will be !!

frman

gandalf wrote: »

Well at least he now has job options as a shampoo model when he gets turfed out at the next election....I wonder what Biffos options will be !!

Art Model.

NikkiXxX

frman wrote: »

And so back to his hair..

does he use Pantene or Head & Shoulders ?


I think he is a Pantene guy, so sleek looking.

Defo herbal esence

glaston

frman wrote: »

And so back to his hair..

does he use Pantene or Head & Shoulders ?

Neither, Timotei all the way!!

gandalf

glaston wrote: »

Neither, Timotei all the way!!

Jaysus its Boris Johnson !!

(or yer man from the FAI)

Stark

gandalf wrote: »

Oh look a single post user on spouting very union like mantra. I shall name thee ideological shill :P

Shills didn't cause this recession! :mad:

Rujib1

well at least Biffo and Garlic, have a decent bit of size to them, and by all accounts shift a right few pints of the black stuff when they get the opportunity.
Fast forward to Ritchie Bruton's budget. He will need a hand to carry the bloomin book up the steps for the cameras in the morning, plus he will probably have to sit on Joan Burton's knee when he is delivering the speech.

And then there is Enda, with the wannabe Tarzan lockes of golden hair :pac:

Think it better to stick with what we have.

Rujib1

gandalf wrote: »

Jaysus its Boris Johnson !!

(or yer man from the FAI)

It's bloody McWilliams dog:o

granturismo

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

if we don't have a private sector how do we pay for the public sector?

Its called a socialist nirvana.

Nationalise the pharmaquticals (as some FFs pronounce it) and the 'knowledge economy' that are supposed to raise us out of this mess and Lenno is our Lenin.

We've almost nationalised the banks so why not?

NikkiXxX

gandalf wrote: »

Jaysus its Boris Johnson !!

(or yer man from the FAI)

John Delaney!