Another accident

AstraMonti

Got out from the office and the night was fabulous so i thought i should go from the long way home over Johnny Fox. I took the way towards Sandyford and i was cycling along the Kilmacud Road.

After the junction with Taney Rd there was a taxi blocking half the cycle lane but still more than enough room to pass through safely or so i thought. For some strange reason i was expecting something to happen so i slow down to 25 or so and by the time i was passing the taxi the co-driver door opened leaving me 0 distance to brake so i ended at the door. I didn't understand how exactly but my right arm took all the pressure of the hit. The poor girl was trying to apologize but i wasn't mad at her, i was mad at the taxi driver that the first thing he did was to come out and say it's not my fault, it's not my fault.

He was parked at the cycle lane (don't understand why, few meters before there was an empty bus stop) and as a professional driver he should have look at the mirrors before she got out and warn her. Anyway they both offered to call an ambulance but it's nothing serious, just a really swollen arm that would probably be heavily bruised tomorrow. He also offered to drive me home, but not the bicycle.. as he didn't want to put it inside (wtf!). Anyway i made the point that both of them should be really careful, and we are all lucky that this didn't end worse. They both seem to understood that.. so that might save someones head the next time.

Before anyone starts, i had two lights (Flashing and constant), i was wearing a helmet, i was listening to my ipod and i was looking straight. Bike is fine, suprisingly the mavic aksium are taxi-door proof (by saying that i understand that i am getting the risk of losing all my spokes while i am going in a dead flat super road). Fork and everything else seems fine, only my arm is in pain, nothing too serious (hopefully).

Be careful people!

Glad you're OK. Did you get his details, just in case that your arm is worse than it feels due to shock?

Captain Havoc

Hey, glad the bike you're OK. That sounds serious and potentially worse. It's a good thing your idiot warning system was on.

AstraMonti

I got his plates, it doesn't feel like that serious anyway. I was lucky, i didn't even had any gloves on me.

Captain Havoc

AstraMonti wrote: »

I got his plates, it doesn't feel like that serious anyway. I was lucky, i didn't even had any gloves on me.

But get him to pay for any damages you discover later such as clothing or otherwise.

Beasty

Sounds nasty, but I guess it could have been worse.

Glad everything seems OK, but take things easy. If that arm does not settle down quickly, get it looked at.

There could be other injuries that do not become apparent until later (I am still bothered by a sore finger and a bit of arthritis in the other hand from my accident earlier this year, but at the time I did not notice them, largely because of the other significant injuries I was suffering from)

Caroline_ie

I learnt this by experience Astra, do never trust a stopped cab. Take over from the right if you can, but do not try and squeeze between the cab and the curb, same as the bus. You did pick the most risqué option.

I am glad you are ok.

LeoD

Sorry but cycling up the inside of a stopped taxi at 25kmh is asking for trouble. What's worse are the 3 replies who's main concern is the possibility of you missing out on financial compensation. Typical of this country these days unfortunately.

DirkVoodoo

Glad you are ok Astra. Having his details would be handy and I think going to your doctor for a check up isn't a bad idea, even if you feel ok now.

I am inclined to agree about the passing on the inside comment, in the wise words of eminem "...go round the outside, round the outside", minus the trailer park girls of course.

The sad truth is that most people never seem to look in their mirrors getting out of a car, if they had it would have been hard not to see you.

ROK ON

Astra. Glad to hear you are relatively unharmed.
After 20 safe yrs commuting I had two car incidents this year. Not fun.
Keep the head up and get back on the bike.

Btw Dirk that "round theoutside" is not originally Emenim. The original was back in the 80s andwas Buffalo Bills go afoundthe outside.
Yer man from motorcity simply modified it.

The tax man

Glad to hear you're OK Astra.

Bunnyhopper

Glad you came out of it reasonably ok.

(I can't decide what irritates me most about LeoD's post: there's so much to choose from... )

kona

LeoD wrote: »

Sorry but cycling up the inside of a stopped taxi at 25kmh is asking for trouble. What's worse are the 3 replies who's main concern is the possibility of you missing out on financial compensation. Typical of this country these days unfortunately.

Whats even worse, was the taxi stopped in a cycle lane. whats even worse was that there was a appropriate area to stop a few metres ahead.

Financial compensation? why should the OP pay potentially hundreds of euro to replace gear and to get checked out, due to being the victim of a gob****e taxi driver and a airhead woman.

Im not a taxi Driver, but I do drive, when my girlfriend gets out, I know she has a tendancy to just fling the door out, so while she is getting her **** together to get out Im looking in my mirror and tell her not to open the door if I see a car or a bike.

