Advice Badly Needed

thegockster

Hi guys first time poster and I really do need some advice...

Is there anyone out there who could help us out I will cut to the chase I owe 290 on my 02 bill I refused to pay for the simple reason that it was a shambles and it went days even weeks without working cause of the area I was in and the broadband just went in and out of connection and I stopped my account in the shop but they still billed me but I stood my ground and have not paid them for months and the late charges just added to the bill over that period cause I felt I should not pay for something that was a shambles but now they have giving there debt onto a debt collectors agency some crowd out in tallaght I got my first letter of them this morning and they were talking about turning up to my house and threatening me with legal action I have never been in this position before so I dont know what to think at the moment, if it went to court it's my word against there's cause I stopped my account over the counter and I have no proof of any calls and that was a few months ago when I had a job when I refused to pay now I have lost my job and I used my redundancy to pay of a big loan I had and im now just living off my social welfare and I really cant afford to pay this debt if I were perfectly honest and if I went to court and lost and had to pay for there legal fee's then I will be even in more financial trouble I wld not be able to afford to pay it so im just wondering what is the best way to go about this cheers in advance its much appreciated

Arsenal1986

Maybe approach O2 and work out some kind of plan whereby you pay a tenner a week to them till debt is gone? I know its less than ideal but as you say going to be hard to prove in court

Vanbis

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

Maybe approach O2 and work out some kind of plan whereby you pay a tenner a week to them till debt is gone? I know its less than ideal but as you say going to be hard to prove in court

Its a bit late if they have passed the debt to a agency. I'd call the debt collection agency and try work something out with them. If you explain your current situation then they should be able to come to some sort of agreement.

Back to o2, if you had problems with the service and their technical department did not help rather then close the direct debt or account you had you should have to Comreg who may have solved this or got you out of a contract, its a bit late now though.

thegockster

02 have completely washed there hands of it mate its down to the debt collectors now

thegockster

I just think its so wrong tho they are to blame and then they go about doing this I was looking for legal advice to see if I cld fight this cause they dont deserve a penny as far as im concerned you know

thegockster

I was thinking of fighting this but im a bit worried if it goes pair shaped and im stuck with a big legal bill I just think its unfair

Shield

If you acknowledge the debt is yours, then you have to make contact with the debt collector and agree on a reasonable repayment plan over a period of time that suits you. If they refuse what you can afford, a court will definitely consider the fact that you tried to come to some sort of arrangement given your current circumstances.

If you do not acknowledge the debt is yours, and it is proven that it is, the debt collector will undoubtedly apply to the court to have his costs covered by you as well as the outstanding amount.

Whatever you do, don't ignore it. It won't go away, and the last thing you want is a bailiff at your door with a court order to seize stuff from your home.

thegockster

cheers mate I acknowledge the debt is mine is there any chance you can haggle them down to a lighter amount even go as far as saying "bring me to court" and when a date is set just settle out of court just before it goes that far I dont know much when it comes to legal matters but I feel its not in there best interest to go to court either so do you think I would get away with a lighter debt

Vanbis

thegockster wrote: »

cheers mate I acknowledge the debt is mine is there any chance you can haggle them down to a lighter amount even go as far as saying "bring me to court" and when a date is set just settle out of court just before it goes that far I dont know much when it comes to legal matters but I feel its not in there best interest to go to court either so do you think I would get away with a lighter debt

You missed that chance when you had problems with the service, you should have let O2 try resolve issue before you cancelled the direct debt or account. The debt collection agency will seek the full amount. This also affects your future credit rating as well if you seek a loan with a bank i think.

Shield

Debt collectors don't work that way I'm afraid. They don't care whether it goes to court or not because you're acknowledging the debt. They're not the ones with a case to answer - you are! They'll just heap on the interest and charges in the interim period while waiting for a court date, and the amount you owe will just go up and up.

