Hello! I'm new.

CbrownAustralia

I just thought I'd better introduce myself. I'm 28, female and Australian and I mostly showjump. I've got a corking half Irish Draught mare and I'm interested to know more about ID's, so I thought this might be the place to start.

byhookorbycrook

welcome along, what breeding is your mare?

convert

Welcome to the forum, Cbrown!

Have you tried the IDH website: http://www.irishdraught.ie/

It might have some info that you may find useful, or at least provide you with contact details for someone who may be able to help you.

finbarrk

CbrownAustralia wrote: »

I just thought I'd better introduce myself. I'm 28, female and Australian and I mostly showjump. I've got a corking half Irish Draught mare and I'm interested to know more about ID's, so I thought this might be the place to start.

I suppose if we could meet you for a beer we could have a great discussion about horses in general!

Theponylady

There's a irish draught list on Yahoo as well. There can be a lot of arguing on it:( But it's also a good source of info and you can meet some interesting people on it.

wiggy123

what breeding ur mare...IHB..hav mare books..breeding.etc

CbrownAustralia

Hi Everyone!

Thanks for the welcome. I'll gratefully except the cyberbeer.

My mare is by a local (Aussie) RID stallion called Conquerer King out of a thoroughbred mare. He's eventing and doing dressage pretty successfully around here. There are really hardly any RID horses in Australia (seriously about ten) though so I thought, one day I might look at importing some semen.

I like the look of 'Ard Grampa.

Do you know much about him?

koHd

I know a guy that knows about ID's. PM for details. We may be being watched. I am also available for beers. *runs before he gets banned from another forum*

ADDON

I was lucky enough to see Baltydaniel Breeze before he was sold to Australia. If I was in Australia, I'd be keen to use him.

finbarrk

This is my favourite draught horse. Grange Bouncer. He has produced some serious hunting horses and he was a successfull showjumper himself.


http://www.irishdraught.ie/index.php/General/Grange-Bouncer-RID-848.html

Here is Ard Grandpa. he looks like he has plenty of bone anyway.

http://www.irishdraught.ie/index.php/General/Ard-Grandpa-RID-807.html

CbrownAustralia

ADDON wrote: »

I was lucky enough to see Baltydaniel Breeze before he was sold to Australia. If I was in Australia, I'd be keen to use him.

Thanks for the info about Baltydaniel Breeze he looks nice and has a better shoulder than my mare. I'd be interested to see how he jumps. I wish he were taller though, I'd love to get something that would potentially add some height to the foal since the mare's only 15.2hh.

CbrownAustralia

koHd wrote: »

I know a guy that knows about ID's. PM for details. We may be being watched. I am also available for beers. *runs before he gets banned from another forum*

**Cbrown wraps head in tinfoil to deter 'watchers'**

ADDON

I'm coming from the "purist" Irish Draught perspective. Look at the breed standard and you will see that BB (and also your mare) is correct in height. No disrespect to owners of the newer bred horses, but too many of the existing herd of IDs are long legged and sometimes even long backed. People have been breeding for height while the traditional type ID or ID/TB has become less prevalent. We need to be careful that we do not end up with a long limbed animal which has soundness issues.

The ID (with a few exceptions) will not be a true showjumper because they have neither the scope nor speed. However they have other qualities which make them an attractive horse for the majority of riders, who want an animal which is well built, short coupled, with good short cannon bones and with a pleasant disposition which make the ID suited to a multiple of disciplines.

Sorry if this post is a bit pedantic....

wiggy123

i'd agree..the true draught mare was also only 15.2hh
nowadays there--over 17hh, to leggy-with no bone!
so not gd for anything,in my opinion!

we breed draughts--have mares 16hh's...(3)
but we do hav 2 mares that are hitting the 17hh mark, they still have plenty of bone, but are rearing huge foals...
i do think that stallions mayb hav gotten to big-height wise! most of them now are 17hh...

shanagarry

I wonder how much of the height increase is down to improved nutrition and grazing? The same thing is coming through in connemaras...

wiggy123

true...prob has some input into it---better management!
but conformation has dissapproved

ADDON

I don't know much about connemara breeding but I recall a man on a recent TV programme lamenting the demise of the true-to-type hardy connemara who was a multipurpose worker on small farms. He said the ruination of the breed was the preference for breding "pretty ponies" for showing. The pretty pony, having won a few shows was being held as a typical specimen of the breed, whilst the true pony was still working away and not being shown. This is akin to the ID dilemma.

Most judges or enthusiasts will tell you they prefer an animal which conforms to the breed standard, yet they will still award ribbons and praise on IDs that, in my opinion, are almost as big as a bus!!!!