Now a taxi should have more experience than my 3 years on the road:rolleyes:

While I do disagree with the sueing culture, the OP is entitled to be compenstated, but NOT take the piss.(eg oh sue for e5000 because my arm is sore and I cant work)

The taxi Driver is at fault here. The OP is perfectly entitled to cycle in the cycle lane:rolleyes:

AstraMonti

Actually I picked the safest option (without actually knowing it) and I ll explain why. The driver and the passenger opened the doors in the same time because from what I understood they wanted to get stuff out of the trunk. I would probably end in the drivers door with traffic in both sides. The thing is I knew something was to happen that's why I slow down a bit but I couldn't see the passenger because it was quite darkish at that spot.

Edit: now that I am thinking it I have actually no idea what would have happened if I went from outside, too many things to consider and an if is an if...

LeoD wrote: »

Sorry but cycling up the inside of a stopped taxi at 25kmh is asking for trouble. What's worse are the 3 replies who's main concern is the possibility of you missing out on financial compensation. Typical of this country these days unfortunately.

Maybe I should have given him a couple of hundred euros for the scratches on the door. Get real dude.

Captain Havoc

AstraMonti wrote: »

they wanted to get stuff out of the trunk.

It was an elephant now, not a taxi eh?

@LeoD I wasn't on about suing him for as much as possible, but last week I was knocked over and it wasn't my fault at all, 0% of the blame was mine, no discussion. I spent €180 replacing that clothing over the weekend, is that fair?

tomasrojo

I'm not being smart, but could you just have used the road? What happened to you is another reason I just use the road in 99% of cases: plenty of room to get around obstacles.

AstraMonti

tomasrojo wrote: »

I'm not being smart, but could you just have used the road? What happened to you is another reason I just use the road in 99% of cases: plenty of room to get around obstacles.

I could, but the cycling lane on that road is fine, no reason not to use it.

Turbulent Bill

Sorry to hear about the accident Astra, and glad you're alright, but I'd tend to echo LeoD's comment - 25km/h down the inside of a stopped taxi isn't a good idea. Technically you did nothing wrong, but that's cold comfort if you end up picking teeth out of a car door frame. Taxis are a law unto themselves, and whatever limited powers of observation drivers and passengers have are much reduced on these dark evenings.

I prefer passing on the outside (when I have the option) as drivers are much less likely to door you than passengers from a stopped car, and generally have mirrors adjusted so they can see better. Obviously wouldn't have helped you yesterday, but might avoid the next one.

droidus

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Sorry to hear about the accident Astra, and glad you're alright, but I'd tend to echo LeoD's comment - 25km/h down the inside of a stopped taxi isn't a good idea. Technically you did nothing wrong, but that's cold comfort if you end up picking teeth out of a car door frame. Taxis are a law unto themselves, and whatever limited powers of observation drivers and passengers have are much reduced on these dark evenings.

I prefer passing on the outside (when I have the option) as drivers are much less likely to door you than passengers from a stopped car, and generally have mirrors adjusted so they can see better. Obviously wouldn't have helped you yesterday, but might avoid the next one.

Given what you've just said, doesn't passing on the outside leave you in a possibly more vulnerable position if the driver pulls out suddenly without indicating, potentially knocking you off your bike and into the road?

I think the only approach to take is to treat each situation as it comes and be as observant as possible.

Oh - and sue the pants of them if they do hit you - how else will they learn?

penexpers

Surprised that nobody has suggested waiting behind the taxi until it became clearer what his intentions were or until he pulled off again. Cycling up the inside of a stopped taxi is just asking for trouble, regardless of who is right and who is wrong.

tomasrojo

AstraMonti wrote: »

I could, but the cycling lane on that road is fine, no reason not to use it.

Is this the off-road cycle lane after you pass the Goat? If so, I avoid that one myself. Well, I avoid all of them really, but that one is bad because you are vulnerable to left-turning traffic when you reach the junction with the lower Kilmacud Road in a way that you wouldn't be if you just stayed on the road. (They have painted a yield sign on the cycle lane at that junction, so they obviously realised it was a hazard, but did their traditional cop-out of making the cyclist yield.)

It also used to have a street lamp in the middle of it, but I think they fixed that.

tomasrojo

penexpers wrote: »

Surprised that nobody has suggested waiting behind the taxi until it became clearer what his intentions were or until he pulled off again. Cycling up the inside of a stopped taxi is just asking for trouble, regardless of who is right and who is wrong.

I tend to agree that cycling up the inside of any parked vehicle is something that should be done tentatively and slowly.

Or not at all, if you can help it.

AstraMonti

penexpers wrote: »

Surprised that nobody has suggested waiting behind the taxi until it became clearer what his intentions were or until he pulled off again. Cycling up the inside of a stopped taxi is just asking for trouble, regardless of who is right and who is wrong.