If it was me, I'd just make contact with them and offer to pay off a set amount each week and that would be the end of the matter.

sparkling sea

You need to go to your local citizens advice center, they should be able to help you out with any legal issues

If they can't they will probably refer or recommend you contact MABS who maybe able to negotiate on your behalf with O2 or the debt collector.

thegockster

But that's the problem im having at the moment once I pay of what I need to pay each week then im left potless I dont drink or smoke dont do drugs so its not as if my money is going down the toilet Im really on my knees at the moment and I feel even if I made a deal with debt collectors I will still struggle to pay it feels as if everyone is kicking me while im down but I wont feel sorry for myself I would love to put an end to the debt It has never been this bad but when I look at my finances and what goes out each week then I will be lucky to pay a fiver a week

thegockster

sparkling sea wrote: »

You need to go to your local citizens advice center, they should be able to help you out with any legal issues

If they can't they will probably refer or recommend you contact MABS who maybe able to negotiate on your behalf with O2 or the debt collector.

Cheers mate Im going to contact them and see if they can help I need as much as I can get

epgc3fyqirnbsx

In any case, they wont chase you for the money. They will just blacklist you and you will never be able to deal with them again or recover your money.

(The above is bad legal advice but solid practical advice...)

thegockster

Reyansh Salty Loiterer wrote: »

In any case, they wont chase you for the money. They will just blacklist you and you will never be able to deal with them again or recover your money.

(The above is bad legal advice but solid practical advice...)

02 have washed there hands with the whole thing mate its down to the debt collectors agency now, there the one's who will chase me down for the money I was just wondering how far there willing to go can you honestly see them stop chasing me for the cash and if they started court proceedings and it goes against me then I will be stuck with legal fee's to pay off and I really cant afford the debt dont mind the legal costs

Jo King

The legal costs on a debt of that level would be very small. There is a cap on the level of costs in the District Court. You can look it up on Courts.ie

bonzodog2

Thats a really small debt to be getting stressed over. Make them a payment plan offer, personally or through MABS.

the_barfly1

Take a look at your o2 contract. If i was you id be looking for a clause that specifies that you will be liable to pay a debt collection agency (named) in the event of non payment of a bill(s).
If no such clause exists then you are under no contractual obligation to this collection agency because you have never entered into a contract with them.
If you do contact them you should ask THEM for a copy of a bill from with a breakdown of details of the debt AND evidence of you entering into a contract with them.
If they end up sending you a bill from O2 that would indicate that O2 are the debtors and NOT the agency, and as such payment should be directed to O2.
If they send out a bill with their own headed paper and are unable to prove joinder between you and the debt then they wouldnt have a leg to stand on in court. Indeed, from my experience, many collection agencies seem to stop bothering people once a bill is requested, as they cannot issue a bill on behalf of their customer because that account has been cleared. (by them)
*this post is merely an expression of personal opinion and application of logic and should not be regarded as legal advice in any way, shape, or form, as i have no qualifications in this field and am merely speaking from experience*

thegockster

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Take a look at your o2 contract. If i was you id be looking for a clause that specifies that you will be liable to pay a debt collection agency (named) in the event of non payment of a bill(s).
If no such clause exists then you are under no contractual obligation to this collection agency because you have never entered into a contract with them.
If you do contact them you should ask THEM for a copy of a bill from with a breakdown of details of the debt AND evidence of you entering into a contract with them.
If they end up sending you a bill from O2 that would indicate that O2 are the debtors and NOT the agency, and as such payment should be directed to O2.
If they send out a bill with their own headed paper and are unable to prove joinder between you and the debt then they wouldnt have a leg to stand on in court. Indeed, from my experience, many collection agencies seem to stop bothering people once a bill is requested, as they cannot issue a bill on behalf of their customer because that account has been cleared. (by them)
*this post is merely an expression of personal opinion and application of logic and should not be regarded as legal advice in any way, shape, or form, as i have no qualifications in this field and am merely speaking from experience*

Cheers Barfly alot of interesting info you have advised I will look all of that up as soon as possible hopefully there's something in the contract that will get me out of this mess

NUTLEY BOY

This is NOT legal advice as that is not allowed here.

Why is it being assumed that the OP is actually legally liable to o2 ?

What about OP's claim against o2 for breach of contract for failure to provide the service agreed ?

OP might be well advised to issue proceedings first in the Small Claims Court against o2.

As far as debt collectors go the least said about some of the pond life elements of that lot the better.............

P.S. DO NOT allow the debt collection people inside your property even for a "friendly chat". You can be friendly to them from your upstairs window. If they get heavy with threats or repeated harassment call the Gardai and do so every time it happens.