Here's a bit of a proposal to reduce the size of the breed, while keeping the foreign breds out of the equation. Cross a select number of ID mares with traditional connemaras (excluding the sweet itch suspects) and the resulting female offspring can be crossed with ID stallions. As a 10 year plan, the horse world may benefit from such an experiment and the breed may be stopped from eventually having nothing but big thugs, good at little except looking impressive.

Any views? :eek:

shanagarry

That's true about the Connemara - most of the ponies that are around now are a lot lighter and taller than the 'old type'. We have one of the old type connemaras at home - she's rising 21 now and was one of the last foals of her sire who lived until he was 35, so a very old line. She's 13.2hh, stocky and wide backed. She's a dinger of a pony and still acts like she's about 5, but she would never win any prizes in the ring as she's not considered true to type any more.

Interesting idea about the ID x Connemara. It could work... Are there enough people keen to preserve the RID to make it a success though? Incidentally, we have a 2 year old who is 1/2 Connemara, 1/4 TB and 1/4 ID and we have high hopes for her, she's looking great.

CbrownAustralia

ADDON wrote: »

I'm coming from the "purist" Irish Draught perspective. Look at the breed standard and you will see that BB (and also your mare) is correct in height. No disrespect to owners of the newer bred horses, but too many of the existing herd of IDs are long legged and sometimes even long backed. People have been breeding for height while the traditional type ID or ID/TB has become less prevalent. We need to be careful that we do not end up with a long limbed animal which has soundness issues.

The ID (with a few exceptions) will not be a true showjumper because they have neither the scope nor speed. However they have other qualities which make them an attractive horse for the majority of riders, who want an animal which is well built, short coupled, with good short cannon bones and with a pleasant disposition which make the ID suited to a multiple of disciplines.

Sorry if this post is a bit pedantic....

So do you think by crossing my RID/TB mare with a RID stallion the foal would have less jumping ability than it's mother, because ID's aren't known for being quick or scopey?

This is interesting to me, but I'm a bit confused as both my mare (pictured below after about 3 months jumping) and her 1/2 sister (same sire, thoroughbred dam) have jumping talent and the common denominator is their RID sire.

I like the idea of breeding her to an Irish Draught one day, as there are so few around, and she has a lot of good points, but one of those good points is her jump and I'd hate to decrease her chances of passing that along by choosing the wrong stallion.

shanagarry

What Addon's post said is that they will not be a true showjumper due to lacking scope and speed, it doesn't say they can't jump! They very often are decent jumpers (just look at the bloodlines of some top show jumpers over the years), but that alone doesn't make a showjumper, you need other attributes too. There aren't many RIDs that have been successful showjumpers in their own right, but they have sired many. Crossing with TBs has been successful, giving them some pep, and also lightening them a bit, as they can be a bit heavy on their feet.

The ISH (Irish Sport Horse, typically an ID/TB) cross seems to be fighting a losing battle in the show jumping world, with a lot of our top riders riding warmbloods now, which is a shame. However, they're more than capable of doing well in National level competitions. They are much more suited to eventing, with many of the top event horses in the world having ID bloodlines, with stamina plus bravery and sure footedness xcountry being attributes they are known for.

Personally, I jump a bit and I wouldn't go for more than 1/2 ID. Maybe you could look at using another 1/2 ID sire? Or, if you're really keen to go the RID route, look for one with showjumping progeny? The studbook lists all the stallions progeny who have competed in Ireland. Your mare seems reasonable light boned, so she might not lose too much with a full RID if you chose carefully.

ADDON

Shanagarry made my point better than I did, I'm afraid :eek:

If you cross your 1/2 bred with a full ID, you end up with a 3/4 ID, which is hardly where I'd start if I wanted a true showjumper. I'd actually prefer to cross the 1/2 bred with a connemara (as a perverse experiment perhaps, but then again, look at Cruising ). If you want to retain or enhance showjumping poential, I'd go for another TB or a Irish Sport Horse cross. (As a personal prejudice, I'd never use a warmblood. But that's just me).

IDs can jump, but there are few top class jumpers who are 3/4 or full ID. Horses like Classic Vision are the exception to the rule, but what SJs has he produced???

Clover Hill was renowned for producing top class SJ horses, but his ID credentials are somewhat suspect if you examine his pedigree.

I suppose you need to have a good, hard think about what you want the end product to do. If you want a serious SJ competition prospect, I would suggest go for a 1/2 bred ID/TB stallion or a TB with SJ credentials. If you want a horse with all the best of ID qualities (there's more to life than jumping coloured poles, after all), go for a good ID.

doctor evil

Show jumping at the top is a different game now as the course are now a lot more technical.

The Army Equatation School hasn't been cut in the budget!