The taxi hadn't any indicators on, neither the hazard lights. It was appeared to be "parked" there for all i knew, and missing to notice the passenger i thought that he might be stopped for something.

morninwood

sorry to hear about that. glad you're seemingly OK but i guess your arm is in bits by now. could have turned out a lot worse though. get well soon.

tomasrojo

morninwood wrote: »

sorry to hear about that. glad you're seemingly OK but i guess your arm is in bits by now. could have turned out a lot worse though. get well soon.

Yes, all the best. Hopeefully all is well.

alfalad

Glad your ok man.

monument

droidus wrote: »

Given what you've just said, doesn't passing on the outside leave you in a possibly more vulnerable position if the driver pulls out suddenly without indicating, potentially knocking you off your bike and into the road?

Pass on the outside, but also pass far enough out that a opening door will not hit you.

If there are cars coming or you can get out to pass the car then as penexpers suggested, stop behind the car.

I'm surprised more cyclists don't end up in car doors. You should always avoid cycling near parked cars, and cycle about the length of a car door away from cars. Unless in heavy traffic where doing so is ok by slowing down a bit.

blorg

droidus wrote: »

Given what you've just said, doesn't passing on the outside leave you in a possibly more vulnerable position if the driver pulls out suddenly without indicating, potentially knocking you off your bike and into the road?

Not if you leave enough room, you have to go way out so you are not in the door zone.

The cycle lane starts off on-road and then goes off-road- after the bus stop would be the off-road section which I presume Astra was on. Technically illegal for the taxi to be parked there but you have to be careful and expect the worst I guess.

droidus

Sorry if I was unclear - I was referring to a situation where the driver pulls out suddenly into the road as you go round the outside - not to the drivers-side door opening.

Obviously the further out you are the better, but you'd need to be nearly a lane across to avoid the typical taxi driver maneuvere.

tomasrojo

blorg wrote: »

Not if you leave enough room, you have to go way out so you are not in the door zone.

The cycle lane starts off on-road and then goes off-road- after the bus stop would be the off-road section which I presume Astra was on. Technically illegal for the taxi to be parked there but you have to be careful and expect the worst I guess.

Incidentally, you can avoid using that lane (though I realise you actually have nothing against the lane, AstraMonti) with a clear legal conscience. Last time I checked it didn't have the correct signage, so it isn't a "cycle track", and therefore isn't covered by the mandatory-use regulation of 1998.

blorg

droidus wrote: »

Sorry if I was unclear - I was referring to a situation where the driver pulls out suddenly into the road as you go round the outside - not to the drivers-side door opening.

Obviously the further out you are the better, but you'd need to be nearly a lane across to avoid the typical taxi driver maneuvere.

I got that, if you are far enough out though you will generally be OK. Strong lights help too. Basically we are talking about overtaking a parked vehicle partially in the road which is a pretty basic manoeuvre.

droidus

blorg wrote: »

I got that, if you are far enough out though you will generally be OK. Strong lights help too. Basically we are talking about overtaking a parked vehicle partially in the road which is a pretty basic manoeuvre.

Yeah... One of my many mishaps involved going over the bonnet of a taxi when he pulled out across two lanes without looking, so I'm probably a bit over-wary of taxis 'parked' at the side of the road...:o

nitrogen

AstraMonti wrote: »

The driver and the passenger opened the doors in the same time because from what I understood they wanted to get stuff out of the trunk. I would probably end in the drivers door with traffic in both sides. The thing is I knew something was to happen that's why I slow down a bit but I couldn't see the passenger because it was quite darkish at that spot.

According to the law you probably are not in the wrong, but I think it's partially your fault. I don't care where someone is parked, never go up the inside. Look behind, signal and take the lane. Think of yourself as a motorbike and pass appropriately. And if you are passing on the outside you anticipate for opening doors by leaving space.

Also 25 kph is not slow to be going up the inside.

Saying all that, sorry to hear about your accident, Astra.

AstraMonti

Here is the spot exactly, the road is not quite the wide it looks to be.

With blue the cycle lane and the red was the taxi.



P.S. I understand that i should have paid more attention, no arguing on that.

tomasrojo

That's where I thought it was. I'd have just taken the road when I saw the lane being partly obstructed by the car and, if I liked using the cycle lane, rejoined it at the far side of the next junction.

As nitrogen says, better to give a wide berth when passing. Also, I've never had any harrassment from anyone using the road on that stretch, and I use it relatively frequently.

(I hope I'm not labouring the point now.)

Turbulent Bill

droidus wrote: »

Given what you've just said, doesn't passing on the outside leave you in a possibly more vulnerable position if the driver pulls out suddenly without indicating, potentially knocking you off your bike and into the road?

I think the only approach to take is to treat each situation as it comes and be as observant as possible.

Oh - and sue the pants of them if they do hit you - how else will they learn?