Shield

thegockster wrote: »

cheers mate I acknowledge the debt is mine

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Why is it being assumed that the OP is actually legally liable to o2 ?

Because he already admitted it to us?

McCrack

I want to say something but I think it would break forum rules so I'll put it this way..

A €290 debt will not see the inside of a Court.

thegockster

McCrack wrote: »

I want to say something but I think it would break forum rules so I'll put it this way..

A €290 debt will not see the inside of a Court.

Cheers for your advice guys my main worry with this is if I have to pay legal costs then it will be more than 290

Shield

...and the debt collectors usually add fees and charges for the smallest thing, and interest too. I'm not sure what McCrack is trying to say, but I know for fact that debts smaller than €290 have successfully been pursued through Small Claims.

McCrack

The smalls claims court doesnt cover debts. It's for consumer issues.

All I'm trying to say is that it's not worth anyones while to seek civil recovery for a debt of €290.

No solicitor will prosecute for this amount or indeed defend for this amount. It's too small.

Victor

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Take a look at your o2 contract. If i was you id be looking for a clause that specifies that you will be liable to pay a debt collection agency (named) in the event of non payment of a bill(s).
If no such clause exists then you are under no contractual obligation to this collection agency because you have never entered into a contract with them.
If you do contact them you should ask THEM for a copy of a bill from with a breakdown of details of the debt AND evidence of you entering into a contract with them.
If they end up sending you a bill from O2 that would indicate that O2 are the debtors and NOT the agency, and as such payment should be directed to O2.
If they send out a bill with their own headed paper and are unable to prove joinder between you and the debt then they wouldnt have a leg to stand on in court. Indeed, from my experience, many collection agencies seem to stop bothering people once a bill is requested, as they cannot issue a bill on behalf of their customer because that account has been cleared. (by them)
*this post is merely an expression of personal opinion and application of logic and should not be regarded as legal advice in any way, shape, or form, as i have no qualifications in this field and am merely speaking from experience*

The debt collector, as part of their contract with the principal, will have a section saying they are acting for the principal.

NUTLEY BOY

psni wrote: »

Because he already admitted it to us?

What he admits may not be that for which he is actually liable despite his belief. Ever had a client who thought that they were responsible for something when as a matter of law they were not ? Yes, I know that is usually the other way around !!

There seems, at a minimum, to be a partial failure of performance by o2. There might be an arguable case of total failure if the intermittent performance was so substantial that it constituted a de facto failure of an essential character.

This is why I wondered if the OP should not be instituting proceedings against o2 in the Small Claims Court for breach of contract.

OP be sure that the longer this goes on the messier it will become unless you do something positive about it and soon. You really should seek legal advice before you find yourself in a position where you will have to get it if o2 step up the pace.....

thegockster

I phoned the debt collectors about 2 weeks ago and just to save some time I asked them to send out the breakdown charges for what I owe so I can have a look over them before committing to anything, I have not received anything form them as of yet I have had no letters or phone calls they have gone quiet altogether but with that said it is the xmas period and I think they will prob step up the pressure in the new year but I will keep you all informed as things happen cheers for the advice and happy xmas and new year to you all

maidhc

A colleague of mine has a similar problem with O2 on a personal phone going on months. I know he hasn't paid yet, and doesn't plan on doing so anytime soon. If they go to court he will defend it, but they seem to have gone quiet on that front.

Elessar

It is highly unlikely (but of course not *impossible*) that you will see the inside of a courtroom over a bill of €290. Court costs themselves would be more than that in many cases. If you believe you did not receive the service you expected from O2 your best bet is to contact them and complain (registered letters).

If they wont discuss it, do not worry about debt collectors. They have no legal powers in this country and can only start court proceedings. They won't call to your door (if they do, and refuse to leave, they are tresspassing which is a criminal offence) nor do they have any powers to confiscate any of your possessions. They have no powers at all. This is the job of the county Sheriff ONLY. And he needs a warrant from the district court.

The usual procedure for these debt "collectors" is to send you three increasingly threatening letters in the hope you pay up through fear. Do not worry unless you actually get a court date. Your grievance is with O2 not them. See if they will reduce the bill since you didn't get the service you expected. You can then sort out a payment plan of even a few euro a week.