I slightly misread Astra's original post (thought the taxi was stuck in a row of traffic, rather than parked by the roadside), but I think the advice stands. If the car is parked you can safely overtake on the outside, leaving enough room to prevent dooring as Blorg said. A burst of acceleration makes this easier.

If you're filtering through slow/stopped traffic and aren't near a junction then going outside is generally safer, both to prevent passenger-side dooring and being trapped between car and kerb.

Horses for courses anyway, just keep your eyes open .

blorg

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I slightly misread Astra's original post (thought the taxi was stuck in a row of traffic, rather than parked by the roadside), but I think the advice stands. If the car is parked you can safely overtake on the outside, leaving enough room to prevent dooring as Blorg said.

Doing this is illegal though; if only TimAllen wasn't banned he would be jumping up and down about your advocating illegal behaviour. Probably is (hi Tim if you are reading.)

tomasrojo

blorg wrote: »

Doing this is illegal though; if only TimAllen wasn't banned he would be jumping up and down about your advocating illegal behaviour. Probably is (hi Tim if you are reading.)

Overtaking on the outside is illegal?
Using the road because that cycle lane is available? I'm pretty sure that that lane doesn't have the standard sign that makes it a cycle track and therefore mandatory.

I think it has this one, or some variation on this one:


and not this one:



(Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, blorg.)

blorg

I was referring to not using the cycle lane.

Turbulent Bill

blorg wrote: »

Doing this is illegal though; if only TimAllen wasn't banned he would be jumping up and down about your advocating illegal behaviour. Probably is (hi Tim if you are reading.)

Sorry Blorg, what I meant to say was you should stay in the cycle lane until the obstructing vehicle has moved, as it's illegal to use the road.

Actually, I remember the day when I tried to cycle through Ranelagh and came across a blocked cycle lane. Couldn't use the path to the left or walk the bike (as I had road shoes on), couldn't use the road or reverse as both are illegal. Ended up standing in the same spot all night until the obstructing car drove off and I could go home. Only for the kindness of strangers giving me food parcels I could have died...

tomasrojo

Am I not right in saying that it doesn't have the mandatory signage though and therefore is not mandatory, strictly speaking?

(Conicidentally being discussed here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63416114#post63416114)

I think it has something like this sign:

WicklowRacer

tomasrojo wrote: »

That's where I thought it was. I'd have just taken the road when I saw the lane being partly obstructed by the car and, if I liked using the cycle lane, rejoined it at the far side of the next junction.

As nitrogen says, better to give a wide berth when passing. Also, I've never had any harrassment from anyone using the road on that stretch, and I use it relatively frequently.

(I hope I'm not labouring the point now.)

I ride this junction every day. Taking the road at this point is difficult because its quite narrow until the next junction and theres always lots of traffic feeding up from the lights. Its actually one of the few bits of off road cycle lane that I do ride because of the pressure of traffic.

tomasrojo

I guess I'm always on the road off-peak.

Also, I always turn left down Lower Kilmacud Road, so if I did use it I'd only be on it for about twenty seconds.

I also find the angle you have to look back over your should at the junction with Lower Kilmainham Road a bit extreme. I suppose that conversely I have to glance down my left side for cyclists on that cycle lane when I go left down Lower Kilmacud Road.

nitrogen

Astra, I might have been a little biased in my previous post - life isn't always as black and white. I have zero experience cycling in Dublin, as I live in London which is more or less an infinite collection of villages, towns and residential areas all interconnected with lower speed limits, as opposed to ring roads and main roads. Despite it being congested, a bicycle can move at a similar average speed to other vehicles. I assume cars are travelling faster and taking the lane is rarer, and not as safe in Dublin. If I'm in a bus lane and come across a stopping bus with the need to change lanes, often enough I merge into the main lane without the need for the car behind to even brake. So I was looking at your situation from a slightly different perspective.

Anyway this thread has at least made us think more about situations that we could easily find ourselves in.

blorg

WicklowRacer wrote: »

I ride this junction every day. Taking the road at this point is difficult because its quite narrow until the next junction and theres always lots of traffic feeding up from the lights. Its actually one of the few bits of off road cycle lane that I do ride because of the pressure of traffic.

It's on my commute too and I would tend to agree with this, I always use the cycle lane there also.

tomasrojo

Fair enough. I only cycle it off-peak.

@nitrogen, that's pretty much how I cycle in Dublin. South Dublin does have a lot of deliberately narrow roads with off-road cycle lanes now though, which can make proper vehicular cycling tricky, due to all the close passes if you use the road. The junctions are messy too; lots of yield signs for cyclists.

I still use the road though; perhaps if I was using some of these South Dubin roads at peak time I would use the cycle lanes.

The roads should never have been designed this way though.